Thursday, December 1, 2011

The "Manson Girls" Movie
This movie is really gonna Suck!
The "trailer clip" (below) for "ET" depicts Manson not only slicing Hinman's face, but stabbing him twice in the chest!  Where the f#ck is Bobby?!  Manson kills Hinman himself in this movie??  THEN, the clip depicts Susan putting a pistol in Hinman's mouth, and pulling the trigger!  Where are they getting this shit? 
These events aren't even CLOSE to reality!  It takes years to learn the events of this case, and evidently they didn't even hire one expert.  HECK... put Starship on the payroll as a consultant, and at least get the facts straight.  Watch the clip yourself.  This is really shaping-up to be a "Mustn't See".


LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

These facts are so far off-base... the movie is not even fair to those incarcerated.

I mean...
If the media distorts the facts, and perpetuates fantasy to this extent... these folks will never have a fair shot at parole.

The beginning of the clip, depicts one of the girls (I'm assuming Susan?)... awaking (what looks like Sharon) with a kiss??

I've been awaiting evidence of what the Colonel has been saying all along.
For me, this is proof-positive.
Colonel is spot-on with his assessment of this movie.
It's gonna seriously suck canal water.

Starship... contact these people!
Help Susanna make a worthwhile movie.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

What I can't understand, is this:

If you're going to invest money on a film, actors... the whole nine yards... why not hire ONE consultant?

Why not hire ONE EXPERT on the facts of the case, and make the movie worth filming... and moreover, worth watching?

It makes no sense to me.


katie8753 said...

Like I said recently on a previous thread, they should change the name of this movie from "The Manson Girls" to just "The Girls".

It has no basis on the facts of this case at all. In fact, it just looks like a bunch of girls kissing.

It looks like Susanna Lo was more interested in making a porno flick than a movie about the Manson case.

I'm glad that one girl isn't after an academy award....she'll be lucky to ever "work in this town again" after this bomb. LOL.

starship said...

Awful...just awful...

Yes, and it just goes to show you, for all of our bitching and moaning, the most accurate film depiction of what went down remains the first Helter Skelter CBS tv movie...

katie8753 said...

Director: Okay girls, in this next scene, you've all decided that you're tired of Charlie bossing you around, and you all jump on him and stab him with toothpicks.

Then after the stabbing, you all do a group hug, and then we'll do the closeups on the deep-throat kissing.



LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Starship said:
>>>>"the most accurate film depiction of what went down remains the first Helter Skelter CBS tv movie..."<<<<

I agree.
That old 1976 tv movie, that they used to air over two nights, is still the best.

Believe it or not, that movie is what got me hooked on this case.

They had advertised the show for about a week... and it was airing on friday and saturday night.
I was at a keg party that friday, and sat down in the guy's living room, and watched the whole show.
Dozens of people filed through the living room... looking at me like I was a freak.
Everyone wanted me to change the channel... but, I held tight to the remote... and the rest is history!


(That's a true story, by the way)

Anonymous said...

I dunno. Apart from departing from the "facts" I must say this looked better than I thought it might, even though we're only seeing it through the documentary lens POV.

And if this is some preliminary shooting for the purpose of raising finance, maybe the proper shoot will be better. Maybe the script too.

True crime murder movies nearly always simplify the tale or depart from the facts & piss off the aficionados, even big budget ones like Fincher's ($60m) "Zodiac".

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Cease2 said:
>>>>"I dunno. Apart from departing from the "facts"..."<<<<

Cease2, Cease2, Cease2... LOL

This is going to be a COMPLETE departure from the facts... unless they re-write the entire script.

This is a fictitious tale, based loosely around the Manson characters.

For entertainment purposes only, it may score big at the box office... in terms of dollars.
As I've said ad-nauseam... I believe most folks don't know the facts of the case anyway.

In terms of a REAL Manson movie... it's going to be painful to watch.
That clip of Manson stabbing Hinman in the chest repeatedly (alone)... is enough to make any TLB purist nauseas.

Sasanna Lo was questioned, as to how factual the movie will be... and her response was (loosely paraphrasing):

"I got so many different stories from everyone I interviewed... that I threw up my hands... and decided to just make a movie of my own interpretation(s)."

Her premise basically being, that her interpretation, is as good as anyone's.

If you're looking for facts, documentary, learning, or anything historically revealing... you'll be disappointed.

If you're looking for a night out, and some entertainment... you might enjoy it.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I love ya Cease2, so I'm trying my darndest to be polite.
I'm sitting on my hands, actually... but, I just can't do it. LOL

This movie is gonna be horrible.

They got the WRONG GUY, killing Hinman for Cripes sakes!!!!

The wrong murderer????!!!

I mean heck...

I KNOW "loose interpretations" are common in movies... but, jeez... at LEAST depict the right murderers!
It's not exactly a small detail.

Can you imagine if they had George Spahn ride-along for the LaBianca hit!

Now THAT would be a cool variation!
: )

Anonymous said...

Lynyrd said ..."Can you imagine if they had George Spahn ride-along for the LaBianca hit!

LOL. Maybe they used Spahn as a Sat Nav, hence the long drive around.

I was only saying it looked better than I expected L/S. No need to punch me out. That was a Lo blow in any case!

Personally I don't have any expectation that we'll ever see a fact-based Manson movie, let alone a good 'un. I thought the no-budget Manson Family Movies captured it all best.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...


Did you leave the "W" off of "low" on purpose?


That was a Lo Blow.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

We need another one of your clever poems.

How did that go?

"Easy Street"... Dead-End Street"... hahaha

Anonymous said...

Only one i've got starts, ...
"Mary Brunner had a lamb,
It smashed her in the face"

Anonymous said...

ROFL - I Love it.

A movie just for the sickofans.

You get the kind of movie that you deserve.

So it was Manson who killed Hinman all along?

You learn something new every minute.

Maybe Bobby should appeal?

What do you think Col?

Sadie kisses Sharon? Kinky. Leave it to Suzanna Lo to take this to a new level.

This would be a nice film for Mystery Science Theather 3000 to critique.

