Tuesday, August 19, 2014

The Environment Excuse

“I am always in awe of people who devote their lives to a good cause and are brave enough to take a stance, though it may be controversial in their time.”
                                                                -Rebecca Pidgeon

"False friends are like our shadow... keeping close to us while we walk in the sunshine, 
but leaving us the instant we cross into the shade.”
                                                     -Christian Nestell Bovee

Hello old friends. I'm back with another question for the day! 

Imagine there was a cause you felt very strongly about, and you decided that you wanted to make a difference. What do you suppose would be the best way, to go about doing so?

Well-- one way might be to find a group of like-minded responsible people, who also share a passion for the cause. Then you could work together to develop an action plan to raise awareness and/or funds, which might initiate real change that could potentially further the cause you all hold dear.  (By the way, this is not that hard or expensive-- check out the ice bucket dumping going on all over the media…)


Another way to go about it, would be to rally around one of the most notorious and feared criminals of the last half-century. You could run a website, and put his face out there front and center. You could showcase his beliefs and quote his ramblings... which most average people couldn’t understand with the help of a dictionary and hippy interpreter.
You know, I hate to use this cliché - but apparently, there really is more than one way to skin a cat. There are some people who are trying to make an argument, that the latter is the best way to go... and I have given them, in my own humble opinion, a fair shot to make their case…
However, after reading and listening to this argument for the last few years-- I'm calling B.S.!!

Charlie’s supporters must know, that as soon as 90% of the population sees his face or hears his name, they are no longer listening to the message, or taking it seriously. For that very reason, Charlie's participation actually hurts more than it helps. I think they know that. I think they care not.

Of course, it would be easy for my ATWA(R) brothers to prove me wrong. Just give me the list-- the list of specific, tangible things which any of them have done to help the environment. The parks or roads they have helped to clean. The list of walks or rallies they have held. The list of promotional packages they have emailed out. The number of programs they have tried to develop or sponsor, with the funds they raise by doing???

Have they planted a single tree?

It's interesting to note (on the ATWA site), that a link for planting trees, is listed after detailed directions for donating money and writing letters to help Charlie. So at the very least, one might assume, that the Trees they hold so dear, are ranked third to Charlie’s legal fund and parole chances. I mean after all... these trees are supposed to be the foremost reason they're involved with Manson in the first place... right????
Sorry Charlie- I'm just not buying it.

I don’t see an organized group or movement. I see a few disturbed people making excuses to get closer to a very bad guy. And I hope with all of my soul, that I am wrong. Somebody please tell me, I am wrong. Please tell me, that these people are not simply using this very worthwhile cause as a “front”, to get closer to (and be part of) the Evil aura associated with Manson... and the horrible things he is associated with.

Because if I am right…… then that is scarier than Manson himself. An 80 year old man locked-up for the rest of his life, is one thing.  Now, a group of young Charlie “wannabees” walking among us?  Well, just think about that.

Remember: Charlie didn't like to get his own hands dirty. He had others plant the trees...
You’re Favorite Saint!


MrPoirot said...

There are people who have a desire to metaphorically spit in everyone's face.

beauders said...

I think falling in love with Charlie Manson is one of the best ways to rebel from a strict Christian upbringing.

MrPoirot said...


Off topic
Murder and horse ranches.
This is a murder just east of LA where a young lady named Erin has a fling at a horse ranch with a mutual friend's husband. Everybody involved is married.
Erin id oddly "pleased" at being pregnant with a child not her hubby's. She ends up murdered by her baby's father so I'm guessing he wasn't "pleased".
Erin's body was hidden in an old mine shaft. It's a typical horse ranch story...........eh..er

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Saint said:
"Charlie’s supporters must know, that as soon as 90% of the population sees his face or hears his name, they are no longer listening to the message, or taking it seriously."

It's hard to argue with that logic.

The concept of using Charles Manson as a "spokesperson" for any cause, is borderline laughable.

What legitimate outfit would utilize Charles Manson as their mouthpiece? LMAO!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Do you feel blame? Are you mad? Uh, do you feel like wolf kabob Roth vantage?

sunset77 said...

Several off topic comments:

@Mr.Poirot, I've heard about that "mineshaft" murder, but I haven't read about it, at least not yet. I've been following the beheading journalist James Foley, the video is posted on LiveLeak, the Islamic extremists apparently are holding another journalist they are threatening to kill.

Also, I read a Wikpedia article that says in part:

"On August 8, 1969, Brunner and another Family member, Sandra Good, were arrested in San Fernando, California at a Sears store for purchasing items with a stolen credit card. Brunner had signed for her purchases with the alias "Mary Vitasek" and the two women fled the store when a cashier became suspicious. After being followed by the store manager, the police caught up with the two and found them in possession of numerous stolen credit cards and fake identification cards. They were charged with violating Section 459 and 484e of the California Penal Code and booked into the Sybil Brand Institute Reception Center later that evening."

I don't know what "items" they were trying to purchase or what made the cashier "suspicious". Sears used to sell firearms without background checks or a waiting period. I'm guessing if Good and Brunner walked up to the counter and plopped down a pistol and/or a shotgun and some ammo, and handed the clerk a stolen credit card, that would make him/her suspicious.

The "murdermobile" rolled out of Spahn a few hours later equipped with a pistol, bolt cutters, and a length of rope. Sears sold a number of items that could have been used as further "equipment". Good and Brunner may have been trying to purchase items without knowing what there ultimate purpose was.

Finally, if anyone likes to listen to music, there is a website called "Grooveshark" where you can make playlists of songs and listen to them anytime. I have a few small playlists, you can listen to them here-->Sunset Radio. to try it out.

Unknown said...

Yep, I have to agree with you- ridiculous! I have been reading a lot of Ann Rule's "true crime" books lately, since discovering that her website is updated with all of her books now in ebook format! http://www.planetannrule.com/. It is amazing to me to get into the minds of these murderers. In her book "The Stranger Beside Me" I really thought she did a great job of getting inside the mind of Ted Bundy who was charming yet an insatiable cold-hearted killer. Manson- not so charming, just evil!
They are just plain crazy! Nothing glamorous about them, so I can't understand why anyone would want to follow them. Especially Charlie Manson!

Ajerseydevil said...

LSB haven't been on here in a long time do to serious illness think last time I was on you were retiring from the blog I for one am glad to see you back what I've always liked about this blog is the chance to have a live conversation or debate unlike most other blogs just hoping waiting for a response to your comment

Ajerseydevil said...

May I suggest Charlie's minions at ATWA start with a cleanup of the former Spahn's ranch property one only has to look on YOUTUBE Michaels back porch tapes or some of Stoner VanHoutens posting to see the rusting remains from all the car thefts Charlie the Eviaramentalist is responsible for

Patty is Dead said...

Saint, do you remember AC? She has a long list of things that ATWA supporters actually have accomplished towards their environmental goals. Patty agrees with you that Manson turns most people off but to say Stimson et all have done nothing for the environment is quite simply false. Patty is Facebook friends with AC, maybe she can get her to check in. Peace.

Patty is Dead said...

From AC to Patty in April 201So, what can be done about it? Everyone is doing a different job, raising awareness on the Internet, protesting politically (hopefully peacefully becuz as you know, Lynette's and Gypsy's protests didn't go so well), doing actual projexts, like George Waters going out in his kayak and cleaning up the Husatonic River. People are planting gardens and buying alternative products and exploring sustainable energy. Trying to let others know what can be done... stop using chemicals that harm the air and water, stop using petrol, instead use things that are biodegradable and safe. Give up things like toilet paper, because it's using a tree to wipe your butt, instead of letting the tree produce the oxygen we need to breathe. We don't have to go back to the sears catalogue or corn cobs, TP can be manufactured from things like kudzu, sumac, corn leaves. If you read my page, I re-post items every day that others are doing to help sustain our planet. Camposting toilets, cars that run on electric power, water purification systems, organic plastics, etc. It's very grass-roots, individuals doing their part, which makes up a sum of difference.

Personally I have a small farm, we garden without pesticides or chemical fertilizers, we burn dead wood and garbage for heat in a furnace that consumes 50% or greater of the wood smoke fumes, we try to use products that are earth-friendly. I am a vegetarian, although we have chickens for eggs, and occasionally goats for milk and chz. We only put one small bag of garbage in the trash each month, we haul a large truckload of recyclables to the center to save gas every six months. Fixing to buy a hybrid car. We are saving money for a wind turbine and solar panels. Some of our friends live totally off the grid. Others can only do one thing, like a container garden, or recycling, but that is better than doing nothing.

I also bug the heck out of congresspeople, state reps, etc. to let them know how they can help. For instance, Fred Upton is our local state congressman, from SW MI, in Washington. He is also head of the EPA and wants to dismantle it... he has the terrible position of trying to bring more jobs to MI, to fix the economy, to try to balance that with our state's tourism industry and natural well being. Mr. Upton is convinced that nuclear power is sensable, and is campaigning to bury the spent core rods, plutoneum generators, in a Native American sacred site in Utah. He thinks they'll be out of the way, there. How are they gonna transport that crap, from MI to UT? What if a terror organization gets hold of it? What about the Native population who lives near the dumping ground, don't they matter? He's not thought this thru. We here in MI have trained workers sitting idle, people who used to work in the auto industry. We could be producing solar, wind, biodiesel, etc. with our empty car factories. Jobs galore. We would be prosperous again, and it would improve the environment. Sorry about the political rant. Not everyone in ATWA is political, many people feel that all politicians lie, are out to line their own pocketbooks (cough Kwami Kilpatrick cough) but I think they're just people, and can be shown what's right, persuaded to do what's right. Mr. Upton is a decent person, trying to do what's right for everyone. He's not seeing the greater picture, but over time, I'm convinced that he.will."

