Tuesday, June 25, 2013

The Church where Jay Sebring's Funeral was Held

One of our esteemed readers, recently visited the church where Jay Sebring's funeral was held.  I decided to share these beautiful photos with everyone.  (The photos were taken, just last week) 

Following the current-day photos of this wonderful church... I've also included a video from Jay's actual funeral "back in the day".  It's a cool "today" VS "yesterday" comparison.  Amazingly, the church looks almost exactly the same!  They must have a fantastic caretaker! LOL

The funeral footage was uploaded to Youtube by HelterSkeleterForum.com.  Thanks HSF!  Great footage!


LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Venus will be here in 5-4-3-2....


LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

The person who donated these photos, would like to remain anonymous... and doesn't want any credit.

I'd like to thank him/her personally on behalf of everyone, anyway.
These photos are beautiful.
What a great donation to the blog...

That's a really nice place.
All that flagstone must have cost a mint!
All those walkways and rolling walls of stone are BIG BUCKS!
Hire a mason, and get a quote.
You'll see what I mean! LOL

katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

In case anyone wants to know:

The church is located in Forest Lawn, Glendale, Ca

Marliese said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Marliese said...

Katie, Steve McQueen is at 01-31-51 with his wife, Neile...she's in a white hat. It's barely an instant, but you'll see a quick glimpse of him on Neile's right...look for her hat. :)

katie8753 said...

Hi Marliese!! Thanks!!! I'll look again. :)

Marliese do you know if the Tate Family was at the funeral? I can't remember.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...




Thanks for that keen observation!

Marliese said...

It's barely an instant, Katie. There are two women one after another with white hats, but Neile's the first, and it's real fast...right after the girl with long blonde hair.

I can't remember either...about the Tate Family. :)

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

The description under the video (on Youtube) reads:

"Mourners at Jay Sebring's funeral, including John & Michelle Phillips. Note how diverse the mourners are. Different religions, colours, age."

Marliese said...

Hi, Lynyrd! Thanks. :)

katie8753 said...

Thanks Marliese. I played it 3 times and finally caught it. You can see Neile clearly but I had to really squint to see Steve.

I didn't see John & Michelle Phillips either but it's kind of hard to recognize people. The film isn't that sharp and the camera isn't really on their faces much.

Lynyrd, I noticed that diversity of people at the funeral. I'm guessing some of these people were his customers???

I'm thinking that Roman went to Jay's funeral, but the Tate family didn't attend. I could definitely be wrong on that one.

Venus, we need your expertise!! :)

starship said...

Excellent post! I believe we see RP but only from the back surrounded by an entourage...I also saw Henry Fonda walking out with Kirk Douglas, and the Phillipses.

But the best part is how the camera man starts off by focusing on the breasts and then the butt of the lovely young woman with the dude in uniform. Oh what those camera guys must have gotten away with when there was almost no such thing as a live news feed...

Marliese said...

Katie, John and Michelle are are 01.32.30...right after the woman with her hand up to her face. Michelle looks like a little kid. Her long hair isn't as blonde as usual.

katie8753 said...

Hi Starship, I noticed that. That cameraman was trying REALLY hard to look up her short skirt. LOL.

You've got a much keener eye than I do. I just can't make heads nor tails of those folks.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Marliese. I wish I could put the film in slo-mo and watch it to catch more of a glimpse of who all was there. Did anyone see Roman?

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...


Venus said...

LOLOL at Lynyrd's 1st comment! I'm here, I'm here!!!!!!

I've seen some pix of the church before, but there are some great additions here that I've never seen. Kudos to the anonymous donor and a big thank you!

And, now let's play another game of "connections." Jay lived in the house where Jean Harlow had lived. Jean Harlow's 1937 funeral was held in this same church!

CarolMR said...

OK,now I'm confused. I thought when Jay's body was sent back to Michigan he had a funeral Mass there. Or was that just the burial?

katie8753 said...

Venus, I read that Jean Harlow was buried there. Another co-inky-dink.

katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Venus said...

Jay had 2 funerals. One was in CA and the other one was in Michigan for the family and friends who were unable to attend the CA one.

St. Circumstance said...

On topic:

I love what you did to the blog and this is an excellent post with a great video- I love to get authentic looks at those times- my favorite part of all of this ...

Off Topic:

I wouldn't tell you this has always been my favorite site because it wouldn't be the truth...

but it would be honest to tell you that my favorite people come here, and I have told L/S that privately for some time, so even if it seems like I am trying to suck up right now- I promise what I am saying is not new...

when I see Marliese and Katy, and Venus and Bobby and Starship and Carol and the rest of you all getting along and being so nice to each other it makes me feel like a real ( fill in your favorite) because I never really tried to belong or fit in.... I have acted like I grace you with my occasional presence and god that sucks.

sending pics of myself and making arrogant comments...

sigh. I get what I deserve most of the time. I have had many chances to settle down and belong somewhere. I thought I could be bigger and rise above all of it. yet the same shit drags me down time after time. I should learn quicker for such a smart ass know it all huh? I ask for most of my problems and I have to live with that... and I do.

I guess I am just saying how nice it is to see all of you respect each other and have such fun and civil conversations...

A really tremendous group here for sure

I really like all of you people and that is to include Prokes-Sunset and Kimchi as well. I am glad I can still come here, and I just want you all to know that I appreciate every one of you! You have always been nothing but nice to me and I am sorry if I act like a thoughtless dueche sometimes..

I am a deuche- but not a thoughtless one lol

today my thoughts are with and of all of you...


CarolMR said...

Thanks, Venus and Katie. Venus, do you know the name of the Michigan church where his second funeral was held? The cemetery is Most Holy Sepulchre.

Venus said...

Saint, that was a sweet message! ((((hugs))))

Carol, no, I don't know the name of the funeral home in Michigan.

katie8753 said...

St. Circumstance...take your shoes off and come on in....the water's just fine! LOL.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Saint.

You will always be welcome here... and it's always a pleasure having you.

You wear your heart on your sleeve, and you're a bit sensitive.
But, those aren't necessarily bad qualities for a human being.

My advice:
Be yourself, and participate where your talents are most appreciated.
That's the best advice, that I can give anyone.

Every blog, forum and website has a different feel, emphasis and priority base.
And for that reason... there isn't a single blogger (in cyberspace) who is equally liked and appreciated at every location.
Not one.
You can take that to the bank.

To be liked everywhere by everyone, you'd have to have no opinion on anything.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

And at that point... what's the point?

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...


Venus said...

Nicely said, Lynyrd.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...


Last night's hockey game, was a f#cking blow.

I still haven't recovered.

I didn't mind losing to the Blackhawks.
They're a great hockey team.
They play hard, and they play fair.
In fact, with Bergeron out... I actually expected the Blackhawks to beat us.

It's the WAY we lost.

Gawd... the Agony!

