Friday, November 23, 2012

Charles Manson... Superstar?!?

 Heres a warm-up for the Nicholas Schreck Interview on StarCityRadio. (Nov. 25, 2012, 8PM)
 It's a Documentary Schreck made in 1989 called "Charles Manson Superstar".

 From Wikipedia:
"Charles Manson Superstar" is a documentary film about Charles Manson, directed by Nikolas Schreck in 1989.  Most of the documentary (the entire interview) was filmed inside San Quentin Prison. Schreck and Zeena narrated the segments while images were shown, and music played in the background. There was brief footage of Spahn Ranch, and a short clip of James M. Mason being interviewed about the Universal Order, and Manson. Olivier Messiaen's "Death and Resurrection"Bobby Beausoleil's "Lucifer Rising", Krzysztof Penderecki's "Apocalypsis", and Anton LaVey's "The Satanic Mass", and Manson's own songs "Clang Bang Clang" and "Mechanical Man" from the album LIE The Love and Terror Cult, were played during the film.

To Me, the film shows itself to be very much Pro-Manson, but I'll leave it up to the viewer to decide for themselves.
It does make me wonder about the objectivity of Schreck's new book on the case, which from what I've read, has some very interesting theories on the TLB murders.  I'm just wondering if he has some kind of evidence to back up his theories.
I'm hoping Brian Davis will ask Schreck to back up his theories with fact.  Whether you agree with Nikolas Schreck or not, it's certainly going to be an interesting Interview.


LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

StarCity Radio

LIVE 2-Hour show this Sunday evening (11/25) with special guest NIKOLAS SCHRECK, author of "THE MANSON FILE: Myth And Reality Of An Outlaw Shaman".

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thanks MattP!

MrPoirot said...

I had to uninstall the pdf reader for the Manson Myth due to it interfering with computer startup. Has anyone else had this issue?

katie8753 said...

Wow I can't listen to Charles Manson's ramblings for more than 1 minute. How could anyone listen to this crap for years?? HA HA.

Well the intro talks about August 8 & 9, to be bad years.

Well in listening to this video I find 2 errors in the first two minutes.

Ed Gein was born August 27, 1906, not August 8, 1907.

Also, the TLB murders were August 9 & 10, 1969, not August 8 & 9, 1969.

I can't wait to hear what else Nikolas has to say.

katie8753 said...

Rosemary did NOT sell drugs.

There is no proof of that whatsover.

She was in the millinery business. She also held a Real Estate License. She also invested in several stocks. Maybe Leno was putting his money in her name to avoid detection.

Who is to say that she didn't make money on her ventures? Who is to say that she didn't keep her money separate from Leno's?

Maybe she was going to leave him. She knew he was a gambler, he was stealing money from his company and that he might be tied up with the Mafia.

She might have been trying to save her funds to leave him. And have a comfortable life.

How would anyone know?

Unknown said...

Thats why i'm looking forward to this interview...If theres some facts behind the conjecture I'm all Ears.
And Mr p I don't have that problem,I'm using Adobe and its always worked fine for Me, I guess some other Folks have had Problems with the file freezing up on them but I don't know what reader they're using.

Unknown said...

Oh Shit...I spelled Nikolas wrong in the Post!

MrPoirot said...

Matt I typically use Acrobat pdf reader but the reader for pdf I downloaded for the Schreck book was Ilivd or something like those 5 letters. It also downloaded some other shit along with the new pdf reader so I deleted the reader and all associated files.(uninstalled)

MrPoirot said...

I was doing some reading on Schreck and his wife Zeena late tonight but I quit reading because I got scared.

I did find a comical anecdote about Zeena's upbring. Zeena's mother was a slightly naive jewish lady who thought Anton's devil stuff was more in line with "The Addams Family" type stuff.

beauders said...

i have read schreck's new book and find his theories plausible. i wish he had more sources but i believe his main source was manson himself. yes schreck did some pretty nasty things in the past such as the 8-8-88 celebration but he appears to have grown up and at least his book has many avanues we can all explore on forums/blogs.

