Saturday, October 29, 2011

This New Movie should definitely prove interesting! 
"Martha Marcy May Marlene", Directed by Sean Durkin

Roger Durling,  October 31, 2011
"Martha Marcy May Marlene" is the enigmatic film by first-time writer/director Sean Durkin, whose Roman Polanski-esque debut full of paranoia and dread was rewarded with best director honors at the 2011 Sundance Film Festival.  The film deals with a young woman (played by Elizabeth Olsen, in perhaps the best big-screen acting debut in decades) who is trying to piece her life back together after escaping from a cult led by a Charles Manson-like character, portrayed phenomenally and frighteningly by last year’s Academy Award nominee John Hawkes.
Watch The Official Trailer Below...
video
John Hawkes: "It seems like every year there is an attempt to make a Charles Manson–type movie, and I have never wanted to be involved in those kinds of things even though I’ve been asked.  But when I read the script, the word “cult” was not really in the script, and it wasn’t about the leader. It was about this amazing young woman’s journey of what happens in the immediate aftermath in leaving a cult".

Sean Durkin: "There’s a line right at the beginning of the movie when she turns to her sister and asks, “How far are we from yesterday?” and then the movie cuts into a flashback.  The way you play with time is astonishing.
When someone is in a group like this, from what I understand, there are no clocks or calendars, so the idea of time gets completely lost.  Therefore, she’s left with this traumatic experience and trying to make sense of it, so she’s experiencing those events in her mind and the events in the present simultaneously.  As an audience, we feel like we’re down the rabbit hole with her".

"I spent time with someone who was in a cult. She is a friend of ours, and the way that she described it is that fear, that paranoia, that confusion, that inability to say what had happened, lying about where she had been — it was a basic survival mode, and that is what attracted me and got me really passionate"

79 comments:

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I'm really looking forward to this movie.

It certainly will NOT reveal any new facts specific to the TLB case... nor does it proport to.... but, it's "topical", and will feed my never-ending thirst for this kinda stuff.

I love "Dead Man Walking"... "The Shawshank Redemption"... "Drugstore Cowboy"... "Natural Born Killers"... etc., etc.

If you're a "cult junkie" like me... this should prove to be a really good take...

Peace... Lynyrd.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

And yes... this one is really going to happen! LOL

katie8753 said...

This looks like a very interesting movie. It says release date October 21, 2011. Not showing here yet.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I read the movie is starting in some California locations, November 4th.

Things usually start out west, and move east.

This will probably hit my area around Thanksgiving.

katie8753 said...

I think that seeing this movie just might give some insight as to why one joins a cult.

It might throw some light on why a plain, established librarian would run off with a dirty, streetwise con man just because he says he loves her.

But...in the review I read, there's not much 'splaining by the "ruined girl".

There are some awkward moments, when MMMM has to find out the hard way that it's NOT okay to climb in bed with her sister and her husband, even though it was perfectly acceptable in "cultland".

And she does have trouble accepting the fact that the shoes and clothes she wears belong only to her, having been used to the "communal pile" of filthy clothes she was used to wearing.

But it should be worth watching anyway.

katie8753 said...

And...since there are no watches or calendars in "cultsville", our dubious heroine has a hard time trying to figure out what time or day it is.

Remedy? Ummm....buy a watch and a calendar. HA HA.

Kimchi said...

Hey Lynyrd, did it say "where" they were filming?

I was at a Denny's (LOL) this morning in Tejon Pass (north of LA, close to Bakersfield) and they were filming in the hills there..

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Kimchi!

No, the filming location wasn't mentioned.

Anyway... I'm sure what you observed, had to be something else.
The filming is already completed.

Also... the girl's "ordeal" takes place in Connecticut.
Although... whether they actually filmed "Connecticut" IN Connecticut, I have no idea. LOL

St. Circumstance said...

L/S-

check out " Into the Homeland"

Powers Boothe and C Thomas Howell

Best movie about cults I ever saw,

Guy owns a surf shop and gets contacted on day by his ex- wife that there daughter has gone missing from a cult- and he goes undercover to find her...

Great flic if you have never seen it....