I ask you fine readers:
How the heck do you lose a hockey game, when you're AHEAD by a goal, with 50 seconds left??

Statistically... what are the odds??
Ten thousand to one?
A million to one?

This is worse than the Bill Buckner debacle in 1986 against the NY Mets.
(With one out left in the entire World series, Buckner let a very slow grounder roll between his legs at first base).
Oh, the agony!
A girl scout could have made the play.
All Buckner had to do, was pick the freakin' ball up, and step on first base... and the World Series was OVER!

Long story short... the NY Mets went on, to win the series.

We're known for our dramatic wins, and our ridiculously (almost statistically impossible) losses.
We set records on both ends.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

OK, my rant is over.

Back to the topic.

Venus said...

An earlier question was asked--if the Tate family attended this funeral. There used to be some footage on youtube that showed several people sitting outside. One of them looked exactly like Paul Tate, was dressed the same, had the same sunglasses. Just going by that, it looked like he was there, but no proof can be offereed unless that footage turns up again.

Unknown said...

Have we been elevated from Inbreds???
Have to disagree with last night being worse than Buckner.
Honestly I can't think of a bigger disaster in sports than game 6 in 1986.
Now if we hadn't won in 2011 i'd be spitting fire but as it is it doesn't really bother me at all,we lost to a good team better than ours really to me that makes all the difference.
i'd be waaay more pissed if we'd lost game 7 at home to toronto but what a night that was...we swept the penguins who were planning their parade months ago(love it when teams get what they deserve).
At the end of the regular season would you have expected them to get as far as they did the way they were playing?
We'll be back next year...no worries.
Hats off to Bergeron-broken ribs, separated shoulder,nose injury and still came to play-a true Bruin!

Unknown said...

And Saint always good to see you round these parts...if anything i think you're too hard on yourself.
Enjoy,be who you are...its only the internet!
Also don't get into protracted arguments with the col if you can help it-a no win proposition even if you're in the right.
I hope brian posts the show from last night i missed it and i'm very curious to hear what was said.

Unknown said...

And saint I really enjoy the posts you started on the 'other' site.
You put your own personality into them and they get me thinking more than most stuff i read about the case.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hey Matt.

I agree 100% with everything you're saying... I just wish the Blackhawks had scored those two goals earlier in the game.

If the Blackhawks had us beat earlier in the game, it would have been an easier pill to swallow.

TWO goals with a minute left?
That's a tough one.

After the first goal... I got up to use the bathroom... and I heard more screaming before I reached the shitter.

I thought:
NO WAY......... it CAN'T be!
But, it WAS! LOL
The Blackhawks had scored AGAIN, within 17 seconds! LOL
What are the odds?

If I had it my way... we would have won last night in Boston... and then lost in Chicago 6-2.

If things went down that way... I wouldn't even be discussing this right now. LOL

Unknown said...

Thats sports...
Pretty funny when it happens to Toronto but....

Anonymous said...

It's OK Saint! Relax. They do seem to get along well. I'm still a little gun-shy from last month, but I'll start posting more.

Anonymous said...

It's OK Saint! Relax. They do seem to get along well. I'm still a little gun-shy from last month, but I'll start posting more.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I posted "LOL" in response to Prokes' comment... and Grump slipped-in with a serious post.

Sorry Grump.

"LOL" retracted... : )

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hey Grump!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Yeah Matt...

I guess you're right.

In sports, it all depends who's on the losing end (literally).

If the Bruins had WON the Stanley Cup in that fashion (with 60 seconds left), I'd be ecstatic. LOL

Kudos to the Blackhawks... they're an excellent team.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Venus. Hi Matt!! Hi Mr. Grump!!! :)

katie8753 said...

I love those two poochies making whooppie! LOL.

Anonymous said...

katie8753 said...
I love those two poochies making whooppie! LOL.

That picture was taken at Ballarat!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Grump,

Kimchi met Sargent Dostie and Buster, as well.

Her story is here, if you're interested:


There's a couple cool photos on there, and an interesting story.

louis365 said...

Beware the wrath of Helter Skelter!

katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...

Hi Bobby!!! :)

katie8753 said...

Starship, my apologies. I was re-reading thru the comments and I see that you said you saw Roman from the back. I missed that one. Thanks!

I'm going to watch that video again. Evidently I've missed 9/10 of the people. LOL.

leary7 said...

I hope this is okay to say LS. If not just delete.
The situation over on the 'other site' is NOT childish or kids not getting along in the sandbox as some over there have denoted. No, it is a serious adult conflict. I won't speak for Saint or Grumph but it was a case of all three of us separately being offended by a new kid on the block who belongs to the Col's Brigade where anyone who even remotely take HS seriously is labeled a moron or worse.
The real problem for me was that this 'new kid' isn't just another HS hater and insulting to anyone who won't denounce HS....he is also clearly an anti-govt wacko who actually in one post theorized that it was POSSIBLE that the Family might have been involved in both the RFK and MLK assassinations. There was seriously no indication he was kidding. the guy is clearly a hater and a whack job, not a good combo.
Anyways, the Saint does bluster from time to time, and part of his charm is that he admits it. But beneath the blustering is someone who has always seemed to me to be dedicated to reasonableness when it comes to motive. And for that he is routinely skewered by the Col and his minions.
The Grump is just a plain old patriot and I think was offended by the anti-govt rhetoric this 'new kid' was spewing.
One thing the conflict did do was bring the Col in out of the cold as he was unable to resist spanking the Saint again. Cheap shot. Like many, I wish the Col would instead update his blog with his thoughts of the tour.
One thing the Col did write in his short post was the sentence...
"Helter Skelter was not the motive."
That's the Col's mantra, it will probably be etched on his gravestone. And honestly I respect the Col or anyone who sees it that way, as I think the Saint does too.
We just don't respect or tolerate being called "mindless robots" and worse when we disagree.
This blog is the safer place to be because Lynyrd tries hard not to allow personal attacks and such. And THERE ARE A WHOLE BUNCH OF NICE FOLK HERE. There will be some volatile discussions, as there are in any barroom or blog. But as long as the insults and name-calling are limited this is the place to be.
Thanks LS.

leary7 said...

and now I will resume my Bruins mourning.

katie8753 said...

Leary, it's a fact that HS was discussed by Charlie at the Ranch(es). Anyone who doesn't know that doesn't know much about this case.

Was it the motive? I don't know. I doubt it. But it was discussed.

There are all kinds of theories for the motive(s) for these murders. I personally think the motive for Cielo Drive was different from the LaBianca murders. But that's just what I think. I don't know that to be a fact.

In fact, there's not one, single, solitary person who follows this case who actually can stand up and say "I have absolute proof what the motive was" because we just haven't gotten to that point.

he is also clearly an anti-govt wacko who actually in one post theorized that it was POSSIBLE that the Family might have been involved in both the RFK and MLK assassinations

Surely that's a joke. HA HA.

katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
leary7 said...

