Sunday, May 27, 2012

Brian Davis had Paul Crockett on his radio show tonight.  It was a great show. 
Regrettably, I missed the first half... but they assured me, it would be re-broadcast.

They're creating an entire website for the show.  They have links to several TLB sites... including ours.  How cool is that?!  Thanks Brian!

Here's Brian's new link:
Just click the big "Star" when you get there... choose a media player from the list, and you're listening!  Sundays - 8PM, EST.
I highly recommend Brian's radio show, to all TLB enthusiasts. 
It's a great resource.  His show hosts many notable guests.

Crockett stated that (he believes) the Tate murders were related to Melcher.  Crockett didn't elaborate... but, I was left with the notion that Manson was not too pleased with Melcher... and evidently (I'm assuming), wanted to "send Melcher a message" sorta speak... (even though Manson knew Melcher was no longer living there).

By most accounts... the murders did leave Melcher both stunned and terrified... so, I guess the murders did serve that purpose (of sending Melcher a message) to some extent.  Again... I'm reading (A LOT) between the lines, as Crockett didn't actually say much... other than: "Melcher" was the motive, because Manson disliked him.  Take from it, what you will...

Of course, this does nothing to explain LaBianca.  BUT... Tate and LaBianca are two pieces which never fit well together anyway.  They're often regarded (by many) as "two seperate events".

I really want to hear the first half of the show.  Peace....
Brian Davis has compiled a new Podcast Site.  
All previous "Starcity Radio" broadcasts, are now available at the click of a button.  Everything is clearly labeled by guest and date.  If you missed any of the previous shows... have at it! 
Here's the Link: 


sbuch113 said...

LaBianca certainly is a enigma.

Investigative author Maury Terry has wondered if the LaBianca killings were committed simply to obscure the legit motive for the Tate massacre.
I tend to cautiously agree.

If it was a diversionary worked.

katie8753 said...

Hi Sbuch. I have to agree that reason for the LaBianca killings makes more sense than the gambling motive.

And I do think that the Cielo Drive murders definitely had something to do with Melcher.

Unknown said...

to me the idea that the tate murders were commited just to scare someone be it melcher or anyone else just doesnt fit.
isnt there easier ways of scaring people than killing five people and risking life in prison?

katie8753 said...

Hi Matt.

>>>isnt there easier ways of scaring people than killing five people and risking life in prison?>>>

Yes there are lots of easier ways...but we're talking about Charlie here. LOL.

I have a feeling that Cielo Drive just represented something to Charlie that screamed out "rejection" to him.

I know that makes no sense, but Charlie makes no sense either.

Unknown said...

i don't know...charlie might be nuts but i don't think hes that stupid.
i think he was very capable of scaring the hell out of people without killing anyone.

katie8753 said...

Matt, he was capable of scaring people without killing anyone...but he did order murder.

Stop and think about it. He was mad at Melcher because he felt that Melcher had promised him a recording contract. That fell through. If he ordered a hit on Melcher, then it's just a dead issue. He'll never get that contract.

But if he ordered a hit on Cielo Drive, it would send a message to Melcher that he could be next if he didn't give him that recording contract.

I know this is all conjecture, but what else do we have to go on but to look at Charlie's history and surmise why this happened?

katie8753 said...

Charlie lived in "the now".

I've always thought that "now" means forget about yesterday and tomorrow. But Charlie's "now" only meant forgetting about yesterday. The reason I say that, is because he was always preaching about a "race war" and that would involve tomorrow.

So Charlie's "now" meant forget about yesterday and focus on tomorrow.

If you think about the Tate or LaBianca murders, it fits into Charlie's plan for tomorrow.

He was upset that Bobby got arrested for Gary's murder. Not that he cared about Bobby, but that he would be implicated. He's mad in general. He orders murders on a specific location (Cielo Drive) because he's pissed and wants to make Melcher (a person who blocked his artistic freedom) think twice.

katie8753 said...

I really don't think that Charlie ordered Gary's death.

This is how I think it went down.

Ella Jo told Charlie that Gary had inherited $5000 from someone. Which was bogus. Charlie wanted that money and called Gary to join the family. Gary said no. Charlie got mad.