Great Stuff.

The sad part is that it's probably more accurate than Helter Skelter.

Anonymous said...

starship said...

>>>the most accurate film depiction of what went down remains the first Helter Skelter CBS tv movie...<<<

Not so.

Director Frank Howard gave the most accurate portrayal of what happened in his movie "The Helter Skelter Murders".

It was released at a time when the trials were in progress and it was banned from showing in LA.

You have the only film that gives REAL footage of Spahn Ranch prior to the wildfires of 1970 and his theme was that the murders were related to drugs which is DEAD ON.

He didn't have footage of the LaBianca murders but his film is the most accurate in terms of motive.

The other films are garbage meant to portray "Manson" as a wild animal and cult leader both of which he was not.

Frank Howards movie is a classic and remains an iconic piece of history that was made when not of all of the facts were known.

The Railsback movie was cheezy and was meant to portray Manson as the architect of these murders which he was not.

Take the railsback film and throw it in the trash along with the other ripoff flicks.

Like him or not, Frank Howard was closer to the truth than these other directors were.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...


Where can we find this Frank Howard film?

Anonymous said...

At least Movie Producer Suzanna Lo is putting her money where her mouth is unlike some other big windbag we know who runs blogs and claims to be "All Knowing" when it comes to the Manson saga.

How about it Don Murphy? Where's your "Manson" movie that you claimed was a pet project of yours.

I know ... In the words of Shakespere, it's "Much Ado about Nothing" as usual from the great blog runner.

Hey, i've got an idea for a good casting role if you do decide to make a Manson movie.

Why don't we hire Philip Gronowski to play the role of Steven Parent?

I'm available as a consultant if you need more casting help :-)

Gotta tip ya hat to Suzanna Lo. Who needs the TRUTH when you have hot chicks making out on camera.

I'll see you on Mystery Science Theater 3000.

Tom Servo says hello :-)

Anonymous said...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Where can we find this Frank Howard film?<<<

I have this movie in my own library but it also goes by the name of "The Other Side of Madness" and there were some clips on Youtube but Youtube often pulls them for copyright issues.

It's a low budget film, but considering when it was done and that the director claims that drugs are the problem is pretty damn amazing considering all of the crazy antics that were going on at that time.

The music in the film was far out and it's a must see for anyone into the nostalgia of the times.

katie8753 said...

>>>Cease said: Mary Brunner had a lamb, It smashed her in the face">>>

HA HA HA. Good one Cease!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

The drug motive intrigues me.

I've discussed the drug motive many times on blogs, but I've yet to see it portrayed in a movie.

I'm gonna look further into that movie, when I have the chance.

Maybe find a copy, and write a review...

katie8753 said...

Lynyrd said: If you're looking for facts, documentary, learning, or anything historically revealing... you'll be disappointed.

If you're looking for a night out, and some entertainment... you might enjoy it.

Yeah, you might enjoy it if:

1) You're in a coma
2) You're deaf
3) You're blind
4) You're from Mars and don't speak English
5) You're forced to at gunpoint
6) You died and can't find the light
7) You slipped and fell and a nail went thru your brain, and all you can do is make gurgling sounds and move one toe on your left foot or
8) All of the above.

Anonymous said...

Nimrod said ...The music in the film was far out and it's a must see for anyone into the nostalgia of the times.

Yeah Nimrod, as I recall it's got some tracks by The Music Machine in it. An underrated,overlooked 60s band if ever there was one.

katie8753 said...

Hey since we're not using facts for the script, let's add this:

George Spahn morphs into a supervillian. He's still blind, but like Geordi La Forge, he can wear a VISOR and still see perfectly.

Instead of a "hippy cult leader", Spahn will be more of a "beatnik cult leader". Charlie is just his whipping boy, trimming horse hooves and cleaning up dung.

George largely orders his followers to sit around and listen to strange poetry, then snap their fingers in appreciation. Which is followed by lots of Man/Girl love.

Maybe Susanna Lo can snap up Jack Nicholson to play the part, if he's not too busy cleaning up his burned down house.


Anonymous said...

Cease2 said...

>>>as I recall it's got some tracks by The Music Machine in it. An underrated,overlooked 60s band if ever there was one.<<<


That was part of the genious of this film was how Frank Howard worked in the psychedelic music of the Sound machine to fit certain scenes.

Dark White was a Thomas Bonnewell tune that Frank Howard masterfully used which made the movie seem almost real in its effect.

It's not the kind of movie for everyone, but it was the "First" Manson Family story that made it to film and was perhaps the most accurate in terms of motive.

It's a lost classic, but even if you don't like the film, the music itself sells it.

I liked both aspects of the film.

The thing was banned from showing in LA too - who else can make that claim in terms of Manson related movies?

Gotta Love It !

Anonymous said...

Katie said ..."you might enjoy it if:
6) You died and can't find the light"

HA! I'm lovin' that! Do you write all your own material?

Anonymous said...

Nimrod said ..."You have the only film that gives REAL footage of Spahn Ranch prior to the wildfires of 1970 and his theme was that the murders were related to drugs which is DEAD ON."

Can you expand on the "related to drugs" thing, Nimrod?

katie8753 said...

Starship I have to agree with you. The 70's Helter Skelter movie with Steve Railsback was the best so far. All the rest have been pointless drivel.

lurch said...

You can find "The Helter Skelter Murders" on amazon. Used copies are as cheap as $2.

Still don't understand why no one seems capable of making a decent film on the whole TLB story. Seems like Hollywood for some reason tends to avoid this subject like the plague!

Maybe we can talk Rob Zombie into tackling this one.

katie8753 said...

Hi Lurch! That's an excellent idea. Rob Zombie or maybe Quentin Tarentino.

Now those two would make a good movie! LOL.

katie8753 said...

Hi Bobby!!

Is it any good??

Mrstormsurge said...

Is the guy playing Manson the same guy who played the leader of the "Family" in Devil's Rejects? Bill Moseley? I believe so. Good actor. He's basically already played this role though.