Unknown said...

Its best you uninstalled...sometimes they try to sneak other stuff onto your pc through downloads.

sunset77 said...

The most interesting thing for me in the documentary "Charles Manson Superstar" is the pic at 39:16 that is purported to be Atkins knife found sticking out of the chair cushion. I've read that knife wasn't found until 2 months after the crimes and I've also read that pic is a fake and the knife was planted.

Finding accurate info about that pic and/or that knife is pretty difficult.

katie8753 said...

Sunset, Susan's knife was mentioned in the First Tate Homocide Report. They found it under a chair cushion:

#4, A "Buck", clasp type knife found under the seat cushion of an overstuffed chair, which was located in the living room seven feet south of the north wall of the living room and four feet east of the west wall of the living room. This chair is marked "C" in addendum number 7. For a list of fingerprint lifts and eliminations see addendum number 8 of this report.

I don't know if the picture is fake or not.

katie8753 said...

Matt I agree, this interview is going to be very interesting. I do hope that some facts are presented to support the theory or theories.

Unknown said...

We shall see

cielodrivecom said...

I haven't watched Superstar in a long time so Im not exactly sure which picture it is, but in pretty sure there is a photo of that in Bugliosi's book

Kimchi said...

Cielo Drive...on a personal note---thank you for posting all the tapes and photos you've acquired...

I can't wait until Monday for the Harold True tape...

All of them have been quite an "enlightenment" for me...

Thank you, thank you!!!

TomG said...

8 o'clock Sunday night. Sounds like a plan. See you all there!

katie8753 said...

Tom see you there!

It's gonna be a big crowd, so make sure you get there early to get a good seat! LOL.

Styxhexenhammer666 said...

This shall be an interview to remember.

Nikolas has done more for Manson than all others combined, perhaps.

TomG said...

Remember to choose USPS for all of your online shopping shipping!

sunset77 said...

Thanx for the info about the Buck knife Katie and Cielo. Yes, it is the knife in the pic in Buliosi's book I think, I haven't seen that book for many years.

If that police report is accurate, the knife was apparently found the next day.

Thanx Cielo for the great info you've posted, I'm looking forward to the True interview also, and the Schreck interview on Star City tonight.

TomG said...

If that buck knife was put up for sale on ebay or much do you think they could get for that bad boy?

I can open the bidding at $100.

katie8753 said...

Kimchi, wasn't that buck knife at that convention you went to? The one that had the old Ford and the rope Tex used? Or am I imagining things. LOL.

katie8753 said...

FYI: Lynyrd asked me to let anyone who is awaiting an e-mail from him to please be patient. He's having some serious computer problems he's got to work out. I'm hoping he can get it fixed today. :)

Kimchi said...

Hi Katie ...I don't remember seeing the buck knife, the fork from la bianca was what I remember most...I'll have to look through my photos...I took pix of everything...

TomG said...

How much would that fork sell on ebay or supernaught?

I would open the bid at $100.

Let's play hardball, yall.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Kimchi. Maybe it's the fork I'm remembering.

Tom...SOLD! It's yours! LOL.

TomG said...

What am I going to do with a fork?

Can I have my $100 back?

katie8753 said...

Tom, maybe you can sell it to "Kern-Wink-el". She can put it in the lunch box with her brain. HA HA.

TomG said...

I gotta picture of Big Patty at CIW that I should send you.

TomG said...

See if you can pick out our gal. She's got a dog sitting in front of her.,r:1,s:0,i:91

katie8753 said...

Which one is the dog? HA HA. Just kidding.

For some reason, the older she gets, the more she reminds me of Ma Kettle.

TomG said...

And if you forgive me, as I have always wanted to champion the cause of the least among us..

A Darwinism award goes out to these women, as they really shouldn't reproduce.

TomG said...

My favorite line of all time.....Mary Brunner saying "You gotta be kidding me?"

Didn't Mary Brunner and Catherine Share cut thru the cell bars with a blade they hid up their whatcha callit?

katie8753 said...

Tom, I think they just used their witchy spirits to open the door.

leary7 said...