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hello Ashley!
Welcome to the blog!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hello William!
It's good to see you again!
I'm glad you're feeling better!

You have a good memory my friend.
You're correct, this blog hosted "live discussions" regularly... and yes, it was a whole lot of fun.
I kinda miss those days myself.

Unfortunately, I'm not around quite as much these days.
I guess you could say that I'm "semi-retired" from the TLB saga.

Somewhere along the line, "life happened" and I had to back-off a little bit.

We're still here though, and when big TLB news breaks, we still have a lot of fun with the subject matter.

Once again, it's great to see you... and don't be a stranger.

Peace Brother!


LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...


LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thanks Patty.

MrPoirot said...

Last week 130 environmental groups signed a petition for the abolishment of capitalism.
The communists are congregating in environmental groups. They're not about the "earth". They're about communism.

Ajerseydevil said...

Thanks for the kind words Lynyrd

Ajerseydevil said...

Beauders if you're out there what ever happened to the rumored 1600 page book
You've been mentioning for several years

Patty is Dead said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...


leary7 said...

Sunset, ya gotta check out Roberto y Gabriella's version of Stairway to Heaven on youtube to see if it has a place on your playlist.
Funny, I have never given ATWA two thoughts. Charlie may indeed be genuine in his "green" concerns, but that does not obfuscate the fact that 'Manson' and 'environmentalist' reads like an oxymoron.

Matt said...

Well ST you were right about Star and you were right about AC. I can't take that away from you.

katie8753 said...

BOBBY! Hi Five! On the Back Side!! LOL. Right on Brother!

You guys all have great input on this subject!

I will say a few things.

Manson doesn't care about the environment, he never did and never will. It's just a tool he uses to entice chicks, one thing he seems to be good at, for some reason. In fact, the ONLY thing he seems to be good at. LOL.

Stimson may be a very caring environmentalist, I'm not sure. I don't really know anything about him.

As far as AC Fisher Aldag goes, in her own words, she hooked up with Manson for the same reason Star did: environment. Which was not even a factor.

I'm not gonna go off on AC. I think she personally has done quite a few things for the environment that she feels are good, and maybe they are good. How she wipes her butt is her bidness.

The only thing I'll say about AC that I really hate is that she condemns Christians, and to THAT I take offense.

I don't make fun of her religion and she shouldn't make fun of other people's religion.

That's my 2 cents....

katie8753 said...

Bobby, you silver-tongued skal-a-wag. LOL.

I'll tell you what. If neither of us is hooked up in 50 years, we'll get hitched. HA HA.

Patty is Dead said...

Patty did invite AC to speak for herself but apparently her device doesn't work very well on your blog or "the other blog" so she's not able to. Patty hopes she has not misrepresented her friend. Peace.

Cuntry Trash said...

Don't blame Charlie for misrepresentation of ATWA, though. ATWA now is nothing close to the vision Charlie had or has.

There's a lot of people who hold the ATWA tag and do a lot environmentally.

Also, don't blame the mess at Spahn and Barkers on Charlie and his people. We seem to forget that the trash heaps at both places were there LONG before the family and the family only added to them.

They get blamed for the trash at Barkers, which had been accumulating since the first prospectors moved up there. We also forget that Spahn's hosted many hippies, ranch hands, actors, and movie productions adding to the trash piles.

Not all of the cars at Spahn's is from the Family. After the fires, everything was dozed into a pile and eventually buried.

No doubt ATWA would be a lot better without Manson's name, but it also needs to be ran like an environmental non-profit and not a "Manson awareness" and "Manson memorabilia store." No way in hell anyone will take it seriously when you can go to the site and buy Manson memorabilia!

The true people who believed and felt ATWA did not need to broadcast it. Now ATWA is a bunch of idiots on Facebook using ATWA in their names and starting hate campaigns against people they dislike and sharing links all day and doing not a fucking thing!

beauders said...

I'm trying to find a way to get it published in book form for less than $500.00. Any recommendations?

Unknown said...

I'm sure theres at least a few People who are sincere in the ATWA Group but They hitched their Wagon to the wrong Horse.
Charlie Manson will never be taken seriously as some kind of environmental Leader and as long as Hes the figurehead of this Group They will achieve nothing.

sunset77 said...

Off topic comment,

I ran across a blog with a number of pix of Sharon Tate and her family.

Some of the blog is in the English language, but I think I recognize much of it as Polish. I don't know how "rare" the pix are, I'm not an expert on the victims pix in this case, however, there are many I've never seen.

If anyone is interested, the link is-->HERE.

On the right side of the blog there is an archive of posts that have more pix.

@Leary, I'll check out the vid on YouTube, however, Grooveshark often doesn't have nearly as much music and versions as YouTube.

katie8753 said...

Hey Cuntry, Charlie and his minions stole LOTS of vehicles that sat on Spahn's Ranch that didn't run, the they had to rebuild them.

That's why there's oil, transmission and battery fluid on the ground.

AND that accounts for a lot of rusted out vehicles on Spahn's Ranch.

katie8753 said...

Sunset, thanks! There are some pics of Sharon I haven't seen.

Can you find a link to the video La Cage aux Folles? In the French version please!

katie8753 said...

Patty, don't worry about AC. She can speak for herself.

Beauders, I watched a movie the other night about getting a book published for nothing. I wish I could think of it....

katie8753 said...

Charlie never had a vision for ATWA. Not then, and not now.

Unknown said...

I don't know how to put the Link here but if You got to the Blog Index on the right hand side of the Page click on ATWA and check the second post down You'll find a Video I posted that says all that needs to be said about the Creators of ATWA.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Matt's video:


LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Matt said:
"I'm sure there's at least a few People who are sincere in the ATWA Group but They hitched their Wagon to the wrong Horse."

That pretty much, sums it up.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Matt said:
"Charlie Manson will never be taken seriously as some kind of environmental Leader and as long as Hes the figurehead of this Group They will achieve nothing."

Again... that pretty much sums it up.

Here's the thing folks:
Charles Manson is not the complete idiot, that he portrays for the media.
He's actually pretty savvy.
I get that.

He's also very interesting and entertaining at times.
I get that too.

Some folks might even argue, that he's "innocent".


Even if we assume for a moment, that Charles Manson IS innocent... (that he was completely "railroaded", etc, etc, etc., and all that stuff)... he's STILL a ridiculous person to choose as "figurehead" for any legitimate campaign.

Why, you ask???

Because quite simply... 98% of the general public, will RECOIL at the name, image or voice of Charles Manson.

For that very reason alone... Manson is definitely "the wrong horse to hitch your wagon to", if you want to accomplish any worthwhile goal in mainstream society.

Saint and Matt are dead-on, with that point.

sunset77 said...


I'm not familiar with "La Cage aux Folles" nor any of it's incarnations, sequels or productions and I don't speak French.

Apparently, La Cage aux Folles roughly translates as "birds of a feather". Wikipedia says La Cage aux Folles began as a play in 1973. "The original French production premièred at the Théâtre du Palais-Royal on 1 February 1973 and ran for almost 1,800 performances. The principal roles were played by Jean Poiret and Michel Serrault."

I ran across a brief film clip of Poiret and Serrault in French, it can be seen-->HERE.

La Cage aux Folles was made into a film in 1978. What I think is the entire film is posted on YouTube with French language. It can be seen-->HERE.

I think there is a Hollywood version of the film or at least an English translation, I can't find that online though.

I vaguely remember a type of remake of the film La Cage aux Folles called "The Birdcage" starring Robin Williams who was recently "laid to rest" after committing suicide. There is story online about Williams this very second, "Williams was cremated and his ashes were scattered in the San Francisco Bay on Aug. 12, one day after his death. Chemical substances were found in his system at the time of his passing, and toxicology results will not be made available for approximately two to six weeks while testing is being performed."

I read somewhere that some people think these "chemical substances" contributed to Williams suicide. Personally, I wouldn't doubt it one bit. From Kip Kinkel to Elliot Rodger to Charles Watson to apparently Robin Williams, many people exhibiting "abnormal" or "bizarre" behavior have or have had "psychoactive chemicals" in their system.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Cuntry Trash said:
"We seem to forget that the trash heaps at both places were there LONG before the family and the family only added to them."

"And the family only added to them..."

With all due respect Cuntry, I think that's the point.

If "The Family" were such staunch environmentalists, they wouldn't have "added" to the trash piles... instead, they would have made a concerted effort to clean things up.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

-It's a fact, that "the Family" had gasoline hidden in the desert, in various locations.

-It's a fact, that "the Family" tinkered with cars, and left portions of said vehicles behind... dismantled, rusting... and likely leaking oil.