Katie, I'm with ya on being incredulous that the girls, if they truly believe they were duped, haven't spoken out. I can only conclude they still think the reason for TLB was some form of 'HS/race war/piggies must die' thing. If they thought they were duped and were just doing one of Charlie's dirty errands you would think they would be pissed off enough to speak out.

Anyways, no, I really don't think that guy was kidding about RKF and MLK. He really seems that bent to me.

katie8753 said...

Anyways, no, I really don't think that guy was kidding about RKF and MLK. He really seems that bent to me.

Really?? Did he mention any of who, what, when, where, how or why?

Oh wait, let me gauge it on my homodetecto-meter. HA HA.

leary7 said...

I appreciate your levity Katie, but this was really a serious matter for me. A discussion about TLB should be a open discussion where all views are respected. We all know the facts of TLB have been proven but motive is still a question mark for many.
But when someone comes onto a blog and basically hijacks it to promote their own political or militant views that is when I object. My conflict with this guy began when I mentioned something about the Boston bombing and he basically called me an idiot for believing the media or govt conclusions. Being from Boston I was greatly offended by his insinuations.

The point is that it is all well and good to disagree on things. What fun would it be if we all agreed. But I draw the line when the Col and this guy denounce and belittle anyone who isn't on their bus. Especially, as the Saint points out often, 43 years later "their bus" still has not concrete data or facts.
When I was knee deep in the JFK stuff I ran into allot of these type folk who insist that our govt is evil and behind every wrong that occurs. They are tiresome to say the least.

katie8753 said...

Ahh, I was just trying to make you laugh Leary, but I realize this is a sore spot for you.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm on your side completely. You should have the right to say what you think without being belittled or bullied, as should everyone else.

There are all kinds of pushy people who like to force their opinions on everyone else. I would just consider the source, and be glad you don't have to put up with it.....

Anonymous said...

Katie - this is a sore spot for me too. I was with those guys from the beginning. It used to be a nice friendly place to share thoughts and theories. I just visit it now to see who Max and the Col are making of fun of now.

Yes, that AH pissed me off, but maybe it was for the best.

FWIW - I don't buy the Helter Skelter motive either. But I have enough respect for my fellow bloggers to treat them with dignity. Unless I woke up in Iran this morning, I think we all have freedom of thought.

For now, my thoughts on "Max Frost" will remain in my head.

leary7 said...

sorry katie....I guess my sense of humor disappeared in 17 seconds the other night. I am still stunned.

leary7 said...

tis my Irish lament, Grump. I honestly often wish I could keep my thoughts in my head. But truthfully, they give me a migraine if I don't let them out.

katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Venus said...

I'm always eager to hear other people's opinions, thoughts and theories.

Anonymous said...

I submitted a short book review on a real obsecure Manson book to Lynard. Once he posts it you will see my theory.

I am the book reader of the bunch. I have 99.9% of all the books on the subject. In some instances I have 2 editions. First and last of Helter Skelter and The Family. Obviously, The Family due to the Process chapter. In the First edition of Helter Skelter, there are pictures in it that are not in subsequent ones. Paul Crockett comes to mind.

My mail lady just delivered "No More Tomorrows" and "Charles Manson's Blood Letters Dueling with the devil" today.

If anyone thinks to themself, "I remember reading such and such somewhere", let me know. I'll find it. Might take me awhile, but I'll find it.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

To do is to be --- Descartes
To be is to do --- Voltaire
Do be do be do --- Frank Sinatra
---Men's Room, Greasewood Flats, Scottsdale, AZ

At the feast of ego, everyone leaves hungry.
---Bentley House of Coffee and Tea, Tucson, AZ

It's hard to make a comeback when you haven't been anywhere.
---Written in dust on the back of a bus. Wickenburg, AZ

Make love, not war. -- Hell, do both, get married!
---Women's Room, The Filling Station, Bozeman, MT

God is dead -- Nietzsche
Nietzsche is dead --- God
---The Tombs Restaurant, Washington, DC

If voting could really change things, it would be illegal.
---Revolution Books, New York, NY

If you can piss this high, join the fire department.
---On the wall in the men's room at a height of six feet. O'Ryan's Irish Pub, Ashland, OR

Beauty is only a light switch away.
---Perkins Library, Duke University, Durham, NC

I've decided that to raise my grade I must lower my standards.
---Houghton Library, Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

If life is a waste of time, and time is a waste of life, then let's all get wasted together and have the time of our lives.
---Armand's Pizza, Washington, DC

Remember, it's not, "How high are you?", it's "Hi, how are you?"
---Rest stop off Route 81, WV

Confucius say...
Man who keep feet firmly on the ground have trouble putting on pants.

Confucius say...
Passionate kiss, like spider web, lead to undoing of fly.

Confucius say...
He who walk through airport door sideways going to Bangkok.

Confucius say...
Boy who go to sleep with stiff problem wake up with solution in hand.

Confucius say..
Girl who sit on judge's lap get honourable discharge.

Confucius say...
Girl who go camping must beware of evil intent.

Confucius say...
Man who stand on street corner with hands in pockets, not feeling crazy, feeling nuts.

Confucius say...
He who fish in other's hole often catch crabs.

What's the definition of Australian aristocracy?
A man who can trace his lineage back to his father.

What has a bunch of balls and screws old ladies?
A bingo machine

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Sorry Grump.

I was putting together something funny, to lighten the mood...

I can tell you're an avid reader.
It comes through in your posts.

Reading is the cornerstone of brains.

I'm looking forward to your posts and input.

All input is greatly appreciated.

Venus said...


Venus said...

Obviously the LOL's were for Lynyrd's crazy jokes.....

Doc Sierra said...

The only thing I do in moderation is moderation itself.-
Doc Sierra

Venus said...

Just a few people I recognized: Steve and Neile McQueen, Kirk Douglas, Henry Fonda, John and Michelle Phillips, Warren Beatty....

Unknown said...

I rarely post, but I do read most of the TLB blogs in an effort to learn new and different viewpoints. So, to me it's refreshing to see and read posts by those who may be new to the blog world but knowledgeable about the case. This is the case with Max Frost. I don't know him and I don't know Leary, but I think Leary definitely misunderstood. Here's the quote Leary was referring to above: "It's probably one if the many unsolved murders in LA that has been conveniently, and unsubstantiatedly, dumped on Manson and gang. In case you didn't know, they also offed JFK and MLK. Just look at the timeline - it's TOTALLY possible!"

To me, that post by Max was so totally a joke. I can't believe anyone even thought to take it seriously. A hater and a whack job? No. Opinions that differ from yours? Probably. But that's no reason not to hear each other and work toward the same goal.

katie8753 said...


LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I agree Bob.

Grump, Leary and Saint are welcome here anytime.