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Saint.

"Into the Homeland".
I'll have to check that one out!
Thanks...

Venus said...

One thing I like about Elizabeth Olsen is that she actually has an expressive face, unlike her twin sisters who've rocked that "trout pout" expression for years. She's getting Oscar buzz for this film and has a few more coming out next year.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I agree Venus.

Mary-Kate and Ashley's best career moments have already passed... whereas, Elizabeth's best career moments, lie ahead.

The twins were childhood, small-screen novelties.
I mean... how much talent does it really take for a 4 year old girl, to look cute... and laugh at "Uncle Joey's" cheesy jokes? LOLOL
Elizabeth (on the other hand) may prove to be a true "leading lady" on the "big screen" in years to come... and for several years to come.
Real dramatic scenes, and real acting skills...

I don't follow the Olsen twins, as such (LOL)... but, the last photo I saw of them together, one of the twins looked pretty sickly. Anorexia? Who knows?
I think they're pretty much yesterday's news at this point.
It's all about Elizabeth now.

It's all about Elizabeth now, and her tight, sweet, perfectly-formed... LOLOL

But, I digress!! AHahahaha

: )

katie8753 said...

Okay I read in the National Enquirer (gulp) that Mary-Kate & Ashley offered to put Elizabeth up in a costly penthouse in NY, but Elizabeth doesn't want any help and wants to do it on her own, so she lives in a ghetto area somewhere in the Bronx.

Mary-Kate & Ashley weigh collectively 15 pounds. Every time I see a picture of them, they look ghoulish like they're dressing up for Halloween.

Okay....back to our regularly scheduled programming. HA HA.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

"Trout Pout"!! LOLOL

Good One... and very accurate.
That's EXACTLY what it looks like, huh?
...and yes, they "did it to death".

Venus said...

Yes, they have! Are their lips glued together when they see a photographer? I swear, no one needs to take any new photos of them because they've looked the same for the past several years. It's ridiculous. I'll bet their smile muscles have frozen by now.

Elizabeth has achieved the acting fame that they wanted. Good thing that they're successful in the business world!

Katie, I read the Enquirer story too. I admire her for wanting to make it on her own, but if the story's true, it's a dangerous neighborhood and she should acccept their help at moving her out of there. She could take a loan from them.

Regarding "Full House," I can't believe that I used to love that show. It was one of those annoying "awwwww" shows. The kids would say, "I love you, Daddy" and the audience would say "awwwww." Thekids would say, "I love you, Uncle Jesse" and the audience would say "awwwww." I think I got cavities from the nauseating sweetness of it. :-)

katie8753 said...

Venus, regarding Full House, I could definitely do with the gooey kids, but Uncle Jesse.....now he was FINE!! LOL.

Venus said...

Katie, you need to "HAVE MERCY!" LOL I remember John Stamos from his "General Hospital" days too. I think he looks better as he gets older!

katie8753 said...

Venus, he's definitely getting better looking every day! RRRRROOOOHHHHHHHHLLLLLLL!!!

Rebecca Romijn is an idiot. HA HA.

Venus said...

It's sickening how men look better as they get older. Well, some men, anyway.

I would've stayed with him, ohhhh yeahhhhhh! :-)

Venus said...

Uhhhhh, we've gone off topic! But, if we're going to go off topic, why not talk about John Stamos?? :-)

St. Circumstance said...

Happy Halloween to all my fellow freaks!!

katie8753 said...

>>>Venus said: Uhhhhh, we've gone off topic! But, if we're going to go off topic, why not talk about John Stamos?? :-)>>>

You betcha!!

Let's see....I'm trying to imagine John with his clothes off....ooooooppppsss! Thinking out loud again! HA HA.

katie8753 said...

Happy Halloween dear St. Circumstance.

And happy trick or treating to everyone!

TomG said...

HA HA HA!

I just had a tricks or treater wearing a Casey Anthony mask. She couldn't have been more than 7 years old...

I says, baby, she don't like little kids. She opened her halloween bag, as to say, give me candy you old fart. Nobody cares what you think.