-It's a fact, that "the Family" deliberately burned a large piece of heavy equipment (Michigan front loader) in an act of vandalism.
The rubber tires on that type of machinery weigh hundreds of pounds.

Have you ever seen the pollution caused by (hundreds of pounds) of burning rubber?
It's not a pretty sight.

That's not to mention, the paint, upholstery, plastic, oil and anti-freeze that likely burned, along with the tires.


LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Cuntry said:
"No doubt ATWA would be a lot better without Manson's name, but it also needs to be ran like an environmental non-profit and not a "Manson awareness" and "Manson memorabilia store." No way in hell anyone will take it seriously when you can go to the site and buy Manson memorabilia!"

I agree.

Quite frankly... they'd do well to simply drop the acronym "ATWA" all together.

At this point, "ATWA" is synonymous with "Manson", and it's back to square one (in terms of credibility), even without the memorabilia sales.

But you're right... the "Manson awareness" and "Manson Memorabilia" sideshow, does nothing to help their cause or the environment.

There are several GREAT environmentalist groups out there.
These folks would serve their environment better, by simply joining one of those (already established) legitimate outfits.

But let's face it Cuntry... these folks won't distance themselves from "ATWA" or "Manson".
These folks LIKE being known as "the Friends of Charlie"... just as much as they like being known as "environmentalists".(Arguably more-so).

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Which goes back to Saint's original question:

Is all this "ATWA" stuff really about the environment?
OR... is this really about Manson?

Here's how I see it:

If these ATWA folks are smart enough to KNOW, that being aligned with "Charles Manson" will cripple their advocacy efforts (regarding the environment)... and yet, they continue their affiliation with Manson... then it's more about Manson.

If they're willing to cripple their environmental campaign, by aligning themselves with a notorious character... then quite simply... it's more about the notorious character.

How else, can you possibly slice that pie?


LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

My bill is in the mail.

I accept visa, mastercard, and cash.

Ajerseydevil said...

Beauders I appreciate the reply $500 dollars doesn't seem unreasonable at all
I'm sure you'd make the initial investment back right away I for guarantee you'd get my money upon it's release and I'm 80% positive most of us familiar with you and your research would gladly do the same
I heard it's 1600 pages maybe break it down in a few different volumes I try to read anything I can on the subject unfortunately most of the time ,well actually all of the time it's just bit's and pieces taken from what's already been written I believe us T/L scholars would go crazy for any groundbreaking new information

Ajerseydevil said...

My apologies Beauders your question was any suggestions perhaps try asking us in the T/L community for a deposit on the book that would then be deducted off the price apon publication I would have no problem with this if the $$ was within reason

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

This better work, darn it.

ATWA is not a big organized campaign focused on raising money for a cause. ATWA is a loosely based bunch of individuals who singly and with families and friends do positive things to redeem the Earth and Her animals and plants.

It's not about raising big wads of cash - the only money really needed is for website fees, and with social media even that is negligible. Want an organization that wastes money? Try Salvation Army, which last year raised millions and spent it on paying administrators six figure incomes, "saving" people for their fictional character and building hundred-thousand dollar facilities, although they purport to be about helping impoverished people. Sorry Katie - it's as much of a rip-off as most Xian enterprises (like collecting tithes so the Zpope can buy more gold and real estate). ATWA at least does not lie about buying care packages for prisoners. Think any of your collection-plate offerings actually go to help "the poor"? HA!

Look at some of the ATWA supporters on Facebook. They are rescuing animals, cleaning up parks, removing garbage from rivers, boycotting factory farms, advocating for safe products, informing the public about poisons (pesticides, GMOs, coal tars, etc.) one young lady bought property and established an animal refuge. Another

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

(2) regularly protests against companies that pollute the Great Lakes. And so on.

It is not supposed to be organized or huge. It's supposed to be individuals doing tasks on their own. Organized environmental groups are sometimes as bogus and greedy as organized religion.

Others are legit - look up their yearly statement and see how much their CEOs are paid vs the cost of their campaigns.

Bobby: burning waste wood and organic garbage at 50 -80% efficiency releases far few carbon emissions than burning coal or fossil

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

(3) ... Fuels at 20% or less efficiency. We could adapt to solar and wind - which is at 100%, yet that is expensive and a few years away.

What have *I* done for the environment? Besides collecting the aforementioned wood, my family has, this summer, harvested 45 bushels of food from our garden, established a community garden in a school courtyard, but up bird nesting boxes, pulled invasive species plants out of a state park, recycled, and are in the process of building a wind turbine. We bring old light bulbs to a recycling facility and used oil to a re-oil-vitalizations, whatever they're called.

ATWA brings an environmental message to young people who may not otherwise hear it - youth who are rebelling against our (often horrible) society. They might not listen to parents, teachers, or cutesy symbols like Woodsy Owl, but they'll find the words of Manson agreeable. If one disaffected young person cleans a beach or gathers bottles or yes, plants a tree because they heard Charlie suggest it - well, that's better than 500 well-adjusted kids playing video games and heaving their Red Bull cans into a landfill-bound trashcan.

This past 4th of July, a flock of tourists gathered to watch fireworks on our local Lake MI beaches. To honor America, they left behind literally piles of garbage. Water bottles. Diapers. Fireworks plastic. Broken toys. In a couple days, it would have washed into the Lake. That's 1/5 of the world's fresh water, folks. Drinking water for six states and three provinces. Been to Toledo lately? Had a nice refreshing sip of the nasty poisoned E-coli toxic algae water that comes out of the tap, via Lake Erie? Yeah. That comes from leaving sh*t on the beach. It made the papers and websites worldwide. All but one little beach. Kids that were with us started picking up crap and putting it in their canoe. Suddenly, everyone on the beach between the age if 5 and 40 started pitching in. An hour after the fireworks show, the beach was CLEAN. My son and his pals sorted the garbage and put some into recycle, the rest into a dumpster.

These young people did not need an advertising campaign, a prophet, organization, expensive incentives, leaders bawling orders, a club or payment. They just DID it. Six teens inspired sixty people.

MrPoirot said...

It isn't about environmentalism. It's about communism. Their goals are political not technical. Whether their leader is Charlie or Obama their goal is to Kill the Pigs. Their goal is power not solutions.

It's like that couple last week that kidnapped the two little Amish girls by luring them into their car with a little puppy as bait.
Don't fall for the puppy trick. Environmentalism is about communism.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Well, killing the 200 tourists that showed up might've helped too. However, then we'd have to dispose of their carcasses; and alas, machine gunning tourists is illegal. How is that communism, anyway? Communism is taking money from wage-earners and giving it to deadbeats. Redistribution of wealth without remuneration. Environmentalism does no such thing. Managing resources correctly is pure capitalism.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi AC,

If the primary goal of ATWA is to reach (and inspire) disaffected young people... (if that's their intended target audience)... then heck, they probably DID choose the right man for the job.

Charles Manson does seem quite adept at "reaching" the minds of disaffected youth.

I can't argue with you there.
You have 45 years of supportive history, on your side.

Unfortunately, I really have to wonder what OTHER ideals Charles Manson and "ATWA" are inspiring in these kids, as well.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

AC said:
"Well, killing the 200 tourists that showed up might've helped too. However, then we'd have to dispose of their carcasses; and alas, machine gunning tourists is illegal."

A comment like that, needs no rebuttal.

A wise man once said:
"It's better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth, and remove all doubt."

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

With that... I'm done for a while.

I think AC just inadvertently answered my question, about what other ideals are being inspired.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Hi Lynyrd!

That was 200,000 tourists not 200. Every local entertains the idea of shooting them at least once per summer. Not only for their ravages to the environment, but for Crocs and fake reggae music and snarling up traffic with their Beemers and drunken staggering around the resorts. Anyway.

Manson occasionally comes up with observations that more civilized people do not or cannot. Six-mile-wide garbage may in the ocean? Stop drinking bottled water, duh! Put seeds in an air gun and shoot it at empty lots. Instead of Welfare bring back the CCC. If douchewater Al Gore had said these things, people would be falling all over themselves to comply.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Um, that was called sarcasm, Lynyrd.

If every time a local said "Kill the FIPs" (f*ucking Illinois / Indiana people) was recorded by law enforcement, all of Michigan would be in jail. Heck, there is a popular T-shirt that says "it's called tourist season so why can't we shoot them?"

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Noted that a sarcastic remark about shooting tourists - in response to the completely absurd rant about communism and death to pigs and whatever - gets a response, but fifty legit suggestions for saving the environment gets NO acknowledgement.

All that crap about "dominion over the Earth" aside, you guys still gotta breathe the air and drink the water. And won't you be surprised when you finally meet your reward - not floating off to your fictional heaven, but reincarnation in a Calcutta landfill?

starship said...

AC! I am very happy that we hear from you again. I hope you are well.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

BTW, I just looked up the source of the inmmensely popular saying / bumper sticker / T shirt about shooting tourists during tourist season.

Charles Manson? Nope.

George Carlin.

A final thought: Need toilet paper? Save a tree. Recycle a Bible.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Ab-fab, Starship, and you as well. Just thought I'd pop in, offend the living day lights out of people, hopefully motivate thought (and action!) then leave again.