Tom, I love Mary's flippancy too. That is one of my favorite clips.

I am gonna skip the hoopla tonight. I am old and tired and just flat out don't like Schreck and so as such am unwilling to let him or his ideas be a part of my life. I suppose that could be called anything from wimpiness to bigotry, but truly one of the pleasures of becoming a grumpy old man is that you can tell the parts of the world you don't like to piss off.

But I would ask this one question of everyone who will listen tonight. I asked it of Lynyrd recently - when does motive become moot?
I mean if you accept that Lizzie Borden whacked her stepmom and dad, does it matter if she did so because of financial desire or lesbian fallout or whatever?
If you accept that Oswald did it, and 49 years later there is still no solid proof of a second gunman, then does it matter if Lee did if out of rage or ego or delusions of grandeur? He did it because he was an asshole, pure and simple.
So finally, if you believe Charlie told Tex to go 'chainsaw massacre' on Cielo and Waverly, 44 years later does it really matter what specific prickly burr was up Charlies ass on 8/8/69? Race war, drug burn, robbery, Melcher payback, Mafia hit, etc etc.
Would the pubic care, or would history change if somehow it could be proved that the murders were done for Reason Two or Reason Three?
It's like a blog world parlor game.
No question the killers were caught and will die in jail.
And for 99.99% of us no question that Manson was the force behind the killings. And he will die in jail.
Manson will take his delusions and denials to the grave with him because they are his only currency, the only thing that keeps him relevant.
I'm just sayin...out of intellectual curiousity it is fine to pursue motive theories. But a dose of reality should be part of the dialogue too.
I loved the line in Friends where Joey says, "It's like a cow's opinion, you know - mooooot".

MrPoirot said...

Now he's picking on cows.

leary7 said...

Picking? Me? Naw, I say I say, just offering up an unsolicited, and most certainly minority opinion at least here, that maybe after all this time the question of motive has become somewhat moot.

If Lizzie did it she did so because she was a bitter bitch. And if Lee Harvey did it alone he did so because he was an asshole in a thousand different ways - including beating his wife.
And if Manson did in fact give Tex the orders to kill then I am comfortable with the explanation that he did so because he too was/is an asshole galore - just a delusional miserable prick.
It works for me.

MrPoirot said...

I was making a cow/political correctness joke.

cielodrivecom said...

Thanks Kimchi and Sunset, glad you enjoy them. I'm real happy these materials are no longer buried in a box collecting dust.

Unknown said...

Unlistenable...sound keeps cutting out,player keeps buffering.
I bailed at 9:20,Brian if You read this could you upload this to the Archive Page asap?

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Matt...

I gave it my best shot too, but with the audio issues, I just couldn't stay focused.
I left around 9:10.
Every time things started getting good, the sound went off.
So, very unfortunate.
There were probably just too many people loading the server.

Hopefully the podcast will be available soon.

Kimchi said...

Me too..kind of disappointing after getting revved up for this...will really be looking forward to the podcast...

Ajerseydevil said...

Katie I have my doubts about R,L. Not being
Involved in some for of illegal activity she had an estate valued at 2.6 million dollars in
1969 roughly 7 million today seems an awful lot of money for a dress shop owner
I just recently read Shrecks original MANSON
File from 1989 was very unimpressed not sure if I'm willing to fork over 85 dollars to a racist Satanist

katie8753 said...

Hi William.

I can't imagine what illegal activity Rosemary was involved in, raking in money hand over fist, and no one on earth knew about it.

The LaBianca police report is quite lengthy and the police discovered a lot of unsavory things about Rosemary & Leno. But I haven't seen any mention of Rosemary making money illegally.

As far as Schreck's book goes, if it was available in a bookstore here in the US, I might purchase it. Can't say.

I too am looking forward to the podcast. It's unfortunate that the big holes in audio were a big stumbling block staying focused on what he was saying.

katie8753 said...

Update: Brian is going to try and have the podcast available tonight. There were so many people tuned in that the server couldn't handle it, causing the audio delays.