HA HA HA! That made my night. HA HA HA!

katie8753 said...

Tom that's rich!! HA HA

I had read they were making Casey Anthony costumes. That's too funny!!!

TomG said...

There must have been 45-55 kids here tonight. The little girl with the Casey Anthony mask was the greatest! That makes my 2011 highlights reel!

At the risk of stirring up a hornets nest, I would remind everyone, that Susan Atkins, Leslie Van Houten and even Patty Krenwinkel, were once little girls, going house to house for tricks and treats.

They didn't ask to be born into the chaos that was the 1960's.

Just a thought.

katie8753 said...

>>>Tom said: At the risk of stirring up a hornets nest, I would remind everyone, that Susan Atkins, Leslie Van Houten and even Patty Krenwinkel, were once little girls, going house to house for tricks and treats.>>>

So were Sharon Tate and Abigail Folger. And most likely Rosemary LaBianca.

>>>They didn't ask to be born into the chaos that was the 1960's.>>>

And the victims didn't asked to be killed.

katie8753 said...

Steve Parent surely went out trick or treating in a little costume as well.

Susan, Pat & Leslie willingly chose to join Charlie's tribe of kill.

The victims never had a choice.

TomG said...

And I'm telling you that Rampage Watson killed all of those people. The girls didn't kill anybody.

Whatever shit they kept in that Gerbals jar under the boardwalk made the boy go nuts.

What is it with you West Texans? George Bush, Rick Perry and Jesus. Do I have it in the right order?

katie8753 said...

>>>Tom said: And I'm telling you that Rampage Watson killed all of those people. The girls didn't kill anybody.>>>

Tom, did you fall asleep and miss something????

Let's go over it a little at a time. I don't want to overwhelm you.

Let's see, at Cielo Drive, Pat chased Abigail Folger down and stabbed her as best she could, but she had the "crappy knife" that had a broken handle that "hurt her hand" so she needed big ole Tex to come in for the final kill.

Sadie tried as best she could to kill Frykowski but she was dorkish and a common feeb.

At the LaBiancas, Pat & Leslie corralled Rosemary, tied a lamp cord around her neck, put a pillow case on her, and Rosemary was so "bull-dykeish" that she overpowered those 2 melons and when they tried to stab her, again, Pat's knife hit a bone and broke.

Then they called in "good ole Tex". Good ole Tex stepped in and finished Rosemary off, but Pat managed to carve the word "WAR" in Leno's stomach and leave the carving fork in him. She thought it was funny when it wobbled.

And Miss Van Houten managed to stab Rosemary 16 times in the back.

Now you can say they didn't kill anybody, but they DAMN SURE TRIED!!!

>>>What is it with you West Texans? George Bush, Rick Perry and Jesus. Do I have it in the right order?>>>

No, Jesus should be first. HA HA.

Now if you want to join in on Harold Camp's bunch, I'm sure there's plenty of room. You can attend those "come to Jesus" meetings.

Just bring your own tent and water, cuz you might not want to be drinking after those fuckers...if you get my drift.

TomG said...

Sugarbush you don't have to give me a blow by blow account of what happened that weekend. I know.

And I'm still telling you, the girls didn't kill anybody. Rampage Watson killed all of those people.

Should I type slower?

You could have it on videotape in slow motion from 35 different camera angles and I am still not going to believe that these girls did anything wrong.

katie8753 said...

If you can call me "sugarbush" I can call you "limp dick".

>>>You could have it on videotape in slow motion from 35 different camera angles and I am still not going to believe that these girls did anything wrong.>>>

Are you INSANE???? Do you need a net thrown over you???? Do you need someone to tie a straitjacket around you???

Do you think it's INNOCENT for Pat to chase Abigail out the door and stab, stab, stab???

Do you think it's INNOCENT for Pat to carve WAR in Leno's stomach?

Do you think it's INNOCENT for Susan to round up folks at Cielo Drive with a knife?

Do you think it's INNOCENT for Susan to tell Sharon "You're gonna die bitch, get ready for it because there's nothing you can do about it".

Do you think it's INNOCENT for Pat & Susan to help Tex tie ropes around the victims' necks?