Beyond that one point... this ENTIRE "Frost" debacle has ZERO to do with me.


I repeat:

I don't know who "Frost" is... and quite frankly, I don't care.

And for the record:
Leary and Saint were friends and contributors LONG before any of this crap, ever went down.

I was communicating with Leary and Saint, BEFORE my blog even opened!

Grump is a well-known (and respected) acquaintance.
I've never had any on-going issues with him.
He's welcome.

Beyond that... this entire situation IS NOT my problem.

katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Cindy stated:
"It's refreshing to see and read posts by those who may be new to the blog world but knowledgeable about the case. This is the case with Max Frost."

In the very next sentence, Cindy states:
"I don't know him."

How do you know he's knowledgeable about the case, if you don't know him?


katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I'm done with this subject.

I'm here to discuss the case... the thread topic... and have a few laughs.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Sorry Bob.

My post was not directed at you personally.

I wrote "I agree Bob" at the top... and then proceeded to "air my thoughts" on this entire sickening situation.

My post was not directed at you... it was a message to everyone.

I'm done with this "Eviliz" crapola.

This is their bullshit... not mine.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

If anyone has anything else to say on this topic, please contact Matt at Eviliz.com

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Further conversation on this topic, will be deleted on-sight.

katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Patty is Dead said...

LOVE that movie. Katie, please email Patty so we can try and bury the hatchet. Peace.

leary7 said...

sorry Lynyrd, last one I promise, but to Cindy Lee's point...sorry Cindy, I see your point, but the inclusion of the phrase "just look at the timeline" right before the assertion makes it read like not a joke to me. If that phrase wasn't there then I would have concluded is was just sarcasm or such.
But Lynyrd's point is worth repeating, if you don't know him how are you so sure. I most certainly could be wrong, it might have very well have been meant as humorous. But combined with his other comments I didn't see it as such.

leary7 said...

when I clicked onto NBC tonight the program note at the top read "Stanley Cup Finals">
Ah, the horror.

leary7 said...

whoops Lynyrd, I posted before I saw your "no mas" dictum.
My apologies.

Doc Sierra said...

That rug really pulled the room together.......

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Leary... Please.

For the love of Gawd...

I'm not operating a home for wayward wanderers here. LOL

I feel like Gene Wilder (Willy Wonka), when he tells that blueberry chick:
"Don't..... stop..... wait....."

And of course, the girl ignores Wonka... eats the gum anyway... and shortly thereafter, turns into a blueberry. LOL

You had the last word.
It's over.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

The best part of Lebowski, is the toilet bowl scene.

This guy's dunking "the dude's" head in the...

F#ck it... I'm too too tired to type.

Here's the scene:


leary7 said...

i already apologized. and the only reason I made the last post was to try and explain to Cindy why I didn't think the comment in question was a joke. I felt I owed her that.
but as you say, done and done, better things to talk about.

leary7 said...

have you ever bowled candlepin Katie?

leary7 said...

and no, that's not an opening for the line "I like the big balls."

leary7 said...

Candlepin bowling is big in Boston. All over New England I think. But nowhere else in the country as far as I can tell.

Doc Sierra said...

The Dude: "You Fuckin' paraquat".

Anybody that was a pot smoker in the late 70s probably remembers the great paraquat scare. Apparently the Mexican government sprayed a weed killer called paraquat on bunch of marijuana fields. We were told that smoking it would cause instant death. On SNL Weekend Update, as a joke, Chevy Chase gave an address to send samples for testing. So, that's what The Dude mentioning paraquat was all about......

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

"and no, that's not an opening for the line "I like the big balls."


Kimchi said...

Doc Sierra said:
The Dude: "You Fuckin' paraquat".

"Anybody that was a pot smoker in the late 70s probably remembers the great paraquat scare. Apparently the Mexican government sprayed a weed killer called paraquat on bunch of marijuana fields. We were told that smoking it would cause instant death."

What a flashback...there was a DJ on an underground radio station (KMET) in LA in the 70's...

His name was Paraquat Kelly...


I never understood his name, LOL

Doc Sierra said...

I used to listen to KMET and KLOS back in the early 80s when I was stationed at Marine Corp Air Station El Toro. Kimchi, you just brought back some fond memories.....

Anonymous said...

No More Lynard, I promise

NEW SUBJECT: What is you favorite book on the TLB Murders and why?

ME: Trial By Your Peers, William Zamora This is one of those books you either love it or hate, no in between. Once you get past the jury conflicts (with each other and the guards), and which juror is sleeping with another juror, it is full of great information. The first time I read it, I found out numerous things that were wrong in “Helter Skelter”. What comes to mind is Pats half sister Charlene. In Helter Skelter it says she OD’d, here is says she drowned. I now know this to be true.

I found the jury deliberations fascinating. Leslie was real close to being found guilty of one of the lesser charges.

If you don’t have the time to read the entire case transcripts, I recommend this. So much info that had not been mentioned in any other book is contained here. Nothing earth shattering, but good stuff all the same.

leary7 said...

now that is a fascinating topic, Mr. Grump - the best and most favorite TLB books. I am finally going to break down and order Robert H's "Death To Pigs" package. Is it one of your favorites or not.

Whatever happened to that new supposedly comprehensive new TLB book by a pro writer that was to come out this year?

sunset77 said...

GrumpFromPahrump mentioned the cause of death of Krenwinkel's half sister Charlene, I just read an old newspaper clipping that said: The body of Charlene Ann Lowell was found by her all night companion Benny Fred Mosely. Mosely told police he and Miss Lowell had been "drinking heavily", throughout the night and he had fallen asleep.

Miss Lowell's bathing suit was found on the creek bank with a whiskey bottle according to Detective Lt. William Riley".

That clipping is posted on another blog, so I won't post a link, it can be found easily with a simple Google search however, if anyone is interested.

Anonymous said...

Manson: The Life and Times of Charles Manson by Jeff Guinn will be released on August 6th.

Death to Pigs - not bad. I enjoyed Little Paul talking about "Stephenie Rowe". She has always fascinated me. Left San Francisco with Sadie and stayed with them until the Barker Ranch raid. The stories she could tell. Her name appeared in an updated version of the Family and Adam G's book, as being the girl known as one of the Jane Does. I've since found out she ia alive and well.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Grump.

Thanks for the recommendation.

I'll grab a copy of Zamora's book.
It sounds interesting.

We did a very brief review of that book, a long time ago.
Actually, it wasn't even a review... just a cover shot, with a brief description of the contents.
It got poor reviews from a few bloggers... but, I've never read the book myself.

The book has always interested me, from an "inside account" perspective.
I mean... Zamora sat on the jury, for the entire trial.
How much more "inside" can you get?
So yeah... the book has always interested me.
Maybe it's time, I grab a copy.

I looked through our index, for the old thread.
I couldn't find it anywhere.