Thanks Brian! :)

johnnyseattle said...

"I can't imagine what illegal activity Rosemary was involved in, raking in money hand over fist, and no one on earth knew about it."

that's the deal with illegal money activity, smart folks -like Rosemary- keep it quiet.

her dress shop was in a strip mall. not likely to have that type of cash flow. and $2 million THEN is like $12 million today.

katie8753 said...

Johnny, if you're selling something, whether legally or illegally, you've got to have a buyer to make money.

What happened to the buyer(s) for this supposed "illegal business"? Did they all disappear in Big Daddy Heaven on August 10, 1969?

Not one person on this earth came forward to say that Rosemary was selling something/anything illegally.

People were coming out of the woodwork to rat on the Manson Family. Not one single solitary person told ANYONE that Rosemary sold them something illegally.

That doesn't make any sense. And as such, is highly unlikely.

katie8753 said...

The only secret that's ever kept is one that's never told.

And if you're selling illegal substances/goods to varied's not a secret anymore.

Unknown said...

Even if She was that might not have anything to do with the murders.
It might...but it might not.
There is such a thing as coincidence, unless a link can be proven its all supposition.
Boy I hope He gets that Podcast up soon.

Unknown said...

The people She was buying from and selling to might not want to make that known.
Supposition again but they might have been the Ones that wanted Her gone.

Ajerseydevil said...

very good points made Matt

katie8753 said...

Maybe she had a still in the backyard and she was selling that "XXX" moonshine whiskey and saved millions by avoidin' those revenuers. HA HA.

MrPoirot said...

Schreck stopped just short of claiming that William Garretson was really a mastermind mafia millioniare dequised as a dog sitter. I gguess their are things even Schreck won't claim.....................nah-h-h.

Kimchi said...

Putting my 2 cents in, on the Harold True tapes, the name Leonard Posilla kept coming up...Harold seemeed to avoid it...

Also, the property on the right of the la Bianca's was brought up a few times...not much info on it except it was donated to the Catholic Church...

I know a guy that rented the la bianca house in the '70s....he was always freaked out by the stuff that went on at the "big mansion" on the right...he told me some stories but they are best left at just that...stories...

cielodrivecom said...

Hi Kimchi - Look up Earle C. Anthony, it's his house you're talking about.

johnnyseattle said...

the Shreck tapes are up over on Star City
most excellent sound quality.

johnnyseattle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
johnnyseattle said...

"I can't imagine what illegal activity Rosemary was involved in, raking in money hand over fist, and no one on earth knew about it."

No ONE knew she had $2 million either...her strip mall dress shop wasn't so full of customers that people thought she could turn that kind of coin. have you ever heard of any unique Rosemary Labianca designs? No, her dress shop bought wholesale and sold retail, did alterations, etc. Ir was located in the same strip mall that the Gateway Market was in. Not exactly Rodeo Drive. And she had a partner to split the proceeds with.
You think she cashflowed enough to bank $2 million?

Shreck discusses how the LAPD were surprised to learn that the LaBianca house phones were tapped.

I know you are too stubborn to buy the book and read it. I get that.

katie8753 said...

Johnny, how does having money = selling drugs?

How are you going from Point "A" to Point "B"? Are you basing this on factual information, or just assuming it?

Like I've said before, maybe Leno was hiding money in Rosemary's accounts. I don't know.

If the police were suspicious of the amount of money she had, why not examine her financial records or tax returns. You don't report illegal money on a tax return.

As far as I know, the phone taps were for Leno, not Rosemary.

leary7 said...

I've always wanted to ask this - has there ever been any developed speculation that Rosemary could have been in the sex business in some capacity. A high end call girl service perhaps? I've read that she was rather sexually adventurous herself. Would that explain the infamous 'black book' item?

johnnyseattle said...

having money does not necessary equal drugs.

having acquired a huge amount of money in a relatively short period of time begs the question.

yes yes yes, of course we would like to see the tax returns and financial statements.

the phone taps may have been for Leno but we don't know that for sure. it may have been for both.

after you listen to the podcast, i hope you consider buying the book.

katie8753 said...