Do you think it's INNOCENT for Susan to try to stab Frykowski?

Do you think it's INNOCENT for Pat & Leslie to raid the fridge after the cold hard deaths of the LaBiancas? To raid Rosemary's closet? To steal her clothes while she's lying on the carpet gasping her last breath??? While the stench of blood is permeating over the house?

If you think all that is innocent, maybe you should join a cult.

That would answer all your questions.

I don't like you anymore. Fuck off!

leary7 said...

Don't poke the bear Tom.
Katie is one big old Mama Bear when it comes to TLB truth.
And she is dead on here. I mean there are tapes where Leslie and Pat in their own words express remorse for having taken a life. Can't ignore that.
Though I hate to admit, as long as I stay out of the line of fire, I love it when Katie gets riled and slamdunks the revisionist who want to rewrite TLB. You're the best, Katie.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I'm just getting home.

Happy Halloween to Everyone!

Great to see everyone... Katie, Venus, Tom, Saint and Leary!
That's a Halloween party ready to happen, if ever I saw one! LOLOL
Just kidding... you guys/gals all ROCK!
I'm glad everyone stopped-in.

I seriously can't believe kids are asking their parents for "Casey Anthony" masks this year... better yet... I can't believe the parents are buying them! AHahahaha
That's too much!
I'm sure I would have gotten a big kick out of it myself.

"What is the world coming to"? hahaha

Peace Everyone... Lynyrd

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I can sympathize with some of Tom's (past and present) thoughts.

I mean... these girls were kids once (just like us), and definitely weren't pre-destined to be murderers... as some would assert.
I do believe (as Tom has suggested previously)... in a different place and time... things may have turned-out much different for them.
It's actually likely... that things would have turned-out differently, under different circumstances.

When I see childhood photos of the girls, I do feel badly, that things turned-out the way they did for everyone... murderers, and victims.
I also feel some sympathy for Lynn... who didn't murder... but did indeed, flush the majority of her life down the toilet.
Lynn's just plain like-able.

I also believe Tex was instrumental.
I mean... if the girls went completely alone on those nights... un-accompanied by Tex... they (likely) would not have been physically capable of carrying-out all that killing.
I just don't think the girls could have "pulled-it-off" without Tex.
So yeah... Tex was the maniac, who made it all possible.
He was the "main killer"... regardless of what motive one adheres to.
If you eliminate Tex from the picture... those nights likely would never have "gone down" successfully... or at all.
(Well, assuming killing a whole lot of folks, is considered a success)

I'm basically with Tom there...

BUT... on the other hand. LOL

Katie's correct in that... they weren't in another place, at another time.... under different circumstances.
They were leading their lives, during the era, in which they were born... as we all have to.
They were making choices, and playing the hand they were dealt as they went along... again, as we all have to.
They also participated enough to be guilty of the crimes for which they are charged... albeit, less than Tex... but, still enough.
Tex is "most guilty"... no doubt.
But... the others are still guilty enough... to be in prison.

I do sympathize with the girls, as I believe the "family" experience (where they were victimiized) was the deciding factor, which ultimatley led them to prison.
I mean it sucks...
But... at the end of the day, Katie's right.
Unfortunately, they all made their own bed(s), and now they must lie in them.
Katie could be a "tad" more sympathetic to the girls... but, who's gonna convince her of that?? LOLOL

.... And as Marlin Marynik said (so aptly) regarding Charlie, in his television interview:
"How far can you carry empathy?"
Something to think about...

Peace... Lynyrd

St. Circumstance said...

If I may weigh in...

I feel baldy for all kids who have no strong parents in there lives, and are allowed to go so very far off the road..

Lack of strong role models, combined with absence of anyone to keep them in line when they wander- will usually lead to a sad ending in life of one kind or another for kids who have issues to begin with ...

But it doesn't always have to end up that way...

Plenty of people end up getting through the early years as hard as they are- and wind up alright...

even the ones with a lot of disadvantages...

What Katie Krenwinkle did is among the very scariest of things any human being could do to another...

Charlie - nor anyone could put what it takes to do something like that inside of a person....