Come to find out, Zamora's book was also released under the title "Blood Family".
That's where I finally found it... under "Blood Family".

I believe "Blood Family" is actually the current title.

It's a cheap investment for anyone interested, with used copies on EBay starting around $3.

I've always been interested in that book, and based on your recommendation, I'll pick-up a copy.

I'll write a review from my own perspective.

Thanks Grump!

leary7 said...

Stephanie Rowe, eh, Grump. Mine has always been Ella Jo Bailey. Though after listening to Stephanie Schram on Star Radio I've become a big fan of her intelligence and perspective.
The books we wish they'd write. I always wanted Donkey Dan to write a sort of "The Happy Hooker" type memoir.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I'd definitely buy anything authored by Squeaky.

Loves me some Squeaks. LOL

starship said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
starship said...

Circa 1977, west shore of beautiful Cazenovia Lake, NY:

"We smoke pot

We like it a lot

So please don't spray it with paraquat..."

Unknown said...

I bought the Paperback of 'Blood Family' for a quarter at a yard sale.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Wow... a quarter?
You've got me beat.

I got Sanders' original hard-back pressing for a dollar, at a Library penny sale.
(It's the blue book, with the red dune buggies, all over it)
The title includes the phrase "Manson's Dune Buggy Attack Battalion" (or, something like that)

No kidding... a buck.

The kicker though, is that I had already bought Sanders' latest edition in soft cover for $25. LOL
(The red one)

I bought the original as a collection piece.
You can never have enough dust collectors on a bookshelf. LOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...


I should probably dust it off, and read it.
The original book is quite different (than the newest edition).
It includes a chapter on the "Process Church" (as Grump pointed out).

In fact, the entire book is laid-out differently.
None of the chapters or pages line-up (with later editions) at all.

Kimchi said...

My favorite book is still (no surprise) "The Devil's Dropout"...

Can't get over the part where TJ sampled the baby shit...lol

I have the Jeff Guinn book preordered...Amazon said it would come in July, but more than likely, August - like Grump said.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...


I have to admit, baby shit "sampling" is tough to beat.


LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...



I have to admit, baby shit "sampling" is tough to beat.


LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Didn't John Waters have his character "Divine" eat dog shit in one of his movies?

Jeez... LOL

Baby shit is hard to trump... but, I gotta give the nod to dog shit. LOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Whatta you guys think?

A poll?

Baby shit VS dog shit?


LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...


Here it is:


Damn, that's gross.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Now, that's what I call a "shit-eating grin".

: )

Kimchi said...

Doc Sierra said:

"Kimchi, you just brought back some fond memories....."

KLOS - "Breakfast with the Beatles" every Sunday morning with Chris Carter...

My fav....I have a lot of those shows saved on cassettes, which are probably all but dust now...lol

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...


Doc Sierra said...

Hi Kimchi,
I remember that back in the early 80s on Sunday nights KLOS used to play a whole album side from mail requests. I listened every Sunday night and one time they played my request. I think it was a side of the Beatles White album......

Kimchi said...

LS said:

Hi Boss!!!!!

Doc Sierra Said:

"I remember that back in the early 80s on Sunday nights KLOS used to play a whole album side from mail requests. I listened every Sunday night and one time they played my request. I think it was a side of the Beatles White album......"

I remember that too Doc - but I go back a little earlier - in 1973 I called in a request for the Neil Young Harvest album - They played it!!! I was so jazzed...

I used to love Uncle Joe Benson- his voice was so soothing...

Unknown said...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...
Wow... a quarter?
You've got me beat

I bought the paperback of 'Helter Skelter' at a CHURCH sale!
Can't remember what it cost but it couldn't have been more than a buck.
It was a little while after the tv movie...I must have been 13 or 14.
Still have it.
I remember reading it in school..It got me strange looks from teachers and worried my mother!

Unknown said...

The 'lost lennon tapes' was my radio fix in the late 80s.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Does anyone remember the "King Biscuit Flower Hour" radio show?

Man... I LOVED that show.

I wanna say, it was every friday night at 11pm.
(Either that, or saturday at 11)

They played one FULL album every week.

And, I mean good albums.
"Dark side of the Moon"... Jethro Tull... Zeppelin... Hendrix... The Doors... Zappa... you name it.

I would buy blank cassettes and record every show.

They played each side of the album through, with no interruptions or pauses.

I must have recorded 50 albums that way, over 4-5 years.

Doc Sierra said...

I remember the King Biscuit Flower Hour. I used to listen to it.

Hey, what about Dr. Dimento?
I remember shrooming while listening to Captain Beefheart and Frank Zappa when I was a teenager.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Does anyone remember the "King Biscuit Flower Hour" radio show?

Man... I LOVED that show.

I wanna say, it was every friday night at 11pm.
(Either that, or saturday at 11)

They played one FULL album every week.
And, I mean good albums:
"Dark side of the Moon"... Jethro Tull... Zeppelin... Hendrix... The Doors... Zappa... you name it.

I would buy blank cassettes and record every show.

They played each side of the album through, with no interruptions or pauses.

I must have recorded 50 albums that way, over 4-5 years.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Sorry Doc.

Our comments got mixed-up timewise.

Your response is before my question.

Feel free to repost. LOL

Doc Sierra said...

Hi Matt P. I read Helter Skelter in 9th grade for a book report for an English class called Detective Literature. My dad was pretty upset until I told him why I was reading it. None of the teachers gave it a second look because I went to a pretty liberal junior high in South San Francisco called Westborough Jr High. The teachers encouraged us to pursue our interests no matter what they were as long as they weren't harmful....

johnnyseattle said...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...
Does anyone remember the "King Biscuit Flower Hour" radio show?

Man... I LOVED that show.

I wanna say, it was every friday night at 11pm.
(Either that, or saturday at 11)"

Damn, you brought back a memory with that mention Lynyrd. In the early 80's, Armed Forces Radio use to play that for us when I was stationed in Japan. I pulled a lot of midnight shifts as an MP and the King Biscuit Flower Hour was kick butt.

leary7 said...

my favorite station back in Boston in the day had a station jingle that went...
Hey, kick the dog and pass the bottle/eat potatoes and wear a dress/quote Jim Joyce and kiss ur mutha/listen to WCAS.
great alternative music. I miss good radio. I found a great show out of NY last summer that had a hudband/wife team, both great musicians but can't recall it now. I'll think of it.

Doc Sierra said...

There's a station out of Santa Cruz, CA called KPIG. It's a throwback. The DJs pick the music that they play. They play a lot of Neil Young, John Hiatt, James Mc Murtry, Grateful Dead, Robert Earl Keen, Steve Earle. You know, the stuff that's too good for most commercial radio stations. I moved away from that area but I subscribe to it and get it on my computer and my smart phone. KPIG.com

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Leary and Prokes...

Do you guys remember 94.5 WCOZ?!