Leary, LOL.

Rosemary LaBianca: High end dress shop owner and Real Estate Agent by Day....Brothel Madame by night...


katie8753 said...

Johnny, I haven't had time to listen to the podcast. Been busy the last few days. Thanks Brian for expediting that podcast. I know you worked overtime for that. Many thanks!! :)

Johnny, you said in an earlier post that Rosemary's dress shop was just in a strip mall.

Back in the 60's, the strip malls were new. They were the up and coming thing. You've probably seen pictures of what it looks like now...slumlord stuff. But back in its day, the strip malls were packed. Prior to that, you had to go downtown to the finer stores, look for a parking space, maybe even pay for parking and it was a hassle. The strip malls were closer to neighborhoods and had easier access, with the same fine clothing they sold downtown. So don't brush Rosemary's store off as a "Goodwill Center". She sold high quality high end clothing.

Now...correct me if I'm wrong...but didn't Schreck say in his book that Rosteau went to meet Sebring on August 8th at Cielo Drive to drop off a large drug shipment, but he was unable to because his "supplier" was out of town? The supplier I'm assuming was Rosemary??

Leno & Rosemary didn't leave town to go to Lake Isabella until August 9th to retrieve their boat.

There are too many "facts" that are not right in this book.

I will listen to the podcast with an open mind when I get a chance. But I won't accept opinions and assumptions not based on factual events.

katie8753 said...

BTW on the video Charles Manson Superstar, Schreck says that the Waverly Drive house was formerly owned by Walt Disney.

It was not the Waverly Drive house Disney owned, but the house they lived in previously at 4053 Woking Way. Disney used to own that home and it was a virtual palace. But the LaBiancas couldn't afford it, so they moved into Mama's house on Waverly Drive.

johnnyseattle said...

why do you think anyone else would accept opinions and assumptions not based on factual events?

yep, that decades old Charles Manson Superstar got the Disney House wrong. Along with others who recited that factoid. Anything else in error?

you say the LaBianca's couldn't afford it? imagine that, but didn't she own that 'high end' dress store that was making all that money?

Rosemary may not have 'left town' until the 9th but that doesn't mean she was easily reachable on the 8th if Rosteau was trying to get ahold of her. When he went looking for her she may not have been around.

okay, as to all those factual errors in book after you read you can discuss 'em.

katie8753 said...

Johnny, I love ya darlin' and I hope you know that. I really do. No matter what we believe, I think you're a great guy!

I'm not going to argue anymore. I'm gonna hit the hay because I've got a full day tomorrow. We will continue this tomorrow or this weekend.

Night! :)

MrPoirot said...

Is there any proof that "The Mafia" did in fact visit Paul Watkins and put him up in a fancy hotel? Remember this is the part where Crocket called Watkins and told him to get out of there. Why would Crockett of all people know anything about the mafia unless of course this is the Death Valley branch of the mafia?
Maybe it's just me but I always roll my eyes when someone blames something on "The Mafia".
Remember the Archie Bunker episode when a nice mafia gentleman came to Archie'
s door and told him to keep quiet?
Frankly, I never saw anything bad about the mafia. We got all those great Jimmy Cagney movies about the mafia? The mafia never messed with anybody but other mafia members. They would have shunned Charlie anyhow because he talked to much.

Unknown said...

MrPoirot said...

Thanks Matt.
Poor Archie had visits from the cops and the mmmm.... at the same time. And all for making up stories. I wonder if Schreck got two visits?

Unknown said...

Just listened to the Podcast last Night and it was just as interesting as I thought it would be.
Schrecks Theories tie up some loose ends if They're true but at the same time Most of the Facts seem to come from Manson Himself and from People Who don't want to be identified (is Mr. x Robert evans?).
While Manson Himself is probably the only Person who knows the real story of what Happened do I trust Him to tell Anyone the Absolute Truth?
I'd love to sit down and read the whole thing but its too expensive for my right now.
Maybe It will end up in a local library someday and I can read it for free.

johnnyseattle said...