She has to own that herself...

If you want to lock him next to her and credit him with half a point for an assist- I wont argue...

But this woman went way beyond what any normal person would do- even IF she was acting on orders...

She has a mode to her personality which ( aside from Tex) not too many people are capable of shifting into...

in fact the real cause for all of the fascination, and craziness that came out of this bizarre case may ultimately be explained by the mere coincidence that two of these types of people wound up in the same place and involved in the same crime...

katie8753 said...

You can say:

"I'm sorry I stepped on your prize-winning begonias".

"I'm sorry I backed into your Cadillac CTS and wiped out the front bumper".

"I'm sorry I didn't return the leaf blower I borrowed 2 years ago".

But you CAN'T say:

"Gee I'm sorry that I hacked your daughter/son/sister/mother/father/brother (choose one) to death and made the last moments of his/her life the most painful, horrendous and hideous that can even be imagined, for NO REASON AT ALL except that my hippy cult leader was pissed off.

Was that wrong? Guess maybe I shouldn't have done that."

That apology means nothing in my book.

katie8753 said...

Hi Leary! Good to see you.

Yes, you're right. I can take only so much pushing, then I have to push back.

Right or wrong, nobody will ever convince me that these girls are innocent. They've proven themselves otherwise, way beyond the course and scope of sanity.

katie8753 said...

Hi St! I agree with your entire post!

You don't "brainwash" someone for 2 years and have the kind of power over someone to make them do something that most people couldn't even dream of doing, much less willingly participate.

Pat Krenwinkel was not crazy when she joined the family. She wasn't a killer, but she had a sound mind. But in the very beginning she participated in stealing from her own father with his gas card. That shows me right there that she was willing and able to join into a group that participated in illegal activities, which only escalated as time went on. And she was a willing participant. Never thought twice.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Saint.

Thanks for your input.

It's certainly easier to "drum-up" a bit of sympathy for Leslie, than it is for Pat.
I like Pat... (now that is)... but, there's simply no justifying her actions.

Degree of sympathy/empathy... is one of those very subjective matters.
But, at the end of the day... these folks are right where they belong.

St. Circumstance said...

Having no background or training in Psychology it is hard for me to understand this ....

So many of those kids at Spahn ranch were loser, runaways with nothing going for them . The Scum of society type of people who would go on to live lives of crime and trouble....

Then you have one or two- who were raised by good people, who cared, and tried there best. These one or two would fit in at any school across the country- and could have been sitting right next to any of us at church, or school- good manners, nice clothes.....

So then- one of the most gory, notorious crimes of the century occurs, where the Criminals commit so of the most unthinkable evil acts...

And its the kids from the second group who are responsible???

That is the scariest part of all this to me...

Charlie couldn't get a scumbag like TJ to hurt anyone....

but he could convince the guy who sat next to me in Algebra to do that???

and the Girl in my science class to go that crazy????

Its the ones you cant see coming who are the most dangerous in my opinion...

St. Circumstance said...

more so even than if Charlie was responsible for them doing that...

is that people with there backgrounds are CAPABLE of that...

St. Circumstance said...

Here is why I have the LEAST Sympathy for LULU

I have said often- she is my favorite lol

I think she did know what they were doing was wrong, and I think she was scared Shitless to actually stick someone

AND SHE DID IT ANYWAY!!!!!!

it mattered to her that much to fit in with those people....

As well- I dont think for one minute she ever considered she would have to pay with her life for what she did...

If you watch all of the parole hearings ( as I have)

and all the interviews she has done ( as I have )

You can literally watch her go through the change of realization...

early on- she was convinced she would get out in her 30's and she is smiling and happy go lucky all the time...

as the years go on- she looks more and more resigned to what happened and that the price will be...

along with the natural aging- you can see the time slowly drain the sparkle out of her eyes...

She never really got it- about a lot of things...

but she knew what was going down at the Labiancas that night...

and she went and she acted...

so now she pays

St. Circumstance said...

The only members of this group who really deserve unconditional sympathy are Ruth and Diane- who were too young and defenseless to do anything other than what they were told...