That was the BEST Boston Rock-n-Roll Station Ever!

Their slogan was:

94 and a half, WCOZ... "Kick-Ass Rock-n-Roll!"

And KICK ASS they did!



I had this sticker on my car for YEARS! LOL


You GOTTA remember that sticker.
It was everywhere!
They even had clothing patches. LOL


Brief History:

Originally owned by Herald-Traveler Corp., parent of the Boston Herald-Traveler newspaper, the station was sold to Blair Radio in 1972, and in the 1980s to Sconnix.

In the summer of 1975, WCOZ announced that it would change its format to album-oriented rock, which it did on August 15 of that year.

Although automated at first, a team of live announcers was hired, led by Ken Shelton and program director Clark Smidt.

By the end of 1975, WCOZ had live announcers around the clock that also included George Taylor Morris, Leslie Palmiter, Lisa Karlin, Mark Parenteau and Robert Desiderio.

WCOZ's format was tightened significantly in 1978, when new Program Director Tommy Hadges arrived from arch rival WBCN.

In 1980, another new program director, John Sebastian, arrived and made some changes.

WCOZ was still a rock station, but its focus was tightened to loud, hard rock (or "Kick-Ass Rock 'N Roll", according to the station's slogan) with minimal announcer talk and short play list.

It was extremely successful, peaking with a phenomenal 13.1 in the ratings, in 1982.


The only thing close to COZ, was WBCN... and they were huge rivals.

But to me... COZ ruled the world... and BCN was a wanna-be. LOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Here ya go Johnny... King Biscuit:

The King Biscuit Flower Hour was a syndicated radio show presented by the D.I.R. Radio Network that featured concert performances by various rock artists.

The program was broadcast on Sunday nights from 1973 until 2007, although new programming ceased in 1993 and previous shows were repeated from that point.

During its prime, the program was carried by more than 300 radio stations throughout the United States.

The show's name was derived from the influential blues radio show "King Biscuit Time", which was sponsored by the King Biscuit Flour Co., and the hippie phrase "flower power".

The first show was broadcast on February 18, 1973 and featured Blood, Sweat & Tears, the Mahavishnu Orchestra, and Bruce Springsteen.

The long-time host of the show until the mid-1990s was Bill Minkin, whose voice has been described as "the perfect blend of hipster enthusiasm and stoner casualness."

The concerts were usually recorded with a mobile recording truck, then mixed and edited for broadcast on the show within a few weeks. In the 1970s, the show was sent to participating radio stations on reel-to-reel tape.

In 1980, D.I.R. began using the LP format, producing the show on a three-sided, two record set.

The first show on compact disc was a live retrospective of the Rolling Stones broadcast on September 27, 1987.

By the year 2000, King Biscuit was using CD-R media to distribute the show. These tapes, records or compact discs were accompanied by a cue sheet which gave the disc jockey a written guideline of the content and length of each segment of the program.

In 1982, a three-alarm fire damaged the Manhattan office tower that housed D.I.R. Broadcasting.

Reportedly, many of the King Biscuit Flower Hour recordings were lost in the fire.

Although closely associated with classic rock in its later years, the King Biscuit Flower Hour dedicated much air time to new and emerging artists, including new wave and modern rock artists in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

In 2006, the King Biscuit tape archives were acquired by Wolfgang's Vault which began streaming concerts online and has made some available for download.

leary7 said...

thanks Doc. I am going to get that on computer for sure.

leary7 said...

I was a Morning Mattress with Charles LaQuidara guy Lynyrd. he did a segment at the end of his show, michigas or something, when turning it over to Mark P that were classic.

johnnyseattle said...

damn, that King Biscuit was around a lot longer than I thought.
thanks Lynyrd!

PS: I like your new tag line as a Research Blog.

Lynn said...

I used to live directly across from Forest Lawn Glendale. This church is also where Ronald Reagan married Jane Wyman. I believe Michael Jackson is also buried in this Forest Lawn. There is also a crematory on the property, as well as a museum. The last time I was in the museum, they had an exhibit of 60s posters.

Unknown said...

I remember BCN and COZ.
AAF also.

Lynn said...

John and Michelle Phillips can be seen at

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hey Lynn!

Long time, no see!

Kimchi said...

Hi Lynn!

Good to see you! I was thinking about you this week and how I missed your posts...

Non-Manson stuff -

Today, on the radio, they played this song I haven't heard in at least 3 decades...

Apparently men hated it...but as a pre-teen in 1970 I loved it...

"The Rapper" by the Jaggerz,, 1970


"Come up to my place, for some coffee or tea or me"..."Rap, rap, rap, they call him the Rapper"...


Brian Davis said...

I can't let you New Englanders talk about Boston radio without mentioning the mighty flamethrowing WBZ !

I know it's a talk station but I used to listen to that station every night to the late great Larry Glick !

I even had a Glick University T-shirt !

I miss those days and I miss Larry Glick but I still listen to WBZ !

Good stuff Lynyrd !

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Leary said:
"I was a Morning Mattress with Charles LaQuidara guy Lynyrd. he did a segment at the end of his show, michigas or something, when turning it over to Mark P that were classic."

Hi Leary.

I remember the name Charles LaQuidara.
He was a huge success... his show was very popular... and his name, was widely recognized.

However... as for myself, I never listened to his show.

Back in my "radio days"... I did all my listening between 7pm and 2am. LOL
I was more of a "late night driving food" kinda listener (LOL)... and the content was 99% music.
I never really did "talk shows".
The chances of me catching a show called "the morning mattress", was slim to zero. LOL
I was more of a "midnight mattress" kinda guy! LOLOL
In college, I never took a course that started before 10am.
And even 10am, was brutal. LOL

Much, much later in my life... I stumbled upon Howard Stern.
Stern was my first real experience with "morning" and "talk" radio.
Stern aired between 6am and 10am in my area.

Stern is one of those guys... love him or hate him... agree or disagree with him... you have to tune-in (to hear what he's gonna say next)... and that's his genius.
He's entertaining... and that's exactly, what he is... a successful entertainer.

He went to satellite, and I stopped listening. LOL

My teens, 20's and early 30's were consumed with late night Rock-n-Roll. LOL
(Along with MTV in the 80's. LOL)
I don't think MTV even plays music or concerts anymore...

Alice Cooper does a late-night radio show in my area now, which I like to catch.
Ironically... it's called "Nights with Alice Cooper". LOL
It may be all old re-broadcasts... I'm really not sure.
It's current to me. LOL

Cooper's show is primarily classic rock music, but he shares a lot of cool "inside information" and "trivia" about the artists in-between tracks (in a funny, energetic fashion).
He knows a lot of the musicians personally... and he tells a lot of interesting stories.

For a guy like yourself, who likes "behind the scenes" inter-personal stories... you'd love Alice Cooper, and his show.
Over the past 50 years... Cooper has been everywhere... and has interfaced with everyone!