Mary said...

it is available on Netflix DVD under "The Helter Skelter Murders"

Mary said...

it has very, very bad reviews

katie8753 said...

Okay I watched part 1 of 9 and 4 of 9 of On The Other Side of Madness, and the gun is wrong.

It's too slow moving. One of those artsy films I guess. Not much dialogue.

They're depicting Sharon dancing to the Blue Danube. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be a movie she's in or not.

The Blue Danube is a waltz, 3/4 time, and they're dancing 2/4 time. Stupid.

This is just another movie that doesn't know any of the facts.

katie8753 said...

Hi Stormy.

Bill Moseley is playing Manson in the Manson Girls movie.

They had originally written the script without Manson. I guess they thought they might add him. HA HA.

katie8753 said...

Hi Mary.

I did rent this movie on Netflix. It sucks through a straw.

It was probably the most boring film, Manson or otherwise, that I've ever sat through.


Mary said...

yeah, I probably won't rent it...but thought I would let eveyrone know where the full version is available since I cannot find part 2 - 3 on youtube

katie8753 said...

Thanks Mary!

I still think the 70's Helter Skelter movie is the best. Steve Railsback did a good job in that movie, along with the supporting cast.

It was a good script and kept to the facts, which is important to me. I have that movie on DVD.

I will say that I watched that movie on TV when it was first broadcast, it was a 2-part movie, and I was interested in it because I knew of the Manson murders because I lived through it and followed it in the papers every day back in 1969 and 1970.

And watching that movie scared me to death. It was well done and well acted, with seasoned actors/actresses who took direction well.

katie8753 said...

I just saw a commercial for the movie Martha Marcy May Marlene, and it looks like a damn good movie.

It really echoes Manson with his girls. In one scene, he tells her "you're my favorite".

Like Stephanie???

Which reminds me of a new thread. LOL.

katie8753 said...

>>>Cease said: Katie said ..."you might enjoy it if:
6) You died and can't find the light"

HA! I'm lovin' that! Do you write all your own material?>>>

Yes indeedy. I've got a million of 'em. But if I posted them all at once, it would be too much to take.


katie8753 said...

Jimmy, I've gotta say one thing.

One thing you and I do have in common is MST3K.

I've got them all on DVD. Love that show!!

I never thought that Joel could be replaced...but Mike stepped in nicely.

Crow, Servo & Gypsy. Along with Torgo.

"Well I called Togo's Pizza, and they were busy, so I had to order from Torgo's Pizza".


LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thanks everyone for their input.

I think I'll go Lurch's route, and grab an Amazon copy for two bucks.
The film has a certain nostalgia feel to it... and the soundtrack looks good.
Maybe I'll upload the whole thing, if anyone's interested...

I'm not so much worried about the bad reviews.
It seems any movie remotely depicting the truth, would probably get bad reviews anyway.

Most importantly...
I have to wonder if (missing) parts 2&3 on Youtube, aren't the most important parts of the movie... as far as, motive build-up.
I say that, because they don't even get into the actual killings until part 6 of 9, on Youtube.
Part 1, is essentially an intro... parts 2 and 3, are probably the meat of the whole film. LOLOL

One has to wonder anyway....

What else could they possibly be doing, except defining a motive?

I guess I'll find-out either way... and add another movie to my collection.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Jim can be very interesting, and informative.... when he stays on-topic, and puts his fanaticism, and feuds aside...

v717 said...

Forget about that stupid film. This film is 10 000 times better. In this clip we see the Manson girls in searching for the bottomless pit. One of the girls qoute´s Manson: "Everything begins and ends at exactly the right time and place."
And the pipes of Pan that is playing is said to make young girls dazed and seasick.

Anonymous said...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

>>>Jim can be very interesting, and informative.... when he stays on-topic, and puts his fanaticism, and feuds aside...<<<

Parts 2 and 3 i thought were the most interesting because it goes into family life.

This is where you get to see Spahn Ranch "As it was" and I could swear that old man Spahn himself had a cameo spot in this film becasue there's a segment where you can see a girl walk an old man outside of the ranch who looks like a dead ringer for old man spahn.

The film wasn't released until the trials were in progress but it was shot back when alot of facts weren't even known.

We know that Robert Hendrickson was at Spahn around the time of the trials and i wonder if he knew about this film being shot up at Spahn at one point.

The group was picked up in the October 10th and 12th raids up at Barker so the the filming would have had to have taken place sometime between Dec 1969 - Sep 1970 because the old ranch burned down in Spetember of 1970 if i recall that date correctly. Perhaps Pristash can double check that for me.

In any event, this movie which was essentially considered one the "exploitation" films was really the first of its kind to touch base on this case.

The railsback film was more drama based and came at a time when certain facts had been established.

The Frank Howard film was done while these people were in custody and perhaps while they were still appearing before judge's.

I'd love to see the actual timeline of when this movie was done to where we were in the case at that time.

I love the old ranch footage and the psychedlic music. To me, that makes the film. The guy who played Tex i thought seemed like the real deal and even Susan's character was pretty good.

All in all, for a low budget film, i liked it. Its better than anything John Waters put out i'll say that much.

But at the end of the movie, as Bobby had stated, is where you see the drug message just as the group was heading towards the LaBianca home.

The message here was Drugs and considering when this film came out, i think Frank Howard did pretty good with piecing together the story of how this went down.

The "Manson in Control" theme i overlook because that's what the DA was pushing at the time and that's what the media was putting out. Some of that carried over into Frank's film, but his film was the 1st of the Manson Family stories to be told.

It's not for everyone, but i can't resist the old nostalgia of the times and that makes the film for me.

Suzanna Lo is obviously going to give it the Lesbian spin in her flick, but she'll make her money. You won't get anything that resembles the truth, but you will get lots of entertainment i'm sure.

I prefer the real deal.

if anyone is familiar with Frank Howards film, was that Old Man Spahn being led around outside of the ranch? It sure looked to me like old George.

Anonymous said...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

One more note to ponder over .... In this Frank Howard film, when they're going over the Helter Skelter theory, Charlie makes a reference to the "City Under The Earth" and how he would lead them all there.