Had they killed anyone- I would have there parents locked up personally

starship said...

Hey, all,

I've met a lot of celebrities over the years in my line of work, and Dave Coulier who played Uncle Joey Gladstone on FULL HOUSE I've actually met and spent time with twice now...and he is the single nicest celebrity you'd ever want to meet...very down to earth, friendly, talkative...etc. But I hope I get to meet him again because I forgot to ask him about his producer from FH...Franklin? He's the dude who owns Villa Bella on the site of the ols 10050 Cielo Drive. Wonder if he ever was up there and if he was, what he thought, did they discuss, etc....

But, yes, this movie may be an excellent addition to the canon.

katie8753 said...

St. Circumstance, you make some very good points. It's hard to know how Charlie could get certain people to do terrible things, and others refused. I guess it's just a matter of how much "moral fiber" someone possesses.

>>>The only members of this group who really deserve unconditional sympathy are Ruth and Diane- who were too young and defenseless to do anything other than what they were told...>>>

Agreed!!! Ruth and Diane were dumped on these people and have no fault.

katie8753 said...

Hi Starship!

I didn't know that the producer of FH owns the property that used to be 10050 Cielo Drive. Interesting!

If you do find anything out, please let us know! :)

leary7 said...

good girls becoming bad girls.
good girls falling for bad boys.

were they 'good girls' to begin with, or was faulty wiring there from the start?
were Charlie and Tex and Bobby pre-destined to be 'bad boys'?

or was it all "set and setting" as Timothy Leary used to say.

I will forever wonder if Charlie and Stephanie had just taken off for Woodstock instead of going back to Spahn, how the world might be different visa vi the hippie movement. It TLB didn't kill the free love movement, it certainly castrated it.

leary7 said...

and like you Lynyrd, I too have an impulse to sympathize with Tom's thesis. I think most of us would like to believe the girls less culpable than the vile Tex.
But when the girls themselves talk about their remorse for having taken a life it seems farfetched to assert they did no killing.

speaking of the vile Tex, nobody in their right mind could should or would defend or sympathize with the ultimate idiot, but I do confess that I have contemplated a particular moment from time to time from a storytellers perspective. It was that moment when Tex had walked across the desert headed towards Barker after having come back from Hawaii. He was headed to rejoin Charlie and the family when after walking for a long time he just stopped in his tracks, said he felt the darkness and just turned around and walked the other way and called his parents back in Texas. It just goes to show that even the devil himself apparently can have a human moment. Especially when he runs out of drugs.

St. Circumstance said...

I am tempted to think it is in the wiring myself....

Not qualified to say for sure...

but it has to be something inside that not everyone has to do those kind of killings... to stare at a body long enough to carve words into it- isn't just your run of the mill killing...

Even the ones who did the killings had a different degree of hostility than Tex and Katie did...

and again- they weren't the ones with the worst excuses of life or upbringing.... so that is not an excuse either...

Linda/TJ were from no worse places than Tex and Katie- they both said no...

So It seems to me that it was something different

- in the wiring- is as good a way to put it as any...

about those two and what what inside them

leary7 said...

yeah, faulty wiring is a difficult contemplation, Saint. There were guys at My Lai who machine gunned babies and grandmothers, and others who tried to stop them. Was that a wiring issue?
Pat's father talked about what a great kid she was. And she certainly seems to be a highly intelligent and remorseful person now. But she cleary had that reservoir of anger and hatred that Charlie tapped into.
"the devil inside" as INXS sang.

katie8753 said...

Leary and Circumstance, you both make excellent points to ponder.

Was it the monster in the setting or the setting in the monster?

The difference between the way Tex killed and the way Bobby killed? Miles apart.

Were they different in upbringing? Not really. Both came from middle class families whose parents were still married. Both got bored and took off. Both got involved in drugs, Bobby with his music and Tex with his wigs.

But in the end, there's no comparison to the brutality Tex showed in killing multiple people versus Bobby's sudden (and in my opinion "only option") decision to kill one person.