Cuntry Trash said...

I consider myself an ATWA supporter in spirit, despite being at odds with MANY of them. I will never donate another $, though.

I work at two wildlife rescue-rehab centers, and volunteer at TreePeople and volunteer at a horse sanctuary and will be volunteering at FarmLot59.

Charlie did not provoke me to do this, I did it on my own.

However, try getting a lot of those people who play ATWA to participate in clean-ups and see how many will do it.

As for the seed gun, that is a good idea BUT you need to have a very good knowledge of local species. I see people shooting what would be considered invasive species all over the place. Not cool and potentially disastrous. And that was not M's idea, he had a similar idea of someone else who actually brought it to fruition.

The name Manson is a double-edge sword:
1. it can take misguided youth attaching themselves to him for his notoriety, and then he can tune them in with ATWA...


2. Someone very influential may be interested in ATWA, and when they realized it is associated with Manson, they will abandon any ties to it.

ATWA should have never been developed into a non-profit anyways. The fact they claim no money, while having a donate button on their site, is going to get them into some mess with the IRS. And if they are claiming to income, it really dissolves any need for a non-profit.

It was a lot better when it was a word for balance with earth and its contents in harmony.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

AC Said:
"A final thought: Need toilet paper? Save a tree. Recycle a Bible."

I've known hundreds (if not thousands) of Christians in my lifetime... a large number of Jews... and a pretty good smattering of Muslims.
I've also known quite a number of Agnostics, who basically label themselves as "spiritual but undefined".

Honestly AC... you're the ONLY self-proclaimed Pagan, that I've ever interfaced with.
Yes... the only one.

Sometimes, you gotta know when you've already lost and admit defeat.
I think it's time.

Good luck with all that.

I'll roll the dice on Jesus.
Good luck with your buddy Charles Manson, and the rest of your "Gods". LMAO!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Gene Simmons was the "God of Thunder and Rock-n-Roll" in the 1970's.

Maybe you can add him to your list.



A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

There are over two million neo-Pagans in America, another million old line Pagans, and several million more who align with some type of Nature Spirituality, including Native Americans.

We do not have the self-destructive philosophy of "dominion over the Earth". That one line in your Bible is responsible for the planetary genocide we see at work today.

Humanity existed for 200,000 years before someone made up the fictional Jesus. Humanity will not last ten minutes without Air.

The statement "Air is God" has considerable more value than the fallacious "Jesus is Lord".

katie8753 said...

I guess AC finally figured out how to push the "publish your comment" button. LOLOL.

katie8753 said...

Hey AC, you were born too late. If you had been around in 1969, something tells me that you would have fit into the TLB murders just fine. HA HA HA.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

AC said:
"There are over two million neo-Pagans in America, another million old line Pagans..."

Honestly AC...

I'm not just trying to bust your cookies here.
On my word as a man... I've never met a single self-proclaimed Pagan along my travels... not one.

And heck... even OUR relationship, is only online.

I really don't care what you believe... I really don't.
I'm not in the business of converting people.

But heck...
I'm not going to sit back and watch, as you throw stones at my beliefs (again).

You should realize AC, that by attacking other religions constantly, you're a poor example of your own.

Every time we get into this, you draw first blood.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

As usual AC, all your religious mambo-jahambo is just smoke and mirrors.

Answer me this AC:

How much of this ATWA stuff is about the environment, and how much is about defending and supporting Charles Manson?

Give me a percentage.


MrPoirot said...

Coal is a very efficient energy producer. It is a major reason for America's affluent past because it brought affordable energy to the common man.
As coal burning electric plants are being shut down watch your electric bill go up.
Get used to high energy costs and a lower standard of living as the environmentalists gain more and more ground. Watch as the price of gas rises as more and more government regulation is imposed by the environmental crowd.
Just since Uncle Woody took over the white house the US has fallen from 1st to 16th in per capita income in the world. He's doubled the price of gas. Look at the cost of food now. Tuna has gone from .40 cents to .80 cents a can.

As environmentalists gain more and more power over you watch your standard of living fall. Canada now has a higher standard of living that the US for the first time. THe Canadian government has told their scientists to stop espousing global warming. Look at the anger directed at America by the environmentalists. They hate America. "Need toilet paper? Use your bible". Look at the anger that drives the communist environmental movement to destroy christian America. There is no place for Christianity under the communist form of government. The State takes the place of God.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Bobby, your serious question deserves a serious answer, so all facetious feces aside: if waste wood and organic garbage is burned, how does that affect the environment?

OK, the absolute worst way to generate power is by burning coal. Coal is dig out of the ground or strip mined, which destroys acres of land. Cutting off the top of a mountain and removing the coal, then putting the mountain back UPSIDE DOWN puts the topsoil undergound and the bad rock at the surface. Nothing grows there for decades. The waters used to wash dirt away from the coal combines with various chemical components to create, among other things, sulfuric acid. Remember earlier this year, when several towns in West VA could not drink their water, because of coal runoff? Then the coal has to be shipped - using energy - and burned, creating air pollution.

The next worse, IMHO, is nuclear. This creates radioactive wastes that take centuries to dissipate, which have to be stored. If these wastes escape, they can cause radiation burns to every living thing they touch, genetic mutations such as hereditary cancer. And -Fukushima - need I say more?

Fossil fuels are next - again, removing them from their source pollutes the ground water, burning them pollutes the air, and may cause climate change. Leaks destroy rivers and wetlands, and all the living things contained within. Remember the disastrous leak in Lousiana? That's still being cleaned, fishing industry devastated, waterfowl decimated.

Next is hydraulic fracking for natural gasses. The companies that do it refuse to tell us what they use - but scientists guess solvents such as benzine. Suffice to say, water that's used for washing away fracking solvents can never be used for anything else. It may cause earthquakes and climate change. Some politicians want to sell state and National park land for fracking.

Now we get to burning other stuff. It does not release as many pollutants or carbon into the atmosphere - 50 to 80% less than fossil fuels - but it still releases some. Waste wood includes trees that fall during storms, post-consumer waste, pallets, packaging, etc which can be manufactured from any plant matter. Organic garbage can be burned outright or used to produce methane which either is burned or simply used for heat produced by microbes. It still releases carbon - but LESS. Often this stuff is burned anyway - wasted - or buried in landfills.

Next best are solar and wind, which release no carbons, but still have an impact on wildlife. Materials must be produced to generate and transport the power. This could be done a lot more efficiently (and profitably) than is currently done. These also don't destroy entire mountains, rivers, ocean gulfs, etc.

So, yes, Bobby, my wood-fired steam furnace is not as good as using 100% wind energy but it's still a heckuva lot better than using propane or coal. We don't cut live trees, we usually get downed wood from the tornado-of-the-year.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Mr. Peroit, why do you think this is a hatred of America? Christianity and America are not synonymous. It is arrogant as all get-out for Christians to think their myths usurp not only our Constitution but Nature herself.

Lynyrd, you apparently do not realize how offensive several of the statements made - even in jest - actually are. Like "self proclaimed" Pagan - like Nature spirituality is somehow invalid, like people just made it up or something. Then when I respond with something equally offensive you get all shocked and upset.

You ask how much of ATWA is for the environment and how much is for Manson - that varies with every individual involved, as does participation in environmental causes. For someone like Star, who is involved in a relationship with Charles, it's obviously important to her that her loved one get proper food and has a chance at a new trial. For someone like me, I'm 90% committed to the environment, but still gotta heat my house somehow. For others, they devote ALL of their time to, say, rescuing stray dogs, most of their income, and will sacrifice relationships and cars and so on for their cause.

You seem to be thinking in a proscribed manner - in order for something to be valid, it must have a president and a budget and fundraising and a set way of performing tasks. ATWA is outside that box. Someone who lives in an apartment and grows a tomato plant in a coffee can is doing an act for ATWA. Someone who gives up all fossil fuels and lives in a yurt and walks everywhere is doing something for ATWA. Someone who rescues a feral cat is doing something for ATWA. Someone who writes to their governor and asks them to ban fracking is doing something for ATWA.

You don't need to send money to do something for ATWA. It helps run a website with suggestions to do other stuff for ATWA. But if you stop using plastic drinking bottles for a year and bicycle to school, you've done just as much.

Then again, I'm not understanding how dumping a bucket of ice on your head is curing Lou Gehrig's disease, or how sharing the color of your bra cures breast cancer.

And Mr. Peroit - we can have an equally large GNP without the lung cancer, undrinkable water, winters without snow, droughts, and other byproducts of coal consumption. That, and we're gonna run out of coal in a couple years... I'll be toasty warm while those who rely on coal will see their breath as they sing "Onward Christian Soldiers".

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Also, Mr. Poirot, you noted that tuna is now doubled in price per can - all due to regulation, not due to over-fishing, water pollution killing the fish, or trying to find tuna that isn't pull items with mercury?

Tell me, since the 1880s, how much has passenger pigeon increased per pound?

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Darn you, auto correct.

katie8753 said...