This is something that Paul Watkins laid out in detail for Vincent Bugliosi.

It's also a taboo subject that nobody wants to talk about.

Just know that this film, which is the very first Manson Family story, mentions the city under the earth.

When i mention this, you think i'm batshit crazy, but here it is in film at a time when the trials were going on.

In death valley, Charlie had Leslie and some of the other girls searching for caves and seraching for the Devils hole.

I mentioned a book called "Death Valley Men" that was written back in the 1930's which tells the story of a group of miners who found a subterrainian city in death valley and claimed to have taken some treasure from it. They claimed the entrance was at the bottom of an old mine shaft.

I also showed you a video that was done by National Geographic which shows you that death valley contains one of the largest underground aqua systems in the world which ties into what Paul Wakins was saying about this city and how there was a large underground lake.

In any case, i think you can see what i'm getting at.

There's more to the death valley saga than we know of.

Just remember that the story of the "city under the earth" begins here in the Frank Howard film.

Coincidence? no.

This is the kind of story that a guy named Art Bell would have been interested in.

If you remember me for one thing skynyrd, remember me for the phrase, "Jesus was an Alien".

A new tribe of 144,000 people to inherit a new earth in a post-apocolyptic, helter skelter, world.

We're on the threshold of Armageddon now and the 6th angel is about to sound the trumpet.

What they were preparing for, we're going to see come to pass.

Anonymous said...

Remember how hollywood also hints at things that are happening, or are going to happen ...

Here's a clip that i had come across which oddly enough has 2 words that caught my ear: "Cult", "Aliens".

also happens to be a stoner clip, vintage hippie stuff.

beauders said...

i do not know if that was george spahn either. the film does have an interesting history though. when the film was completed and about to be released roman polanski and warren beatty went and bought all the copies (or so they thought) and burned them. one has to wonder why they would do this. was something in the film revealed that polanski did not want anyone knowing about or was he a grieving husband who did not people watching his wife and child be butchered?

beauders said...

another interesting bit is that the film was discovered sometime in the 1980's and made it's debut at satanic rally in s.f. at the strand theatre on 8-8-88. this rally was intended to celebrate the death of the hippie movement in general and sharon tate specifically. when the film was shown the crowds cheered during the depiction of tate's murder. sadly, mrs. tate was still alive and found out about the cheering and was shocked that anyone would do that. the rally was instituted by none other nikolas schreck, zeena lavey and their friends.

Anonymous said...

Beauders - Everything about this case is fishy.

My personal opinion ..... Not only was there a coverup on the part of the LAPD, i also believe that it goes even higher right up to the halls of Govt.

Nixon's own comments were unusual, but the ENTIRE story about death valley was Dead on Arrival.

The theme was "Charles in Charge".

It seems like California has a big secret that they want to see remain hidden.

The death penalty overturn was also no coincidence.

There were 2 bushes at the Ceremony that Anton Lavey held when he placed his infamous curse on the hippie movement on the very night of the Tate murders and you had Ronald Reagan as Governor.


Anonymous said...

Anyway, have some things to do.

Skynrd - Keep an open mind.

What seems crazy on the surface usually has some kind of foundation in merit underneath.

Watch the film and see what you can pick up from that.

Gotta run for now.

Anonymous said...


I also want you to hear the words of the Governor of the State of California, at the time Charles Manson and his band were arrested in Death Valley, who would later go on to become President of the United States.

I also want to remind you of a man named Phil Schneider who told an amazing tale of a battle that took place in Dulce New Mexico between US forces and Alien Grays.

Phil Scheider spoke out about this battle that took place in the early 70's and exposed the Govt's involvement in the building of these deep underground military bases which brought them into conflict with the Grays who themselves had bases down below.
Phil schneider was murdered because of his having gone public with this information.

Listen to these two videos because there's a story here that's being covered up.

Anonymous said...

Here's Katy Perry of the Hollywood Music scene glorifying ET's as if it was some kind of "Coming Out" message.

They openly talk about the Grays and the Reptilians as if they are admitting that they are a part of of social fabric now and always have been.

The inhabitants of the underground city that Paul watkins spoke of could genetically engineer a new race of human beings based on the DNA of those members who escpaed to that world below the earth; a new hybrid race of 144,000.

Behold, Genesis.

Anonymous said...

What i also find extremely interesting is how nobody from the media, including Geraldo, in all of these years would not even bring up the subject about what he was looking for in death valley.

Paul watkins laid it all out for Bugliosi and it became a taboo subject right after that.

Only once did i hear Steven Kay mention this in a mockingly fashion when we know that the devils hole does exist and that the underground aquasystem also exists.

This part of the story is fenced off but yet so many clues and hints from so many people in govt circles keep coming to light.

In the Frank Howard film, this is the only film where the City under the earth is mentioned.

In the other Manson films, nobody touches it. It's taboo; off limits.

They focus on the crimes.

The words that came from the mouth of then Govenor/President Ronald Reagan are quite telling.

It seems like California has a secret its been hiding and, in todays world, people like Katie Perry are unvealing that dark secret.

I called it, "The Lost Exodus to Death Valley".

What do you think that Manson would have done had he found that lost city that he was looking for Skynyrd?

Would they have ever been arrested or would they simply disappeared like so many others have?

Think about it. There's more than enough here to prove that what i'm telling you is real.

Anonymous said...

katie8753 said...

>>>Jimmy, I've gotta say one thing.

One thing you and I do have in common is MST3K.<<<

I'm an old PBS channel 13 fan from back in the day when they used to run alot of BBC programs like Fawlty Towers and another science fiction program called the Tripods.

I used to watch Benny Hill and Paul Hogan on that channel too along with a Space exploration program called "Cosmos" that was narrated by Dr Carl Sagan, one of my favorite programs.

Channel 13 was the last haven for people who still had a mind that functioned. What passes for television today is more like brainwashing for the weakminded.

I walked away from television many years ago and watch dvd's as the spirit moves me.

But MST3K is a classic. I used to love that shit. That was some funny stuff.

