Sandra Good at the Grand Canyon

Found on George Stimson's site Here:
http://www.gpsjr.com/2013/05/20/this-is-all-i-have-today/

Why do we care about these crimes?

Venus Writes:

What is it that makes a crime so notorious and newsworthy?  People are murdered every day, but only a few crimes are ever talked about.  Why have some crimes become historical?  What makes them topics of never ending conversation?  Why do we CARE?

Think about Jack the Ripper, the Black Dahlia, the Clutter family murders, the MacDonald family murders....do these murders resonate because they happened to regular people?  They could've happened in one of our neighborhoods.  The Clutter family was a well-loved and respected family.  Their murders happened in a small town.  Was that why it was so shocking?  Things like that shouldn't happen in small towns.  Do we think that they should only happen in big cities with high crime rates?  After all, that makes more sense, right?  Crimes are more common in big cities.

Why are we so fascinated?  Is the main fascination with Jack the Ripper and the Black Dahlia the fact that they were never solved?  While there have been numerous suspects, no one was ever tried for the murders. 

What about the celebrity murders?  To name a few:  Nicole Brown Simpson, Lana Clarkson and, of course, the Manson murders.  Why do we care if celebrities were killed?  Is it because we think that things like that shouldn't happen to the rich and famous?  Does it make them seem more normal?  Do we feel as if we knew the victim since we've read about them in magazines and seen them on the movie or TV screen? 

Do we care about Sharon Tate because of the horrific fact that a very pregnant, defenseless woman was murdered?  She died while trying to protect her unborn baby.  Is that why we feel so much (understandable) sympathy for her?  Is that why this crime still generates so much attention?  Do we care because an heiress was murdered?  How many people probably walked by Abigail Folger on the street and never knew who she was?  Jay Sebring was a famous hairstylist.  He died while trying to protect his former fiancee.  It made him into a heroic figure.  Is that why we care about him?  Steven Parent was just a teenager whose own parents couldn't believe he was murdered at a movie stars house.  The LaBiancas were a couple enjoying a night at home.

Bad things aren't supposed to happen in a place where stars live.  That's a place where dreams are supposed to come true.  Is that why we care?

Or....is it because we're grateful that it didn't involve one of our loved ones?

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Lynyrd Responds:

Why is this case so memorable, marketable and widely-discussed?
That’s an interesting question, which has been debated and pondered many times.

If you polled 100 people, you’d get several different answers.

My best experience (in regards to this question),  was a lengthy discussion between Leary7 and SaintC.
It was one of their first blog conversations… and it pressed-on for several days.
OK… it was more of an argument, but who’s counting. LOL

As Leary said it best:
"This case is interesting, because it contains 'several interesting elements'".
I couldn’t agree more.
Leary nailed it.

Ed Sanders opens his book, with a strikingly similar sentiment.

Sanders writes:
"The Manson case had everything--- it ripped aside enough of the veils of Hollywood to titillate the nation’s and even the world’s interest.  It had rock and roll, it had the lure of the Wild West, it had the essence of the 1960’s with it’s sexual liberation, it’s love of the outdoors, it’s ferocity and it psychedelic drugs.  It had the hunger of stardom and renown; it had religions of all kinds, it had warfare and homegrown slaughter, it had it all in a huge moiling story of sex, drugs and violent transgression."

For some folks (such as Venus)…  the Hollywood backdrop is their main catalyst… (with Sharon Tate and Jay Sebring as their focal point).  Their focus is fueled by "stars who have fallen from the sky" sorta speak.  "Hollywood" as it were, is the allure.  

As for me, the Hollywood angle has never been a major motivator (of my interest).  It’s certainly an interesting piece of the puzzle (no doubt).   It adds spice.  But people have been murdered in Hollywood before… and bottom line… most of the victims weren’t really famous anyway. 

No… it’s the context of these murders… and most specifically… the killers themselves… who make this topic interesting (to me).  It‘s "the family’s" unique lifestyle… the 1960’s setting… and my eternal intrigue with Manson’s psyche which motivate me.

I’d love to crawl inside Manson’s brain for a week, and take a good look around.
Psychologically… what makes this guy tick?

As for the other "Manson associates":
Who ARE these freaks? And, how did they arrive at this strange ability to kill without remorse?  What “transformed” them??  OR…were they transformed at all??  Could it be, that these folks were always predisposed to evil acts, and simply needed the right set of circumstances to trigger them?  And if that’s the case… how did they all find each other??  That notion certainly brings renewed meaning to the phrase “birds of a feather… flocking together”.  