AC is a lot like Manson. She talks a lot, but never really says anything interesting or important.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

AC said:
"Lynyrd, you apparently do not realize how offensive several of the statements made - even in jest - actually are. Like "self proclaimed" Pagan - like Nature spirituality is somehow invalid, like people just made it up or something. Then when I respond with something equally offensive you get all shocked and upset."


You slung several anti-Christian insults, before I ever responded to you.
I'm not going to waste my time, re-pasting all of your insults.
Your comments are here, for everyone to read.
You weave Anti-Christian rhetoric into most of your posts.
You've been doing that for years.

Two of your highlights today, were insulting my Pope and suggesting that my Holy Bible be used for toilet paper.
That's pretty ignorant stuff.
I would HOPE that even most Pagans, would view your behavior as ignorant.

Does the Pagan religion teach it's members to hate all Christians?
Judging from your behavior... that's what I would conclude.


You hurled several Anti-Christian insults, before I ever mentioned anything related to religion!
As I said... go back and read it.

For the record:
I never discuss religion on this blog.

I challenge you to search this entire blog.
You won't find a single instance, when I discussed or bashed Pagans (or, any other religion for that matter).
That's YOUR bag.
That's YOUR MO!

You're the person who never misses an opportunity to bash other religions.
You're obviously filled with hate, and your message smacks of hate.

If you took my words "self-proclaimed Pagan" as an insult, you're obviously over-sensitive.

What I meant was this:
I don't know anyone who calls themselves a Pagan in my area (ie, "self-proclaimed").

There may be some "closet Pagans" lurking around, that I don't know about... BUT, I've never met anyone face-to-face who told me straight-away, that they were a practicing Pagan... ie, none that were "self-proclaimed".

I could drive you to the homes of many Christians.
I couldn't direct you to one Pagan home.

If there are millions of Pagans around... they're definitely not in my area.
If all Pagans are filled with as much hate towards Christians as you are, then I guess that's a good thing.

I refuse to believe, that any religion (Pagan or otherwise) would instill such bigotry towards other religions.

You obviously have a personal prejudice and problem, that you're not dealing with in a healthy manner.

It is, what it is.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Pagans believe that Nature is Goddess / Mother, not just a dead rock to plunder. That animals, plants, air and water are just as important as, if not more important, than humans. That sharks and birds and bacteria were made in Godess's image. That no silly words on paper written by some anonymous human author give man authority over Nature. That it is our obligation to care for our Mother, the Esrth. That stupid buildings full of ugly statues are not as vital as rivers and lakes.

The Vikings, like the Celts (and pre-Celts) killing other tribes does not negate this. Christians not only co quoted other tribes, they ravaged their culture and wiped out entire species because they imagine their god told them they can.

Now they espouse destroying the entire ecosystem, the whole planet... And you wonder why I scorn that?

Christians undermined female authority and destroyed arts, music, culture -- they sure don't like it when ISIS Muslims in Iraq do it to them. Women have only had equality in America for the past 50 years. Even know, people say they have never known a priestess or heard of another Pagan -- it's because Christians committed genocide. Even the Pope had to apologize for the devastation!

So, yeah. When you make things right, maybe I'll feel less animosity.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Fertilizer can be made from other substances, Bobby, including manure. Including human manure. If you live in a city, where does your poop go? Into the sewer. To the waste treatment plant. Where it is...... Turned into fertilizer? Rejoined to the life cycle? Nope, it's BURNED. Releasing carbon and other toxic emissions into the air.

Yes, some dead wood must be left to rot on the forest floor. Are pallets and post-consumer waste left to rot on the forest floor? Nope, they are buried in landfills!

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

You seem to think that a few individual people dying is terrible -- Vikings killing their enemies, some dope fiends killing other dope fiends & a B-grade actress 45 years ago. That's so awful.

But killing an entire ecosystem? Big deal! We've gotta have a higher standard of living, after all. Wiping out an entire species? So what! Slaughtering an entire nation, destroying their very history, rendering half their population unequal for a thousand years? Well, we did it in the name if Christ, so it was okay!

Your priorities stink. No wonder you're upset with me for pointing that out to you. I'm so hateful and mean for speaking truthfully about your destruction. It all happened so long ago, I should just forget about it and hold hands and sing Kumbayah.

Unknown said...

Lets take a look at the Financial Records.....

Unknown said...

Leaving Religion aside for a moment.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Actually, the whole notion of establishing a non-profit corporation was my bright idea. Well, George and Sandy thought of it first. Star and others get blamed for it --- but i suggested it. And i talked Charles into it; not the other way around.

I sold memorabilia to a collector to finance it, and handed over a fairly decent sum. It's now NMP. Whether it was a great idea that will make a profound impact on the environment and stimulate millions to plant trees, or a colossal waste of resources, remains to be seen.

Some, like Cuntry Trash, think it was a stupid idea. Fair enough. Cuntry Trash is still doing a lot of amazing things for the natural world & domestic animals, and would do so whether or not there is money or an organization. Thereby earning the right to comment.

Others, like the St. and Katie, don't seem to be doing jack for their planet - all they're doing is criticizing. You know what they say about opinions and butt holes...

I'd thought that having a legal organization and a way to collect offerings without taxation might make a positive difference. Has it? I don't know yet. Might it? Sure.

Is that the only thing to do? Of course not. As I said previously, individuals doing stand-alone acts is crucial.

Now, if one young person who wants to make a difference in their world hears about ATWA and picks up one Pepsi can and puts it in the recycle - it's worth it to me. Regardless of whether you think Star is wasting money buying clean underwear for Charles.

If you don't want to donate or participate - jolly. Katie and Saint can cheerfully return to their regularly programmed substance abuse, Cuntry Trash will rescue a horsie (until today I'd never heard of that group!) the rest of youse will debate what color underwear a B actress was wearing when her friends' drug dealers killed her, and so on.


If a whole bunch of us don't stop using coal and fossil fuels, we are ALL in deep doo doo.

Ajerseydevil said...

AC once again reading your nonsense has left me mentally exhausted Are you still holding on to the traffic ticket proving Manson's innocence ? Another great reminder why I partake in my 2nd Amendment freedom
Lynyrd thought you quoting WC Fields my late father's all time favorite wonder
Have a good weekend all

Patty is Dead said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...

Sunset, thanks for researching La Caux Aux Folles for me. It is a very funny French movie that was made in 1978. Hilarious.

And The Birdcage with Robin Williams is an American remake. Funny stuff! I appreciate your time in that. I'm sorry I got waylaid with all this other hateful bullshit with AC and forgot to thank you!

katie8753 said...

Thanks William! Have a nice weekend!!! :)

sunset77 said...

Wow, AC Aldag-Fisher, I guess it's been like 2 years since I seen one of your comments. There hasn't been much drama around here lately.

So far as ATWA goes, I ran across an old blog about a year ago, I think it was called "Desert Rat" or something like that. I think some of the Manson family were still living or at least visiting Barker Ranch. I think Lynette Fromme and possibly several other of the Manson girls were posting on that blog about ATWA. I doubt if I could find that blog again though.

I remember God of Thunder.

Now that I think about it, the last time I talked to AC Aldag-Fisher, Charles Manson was in the "hole" and I said I didn't expect him to come out of it alive. AC said he would make it out of there alive, he did, I was wrong. I've been in one of those "hole" cells myself, I know exactly what it is. For Manson to make it out of there alive at his age is pretty remarkable. Unfortunately, one cell looks like another when you die in prison though.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Bobby, you just made poor little Hope Dolphin cry. The ocean is salty because of her tears.

William, mentally exhausting you is easy as putting you in a round room and telling you to stand in a corner.

What does the printout of the ATWA non-profit's assets tell me? They have three years to file taxes better get on it. And that Michael Channels is butt-hurt when his own memorabilia supply dried up....!

katie8753 said...

If you don't want to donate or participate - jolly. Katie and Saint can cheerfully return to their regularly programmed substance abuse, Cuntry Trash will rescue a horsie (until today I'd never heard of that group!) the rest of youse will debate what color underwear a B actress was wearing when her friends' drug dealers killed her, and so on.

AC, you have stooped to a new low. I guess you are feeling unappreciated, which is natural, due to your ineffectiveness as a human being.

More on you later....

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...


I think you're in desperate need of a hug.

Seriously woman... lighten up.
It's 2014.

The Christians espouse destroying the entire ecosystem, the whole planet

Where do you come up with this shit?

Jeez AC...
If everything you believe about the Christians were actually true, I'd hate them myself!! LOL!

Go plant a tree, light a bonfire, ring in the sheaves, make a charm bracelet out of popcorn... or whatever it is, you do for fun... and relax sister! Splurge a little. Have a beer! LOL!

I find it absolutely impossible to believe, that you have NO Christian friends.

Heck... you must have at least a couple.
Out of respect for them alone, you'd think you'd chill out on this stuff.

Fact is AC, there are assholes in EVERY religion... including my own. (and yours)

If you're looking for assholes in this world, you'll never have a shortage.

Why don't you focus on the positive achievements (and members) of the various religions instead?

A wise man once said:
"There's good and bad in all groups"

That's the freakin' truth AC, and you need to loosen-up your panties a little bit, in terms of Christians.
They're not ALL bad people.
I know... I'm one of them.
And NO... my goal, is NOT to destroy the entire planet! ; )

For the record:
I have never encountered the abbreviation "X's" to mean "Christian's" in my entire life (until I met you).