On the island here we used to have a local program called Industrial Television or ITV. It had two crazy stoner hosts and you'd see all kinds of crazy film clips and commercials from the 50's up through the 70's. It was twisted, but it was something that used to run every saturday night so it had like a cult following back here.

The joys of a mispent youth.

Anonymous said...


If you think that MST3K was wild, check out this clip and you'll see what Industrial Television is like:

They used to run this kind of stuff every Saturday night here on the island.

adam said...

I love The Helter Skelter Murders DVD! It has a realistic documentary style feel to it. Almost as if you are there watching the events unfold. Another little known treasure is The Manson Movies. No sound, it takes the premise that all those rumoured lost home movies the Family shot at the ranch and the desert have been assembled together.

starship said...

Yes, sad to say I spent money on both the Manson Home Movies and the Helter Skelter Murders, which I first saw part of through binoculars with no sound at an old drive-in in the early 1970s...

I'l have to watch it again, because Jim syas its good, I'll try to give it a good look, but I couldn't get over how quietly everyone meets their deaths. Steven Parent gulps and he and Tex stare at each other for what seems like forever before Tex pulls the trigger. Somehow I say to myself, I don't THINK so...

Anonymous said...

This is the first time I have heard of this film- and it it is exactly the type of thing I crave to find- new to me- and an authentic look at the times and the feel for the era...

it is much more valuable to me for this than as a movie true to the facts of the case...

and it very valuable to me to learn of something like this...

Very excited to go check it out

Hell- I watch Mondo Hollywood over and over lol


katie8753 said...

Hi everybody! Lots of good stuff here. Don't know where to start.

Beauders, I'd read that about Roman & Warren buying up copies of the movie and try to be rid of it. I'd forgotten all about it until you mentioned it.

How do you know all this stuff?? Amazing! Thanks for sharing! :)

katie8753 said...

Thanks Jimmy. I'd seen Industrial TV before. It's funny too, but I like MST3K better. I guess because it's just one movie they're watching and I don't have to pay a lot of attention to it. LOL.

I also liked SCTV back in the 70's.

katie8753 said...

We're talking about so many movies I'm getting confused. :)

V717, what movie are you talking about? Adam, Starship, Circumstance, are you talking about the movie that Jimmy mentioned or some other movie????

Anonymous said...

Im talking personally about the movie Nimrod spoke of which I have never heard about before...

katie8753 said...

Thanks St!

If anyone's interested, here is Mondo Hollywood, I think in its entirety. It's almost 2 hours. I didn't know you could upload that much on You Tube. LOL.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Beauders said:
>>>>"when the film was completed and about to be released roman polanski and warren beatty went and bought all the copies (or so they thought) and burned them. one has to wonder why they would do this. was something in the film revealed that polanski did not want anyone knowing about".<<<<


I'm going to secure a copy of this movie.
It won't be today or tomorrow, but I will... and, I'll watch it closely.

If it's promising, I'll upload the film for everyone's viewing, and input.

A couple things intrigue me:

It is curious, that Polanski tried to eliminate this film.
Maybe (as Jim relates), the film suggests foul-play (drugs), on the part of the victim(s)?
We'll see...

The fact that this movie was made so close to the actual murders (I feel), lends some credence.
Usually accounts of anything (even a car accident), are most reliable early-on.
Sometimes I even question Manson's ability to accurately recall events at this point.
After 40+ years, one has to wonder how accurate Manson's memory actually is.
Is it possible that Manson is not always intentionally elusive?
I think so.
A movie filmed "back then" should prove interesting.

Bing said...

I think Roman would be able to make a helluva good Manson Family movie

katie8753 said...

Lynyrd, why would Warren Beatty care about the movie?

katie8753 said...

Bing I was thinking that too. Wouldn't that be ironic if Roman made the movie? Talk about not sticking with the facts. LOL.

All the girls he hired for the movie would probably be under 16, if you get my drift. HA HA.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Katie asked:
>>>>"Lynyrd, why would Warren Beatty care about the movie?"<<<<

I have no idea.
Maybe Beauders can expound on that point...

As for me... I couldn't begin to tell ya.

MrPoirot said...

Manson movies have apparently become genre movies like cowboy movies. Ya get some horses and cowboys and a few fake indians an walk aound shooting at each other and drinking wiskey at 10am. Only in the Manson genre you get a dude with shaggy long hair spoutin ethereal bs and a few girls making out with each other with Hendrix music in the background. It helps to throw in a few stabbings every 5 minutes. It doesn't matter who stabs who.

katie8753 said...

Mr. P., you got that right!!! HA HA HA.

v717 said...

Are you saying that the grays are coming?
Katie 8753
I was talking about this film.

katie8753 said...

Thanks V717.

You don't have to call me Katie8753. You can just call me Katie. I know who you're talking to. :)

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Mr. Poirot...

It seems your assessment is not only somewhat entertaining, but somewhat accurate.

These movies are becoming "a dime a dozen", as it were...

v717 said...

Then it´s Katie from now on.

katie8753 said...

V717, that's called "Picnic at Hanging Rock". It's only 10 minutes and 37 seconds long. It can't be the whole movie.

Is Picnic at Hanging Rock the name of the entire movie? Also, how is this related to the Manson saga?

Sorry to tell you I didn't watch the whole scene. Would you mind expounding on the entire movie, the plot, the background references, etc?

v717 said...

Picnic at Hanging Rock is a 1975 Australian feature film directed by Peter Weir and starring Anne-Louise Lambert, Helen Morse, Rachel Roberts and Vivean Gray. The film is adapted from the novel of the same name, by author Joan Lindsay.