Then Charlie tells Bobby to go get the $5000 from Gary. Bobby takes Mary & Sadie.

Bobby is unsuccessful in getting the money, because there isn't any money. The guy teaches music lessons. He may be getting $5/hour for those.

Bobby calls Charlie and tells him he's not getting the money. Charlie and Bruce roll up and Charlie acts like a big shot and cuts Gary's ear off. I think he thought that it would scare Gary into giving the fictitious money up.

Charlie and Bruce vamoose and Bobby is left alone with the decision.

Bobby decides to kill Gary. Why? I don't know. He claims it's because he was afraid that Gary would go to the police.

Some say Gary was a drug dealer. I say he wasn't. He was just a music teacher who tried to be nice to the "family".

Tomorrow there will be a hearing to see if certain tapes recorded by and between Charles "Tex" Watson and his attorney who went bankrupt will be awarded to the LAPD.

This may be something spectacular, or nothing at all. We'll see.

CarolMR said...

sbuch, I thought Maury Terry wrote that the LaBianca murders had to do with Rosemary supposedly being a drug dealer?

sbuch113 said...

Hi Carol,
Terry put forth several possibilities.
He didn't commit to any of them.

Drug dealing
gambling debts

Like the rest of us he readily admits he doesn't know.
He lays out arguments that contradict Helter Skelter.

In many ways diversion works for me.

CarolMR said...

Thanks, sbuch. I read Terry's book many years ago and liked it, but I have forgotten many of his theories. I wish I had kept the book.

katie8753 said...

Well the recorded conversations between Tex & his lawyer back in the early 70's before he was extradited to California have been released to LAPD.

It may be months or years before we know if anything was on those tapes.

I tend to think there's nothing on there that's substantial. But...Tex was good at throwing blame around, so he might have tried to blame others for crimes that he committed and wished to be out from under. Tex was NOT loyal to the family and would have thrown any of them under the bus.

We'll see what happens next.....

katie8753 said...

On the one hand, I'd love to hear those tapes.

But on the other hand, it might be just more pseudo reality mixed with Belladonna fantasy and goofbutt diddlings. LOL.

Tex was very good at feigning insanity at that time. It might be just more droolings of a wanna-be "mad man" trying to beat the rap.

sbuch113 said...

Hi Katie,
I'd pay to hear those tapes!

Unsolved murders? Unlikely but who knows.

Unknown details concerning TLB.

katie8753 said...

Hi Sbuch. I yam wit' you. HA HA.

I'd LOVE to hear those tapes. Even if there's nothing substantial on there. Just to hear Tex ramble on during that time period.

Motive?? That would be the icing on the cake!!! Hoo-wah!!! :)

sbuch113 said...

Discussing motive is a dicey thing people have strong opinions and when strong opinion rears its head it's important....for me....not to insult or cause anger.

That said, I took Helter Skelter off the table a long time ago.

Other Manson crimes that summer were not motiveless.
Hinman-drugs and money

Then the biggie, Tate.
Nearly forty years I've been looking at this case. I keep coming back to drugs and money.
The drug angle is obvious.
Money? I know the killers only walked out with a few bucks but that doesn't mean Manson didn't get money from someone else.
Drugs and money were a big motivator for Mr. Manson in the summer of '69. He was a ticking time bomb......maybe someone threw that bomb into the Tate house.

LaBianca.....the diversion theory is the best I've heard.

I don't think the actual killers know why they committed the murders.
Charlie does......and he's not going to tell us.

It's a hell of a story.
And a great mystery.

katie8753 said...

>>>Other Manson crimes that summer were not motiveless.
Hinman-drugs and money>>>

Crowe drugs...yes.

Hinman...only drugs. Charlie wanted money that he thought Hinman had....but he didn't.

>>>I don't think the actual killers know why they committed the murders.
Charlie does......and he's not going to tell us.>>>

Truer words were never spoken Sbuch. Charlie is the ONLY one who knows why the murders were committed. And he will never talk.

>>>It's a hell of a story.
And a great mystery.>>>

Yes it is. That's what keeps us all wondering on these blogs. We debate and wonder but never get closer to the truth.....

MrPoirot said...