Matt Prokes
That is one thing that Nickolas Shreck is doing for people who want to research the case. He is arranging to put this book in a number of Libraries.

He is also going to be releasing a US version at some point. The purpose of releasing this current version is to get it in the hands of serious readers of the case.

From Cielo Drive came a great term: 'Helter Skeptic.'

"...The first comprehensive study of Manson's life, times, crimes, and thought, this is the ultimate guide to the Manson mysteries, portraying the human being behind the media-created monster's many masks.
Drawing on police evidence suppressed during Manson's trial, Schreck exposes the "Helter Skelter" legend as one of the twentieth century's greatest cover-ups, unveils the hidden Mafia drug-dealing background of the "Manson murders" and traces the underworld connections linking the victims to their killers. The author's recent conversations with Manson and others directly involved in the psychedelic era's apocalypse allow the true story kept secret for decades to be told at last.
Since its publication, The Manson File - Myth And Reality Of An Outlaw Shaman has inspired a grassroots movement known as "Helter Skeptic" which aims to spread public awareness of the book to dismantle the "Helter Skelter" theory argued by prosecuting attorney Vincent Bugliosi."

katie8753 said...

Thanks MattP. I listened to a large portion of the Schreck interview today and I have to say that the man is very well spoken articulate and has a good vocabulary. Things I like in a man. HA HA.

And he does have some very interesting hypotheses, but unfortunately he can't back them up. At least not on the interview. I'm assuming not in the book either.

To say someone came to him with vital information regarding these murders (someone who hasn't revealed this to anyone else I'm assuming) and he can't divulge their identities isn't valid proof to me.

If I don't agree with his assessments, it's because I haven't seen any valid proof of them. If there was any tangible evidence of this new information, I'd grab onto it like a bulldog with a bone. LOL. But there are inconsistencies.

If the Cielo Drive murders were just Tex's "mistake" why did 5 people end up being shot, stabbed and bludgeoned beyond recognition? That doesn't sound like a mistake to me.

If Charlie didn't order the murders at Cielo Drive, why did he ask if they had remorse when they got back?

If Cielo Drive was all about a drug burn, why is it that none of the 3 girls have said that? They have all described the same thing: they climbed the wall, entered the house, asked for money, then started killing. Not one of them has mentioned trying to score drugs. If that was the point of the visit to Cielo Drive that night, wouldn't one of them say that?

As far as the LaBianca's are concerned, I still don't see any evidence that Rosemary was selling drugs. Some relative (who isn't related to Rosemary's family??? I don't get that) tells him that Rosemary was selling acid and she gave him her contacts? If this relative knew this information when she was murdered, why not tell the police about it? Why hide it? And why was there no evidence in their home, her car or her office that she was a big time drug dealer? I think there would be some evidence.

Jay Sebring's hair styling business was a front for drugs? Jay Sebring had gone International with his styling products. I really don't think it was a front. His styling products are still are on the market today.

And one more question: If Rosemary & Jay were such big drug dealers, why was she rich and he was always broke?

katie8753 said...

Johnny thanks for that info. If this book can be purchased in the US, I will seriously consider purchasing it.

BTW, when the murders occurred in August of 1969, the only victim I had even heard of was Jay Sebring.

I had never heard of any of the others, including Sharon Tate.

In August of 1969, even in the podunk town I lived in, there was a big buzz about the Sebring haircut. It was all the rave.

Unknown said...

Schreck certainly doesn't sound like a nut does He?
I'm trying to leave what I feel about his Beliefs(or his former Beliefs)at the Door and just concentrate on what Hes saying.
Like You Katie I sure think one of the Girls would have said something if the Murders went down the way Schreck says they did.
Maybe not back in the 70s but why not now...what do they have to lose at this point?

Unknown said...

I think most of us have been "Helter Skeptics" for many Years now.

katie8753 said...

Exactly Matt. What Schreck did in the past is no concern to me. It doesn't enter into the equation.

But I don't get why none of the girls have ever said anything about a drug burn. Not even Susan Atkins on her death bed.

johnnyseattle said...

hey Good News. the Saint is coming to Star City Radio!