If you really try to sit down and figure all this out, it can be mind boggling!

leary7 said...

and maybe it was just that Pat had a dormant fanatical gene. People with low self-esteem do seem vunerable to fanaticism.
If Pat had been born in Germany in the 1920's she might have been a fanatical Nazi. Or if she had been born on Wall Street she might have been a fanatical capitalist. Of if in Canada she might have been a fanatical hockey fan. Kidding a bit.
But point is because of her low self-esteem she probably was inclined to emotional extremes and fanaticism. Her own sister was a fanatical drug user till it killed her. I think Pat bought Charlie's rap hook line and sinker and was in effect the equivilant of an SS stormtrooper.
Kind of an interesting way to look at it...who amongst the girls would have been fanatical Nazis if born in Germany in the 20's? Sadie for sure. It seems bizzare to contemplate, but check out the story of the famous Mitford sisters of England. They were beautiful aristocrats and fell for Hitler. One, Unity, sat on a park bench and put a bullet in her head because Adolph didn't return her love.
Wow, it is easy to get off track when discussing faulty wiring.

katie8753 said...

And...would Bobby have killed a second time? I don't think he would...but who knows?

katie8753 said...

Leary good question.

Personally, I think all the "main" girls would have turned Nazi if they fell for Hitler like they fell for Charlie. LOL.

leary7 said...

yeah, the degree of depravity certainly complicates matters Katie. No doubt about it.
Lots of folks for instance were taken in by Bundy's so called "normal appearance" till confronted with the fact that he was a necrophiliac who returned to his decaying victims in the woods and brushed the maggots off and...well, you know.
That just can't be human. He had to have been an alien form of some kind. Just like the Florida skank who drove around with her daughter's body in the car.
Depravity seems a whole other level than faulty wiring.
I think that is what pisses off Charlie the most. He is seen as the face of evil and depravity, and he sort of accepts the evil part. But he pridefully objects to being portrayed as deprived. Strange life.

leary7 said...

now that is a great question Katie.
Would Bobby have killed again. Or was he a "situational" killer as oppossed to a programmed killer. I agree with you, he seems situational.

Leslie and Mary Brunner...definate Fraulins. The tricky one - Gypsy. Of course she would not have been given the chance as gypsies (and anyone who looked gypsy) were amongst the first on the genocide list. As were mentally impaired so then the whole Family would have been goners under Adolph. Makes it sorta strange that Chalies is such a fan of his.

leary7 said...

Adolph did have a way with the ladies. I read somewhere there were seven or eight woman who either committed suicide or tried to over him. Including, of course, his niece Geli.
Just another wierd lens to look through - Charlie and his idol Adolph as Casanovas.

katie8753 said...

>>>the degree of depravity certainly complicates matters Katie. No doubt about it.>>>

Leary, I agree completely!

There is no doubt that some people are much more depraved than others. Even in comparing killers to each other.

That's why I like to use the term "sociopath".

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I think that Charlie is definitely a sociopath, but the others aren't.

The reason I say that is because as far as I can see, Charlie is the only one who has NEVER shown any remorse. And one can argue all day long that Charlie never actually killed anyone, but he is the main reason for death, so in that regard, you would think he would at least one time say "well I wish it hadn't come to that. I wish I could have just gotten a recording contract and everybody would have lived happily ever after."

But all he does it joke about it or get mad about it.

Ted Bundy and the "skank from Florida" were/are definitely sociopaths.

katie8753 said...

>>>Just another wierd lens to look through - Charlie and his idol Adolph as Casanovas.>>>

Leary if you look at Hitler and Charlie, their lives have several similarities.

Schicklgruber's father was illegitimate and it was not determined who the father was. It was even rumored that he was Jewish.

When Hitler was a young man he had a driving desire to be an artist was rejected by the Academy of Fine Arts, and was told he wasn't good enough.

He learned while in prison and from others how to control people and promise them what they wanted or needed.

They both learned what face to put forward to men and women to provide exactly what they needed in order to achieve complete devotion from their "victims".

katie8753 said...

Although I have to say, I don't think Hitler became a "chick magnet" until he became "Der Fuhrer". HA HA!

leary7 said...

yup, 100% Katie. No question whatsoever Charlie is a sociopath. Actually, the only question is was he a sociopath from day one.