The film relates the story of the disappearance of several schoolgirls and their teacher during a picnic to Hanging Rock in Australia on St. Valentine's Day in 1900, and the subsequent effect on the local community.
The novel as well as the film has reach cult status and has been very debated regarding the plot.
The musical reccurent theme in the film is Gheorghi Zamphir´s suggestive pipes of Pan.
The God Pan in the ancient Greece Mythology had the power to create panic among men and associate´s often with solitariness places such as mountains and deserts.
Manson said that the highest form of conscious is panic or fear. Manson and the girls lived in the desert and explored the rocks in searching for the Devils hole and the Bottomless pit. And what are the girls doing in the clip? They are also searching for something.

beauders said...

i have no idea why beatty was involved i assumed just being a good friend but then again maybe polanski was holding something over his head. remember beatty, brynner, and sellers were the friends of polanski who put up the reward money these and are the same men who are rumored to have starred in an erotic romp with cass elliot and filmed by polanski.

Anonymous said...

v717 said...

Are you saying that the grays are coming?<<<

It's alot deeper than that.

It's been said that this planet has been occupied by extraterrestrials going back throughout recorded history.

In the American Soutwest, and in Central America with the Aztecs peoples, there are depictions of alien figures along with hyrogliphs on the ground that can only be seen from high altitudes.

These exist and nobody can deny that they exist.

Phil Schneider said, in one of his interviews, that the "Grays" in particular have had deep underground bases here in America for more than hundreds of years and there are all kinds of stories about US Cavalrymen coming across some kind of cave that they claim where they claim strange beings had been seen.

There are theories that claim that man is a genetically modified hybrid creation that another race of beings had brought forth to serve their needs.

The book called "Death Valley Men" talks about a group of miners who had stumbled across one of these underground cities somewhere near the border of death valley in Nevada.

Charles Manson was looking for just such a city during his excursion with some of his group members where they believed they would stay and emerge as a new tribe of 144,000 that would inherit a post apocolyptic world.

Paul Watkins was certainly onboard with this as he was the one who laid this out for Vincent Bugliosi and this "City Under The Earth" was also mentioned in the Frank Howard Movie, "The Helter Skelter Murders".

Vincent Bugliosi certainly bought into what Charles Manson and his group was looking for and tried to use it to portray Manson as a deranged individual but any mention of this city and what they were looking for became a taboo subject.

None of the other Manson films even mention this city nor does it come up when the raids at barker ranch are talked about.

Charlie had some of the girls looking in caves and and actually doing searches for the entrance to this city which he believed was a cave where a large subterranian lake was.

Thanks to the video footage from the discovery channel, we know that there is a large aqua system at a place called the Devils Hole which is one of the largest freshwater aquasystems in the world spanning some 40,000 square miles.

It was also stated that divers dove down to a depth of 400 feet and didn't see a bottom.

So there's definitive proof of what Charles Manson was looking for in Death Valley actually existed.

Anonymous said...


I've mentioned this before and the people here think i'm crazy, but the search for this underground city also cuts into an area that the US Govt doesn't want anyone playing around with.

If you're going to take a group of people and hide in the desert in a deep underground city for 50 years or so and plan to emerge as a new tribe of 144,000 that will inherit a post apocolyptic world, how would one accomplish that?

Perhaps with a little help from the occupants of that underground city?

What i find interesting is how Vincent Bugliosi used this fabled tale as a way to discredit Manson and his group even though they were seriously looking for this place while death valley.

Nobody stops to actually analyze how that's possible to achieve what Paul Watkins had laid out for Bugliosi, but yet nobody ever talks about the reality of what they were searching for.

Charles Manson, the Strange in a Strange Land.

I'm sure that the then Governor of the State of California, Ronald Reagan, was probably very well aware of what could be found out there if one looked hard enough. His speech to the United Nations on extraterrestials was damning proof that he knew of something that was fobidden to be spoken of.

Phil Schneider spoke of it and was murdered for what he let leak out.

Look at people in attendence in 1969 during Anton LaYveys ceremony where he placed a curse on the hippie movement; George Herbert Walker Bush and his son George W Bush. Both Satanists. Both men would go on to be future US Presidents.

Governor Ronald Wilson Reagan was serving the people of the state of California - another Satanist and future US President.

What was a taboo subject back in those days is only now just being pushed into the light on the American people.

Katie Perry singing about ET's and television programs from the 80's like "V" which shows reptilian like aliens in human form.

What this shows us is that these beings where here long before we were and that we are not who we think we are.

It may very well be that mankind is nothing more than a genetically modified hybrid creation of another race.

The concept of creating a new race through bio engineering wasn't the theme back in 1969 but it was perhaps the answer for showing how one could emerge into the bottomless pit and return as a new race to inherit a new post apocylptic world.

Sure, it sounds crazy, but it isn't if you understand science or an appreciation of the works of Robert Heinlein.

Anonymous said...


I have never once heard any interviewer bring up the subject of what Charles Manson and his group were looking for while they were out in Death Valley; not even from Geraldo.

When people here about the bottomless pit and the underground city and how they planned on staying there to escape helter skelter, people turn their heads in disbelief as if they're listening to complete nonsense. Nobody even wants to get into it but yet it's the most critical piece of this whole saga because this was how they planned on riding out Helter Skelter and they believed it.

I've heard Steven Kay, in his parole commentary, talk about how Manson had rented scuba equipment because he knew that the entrance to this underground city was in a cave that had a deep underground lake.

Steven Kay also mentioned something about Manson getting golden rope that he was going to lower himself down into the pit with.

So when you listen to Steven Kay and Paul Watkins, you have to ask yourself why nobody has ever spoken to Manson on an interview and said,

"Charlie, tell me about what you were looking for out in Death Valley and How you planned on leading this new race of people back to the world post Helter Skelter. How were you going to accomplish that?"

I've never hear any interviwer bring this subject up at all when its such a definitive part of their survival plan.

Why is that?

Who is it that didn't want this subject talked about and perhaps still doesn't?

Why was the death penalty in the state of california overtuned when it was? Was it luck? or perhaps was it payback for a deal made?

Not even Geraldo would touch this one.

Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Anonymous said...

katie8753 said...
Lynyrd, why would Warren Beatty care about the movie?

Maybe cos Beatty was doing the movie "Shampoo", based directly on Sebring; hairdresser to the stars. That's all i can think of.

beauders said...