Sunday, December 02, 2012
8:00pm Eastern Time.

Guest: "The Saint"- St. Circumstance

johnnyseattle said...

I like the Saint, can't wait to hear him speak on his impressions of Shreck.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Johnny! I Like Saint too! :)

MrPoirot said...

It took Schreck 25 years to get it all wrong.
Rostau had no relationship with Sebring. It was Rostau
s flighty GF who knew what both Rostau and Sebring were up to individually. She then connects them in her mistaken reality. Rostau knew Frykowski but not Sebring. Schreck takes the two of them and ties them together and also enrolls them both into the mafia. Just for fun he then enrolls Rosemary into the mafia as well. After all, Leno was Italian wasn't he? Hint, Hint, nudge, nudge. Italians are all mafia aren't they?
I love the part about Rosemary and Leno being ridden to the Gateway store safe and back to their Waverly home.Somehow Leno is broke and in debt from gambling but yet he has a safe full of money. Schreck then escalates Joe Dorgan's status. As a straight Satan member this implies that Dorgan..............well Schreck is off and running and never stops. He has the FBI, CIA, Mafia and Straight Satans all running around Hollywood like the Keystone cops. Oops, I mentioned the Keystone Cops. I shouldn't have done that because Schreck will entwine them also into the murders. You have to be careful mentioning things to Schreck for he makes everything cummulative no matter how seperate they are as individuals. All the murders in Hollywood history are all one big uninterrupted single crime drama with everyone knowing everyone. Schreck doesn't know when to back off. He's a snowball going down hill in Hollywood only it doesn't snow in Hollywood!
Oh and I forgot.....the boat that Leno left on the roadside. He was going to put the boat up but got murdered while he was reading the paper. Duh!

johnnyseattle said...

Interesting Mr P, you say that it was Charlene McCaffrey Rastau's live in Girlfriend and also the Receptionist/Secretary for Jay Sebring gets it all wrong. She knew them both very very well. One well enough to be his live in girl and the other to work with on a daily basis.

How do YOU know she got it wrong? Just asking.

johnnyseattle said...

Mr P

and by the way, you got the part wrong about Shreck and Leno's boat.

in regards to the Store safe scenario, you only have that partially roughed out. you're leaving stuff out.

i know someone as careful as you wouldn't want to lead readers astray.

but good to know you have purchased the book.

Anonymous said...

This schrek deal has really struck a nerve with some people.....
Helter Skelter seems a fairytale with mind control and spining watches and reattached weiners and reviving dead birds.....and on and on......a drug burn sounds more likely considering everything else going on in the vicinity of all involved.
Not to be morbid, but when all these sources finally kick the can, we can all find out with whom Mr. Schrek was conversing.

johnnyseattle said...

i fully agree Josh

Helter Skelter or Helter Skeptic....I'll take the latter at this point. we all know 'who dunnit' it is the 'why dunnit' that fascinates me.

one thing that Shreck points out in that podcast, there is a world of difference between someone who sits behind a keyboard -like myself and others- and those that have gone out and done the first person interviews with former and current manson members, retired police officers, show biz types who knew the victims/manson/, the underworld types who knew rastau et al.
Shreck spent over 25 years on this. he will be the first to tell you that he still doesn't have all the answers. what the book represents is what he has found to be true to a point BUT that further research needs to be done.

i just hope that those who style themselves as researchers/writers will take the opportunity to go forth and continue forward.

unless of course you are a Helter Skelter type. then the case is solved and all questions have been answered.

what the heck did DA Aaron Stovitz mean when he said to Col Scott circa 2004, and lets give the devil his due here that was an excellent interview:

"“Hey Son, your interest is grand, and you aren’t wrong about Manson being wronged, at least legally, but before you go get too stressed, ask yourself- don’t you think he’s happier now that Vince made him who he is?”

MrPoirot said...

johnnyseattle said...
Interesting Mr P, you say that it was Charlene McCaffrey Rastau's live in Girlfriend and also the Receptionist/Secretary for Jay Sebring gets it all wrong. She knew them both very very well. One well enough to be his live in girl and the other to work with on a daily basis.