Their lifestyle (and  unwavering devotion) is yet another, related study.

Bottom line:
From a psychological and sociological standpoint, this entire situation (and the folks involved) presents a goldmine of study.

Then of course… there’s the girls… always the girls.
Heck… what red-blooded man, isn’t intrigued by a bevy of beautiful young women?
The “Manson women” have ALWAYS been a huge draw for me.

And then of course… there’s the "legal element".
It’s not my top interest… but, I do enjoy kicking-around legal debates, as much as the next "makeshift lawyer" from time to time LOL

And of course… last, but not least… there’s the endless “motive” debate and question.
"Motive" is a topic, which any legitimate TLB forum must explore.

Yes… there are several reasons to become interested in this case.  
“Several interesting elements” as Leary, said it best.  

There’s "something for everyone".  And THAT my friends, is why this case has stood the test of time… and books and movies will continue to be marketed.

For the record:
I believe the TLB case involves MORE "interesting elements" than any other murder case in history.  The only case which approaches this case (in terms of interesting elements), is the JFK assassination.  But still, I give the nod to TLB, by a landslide.   

And in all murder cases… I submit… it’s the motive and the murderers, who make things interesting.  Not to sound flippant… but truth be told… anyone can become a victim.  The concept of "victim" (in and of, itself), is somewhat self-explanatory.  The real question becomes:  Why did the murderer kill?  What made the murderer tick?  What was going-on, inside that freak’s mind?  What circumstances led to this horrible situation?  How and Why, did this happen?   
And THAT, my friend Venus, is the REAL intrigue! LOL

Peace!

LAPD has the Tex Watson Tapes

Courtesy: Backporch Tapes Collection

Rare Charles Manson Photos

Charles Manson with his wife (Wedding Day)

Related Excerpts from Ed Sanders' Book:

Michael (from Backporch Tapes) asks Manson about this wedding photo. 

Phone conversation - 5/22/2013

Charlie jokes:

"Yeah, I married Bruce Willis... I mean, Rosalie Willis". LOL

Manson goes on to describe her as "a chubby Irish gal". LOL

Little Charles Manson with his cousin (and possibly grandmother).

Was this photo taken the same day?  YOU DECIDE!  LOLOL!!

From "Rolling Stone" Magazine

Miscellaneous...

SOURCE:
http://manson2012.tumblr.com/

SaintC on the open seas... Again! LOL

Once this thing hits open water it's on!

They're playing "Sailing" during the ceremony.  

You can't make this stuff up.

But I have a hot chick in front of me, so my attention is divided. 

The key to any successful cruise.

I've got her right where I want her!

On our way now...

Double-fisted  already

Fish Tank centerpieces.  Nice touch!

Another night ends with feet up staring at moon over downtown Ft Lauderdale too wasted to stand up. lol

Roll 'em!

"Lash LaRue" needed money towards the end of his career as an actor.  He claimed he didn't know that "Hard on the Trail" 1969 was a "pornographic western".  Several websites indicate that Donald "Shorty" Shea may have had a "bit" part in this film (and other films).  Other Manson-related people, may have landed small acting roles, as well.  IMDB says this movie was filmed at Bell, Corrigan and Spahn movie ranches. 

IMDB lists a "Randy Starr" and a "Mike Armstrong" as two names I recognize in the credits.  Unfortunately, I've been unable to watch any of the films in this post, in their entirety.  I've only been able to find a few clips and stills.  I did message briefly, with a person who had a "bit" part in this film (when he was a kid). 
He remembered very little, including which location he was at, and he was EMPHATIC that he had no contact with the other actors.  I'm pretty sure the porn was edited out of the film in 1972 and it was retitled "Hard Trail".

A clip of "Hard on the Trail" can be seen here (no porn).  Lash LaRue is "Slade":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiWnHfc9V4g

Next up:

This is another film in which Donald Shea was supposed to have appeared.

Next is:

Donald Shea is supposed to be in this film, as well.


Finally, "Diamond Stud" (1969) (no poster)

Mark Turner's website said:
"according to the director, two Manson women wrestle nude in one bar scene".  

Here's the kicker:  
All four of these films were directed by Greg Corarito.  As of yet, I haven't been able to identify a single Manson associate in any of them.  (of course, I haven't seen any of them yet either).  I don't know if Manson associates actually appeared in these films, or Mr. Corarito "embellished" the films by using the Manson name.  