"shampoo" came out in 1975, long after beatty and polanski burned the copies of the films.
also nimrod i've heard these theories before but never heard the bush' family was involved with lavey could you give me a source i would like to look it up. one family the bush' were associated with was the hinkley's, they were neighbors and involved in business together. remember john hinkley tried to assassinate ronald reagan this is the same family. it i rumoured reagan's cabinet members stood around and tried to figure out if they should let him live or not in the hospital before reagan was wheeled into surgery.
also katie remember i have written an encyclopedia on everything to do with manson and the family.

Anonymous said...


If you look at this video segment from 1:15 - 2:23, you'll hear Helter Skelter being described and you'll also hear the mention of the "City under the earth" along with Manson talking about starting a "New Tribe".

Keep in mind that this is from the Frank Howard movie, which was the very first Manson Family movie, which was released at the time of the trials but was filmed when many of the facts of the case were not yet known.

What i've noticed is that, with every NEW Manson Family movie that comes along, we seem to get further and further away from the Truth as opposed to getting closer to it.

This too i believe is deliberately done.

Anonymous said...


Here is the link to the article that talks about Anton LaVey and the Bush Family Members at the ceremony on the night of August 8, 1969.

It reads:

"In the fateful night of 8 August 1969,a black-clad group gathered in a candle-it chamber to launch this venomous curse upon the hippie movement: 'Beware you psychedelic vermin! your smug pomposity with its thin disguise of tolerance will serve you no longer! We Know your mark and recognize it well. We talk the night as the villains no longer! Our steeds await and their eyes are ablaze with the fires of Hell'.

The Ceremony ,entitled the 'The Rising Forth' was led by Anton LaVey, High Priest of the Church of Satan and George H. Bush with the participation of young George W. Bush."

Anonymous said...


Another article of interest:


Bushes Human Sacrifices at the Kimball-Cherokee Castle
- Affidavit of Rev. Christian Jess A. LaVey, son of Anton LaVey, Founder of Church of Satan -
by Stew Webb, Aug 1, 2005

MrPoirot said...

If Charlie didn't find it- it ain't there.

Anonymous said...

beauders said...
"shampoo" came out in 1975, long after beatty and polanski burned the copies of the films.

Takes years from original idea to screen, as you know. Beatty had the original idea for it in 67 apparently, so it was no doubt being worked up into a story & script over the applicable years.

Not that I'm saying "Shampoo" was definitely his reason. More likely Beatty was helping his pal.

v717 said...

I don´t think you are crazy, but you are blowing my mind.
Do you have the whole text of "The Rising Forth?"

katie8753 said...

Beauders & Cease: Thanks for your input.

It might be that Polanski & Beatty just didn't want a film being done that soon after the murders which might be trashing people they cared about.

Beauders, I don't know about those alleged porno films. I'm still scratching my head over that one.

Cease, Beatty's connection to Sebring due to the film Shampoo could have something to do with it. He must have liked the guy if he wanted to do a film based on his occupation.

Anonymous said...


Here's another interesting link that goes into the dark side of the 60's and it also mentions how the Rolling Stones were involved with Lucifer Rising.

The Satanic Forces which began to germinate back in the late 60's have festered to become the New Age Religon of a Satanic New World Order in our time.

Anonymous said...


The point that I'm trying to hit on here is that the Bush Family, who was in attendence with Anton LaVey when he placed his infamous curse on the hippie movement, are the sole architcts for the emergence of a "New World Order" which is nothing more than a kingdom for the Antichrist to reign from and to enslave and subjugate humanity.

The name of the game here is "SATAN" and here is a link to another video that will show you just how demonically clever these people are.

Anonymous said...


If you understand anything of what america is resembling today, it has become a Corporate Fascist State that has been modeled on Nazi Germany.

The various FEMA camps that have been built all across the United States are enhanced versions of the German model that was common during WWII.

Prescott Bush, the Father of George Herbert Walker Bush and the Grandfather of George W. Bush had business dealings with the Nazi's in his tenure with a Wall Street Investing Banking firm when he was a partner.

The Bush Family, going back to the the very moment when Anton LaVey placed his infamous curse on the hippie movement became the instrument of America's destruction.

The Satanic backgrounds of these individuals have enabled them to become the disciples that will have ushered in the kingdom of the Antichrist that we're seeing unfold right before our eyes in today's world.

Revelation 9 - The Reign of the 6th Angel (Barak Obama - The Black Man who had risen)

We are rapidly approaching what you see here. It may be days away or maybe weeks.

13 - And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 - Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 - And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16 - And the number of the army of the horsemen [were] two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 - And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses [were] as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 - By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 - For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails [were] like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
20 - And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21 - Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Anonymous said...

The Rise and Fall of the 5th Angel of Revelations (Charles Manson)

1 - And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 - And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 - And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 - And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 - And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment [was] as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 - And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7 - And the shapes of the locusts [were] like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads [were] as it were crowns like gold, and their faces [were] as the faces of men.
8 - And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as [the teeth] of lions.
9 - And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings [was] as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10 - And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power [was] to hurt men five months.
11 - And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon.

12 - One woe is past (HINMAN); [and], behold, there come two woes more hereafter (Tate / LaBianca).

The end of the Reign of the 5th Angel. (Charles Manson)

His warning of the Black Man Rising appears to have come in the form of the 6th Angel of Revelations (Barak Hussein Obama) who will destroy the United States, and perhaps most of the world, in a 3rd World War.

Anonymous said...


This link contains the most damning material of all:

Check out the following sections within this link:

The Bush Family are Nazi Satanists

Dossier Pedophilie - Links members of the Bilderberg Group to Pedophilia and Satanism.

Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon photographed at Bohemian Grove. You'll also see that George Bush and karl Rove are also listed as members.

Also check out the section on Boyd Rice - The successor to Anton Lavey and his Church of Satan. Notice that Boyd Rice is a stone hearted National Socialist.

Anonymous said...

v717 said...

I don´t think you are crazy, but you are blowing my mind.
Do you have the whole text of "The Rising Forth?"<<<<

I was actually looking for this myself couldn't find anything about this text other than what we already know.