A quick question then I will stop typing I promise and go water the lawn.
But I mentioned that "moment" when Tex stopped in hid tracks and turned around in the desert. That is one of many "snapshot moments" I contemplate when thinking of the Manson saga.
There are the obvious "snapshot moments" like Tex saying 'I am the devil" and Pat chasing Abigal out on the lawn.
But I am curious what alternative or offbeat "snapshot moments" you guys might have in your heads with regards to the whole TLB scenerio and aftermath.
Charlie under the sink at Barker comes to mind.

leary7 said...

smart stuff, Katie, about the similaries of Charlie and Adolph's life.
not connected, but this cracks me up. one of my best friends here in Austin is a 68 year old straight laced Baptist woman named Duron. She gets her hair done at Adolph's Barber Shop. I don't know why but it just cracks me up. May be one of those 'you gotta be there' jokes though.

katie8753 said...

Yeah Leary I'll make one more comment for now. Gotta mow my yard. LOL.

When Tex stopped in his tracks in the desert, according to him, he felt a cold surety that if he found Charlie, Charlie would kill him. I really think that Tex's brain was like that commercial showing eggs frying:

"This is your brain. This is your brain on drugs."

Snapshot moments? Here are a few:

Squeaky cozying up to old man Spahn.

Sadie and Tex robbing the baby food jar.

Leslie hiding from her new suitor that let them hitch back to the ranch.

Sadie bragging about killing.

Linda knocking on the wrong apartment door.

Charlie trying to carry a tune.

Tex's "shit-eatin-grin" picture in the paper.

Okay that's enough for now.

More later. :)

katie8753 said...

You know a 68 year old woman who goes to Adolph's Barber Shop?

HA HA HA HA.

Oh well, at least it's not Floyd's Barber Shop. LOL.

Cease2 said...

katie said...
Yeah Leary I'll make one more comment for now. Gotta mow my yard. LOL.

There's your snapshot moment, Leary.

katie8753 said...

Hi Cease2!! HA HA HA!!!

leary7 said...

depends on what she is wearing, Cease.

leary7 said...

if it is a Red Sox or Longhorn t-shirt then yes, snap away.
But I get a feeling we aren't really talking about horticulture, are we?

katie8753 said...

I was in a John Deere riding lawn mower with enclosed cab, listening to Peace Train with the A/C on.

And it's not the "tractor story". HA HA.

katie8753 said...

Actually if I was wearing a t-shirt, it would be my beloved Houston Astros.

leary7 said...

my sincere condolences Katie.
But then after our Sept, Sox fans really shouldn't sass anyone.

katie8753 said...

Well, once a fan, always a fan.

I'm loyal to my team. What can I say? HA HA.

I'm also a Texas Longhorns fan, and a Texas Tech fan.

My Dad played for the Longhorns and he was a fan for life.

Which I inherited.

Ooohhh watching boxing now. Good stuff!

leary7 said...

played what sport, Katie?

katie8753 said...

Leary he played football.

My Dad went to a Jr. College in East Texas (won't say where) and he played football there, and was considering a football career.

Then the war broke out in 1941. He joined the Army Air Corps in January of 1942 (which most young men did), and served his country.

While in basic training, he met my mother who was an RN. After the war was over, he decided to become a physician. He enrolled at the UT at Austin in 1946. My parents moved there for him to complete his studies, after which he went to Galveston to complete his doctorate and do his internship and residency. While at the UT, he played football.

He wasn't "first string" or anything like that, but he was on the team. I have his paraphernalia that I've had dry-cleaned and it's hanging in my closet, for no one to touch.

katie8753 said...

Okay it's getting into the wee hours of the night (for us seniors, HA HA), and I'm going to bid adieu.

I'll catch y'all on the flip flop.

sbuch113 said...

I read that MMMM will go wide on 11-11. I'm going to go see it.

That is if Mississippi allows movies about cults to be shown.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Sbuch!

I plan to see it too! :)

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hello SBuch.
Good to see you.

I'm looking forward to the movie as well...
Thanks!