From Wiki:
"Cooper's radio show "Nights with Alice Cooper" began airing on January 26, 2004 in several US cities. The program showcases classic rock, Cooper's personal stories about his life as a rock icon and interviews with prominent rock artists. The show is broadcast on nearly 100 stations in the US and Canada, and has also been broadcast all over the world."

(Pretty much, what I just said... LOL)

It's a great radio show.
Unfortunately, Cooper only airs once a week... and his show starts at like 10 or 11pm.
That was a great time slot for me in the old days... but not so much now. LOL

Doc Sierra said...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Much, much later in my life... I stumbled upon Howard Stern.
Stern was my first real experience with "morning" and "talk" radio.
Stern aired between 6am and 10am in my area.
Ol' Howard Stern. When I was stationed in Bethesda, MD, a Washington DC suburb, I used to listen to Stern. I remember when he talked smack about the DC 101 station management and got fired. He was really popular out there. He got replaced by a guy called the Grease Man. Fun times back in early 80s in Washington DC........

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Brian,

WBZ is hands-down the BEST AM radio station in Boston... arguably, all of New England.

Quite frankly, (in Massachusetts) WBZ IS AM radio.

Run by CBS (yes, the CBS tv corporation), BZ is the oldest AM station in New England.
It began broadcasting from Springfield in 1921.

BZ is #1 for local news, weather, and sports all day.
In the evening (as you said), they run talk shows.

Whenever, I need the local weather or a sports score... I check BZ.

Even as a kid, we always listened to WBZ, to find out if school was cancelled due to snow. LOL
They'd run the local school cancellations every 10 minutes!
How can you not love a station, that officially cancelled school during your childhood? LOL!

I really should start listening to their talk shows in the evening.
I'm sure it's good stuff.
BZ is a huge, influential, highly-respected, corporation.

See here:

No doubt... Larry Glick had one of the best gigs, in AM radio.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hey Doc!

The grease man huh?
Too funny. LOL

You really gotta wonder, how a DJ ends-up with a tag like that...

Did he keep vaseline in his desk? LOL
Did he moonlight as a mechanic? LOL
Did he slick his hair back like "Bowzer"? LOL

I guess it's probably safe to assume, that Stern's career eclipsed that of "Mr. Grease".

I wonder where the grease man is today?
Probably cleaning toilets for Howard Stern. LOL

Life's strange ironies...

Doc Sierra said...

Hey Mr Skynyrd. The NHL draft is just starting right now on NBC Sports.

Doc Sierra said...

The Grease Man was actually pretty good. I was working graveyard shift for a while and I'd come home in the morning and drink Stroh's and listen to his morning show. His name wasn't a household word in DC like Howard Stern but I had beer come out of my nose more than once thanks to the Grease Man.....

Unknown said...

Howard Stern goofing on the Greaseman for a racist comment.

Theres three parts.

Lynn said...

Thanks for the welcome posts. Kimchi, I was down in Long Beach recently. We were sitting out by the water, eating at Bostons and they played that song. Had not heard it in years and it was stuck in my head for the whole week. Here is another one that gets stuck in my head quite frequently

Lynn said...

More info on Forest Lawn Glendale

It's a rather large memorial park

Lynn said...

Lastly, Bobby Beausoleil is releasing Lucifer Rising in different colored vinyl- apparently the last reissue. You can purchase for $59 on cdbaby.com.


Doc Sierra said...

Manson: Notorious Crime and Trial
Tonight on the BIO Channel 9PM PST.

Be there or be square......

Brian Davis said...

Doc Sierra said...
"Ol' Howard Stern. When I was stationed in Bethesda, MD, a Washington DC suburb, I used to listen to Stern. I remember when he talked smack about the DC 101 station management and got fired."
June 30, 2013 at 12:39 PM,

I was born and raised in DC until my late teens and I caught on to Stern from the day he got to DC101 until he left, which I just want to clarify, Stern was not fired for talking about station management..Stern was fired for his calling the airport live on-air and asking how much a one-way ticket to the 14th street bridge would cost a couple days after a passenger jet crashed into the 14th st bridge and killing everyone in a ice/snow storm. That is what got him fired. Stern was trying to make a point of how stupid it was for the airplane to take off in the first place in the weather.

The Greaseman (Doug Tract) was hilarious but had a completely different style. Greaseman used sound effects and voice characters for his bits. Thanks !

Doc Sierra said...

Hi Brian,
Thanks for clearing that up. I lived on Bel Pre Rd in Silver Spring. Us 19 year old servicemen used to spend a lot of time at Manny's on Rockville Pike and all along M St in Georgetown. We used to party and check out the live bands at the crazy horse and try to pick up women at the Pel Mel. Man, I miss that place. I miss buying a bag of burgers at Little Tavern.....BUY 'EM BY THE BAG!

CarolMR said...

Thanks, Doc. Do you know if the show is a re-run?

Doc Sierra said...

Hi Carol,
it came out in 2010. It's pretty good. I recorded it on my DVR a few months ago.

CarolMR said...

Doc, you're right - the documentary was pretty good. I'd never seen it before. Funny seeing what Bill Kurtis looked like in 1970! It was more graphic than I thought it would be - seeing the knife wounds on Leno's body was horrible.

Doc Sierra said...

One thing I noticed is that Charlie seemed to stay on top of mens's hairstyles that were in fashion. I remember seeing him in an interview in the late 80s or early 90s and he had a mullet. He looked like he was one of those trailer park guys on the show Cops.

CarolMR said...

You're right, Doc. Manson always seemed to have a different 'do according to the times.

leary7 said...

I hope I don't get detention for going off-topic, but have any of you guys read the transcript of LVH's parole hearing over on Cielodrive?

Two takeaways for me....the first was incredible sadness. I honestly believe both Leslie and Pat are quality human beings now, they have done amazing work, HARD DAMN WORK, rebuilding their character over the past forty years.
But they will never taste freedom. And maybe they shouldn't, I truthfully don't know. But it is a very sad situation.

The other thing I took away was how convincing Leslie was when she talked about Helter Skelter and her need/desire to "cross the line" and join Pat as a killer for the cause.
Nobody but NOOOOOBODY can say with any certainty what Manson's motive for TLB was. And who's to say what hidden agenda or demons were driving Tex.
But it is ABSOLUTELY 100% CERTAINTY that both Pat and Leslie raised their knives for Helter Skelter. Read Leslie talking about it 43 years later. It's a fact, Jack.

So when the Col and the other zealous anti-HS crusaders charge forth with their pitchforks of disdain and insults, I just have to laugh.
Helter Skelter was not a communist fairy tale or some nefarious plot by The Bug to make millions. It was THE REASON at least two of the TLB participants decided murder was okay, even necessary.
Who knows with Manson. I've never been comfortable with HS as his sole or primary motive for ordering TLB. I've always been more of a "dirty hands" proponent.
But Helter Skelter, as the primary motive for both Leslie and Pat, is simply beyond question.

johnnyseattle said...