Lastly, as a warning, these films appear to be pretty explicit for anyone trying to research them.

And that's a wrap...

Apropos of absolutely nothing at all....

I (Starship) was watching a movie via the HBO GO app on his ipad, entitled EROTIC KARMA... which is one of those "Late Night" soft core porn movies, where everyone has sex but no one ever sees a penis.

IMDB has it here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2433838/

About the third scene in (right where we're getting ready for the first actual sex scene), the camera pans from a location which I can only imagine to believe is Bella Drive in LA as it shows Jeff Franklin's house (is it still called Villa Bella?) and the four houses just before it on the road leading to the end of the Cielo Drive cul-de-sac: The Kotts house, and the two not there in 1969, one being the house featured in Ghosthunters and owned by David Oman. The angle of the pan is similar to the view in the photograph linked above.

That's all I got.  Just something that caught my attention is all. Thought I would share.

Vest Time...

Chris Writes:

Charles Manson once possessed a biker style cut-off vest (a waistcoat), which has often been described more formally as his ceremonial vest.

It was literally a coat of many colors, made up from flowing multi-colored embroidery depicting scenes from the life, travels and adventures of the Family.

Across the shoulders were flowers on vines, and it included scenes from the Black Bus, Spahn Ranch and the desert. 

It was begun in 1967 by Mary Brunner and Lynette Fromme, featured embroidery work by all female members of the group, and was eventually destroyed by Manson in 1975 shortly before Fromme's attempt on President Ford.

In addition to the detailed embroidery the vest also had tassels made up from locks of hair from the women members of the Family (reputedly from during the Tate-LaBianca trial when the women shaved their heads).

Much is made of Bruce Davis wearing it in scenes from the Merrick Manson documentary, but it was also worn by Paul Watkins before his fall from grace with the Family. Much later in the early 1970s Paul Krassner, then researching a book on the Tate-La Bianca trial, was also offered to try it on during a visit to Fromme's apartment in Melrose Avenue, LA.

Paul Watkins wrote that from the moment he began to associate with the Family until the end of his relationship with them that there was always someone working on the vest. He described it as follows: "there were scenes of making love, riding horses, smoking dope, dancing, making music, going to the desert. In time the vest became a vibrant, living chronicle of events within the Family, all the way through the period of Helter-Skelter, the murders and the trials."

According to Watkins, the vest was worn by Manson during music and/or therapy sessions with the Family before being removed to allow the embroidery work on it to continue.

Eventually the vest was mailed by Fromme to Manson at San Quentin Prison, but within two days it had been cut up into many pieces and distributed by Manson amongst the inmates. Realizing he could not prevent it being taken from him, and to quell any envy directed towards him because of his possession of it, he had decided to both prevent its loss and share it amongst all.

The detailed embroidery told the story of the Family. In a most brilliant display of intricate, multi-colored scenes, as Manson's prison counselor Edward George related, it detailed scenes of sex and murder, images of snakes, spiders, wounded bodies, swastikas, black magic symbols harmoniously balanced with clusters of flowers, birds, butterflies, dancing children, musical notes, and natural panoramas.

Edward George, when telling Fromme the news, recounts a tearful telephone conversation with her ending abruptly with sobs as she put down the phone to terminate the call. How could he do such a thing she questioned, when the vest had been made to signify the devotion of those who loved him.

Upon being told of this most unusual reaction (Fromme questioning Manson's reasoning), Manson immediately penned Fromme a short note and the matter was never raised again. He wrote "it will always live in my mind, where no one can destroy it or take it away from me".

The following is a detailed description of Miss Fromme's most recent vest and it's imagery intent: 

"The vest evolved from two trees I wanted to keep so I put them on patches of material. Years later I was required to put these and other patches together to make of them a single "unfinished craft project", as that was my only chance of retaining the work during the Bureau of Prison's big sweep to reduce inmates' property.

"The two trees needed water so the river was a must, and putting it between them meant balance to me. A wildcat in the leaves, a deer in the rocks, a scorpion in the night, drawings, tracings and copies of photographs done by me and friends inside and out, were pieced together for about 10 years, and the work by me is sketchy because I never took the time to study art. My favorite figures and characters in all the embroidery I've seen are those that form themselves of abstracts and are different according to the viewer.