I have a personal belief that the title of this infamous curse that Anton LaVey set forth on the night of August 8, 1969 refers to the "Emergence of a Fourth Reich" here in America.

If you look at who was in attendeance, and the role the we already know that they played in history, it sure looks to me as if that's what the curse was all about.

The rise of a new Satanic Tyranny based on the model set in place by Nazi Germany.

The Bush Administration hired many of the East German Stazi members along with ex NKVD operatives from the former Soviet Union in an attempt to learn about how to subjugate or control large populations of people. Even Alex Jones has confirmed this.

The FEMA Camps exist and they were built to house large numbers of people. I also believe that many of these camps are death camps or extermination zones.

This Satanic New World Order is all about Population Reduction and they're the using the "Black Man" to bring it all down just as Charles Manson had once foretold of.

So we go from August 8, 1969 to the current day where Anton LaVey placed his infamous curse on the hippie movement and the Bush boys have done their part to bring about "The Rising Forth or 4th Reich" and now its up to the Black Man (Barak Obama) to fulfill his destiny in Revelation 9 as the 6th Angel of Revelations.

And you wonder why Charles Manson is where he is today and why the others are where they are today?

Behold, the 5th Angel of Revelations who foretold of the "Black Man Rising" and the destruction that will follow.

I kid you not. This is real and we're living in it and may die knowing that our suspicions were right all along.

v717 said...

I suggest that you go to David Mc Gowan´s page, "Center for an informed America" and read: Inside The LC: The strange but mostly true story of Laurel Canyon and the Birth of the Hippie Generation.
There are hidden thing,you know.

fiona1933 said...

I will be sorry if it is really so dreadful, because I thought Susanna Lo was really getting to the heart of the matter. I have often thought if I myself had been a teenager then, in the same place and time, how easily I could have gone for it all, the sense of belonging, the love, the feeling of sticking to society, etc.
I was glad to see someone not demonising the girls, showing how it could happen to so many. They were not evil, not monsters.

But if the film really hasn't stuck with the facts, then what was the point. And the Hinman clip: it just looks again as if Susan is enjoying the murder and having fun, when she testified in her book how she and Mary were in the kitchen, terrified, as Bobby stabbed Gary. But here, yet again, she is given this same fuck-you body language, hey look how I can strut like a man stuff, same as Helter-Skelter, both movies, and the Manson Family movie.

Why not at least make an attempt to capture the real Susan? Susan was incredibly insecure. She was always trying for attention by using her body. In those shots of her in the orange minidress, when the cops display her to the press, as she walks away, it's clear she has no knickers, and she wiggles her arse like she's in a strip-club.

Arraigned for murder, but she wants everyone to notice her bottom. Instead, she's portrayed like Karla Faye Tucker, striding around like a man, killing people and having an orgasm at the same time. Why not have the real girl? Much more shocking.

Bobby was the one strutting around after killing Hinman: "just like he got him a cherry" according to Danny DeCarlo.

Sigh...I will have to write my own movie. Anyone like to help?

fiona1933 said...

Lurch, I have written this before. why can't a good movie be made? because an audience must have a main character to empathise with, no matter how evil his deeds. Think of Macbeth. he does dreadful things, murders an old man in his bed, murders the little children of Macduff, but we don't hate him. We suffer with him, we go through his agony, his struggle not to do evil, to defeat his ambition, his failure, his ruin. we never think, Macbeth, what a bastard. This is how a story works.
But the Manson story, as it is known to the public, has no such character. Without all the mythology, well, maybe Charlie could have been a Macbeth figure. Maybe it could have been Susan: she is the one with the fatal flaw, her insecurity.
But unfortunately, only a truly brilliant film-maker could take the demonized Sadie and make her into a tragic hero.
Also, without the publicity, the story wouldn't be famous enough to warrant filming. So it is a catch 22: the very things that make it dramatic, all the 'evil' and the 'beautiful people' and the rest, make it unfilmable. No sympathetic central character.
That's why all these films have failed. It was tried to do it with no such character, cf, the 1977 Helter-Skelter. The remake cast Linda in this role, but she was so passive, she just drifted through the film. The Manson Family was enjoyable, but again it wasn't a movie, it was a whole new kind of genre: a pseudo-documentary. ( I really liked that one, must say).

No, it has to be Sadie, tragic hero, fatal flaw. I hoped Susanna Lo was doing this. Doesn't look like it. It may be impossible. although Macbeth is a great play to read, it isnt to watch. all the real action is in Macbeth's head. Can Sadie soliloquize to the film audience? Would it work? I doubt it.

Where is Shakespeare when you need him? I know who could do this. Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant. The Office, UK Office I mean, is Shakespeare good.

fiona1933 said...

for pity's sake, Nimrod, the book of Revelation refers to Rome. The writer is a puritanically minded Jew who is violently opposed to the decadence and luxury of Rome, no doubt because he couldn't get a good share of it. Every single one of these prophecies and anathemas has been traced to the existing christian groups. Mostly, the guy is hurling abuse at the Emperor or at other prophets or other Christians, as Christians have done since the very first apostles, as you can read in Acts.
Even the infamous 666 is a numerological reference to Nero.
When the New Testament was compiled, the authorities were very dubious about including Revelation. 2 reasons, one, it was written by someone very uneducated, who was really just sounding off. Two, they were afraid that it was just the sort of mystical nonsense that people would start applying meanings to. 7 angels, 10 plagues, whatever, people would fit these numbers to something, and what do you know, it's the end of the world as we know it.

Looks like those church elders were onto something, hmm? Incidentally, I thought 'Nimrod" meant "dickhead" as in: " Why would you think a raving madman's 200 year old rantings were specific and verifiable prophecy, you nimrod?"

Anonymous said...

Good posts, Fiona. You're right, there's a real Shakespearean tale in there somewhere. I guess the key to a good Manson film would be family & belonging as a theme, rather than the one dimensional boss-eyed loon & bloodthirsty sluts we usually get served up.

katie8753 said...
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katie8753 said...
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