There were multiple motives to the murders. i can agree with anyones idea of what was the motive unless they leave out a few of them. Even buglios said in his opening statement that there were many complicated motives. Though he named his book "Helter Sklelter" he did not say the race war thingy was the only motive. He said it as one of many. One of the motives was that Charlie was having a nervous breakdown...............again.

sbuch113 said...

I hear you MrPoirot, Everything you've said has to be seriously considered.
For some it's case closed.
Others.....not so much.

Respectfully, I'm a....not so much guy.

Bugliosi's courtroom/current argument of multiple motives.
Is to me what my dad used to call....covering your ass.

There's no question Manson was crazy.....still is.
He was also a career criminal.
With contacts in California going back to the 50's.

We've also been told he is of above average intelligence.
When Judge Keene had Joseph Ball meet with Manson to discuss law prior to granting pro per status.
Ball reported back that Manson had a very fine brain and freely conversed about complicated details of the law.

What I'm getting at is, sure Manson's nuts.
But not that unhinged.

I was a young guy in '74 when I first read HS. It didn't make sense then and it doesn't make sense now.

The again, to quote CM....No Sense makes sense.

The mystery swirls.

katie8753 said...

Think of the irony of this situation. You're arrested for horrific murders, you talk to your attorney for hours about the events prior to and after the murders (lying??), you're tried, convicted and get the death penalty, death penalty is overturned and you now have a chance to maybe someday get out, then 40+ years later, your attorney dies, goes bankrupt and the tapes you made years ago are now up for grabs.

Whatever is on those tapes, Tex has GOT to be sweating a little. After all these years, HE may not even remember what all he said. LOL.

katie8753 said...

I believe that part of yesterday's hearing included a request that Tex's nephew get all the documentation so he could give it to Tex. I'm assuming that happened. I wonder what's on this "documentation".

Mrstormsurge said...

Why were these atty-client conversations ever recorded to begin with? THAT would be an interesting place to ask about I bet.

katie8753 said...

Hi Stormy! I think recording conversations between attorney & client are probably pretty much standard protocol. Not sure though. this the usual procedure???

Star City Radio said...

Hello Lynyrd, Katie and all the LSB3er's !

Lynyrd, Thank you so very much for that generous post for SCR and the TLB Radio Program !

You have done an amazing job with your blog site and I enjoy coming here and reading yours and others posts and comments and even if we never got one mention here, we would still love to promote the LSB3 because you all are that damn good !

And thank you Katie for your support from the start ! You've been a weekly asset for our live TLB discussion room !

Keep up the great work LSB3 !

And here is the direct link to the Paul Crockett program:(This file is an MP3 and should open in default media player)

TLB Radio Program - Paul Crockett

Also, if anyone is interested, we have past programs at our podcast page at:
TLB Radio Program Podcast Page

Thank you again Lynyrd for the kind post !

The Best To You All At The LSB3.Com !

beauders said...

i wonder if watson's children are estranged from him now--why would his nephew request to get the tapes and not his own childen? there would be an irony there since he took sharon tate's child's life from her and then have four of his own and lose them through estrangment after a divorce. of course he deserves it and much worse.

katie8753 said...

Beauders, that's a good question. I was wondering about Tex's kids too. All this new interest in Tex has to be hard on them.

I wonder if they even tell people who their Dad is or just make some story up about where he is.

katie8753 said...

Brian, thanks so much for the links!!

You're doing a fantastic job with your TLB radio show on Sundays. It just keeps getting better and better!!

Keep up the good work, and I'll see you Sunday!! :)

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Brian.

Thanks for the kind words... they're much appreciated.
I'm anxious to hear, the rest of that Paul Crockett interview.
I also want to rewind and catch Max Baer, as well.

I put a link to your new podcast page on the main thread.


LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

"I'm a little confused about his self help electrical polarity stuff"


Yeah... me too!

: )

Are humans AC or DC current?
That one always confuses me. LOL

I think Charlie's fuse was a bit too small, for his amperage! LOLOL
...and that of course, was well before circuit breakers were introduced.

starship said...

Awesome that there is an archive of podcasts. I'm going to start in January and go in order from there.

I am way behind, I know...