I agree with you about the girls doing it on behalf of Helter Skelter or as Krenwinkle terms it, 'Healter Skelter.'

But that doesn't do a thing to dissuade many that other motives were in play for the main players. That they got the girls in it for a different reason probably goes to them wanting to keep the real reason for the murders on a need to know basis. They didn't need to know, so Charlie didn't tell em. Charlie never appeared to have a lot of respect for the girls around the ranch, that he gave them a line and made 'em dance to it is consistent with what we do know about Manson.
BTW, I hope you heard the Brian Davis Show. For anyone who wanted to understand the goings on at the ranch, from the cowboy point of view, this guest was an amazing fount of information.

leary7 said...

wait, what guest Johnny? I do like the Brian Davis show, I thought his interview with Stephanie Schram was excellent.
And I totally agree that both Charlie and Tex could have been operating on a totally different level and used the girls as the zombies they were.
My point was what you noted - only that Helter Skelter cannot be totally dismissed as motive because IT WAS the motive for at least two of the participants.
I am just always amazed at the almost palpable hatred spewed by SOME of the anti-HS folk at anyone who even remotely supports HS.
I just don't get it.

Doc Sierra said...

Hi Leary,
I couldn't agree with you more about the Helter Skelter motive. I think that the most likely scenario is that Manson used Helter Skelter to keep his minions paranoid and in need of his protection and leadership. I don't believe for a moment that he really believed chocolate fountains, Armageddon caused by a race war, and Chucky coming out on top. Furthermore I believe that the reason he and his followers went out on searches for the hole in Death Valley was to keep them occupied and to keep the paranoia up. Using his psychopathic skills of manipulation he was able to make them believe the whole Helter Skelter BS. I also wondered if Charlie knew from early on in the indoctrination of these people that he would someday need them to perform hits for a 3rd party and used all of his skills to groom them for such without knowing for sure if there was going to be hits ordered. You know, keeping them on ice so to speak.......

MrPoirot said...

Helter Skelter was the violent ideology that Manson became obsessed with and used to program the Family from hippiedom into group insanity which enabled him to drive them off a cliff into depravity and mass murder.

Without National Socialism you have no WWII. Without Helter Skelter you have no TLB murders.

sunset77 said...

I noticed a few comments about the "Greaseman". Without going into a long drawn out comment, I listened to him for probably 10 years nearly every single morning at the places where I worked. I still have many, if not most, of his "bits" nearly memorized.

Of course my favorite was "Lets go to West Virgina!!!!".


MissLadyMo said...

Interesting. This is also where Jean Harlow's service was held.
Lovely church. I think Reagan was married here as well.

Doc Sierra said...

sunset77 said...

I noticed a few comments about the "Greaseman". Without going into a long drawn out comment, I listened to him for probably 10 years nearly every single morning at the places where I worked. I still have many, if not most, of his "bits" nearly memorized.

Of course my favorite was "Lets go to West Virgina!!!!".
The Greas Man..... I used to listen to him on DC101 when I lived in Montgomery County, MD back in the early 80s. If I remember correctly he's the guy that replaced Howard Stern on DC101 Radio.
I used to crack up when he used to sing his "Tuna Fish" song.....

Sharmagne Leland-St. John-Sylbert said...

I came out of the church a few seconds behind Steve and Neile. I'm at 1: 32:01 (blonde hair, green blouse, plaid Black Watch mini skirt. Close up at 1:32:06:03) I went to Sharon's funeral with Harry Falk Jr. and since he didn't know Jay Alex Cord offered to escort me to Jay's funeral. Alex was a frequent guest in our home. Alex is on my right. It was Harry who called to tell me he heard on the TV at the Beverly Hills Sports Club that Jay and Sharon had been murdered. He actually told his brother Tommy and asked Tommy to break the news to me so I wouldn't hear it from strangers..

I lived with Jay in the Harlow house on Easton Drive (actually the entrance was off Rimmel not Easton) I moved out shortly before the murders, because we were burgled while Jay was in Vegas cutting Frank's hair. Jay was away frequently cutting hair and he was fearful to have me living alone when he was out f town, so it was decided I'd take a house in the flats and only stay at Easton when Jay was there with me. I came home one day to find our belongings spread up and down the stairway to the carport. I rang Jay in Vegas and he said he'd call a friend to come help me put things back. about 20 minutes alter Steve McQueen showed up and stayed with me until Jay came home.

In the early 70s I did a photo shoot with Cami. It was for Bigelow Carpets shot by Jason Haley. Cami did the kitchen and I did the living room and bedroom shots. I remember shortly after Jay and I began living together Cami was voted Deb Star of the Year and we stayed home to watch her on TV. Jay still had loving feelings for her. He was like that with women whom he had once loved. By the way Cami's high school friend Carrie White sat next to me on the plane on the way to London for Sharon and Roman's wedding.

I think it is David Astor to Alex's right and just behind me at 1:32:09is Simone Hessera. I want to say its Sheila Wells and Freddy Bier at 1: 32:20:28 and just before that possibly Sid Kaiser with a walking cane. John and Michelle Philips 1:32:32:03 Mr. Hatami at1:33:15:03 Hatami was photographing a book to be called the Most Beautiful Women in the World. He had shot Sharon extensively and had just shot Jackie Bissett I believe the day of the murders.

Sharmagne Leland-St. John-Sylbert said...

PS Warren Beatty is next to Neile and I think I recognise Hank Fonda. Warren and Mr. Hatami are very prominent in the video of Sharon's funeral.

Dorothy Lanasa said...

Fred may have had Big Sis at Parkville, MD or in Granada st off of Washington Blvd, or the apartment house make a right at the Italian restaurant with no Italian owners or workers on Washington Blvd not too far from Sexton Street or Granada(SP?) a few streets from Sexton We are not doing this; so dont persecute us more. Make a right before the underpass of the bridge and go up this little street pass the sherman William Paint store, pass the small houses and then make a left back in there is an older apartment house where K might be. IF you go back to the street with the little house development and go right until the intersection and then go left, you may be at another place, called Westmoreland, something like that, written on a big brick building on the left. He was hold people there and I thought I heard that Jill was the ere from Joe's dearests. I think the children are okay, but someone should be searching for them; jay pays the fbi at Baltimore or he use to. I am scared he is in my home upstairs now; he sneaks in and he seeks out Robert into places he not allowed to tell me. They hurt him, sometimes rape him.

Sharmagne Leland-St. John-Sylbert said...

Extremely Random, Robert... I don't understand this post, but because an alert went into my email box, I wound up watching the funeral footage again. I made a list of new time stamps of everyone I recognised, and of course AOL ate the email!

If anyone is interested let me know and I'll re do it.