"The river reminds me of the Greenbrier in West Virginia where I went on my 'vacation' in l987. The rocks are like those where the roots of trees grow down its banks, exposed by erosion when the river floods. The river of embroidery leaps and eddies and the lady's feet are fish. She represents both air and water, for the living things of each need the other, but there is another lady at the bottom of the vest in a waterfall. She and all her offspring are the result of the mating of the sky and earth above her. So, of the four ladies she is Water, the other Air, another Trees and the other Animals, all necessary to the balance of Woman and of Earth".

Credits:

Photo#1 found on Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1971-SANDY-GOODE-BRENDA-MCCANN-KITTY-LUTESINGER-WIRE-PHOTO-/160864825798

Photos #2-13, and Fromme Quote Found Here:
http://themoldydoily.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/03/manson_family_t.html

Not the Cleavers...

Katie said (paraphrasing):
“There are a variety of people who want you to believe that the murders at Cielo Drive were due to the fact that Voytek was a drug dealer, and that Folger was funding it.  This is not true".  

"The reason for the Cielo Drive killings, is that Charlie was mad at Melcher“.

You have a right to your opinion.

As for me...
I haven't ruled-out the Frykowski/Drug angle.
There's enough "smoke" in that area, to make the theory worthy of consideration.

I agree, that Manson was probably pissed with Melcher… very pissed.
Manson has expressed anger towards Melcher on film (during interviews).

However…
Problem #1:  Melcher no longer resided at Cielo, and Manson knew it.
Problem #2:  The “Melcher bitterness" theory doesn't explain LaBianca.

Problem #3:
The "Melcher bitterness" motive, doesn't jive (very well) with the Crowe, Hinman, and Shea events.
The Crowe, Hinman and Shea crimes were committed for fairly pragmatic reasons, such as money issues, drug problems, and/or self-preservation (or, a combination of all three).
Those crimes were motivated by practical purposes beyond anger and bitterness.

Are we to conclude, that Cielo Drive was the ONLY location where "bitterness" was the sole motivator?
OK... it's possible... but, it doesn't fit "The Family's" MO (modus operandi) very well.

Modus operandi is a Latin phrase, meaning "method of operation". 
The expression is often used by police, to describe a criminal's habits and manner of working.
At the end of the day... killing for the sake of bitterness, doesn't fit "The Family's" track record. 

I'm playing "Devil's Advocate" here, to make a point.

My point:
If you dismiss the Frykowski/Drug Motive due to loopholes… you must also dismiss the “Melcher/Bitterness” angle, because neither theory is a complete puzzle.
In my opinion, dismissing either theory… especially the Drug Motive… is a grave (and somewhat naive) mistake.

None of the folks at Cielo Drive, deserved to be killed.
I repeat... none of the folks at Cielo, deserved to be killed.

BUT... having said that (twice)...

The idea that EVERYONE connected to Cielo Drive, was living a lifestyle, that was completely beyond reproach, is a bit of a fantasy.
This was Hollywood in the 60's.
It was a liberal place, at a liberal time.

To accurately examine this case... we must view the folks who frequented Cielo Drive (and "the times"), through a lense of reality.

Frykowski and Polanski were living questionable lifestyles... and consequently, they were probably interfacing with unsavory characters (at least, at times).
I also believe Sebring's behavior is somewhat questionable (in some respects), as well.
My assertions are underscored, by Polanski's lie detector test (see below).

During Polanksi's lie detector test, he points the finger at Frykowski and Sebring:

**He states (paraphrasing):
"Frykowski had been sniffing cocaine for at least two years".

**He also states (paraphrasing):
"If I had gotten rid of Frykowski, Sharon would still be alive".

**He also states (paraphrasing):
"Sebring had taken some kind of a (pause)... 'drug delivery job‘, or something".

**He also states (paraphrasing):
"Sebring was affluent by outward appearances, but he owed a large sum of money to his dentist.  He may have been struggling financially“.

**During the lie detector test, Polanksi also admits to "f#cking" two airline stewardesses within 48 hours of Sharon's death.  (Bear in mind... Sharon was carrying his unborn child, when she was brutally murdered).

**You can add the sodomy of Samantha Geimer to Polanski's character resume', as well.
She was thirteen years old.

**Also worth considering:
Folger's "association" with Frykowski, doesn't speak well of her judgement.
By most accounts, Voytek was a moocher, deadbeat, and drug user.