How do YOU know she got it wrong?(end quote)

Poiroit replies:

Because Rostau stated in police interview he didnt know Sebring, that he only knew who he was. Rostau said he knew Frykowski quite well in that same interview. Ms McCaffrey assumed Sebring knew Rostau because she knew both when in fact they didnt know each other as friends. That relationship never had time to develope because of the murder of Sebring.

I will not buy Shreck's book because he enjoys creating the fantastical. He is too casual with facts and links things that are seperate and is prone to be grandiose. But I'll keep my mind open. If you believe him fully then fine. Maybe you know things I don't. I still have my eyes open and my ears listening.

and yes I left things out. I wasn't writing a 1000 page book.

johnnyseattle said...

Mr P
First off, i do not believe everything in the Shreck book. I believe some of it, some of it I will accept on faith, and other parts I need to see the source documents or independent verification. And lets be honest here, many reputable non fiction writers -award winning types- use un-named sources as support for their stories. If over used or if the author hasn't been proven credible in his earlier work then the story suffers. As long as it is labeled as such, i have no issue with it.

So you mean to tell me that Joel Rastau only tells the truth when talking to the Police?

As an honest broker of information, shouldn't you also put in why -per Shreck- that Joel Rastau had a very good reason to downplay his connection with Jay Sebring? A very logical reason stemming from a real fear of one day ending up with a 22 slug in the head and stuffed in the trunk of a car parked outside of LaGuardia Airport might make it seem a whole lot easier to downplay certain relationships. A limited hangout, ie admit to the Voytek relationship but deny the shadier one? A fear that came to fruition? Anyone doubt that Rastau was involved as a drug dealer and had underworld connections?

Now you mention in detail that you have issues with Shreck's credibility and then in the same post you say your mind is open? How can that be? It wouldn't be with me.

i'll give you a for instance. now that i have heard both Alissa Statman and Stephen Kay I have come to the conclusion that Alissa was wrong. It's not just a 'she said and he said' standoff situation. If it had happened as she wrote, Stephan Kay would have mentioned it forever more in subsequent parole hearings to show that Krenwinkle was not suitable for parole during the 80's and 90's. He never did. Moreover, the story made him look heroic as Statman told it. Given that, the fact that he stills categorically denies it happened tells me in fact that it didn't happen. Which probably explains why she felt on safe ground to write the story as she did.
AS SUCH, i would have a hard time giving her the open mind treatment.
So can you tell me that given your feels toward Shreck you are going to give him a true 'open mind' or has your mind already been made up. if so, that's fine. Free country, all of that. But don't tell me you have an open mind...
By the way, I love the moniker Hercules Poiret. It is not lost on me.

MrPoirot said...

Rostau's part in the murders is overplayed by Schreck. He was not mafia. Sebring not mafia. Rosemary, Leno not mafia. Bruce Davis not IRA member or associate. Schreck mislabels almost everyone.

Why do you mention Statman? Was she mafia too?

johnnyseattle said...

Ms Statman mafia? nah, Mr P. I was just giving you a for instance -and my rationale- of an author who I would need more from to give me credible information.
So if you haven't read the book I have a hard time understanding how you can disclaim it unless you have preconceived notions.
And I want to make clear, I didn't mean to come off snarky. I have read many of your posts before and I respect you. So let me get that out there. You are one of the good ones.
Take care buddy and hope to see you around here and Star City.

MrPoirot said...

Johnny I had listened to Schreck on the podcast several times and will again. I did enjoy his interview. My opinion of him is not the be all, end all nor am I the most knowlegable. If you enjoy Schreck's book then fine. That's why most of us are following the blogs. I wouldn't follow this stuff if it wasn't enjoyable but i'm still trying to get the money to get Hendrickson's book. Maybe we should get up a group in here and all go in on the higher priced tomes.

johnnyseattle said...

I agree with your sentiment 100 percent.
At one point, Brian had a midweek evening sewing circle of sorts.