I don't know where you comes up with this stuff.
I guess that makes me an "X"? LOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

William said:
"AC once again reading your nonsense has left me mentally exhausted."

Yeah... me too!

Remind me to never allow Saint to post on here again.
I WAS enjoying my week, until this thread went up. LOL!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Have a coke and a smile. LOL

Unknown said...


I would love to have more people in my life with the heart, passion, and loyalty that you have shown since I first started chatting with you.

If you read the first quote in this thread- it was chosen with you in mind. That is the truth...

I always thought of you as a strong, intelligent person. Even though we don't agree on many subjects- I respect your fight, and your willingness to handle hard questions. I like to think I do the same.

I posed a question...

In my opinion as far as listing tangible things which have been accomplished- you gave an answer which is fair, and enough to show there have been some things done!!

... and your right about what I will return to lol

A long weekday of substance abuse and Coors- lite in a can :)

Here's hoping you all have one as good as mine :)

My opinion pieces are just that. my opinion. All opinions are welcome and encouraged...

After all- we have to do something until the next book, or parole hearing

St. Circumstance

katie8753 said...

Remind me to never allow Saint to post on here again.
I WAS enjoying my week, until this thread went up. LOL!

This isn't Saint's fault, it's AC's fault.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I'm kidding Katie... kidding.

Notice the large "LOL" at the end...

MrPoirot said...

Anytime you hear anyone esposing anti coal rhetoric you are hearing a commie spew propaganda
Fracking is not new. it has been used for nearly 50 years. These environmentalists hear the words coal or fracking and they freak out because those two words symbolize a prosperous America. In their minds America is evil so anything which is good for America is bad for them because they hate America. It's not about the environment. Environmentalism is about communism. It's about them controlling you. It's about them being in power. It's about ideology-theirs. Your ideology has to Cease to Exist so they can install a communist society which disallows God.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Saint said:
"All opinions are welcome and encouraged..."

All opinions are welcome, except the Christian bashing nonsense.

You wrote a great thread Saint, but it's still my blog.

My blog.
My rules.


katie8753 said...

Hey AC, what does the color of the "B Actress'" underwear have to do with ATWA?

You have to stoop so low as to make fun of the victims. That's so fucking sad. You've run out of material.

Well, I know that you are incapable of answering questions, so I'll just devolve this interrogation into you clumping your hoof "once for yes, twice for no".

Think you can handle that you stupid ass has-been never-was nobody???

Talk it up motherfucker. We're all listening!!

I'm just gettin' warmed up!

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Katie - you missed the point. Most of these true-crime blogs are about what color was the victims' underwear, what did they have for lunch... It's, well, obsessive. How is that blaming the victim? The people to blame for the crimes were the perps: Charles Tex Watson and Susan Atkins.

You seem to want to rehash every detail of the crimes, down to who knew whom in Hollywood - while disparaging the environmental movement - the main reason being it's not being run the way you think an organization should be run. IMHO, if you are doing something worthwhile, say, planting flowers butterflies like, then you can criticize people whom you feel aren't doing enough for the cause. But if you're sitting around discussing the victims' shoe size, and that's all you are doing with your life - then who are you to criticize the accused's loved one for attempting to create an organization? Star might not be running ATWA according to Robert's Rules of Order... But what the hell are you doing? Reading true crime journals is a fun hobby, I'm sure; but that's not doing anything to promote clean air.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Mr. Poirot, LOL, that's the first time I have been called a commie. I'm a far right-republican.

Coal isn't going to be profitable for long - if everyone who has gotten lung cancer sues the coal industry, or had their crops or fishing ruined by coal sludge, it's as dead as big tobacco.

In favor of big oil? Then you're in bed with Muslims. You're supporting global terror. Let the Arabs drown in their oil, and put America on the fast-track with home-grown energy.

Someone who is really interested in profitability of America would devest from industries that are tanking, and would promote businesses and corporations that are actually gonna make money. Bought any vinyl records lately? How about buggy wheels? Big coal is down the drain. If you want to make money, and support America, and create jobs, and restore America to greatness, dump your oil stock and invest in wind power and electric cars. It's the patriotic thing to do. As well as preserving your health.

katie8753 said...

Katie - you missed the point. Most of these true-crime blogs are about what color was the victims' underwear, what did they have for lunch... It's, well, obsessive. How is that blaming the victim? The people to blame for the crimes were the perps: Charles Tex Watson and Susan Atkins.


You're the one who said it, not a "true crime blog". You're the one who asked what color Sharon's undies were.

Is that or is that not true? Clump your hoof once for yes or twice for no.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Mr. Poirot, it's possible to love America without poisoning her.

And it's possible to earn a very good living without destroying your neighborhood.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Katie, put down the Mad Dog 20 20 bottle, sit up out of the gutter, pull the dog turd out of your ear canal, and listen up. Focus all your limited powerful of concentration, there's a good girl. Now, I 'm sure Ms. Tate was as talented as the average Kardashian sister, but your fixation with her is a bit unhealthy. And I'm certain she was a very nice person, and certainly did not deserve her unpleasant demise. But. When one marries a child molesting rapist who makes porn films on the side, and associates with drug dealers, one cannot rule out the possibility that one's unsavory companions might cause oneself a spot of trouble. Even you can arise from your alcoholic fog to comprehend that fact.

Meticulously cataloging every tacit of the crime, masturbating over the blood spatter patterns, does NOT change the fact that It's over. Done. And that Charles Manson was two counties away when one useess dope fiend killed another, and unfortunately the friends were collateral damage.
It's supremely difficult to kil someone from that great of a geographic distance.

Because Manson had knowledge after the fact of said drug dealers killing one another, he was indicted for conspiracy. Like many other American prisoners, he has decided to do something positive with his life, as some have written children's books, others have trained dogs. As many prisoners have, he's involved his loved ones in his efforts.

And, yes, I find that much more useful than pouring gallons of alcohol own ones throat while exhausting every swear word in Merriam Webster's dictionary, obsessively contemplating te stomach content and brand of mascara oft he victim, and generally being a douche.

Was that simple enough for you to understand, Katie? You can retention giving yourself Vodka enemas now.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Re-read it. Quote: the rest of YOU are debating (the color of the lousy actress' underwear).

Katie is a classic example of the failure of the American public school system. Learn. To. READ!!!!

katie8753 said...

You know what AC? I used to dislike you, but now I FUCKING HATE YOU!

By your own admission, you did all this because you wanted to make people mad. Well you did.

You have made fun of everyone on this blog.

This is for you BEEZATCH!!!

"Would somebody put a dick in her mouth, because that's what she wants. She's a cocksucker in disguise. She's got her mouth open because she wants someone to come in it. Now do you wanna keep making noise motherfucker and we can find you that way, or are you just a punk coward asshole bullshit loud motherfucker and you're gonna shut up now so that we can't find out where the fuck you're sitting.

Cause if you keep it up, we'll grab your ass and throw you on the fucking street where you belong with your mother.

And I'm fucking her in the asshole every night anyway, so fuck you and your sister, and if you've got a kid, I hope your fucking kid dies in a car fire. How do you like that you stupid cocksucker?

Shut the fuck up and get the fuck outta here.


katie8753 said...

AC, you are the epitome of a desperate housewife. You'd better save some Mad Dog 20/20 for yourself to get thru the night.

I only wish I could blame your Schizophrenic behavior on drugs, but I truly believe it's only because of your delving into demonic activity and the driving desire to fuck Charles Manson, or what's left of him. Unfortunately, he probably turned his nose up at you because you stink more than he does.

Who are you to judge Sharon Tate? You are as jealous of her as Charlie was. You and he are both pathetic pigs.

And that Charles Manson was two counties away when one useess dope fiend killed another, and unfortunately the friends were collateral damage.
It's supremely difficult to kil someone from that great of a geographic distance.

Sorry Grandma, Charlie was in LA when the murders occurred. You are wrong as usual. And you have no proof otherwise, so get over it.

Your continual apologies for that cunt are not only pathetic, they are sadly miniscule and it only speaks for a dumbass old lady who believes the bullshit that spews out of a killer's mouth.

Charles Manson is guilty as charged. And if you can't get that, then why don't you drink your daily dose of gasoline.

Hey AC, maybe someday you can choose your kid's underwear color for ITS grave.

Won't that be funny???

Lynn said...

AC, you stated this: Next best are solar and wind, which release no carbons, but still have an impact on wildlife. Materials must be produced to generate and transport the power. This could be done a lot more efficiently (and profitably) than is currently done. These also don't destroy entire mountains, rivers, ocean gulfs, etc.

What do you think would make it more efficient?

Am curious

katie8753 said...

In case anyone doesn't know, AC Fishy Aldag is a witch. She delves into the demonic activity of the spiritual realm.

She's also a gypsy.

That's why she makes fun of traditional religious beliefs such as you and I believe in.

She's afraid of traditional beliefs because she's afraid it will undermine her demonic activities.