One has to wonder:
Just how "deeply" did Folger allow herself to get involved with Voytek (and his "activities")?
Up to her eyeballs maybe?

According to you (Katie)... Abigail told her therapist several times, that she regretted her involvement, with Voytek.
She communicated her regret several times.
That speaks volumes.
It seems to me, she was "in over her head".... and she wanted "OUT".

That Aside...
Is it completely far-fetched to assume, that Folger MAY HAVE lent Voytek money to finance his drug habit?
C'mon Katie... it's not only possible... it's probable.

How could Folger remain completely unaware of Voytek's drug use?
Was she living under a rock?
And furthermore... where else would Frykowski get money for drugs???

Bottom line:
This was Hollywood in the 60's.
At that place and time… things were wild.
To believe that every person associated with Cielo Drive was living completely beyond reproach, and could never be associated with any unsavory characters at any time, is tremendously naive.
People don't buy drugs from Nuns.
('Course… you could probably buy drugs from nuns too... in 1969 Hollywood)

For the record:
Let's not forget, Sharon and Jay traipsing around in their underwear… while Jay drank beer.
We have Sebring in a pair of “grape-smugglers‘ with his sausage clearly visible… and a very pregnant Sharon, sporting cotton panties.
Tell me that situation wasn't a bit "left of center". LOL

Alright... I know it's hot in California... but, c'mon... is it necessary to display your Johnson to a friend's pregnant wife? Ever heard of swim trunks dude? LOL

They give new meaning to the word "Godfather" in California.

Keep an open mind Katie... these folks weren't "The Cleavers".
Well... maybe if you throw-in a few Eddie Haskell's. LOL

I'm not saying anyone deserved to be brutally murdered... not even close
I'm simply saying, that SOME of these folks MAY HAVE "associated with", and consequently "pissed off", some unsavory characters (such as drug dealers).

If you party with drugs, you associate with drug dealers.
It's a direct correlation.

Never rule-out anything, until the fat lady sings.
This case isn't closed, until it's solved.
And until such time... everyone has clues to offer... even the victims.

Peace... LS

Charlene McCaffrey

Jay Sebring's Receptionist - Joel Rostau's Girlfriend

Photo Courtesy of Nikolas Schreck

Schreck Writes:

Putting a Face to the Name of One of the Tate-LaBianca Saga's Most Mysterious Figures 

''Readers of my book will recall the name Charlene McCaffrey. On April 13, 1969, McCaffrey, the receptionist at Jay Sebring's celebrity hair salon/drug dealing business was robbed at gunpoint by drug dealer Tex Watson along with her lover Joel Rostau. Rostau was Sebring's drug supplier and connection to the Genovese crime family. Watson tied McCaffrey to Rostau before stealing their drugs. The exact same method of operation he would use on August 8/9 1969 when he robbed drugs from Jay Sebring who was tied to Sharon Tate. Watson even used the same gun to commit both crimes. 

After the Cielo Drive murders, Charlene McCaffrey reported to the LAPD that her boyfriend Rostau had delivered a large quantity of drugs to Sebring at the Tate residence earlier on the night of the slayings, which my later research confirmed. 

I tried but was unable to track down any photo of McCaffrey, including an unsuccessful effort to secure her mug shot from 1969 from the LAPD, who were very uncooperative. 

Now my friend and ace researcher Gina Watkins-Judd, who was inspired by reading my book to dig further, has discovered that under another name, Charlene McCaffrey enjoyed a fairly high profile career in the film industry. Gina also tracked down some images of Charlene McCaffrey from various Hollywood productions. So that my readers can place a face to the name of this key player in the Cielo Drive case, here's McCaffrey as she looked in 1975 appearing on the TV crime series The Streets of San Francisco. Is it an in joke or a coincidence that McCaffrey was cast as a receptionist, the real-life role hip Hollywood knew her to play? My appreciation to Gina for sharing her research with us."

OO-EE-OO

If you recall... Sharon Tate had a yorkie named Sapirstein, that Frykowski accidently ran over and killed.  It's a really strange name for a dog.  

Word has it, Sharon named the dog after a character in the movie "Rosemary's Baby" (i.e., "Doctor Sapirstein" played by Ralph Bellamy).  The screenplay for the movie, was written by Roman Polanski..

Come to find out... Joel Rostau had a crime partner named Harvey Sapperstein.   Is it possible that Roman got the name "Sapperstein" (for his movie charcter) after meeting Rostau's crime partner?

The Original Article...