She's afraid the "real God" will undermine her "gods" that rule her world, which consists of dirty water, moldy tents, cobwebs, rusty tin cans, soured milk, lung cancer and no money.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Dratted autocorrect. Difficult to spank the mentally challenged Katie for deliberately misreading my statements, when a machine changes every third word.

Lynyrd, you seem to be woefully unaware of your religion's own history. Xians and Xmas are not insults, merely shorthand from your own religious background. The first Greek letters in the name of Christ are Chi and Ro -- written as PX. In Roman, those letters stand for Pax Christi. Ever seen a priest with a staff with the PX at the top? The X was your own people's shorthand for yourselves!

If you don't know that, how can I expect you to know that Catholics and other Christians are benignly and actively participating in the persecution of Pagans RIGHT NOW as I type this? Google "witch children of Africa". Women, children, and albinos are being tortured and killed in Africa - some burnt as witches, today, right now, in modern times. Especially if they have any "Satanic" powers, such as psychic talents. And if YOU have put one dime in the collection plate to "convert the heathens of Africa to the one true religion" then you have contributed to the genocide. Missionary work is not harmless.

Of course, they practiced on MY people first, and not in the distant past - Dave's Dad was a victim, in the 1950s!!! He had his lands stolen and was not able to testify in court - in the civilized UK, holding pre-Christian beliefs.

You can't do anything about the past - but why aren't Christians stopping forcible conversion, torture and murder in the name of eradicating "witchcraft" RIGHT NOW?

Think about that, the next time you chide me for joking about shooting tourists. Christians are murdering Pagan children and skinning Albino human people alive. The Church with a capital C is supporting it.

Here's an article to get you started: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/324943

Why does this matter to ATWA? Why am I posting it to an article about the topic?

Every time people who worship Nature and steward the land are wiped out wholesale, by people whose policy it is to destroy the Earth for convenience or gross national product, the planet suffers. All so people like Mr. Poirot can brag that America has a "high standard of living".
And that denouncing the foul practices of Xians - like forcing children to drink sulphuric acid - is "commie".

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Lynn - I wish that I could answer you in scientific terms, but I don't have the education.

Solar panels and wind turbines will have to be manufactured in America by our workers with home-made materials that are renewable - not constructed of fossil fuel-based materials. They will have to produce more power. They will have to be energy efficient. And we'll have to figure put a way to make them apparent to birds, so they don't fly into them.

Then we must entice investors into buying stock in these companies, manufactured into producing them. And of course customers into buying them.

Government contracts might help -- already many "rest areas" on highways use solar panels for all power.

Electric cars and home wind turbines will follow.

Scientifically and manufacturing - no clue. But I could market the heck out of it.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Katie: you might want to clear away your brain fog and think about why "old woman" and "grandma" are considered insults by your cancerous culture. Why Christians disrespect their women and devalue their elderly.

That you use these terms with the intent to insult makes me realize how fortunate I am to be a member of a matrifocal religion.

Why the mysogyny? I am proud and happy to be a grandmother and old woman. You Christians revile your elders and caregivers. And that is pathetic.

As for Sharon Tate: no, she did not deserve to die. But she WAS in her underwear, in bed with her hairdresser while her husband the child rapist was away. Ms. Tate was using illicit drugs while pregnant. She was associating with people whose only means of support were selling even more dangerous illegal drugs. She was complicit in her own disaster.

These are facts that cannot be refuted by your misguided hero-worship.

The target was Frykowski. Let's talk about him for a moment, shall we? A man involved in pushing dangerous illegal controlled substances. Who owed everyone money. Who was essentially homeless, a squatter. Who sucked money from his wealthy girlfriend. Who endangered his best friend's pregnant wife by hiding out with her, knowing he was in trouble with his drug overlords.

NOW I'm blaming the victim.

This is why I was absent from these forums for so long. You all are obsessed with every picayune detail of this crime, reenact every movement of the victims, read with slavering fascination the depravities of victim and perp alike, fantasize about how many women the co-conspirator slept with, in what positions, and savor every detail related to the crimes....

While I want to talk about saving endangered butterflies and cleaning beaches and finding alternative sources of power.

YES, I am insulting people. Because you're the problem! This means YOU, mysogynistic, substance-abusing, pathetic Katie!

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

P.S. There is no such thing as Satan. Using natural forces is not "demonic". "Witch" is an Anglo-Saxon word for "shaper" meaning user of natural forces. "Gypsies" are a race of people from India who moved to Romania - I am not one - again, why is that considered an insult? That's like calling someone an Ethiopian or a Serb. The Gyspies are a people, Katie, a race of Human beings. They call themselves Roma. I'm not of that people - I am Cymruaeg.

I denounce Christian practices that are ignorant and harmful - the same as I do Muslim practices that are baneful. Like, say, genocide and destruction of the Natural world.

And my beliefs ARE traditional. Nature spirituality is 200,000 years old. The first ceremonial human burial was Cymruaeg. We did not kill people to force them to convert. Christianity came from the Middle East as a heresy of Judism about 1900 years ago, and has only been practiced in Europe about 1,300 years. During that time, the usurpers managed to wipe out 6,000 other nations of people and ravaged the land. Not a bad body count, for people so ignorant that they hadn't indoor plumbing until the 1800s and who don't even know their own history of brutality.

And if your "true God" is so marvelous, why do you hate yourself so much that you must drown in mind-altering substances? Why do you despise your own gender and fixate on aberrations?

Right now, I am doing a working and praying that Christians cease doing harm to our planet. Yes, I fear you - your people are bent on destruction, in the mistaken belief that when this planet is ruined, you can sprout wings and float away on a cloud. We know this Mother Earth is all there is, and we are in mortal peril of losing her and all her beautiful life forms to your wanton destruction.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Information for people who really want to educate themselves:

About the Gypsies, or Roma. Did you know they are Europe's largest Ethnic majority? That the Nazis killed 2 million of them? That many are Christian, but there are also Muslims, Hindus, and original Earth Religious Gypsies? That the "fortune telling" and other natural arts they practice is part of a long tradition?

Shame on you, Katie, for being a racist.

Anyway: http://m.livescience.com/40652-facts-about-roma-romani-gypsies.html

Next, here's a bit of history of my people, the Cymru. http://www.everyculture.com/To-Z/Wales.html

You'll notice that many ethnic minorities are mentioned, yet it says most Cymri are Christian. Ethnic Earth Religious folks emigrated here and became Americans, although there's a neo-Pagan resurgence in Modern Wales, just as there is in America. There are a lot fewer of us than Gypsies / Roma - about 20,000.

So, seeking to insult me, and equating my people's Ways with "demons" and "witchcraft" and such, is something I've endured all my life. You can possibly understand, by listening to Katie's racist drunken ravings, why I deplore Christianity. You have no female Goddesses, thus hate women, hate Nature and try to conquor and destroy Her, and hate and fear anyone who practices the Natural Arts, thus try to wipe people out through genocides. Hate hate hate. Isn't your Jesus supposed to be a god of love?

Ajerseydevil said...

AC you"r obviously Mentality unstable
I feel much better that you're on the other side of the country They should have put Charlie in the little room to inhale the sweet Almond smell of the gas chamber 40 + years ago

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Honestly AC, I'm not even listening to you anymore.

You'll never change my religious beliefs.
You're wasting your time.

If you choose to go through life angry and butt-hurt, that's your prerogative.

Hitler blamed all the world's problems on the Jews... and just like you... Hitler had a million "half truths" at the tip of his tongue, that he could readily spew to support his opinion (i.e., his message of hate).

It's all been done before.
If you want to blame every problem in the world on Christians, knock yourself out.

While you waste your time cultivating reasons to hate your fellow man... I'm going off for the day, to enjoy my family and friends.

As I said earlier:
Good luck with all that!

candy and nuts said...

As much a it pains me to even comment AGAIN on this topic I will after reading Alice's comments. I had wrote Red back in 1990 and spoke to her in Marianna Prison on the phone. I was interested in the unity the Manson women had together in their sewing and living together as one. Lynette as she even told me herself does not correspond a lot due to the hundreds of letters she receives, but do to the fact she liked the embroidery I made she responded and answered a lot of questions and called me several times. I think only once she mentioned the acronym ATWA however we talked a lot about elephants , trees, animals and life. She send me news articles about BLue and her campaign against the Lake Champlain pollution. I was very fortunate to have had the gift of Red's passion and knowledge. That being said, I began to garden, growing many herbs, plants, berries,veggies, etc. I have a passion for stray animals and spent thousands of dollars spaying and neutering dozens of stray cats. I clean up beaches and parks and care about animals and nature. This being said , I will address the "ATWA" 2000 nas I will call it. The people who support Star have abused , harassed and threatened me and others with bodily harm and intimidation tactics for years, claiming , as with me, that I do not support ATWA and have hurt " Charlies "horses" ( [people). Hmmm, why> because I have not become a Star worshipper? Because I have not prison married one of Charlie's inmate friends? Because I think the majority of FB ATWA people are bullshit? Ive asked a few of these so called ATWA people if they have ever had a garden or tried the seed ball, many have said NO. The AIR IS GOD photo of Star , CM and BLackwolf posted on MAnson Direct is absurd considering Blackwolf has a photo of himself on his FB page smoking a cigarette. I guess air is god but HE can smoke and pollute the air the same blackwolf who gave me some shit about dying my hair and how bad chemicals are. Insofar as paganism, I appreciate AC's defense of her beliefs . I am well aware of paganism and Earth magick since my Mother in Law is one the people who began Circle Sanctuary in Wisconsin and is a Minister there. However bashing the Bible , seriously? need I say more? People like country trash I surmise has sent $to Charlie etc, and from what Ive heard, was backstabbed by Star's own friends. If Im wrong I apologize on this. And of course thename Charles Manson, whether you deem him guilt or innocent, will ALWAYS stir up controversy. People who feel insecure and need to belong will latch onto Manson and ATWA for some sense of self. I truly believe AC does care about the environment and that's great. I think the majority of this WORLD cares about it. If you have no air you cant breathe. If you have no clean water you will die. Simple as that.

MrPoirot said...

AC, you stated this: Next best are solar and wind, which release no carbons, but still have an impact on wildlife. Materials must be produced to generate and transport the power. This could be done a lot more efficiently (and profitably) than is currently done. These also don't destroy entire mountains, rivers, ocean gulfs, etc.

What do you think would make it more efficient?

Mr Poirot replies:

Lynn you act like you just started to realize how energy is produced and transmitted. If you believe the AC types you're going to see gas prices and food prices double again in 5 years while your paycheck shrinks.

America has been generating and transmitting electricity for 150 years. We had the best economy in the world. Then the commies show up and attack our large middle class by trying to deny them the use of affordable, plentiful energy that made America great.
AC wants to destroy everything that was America.
Why must we all be poor? What was wrong with millions of people living comfortable lives? Why must we destroy America?
Lynn if you listen to the environmentalists we will all end up poor again. Don't piss away America in exchange for communism.

Marliese said...

AC, manson was not "two counties away" when Tex and the girls killed Sharon Tate and the others at Cielo. On August 7, 1969, more than thirty hours before the Cielo killings began, Manson got a traffic ticket in the twinkie truck in Oceanside, two hours from Spahn's Ranch. The ticket was found in the truck when Mary and Sandy used it the next day to steal from Sears in San Fernando...not far from the Santa Susana Pass. You always stupidly claim that ticket is some kind of alibi for him when in fact it proves he was close enough to Spahn's Ranch for the girls to use the truck the next day...several hours before the Cielo murders.

And people study the blood spatters because the Cielo crime scene left by the killers is not the crime scene found by the police.

And he wasn't an accessory after the fact when he walked into the Labianca home, tied up Leno and Rosemary, reassured them they wouldn't be hurt and then handed them off to killers to be slaughtered. He was also not any of your stupid excuses when he sliced up Gary Hinman's face or watched the crew bludgeon and stab Donald Shea. It was his idea to kill him. "Why, Charlie?" For thinking him a snitch. Stop being so damn stupid about his involvement in murder, and conspiracy to murder. He's guilty as charged, always has been, and should have been executed straight to hell years ago.

Matt said...

This blog just has way too much drama. LOL...

katie8753 said...

Marliese, you are right on darlin'!

Manson was right there on Spahn's Ranch on August 8th. Even Stephanie says so. He was involved in EVERY murder. He should have been pushing up daisies YEARS ago.

AC can keep smoking that crack pipe and insisting on Manson's innocence, but everyone knows she's over the hill with that ticket nonsense.

I must have struck a deep nerve with the Gypsy crack. HA HA HA. That's good to know!

Well AC has been quiet today. She's either sleeping it off, or out gunning for some innocent so-and-so who happened to order a tuna sandwich at a diner in whatever third world country she lives in.

Oh, and tell all the "elderly goddesses" that I didn't mean to demean them. Let's just say they're, ahhhhh...."mature". HA HA.

Gary said...

Matt said:

"This blog just has way too much drama. LOL..."

Easy remedy for that, if you don't like it, don't come here!

katie8753 said...

I'll say one more thing before I'm done with this nonsense.

It was so tacky, tasteless and juvenile for AC to make fun of Sharon Tate.

Those words speak volumes to understand the mind of a twisted follower of Charles Manson.

Sharon didn't deserve her death, and neither did ANY of the others.

Those murders were a result of a twisted ass hippy cult leader getting pissed off and exacting revenge on people he thought were more successful than he was, even though he never put a minute's effort into trying to achieve a goal.

He thought the world owed him some kind of "fucking favor". And when he didn't get it, he exacted his revenge.

These victims did NOT deserve their demise. Not even one of them.

TomG said...

Belief systems are important in helping human beings and society keep on keeping on....

Make believe is not good for anyone. There probably is no God who loves America more than the other countries, wants you to start a small business and prosper, excuses your country's war crimes, and wants the Yankees to beat the Red Sox.

If there is that kind of God, I'll keep looking or go with out.

MrPoirot said...

Wind turbines should be called Bird Choppers. However I guess if you're going to create a communist state you're going to have to kill some birds.

TomG said...

If a human being decides to be happy, and is steadfast in that endeavor, he or she probably will be happy.
No motherfucker has the exact system that will make all people happy all of the time.
If we except this, we stop fighting as much.
But when teenage white girls start stabbing folks, I sort of lose faith in that system working.
But that's my shit.

katie8753 said...

Speaking of commies...



Matt said...

Gary, change your tampon. I was joking. The blog admins here know that.

candy and nuts said...

Not wanting to drag this thread on forever, but I'd like to add one more thing. My whole point of my last long post was that MANY people who do things considered "ATWA" and who also support MANSON have been rebuffed and abused by his very own supporters. I also understand AC's anger at Christians . I was born one and am well aware of the things Christians have done to Witches. I am a Pagan also. I choose to not follow Christianity anymore but I still read the Bible from time to time and have no issues or are intimidated by Jesus. To me its people who use his name to gain money or molest that has given JC a bad name. But google sexual abuse and theft in religion every one from Sanatan Dharma ( Hinduism) to Muslim to Pagans to Catholics has had someone in authority who has raped, stole money, committed adultery, murdered etc. I, like AC am also Welsh, my surname is Welsh my ancestors from Wales. She follows her own path and defends it. I personally don't think Lnard was trying to diss AC saying self proclaimed I will say that even of myself I proclaim my self a Witch no problem with that. Katie seriously? demonic activity? you are acting as bad as AC because Pagans and Witches come in all types from Druids to Earth magick to reiki to healers. Demonic worshippers are a whole nother level no different then Christians to Baptists etc. Now this is also my opinion so don't have a cow people -thanks

MrPoirot said...

Candy and Nuts be aware that Google is an atheist controlled anti Christian corporation. Shalom.

sunset77 said...

Off topic comments:

I was listening to the Star City thing with Brian Davis, someone wondered by Bobby Beausoliel was in OSP. A person online that worked at OSP and claimed to know Bobby said he was transferred there because Charles Manson threatened to have him killed. However, I've also read that Beausoliel and Grogan were transferred to OSP because of overcrowding in CA prisons as part of some program. I think I read that they were still under CA jurisdiction though, I'm not sure what the "rules" are for that, it was a long time ago I read that.

Also, I read a comment on here about wind turbines. I built a hunting cabin on some land about 50 yards from one of those things. I went in the bottom of it, it had an elevator halfway up and a ladder the rest of the way. I wasn't allowed up, I wouldn't have went anyway. They do kill birds, they clear a patch of perfectly good forest to put them in, and most people would be surprised at how loud they are up close. WHOOM-WHOOM-WHOOM all day long at the hunting camp. People with houses close to them sue the electric company all the time. The bad part is the electricity they generate is sent hundreds of miles away. I'm pretty sure our electric is still supplied by a big old coal fired plant. I've seen the 18-wheel dump trucks lined up at the deep mine opening where they load and haul the coal straight to the plant.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Sunset!!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

My Saturday with family and friends, turned into a long weekend away!
You gotta enjoy this nice weather, while it lasts!

Thank You Marliese.
Excellent post!

Thanks Matt... your comment made me chuckle.
As my Dad used to say, "there's never a dull moment".
BTW, do I have permission to post that photo of you with the Pope? LOL!!
(I'm just kidding, of course. You probably don't even remember emailing that photo to me. It was a couple years ago)

Candy and Tom... it's good to see you.

Poirot... chill out Brother. You're starting to worry me. LOL

Gary... it's all good.

Matt said...

Lynyrd, not on THIS post. I'd fear for my soul...

katie8753 said...

Matt, I don't blame ya. LOL.

MrPoirot said...

Sunset that coal plant near you is most likely being shut down in 2015 just like the one near me. This will raise your electricity bill and mine.

Lynyrd I've been laid off 3 times since 2010. If you're worried about me that's like the mouse worrying about being eaten by the cheese.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

LOL! Matt!

I hear ya...

MrPoirot said...


Here is an example of how Americans are having their standard of living lowered by environmentalists through a hoax called "climate change" which used to be called "global warming" until it became obvious that the earth was cooling not warming.

MrPoirot said...


Here is photographic proof that global warming is nothing but left wing propaganda being used to deny affordable energy to the common man.
Environmentalists are nothing but propagandists. They literally just make it up out of thin air.