Saturday, April 30, 2011

Could It Be??
A friend asked me to view this courthouse footage.  She suspected the woman wearing the white shirt (in the video), was Kathleen Maddox.  She wanted my opinion.  My honest answer was: "it's possible... but, I'm not sure".
Kathleen had Charles at 16, which would put her at 50ish, during the trial.
This woman appears to be that age.  I've only seen two old, black and white, photos of Kathleen.  She looked about 18, in those photos.  Based on that only, it's hard to predict, what she would have looked like 32 years later.  Given the length of the trial, and the notoriety, it does seem likely Kathleen would have made it to the courthouse, at some point.  In the footage, the woman appears immediately (upper right corner), and is on-camera, through the first ten seconds.  What do you think?
 

54 comments:

MrPoirot said...

Susan Bartell is a babe amomgst babes when she bades out. When did she become a Family member? Before or after TLB?

Lynyrd, Lynyrd, Lynyrd.......why didn't you list her as a member of your babe poll? Look aat her in Manson 73 Green eyes!

St. Circumstance said...

Sue came after TLB.... she is in the Hendrickson video naked in a scene- if you want to " See more of her" lol

Very intriguing Video- I think she does resemble him- but not once have I ever heard anywhere that she is at the trial... still- there is a semblance..

Kimchi said...

Haha -

Looking at their dirty feet, I met a lady that worked at the Hall of Justice during the trial..

She said the girls used to use their bathrooms to "bathe" and clean up...she said they smelled bad..LOL

She said they used to sneak smokes and drugs in by putting them in the trash in the bathroom and when the trustees emptied the trash, they'd grab it and sneak it in to Charlie...but the deputies wised up fast and everyone, including employees were searched before going in the building...

St. Circumstance said...

There are actually pictures out there that show Sandy walking into the court room in the early phases- with her knife on her belt...

think that would happen today?

Kimchi said...

Backporch posted a video a while back and states it is a picture of Manson's mother...you can see it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzu0Er-7HL4

It kind of looks like that lady in the video.

But then again, who really knows except Charlie?

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Poirot.

Poirot said>>>>
"Lynyrd, Lynyrd, Lynyrd.......why didn't you list her as a member of your babe poll? Look aat her in Manson 73 Green eyes"!

Point taken.
I tried to brainstorm the girls names quick one day, and unfortunately, once you post a poll... you can't make edits.
Good Ol' "Country Sue"... sorry dude.
It's hard to think of everything, all the time. LOL J/K.
Little Patty was kinda cute too.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Saint said>>>>
"There are actually pictures out there that show Sandy walking into the court room in the early phases- with her knife on her belt"<<<<

Yeah.
I read somewhere, that as long as your weapon was "plainly visible", or "in plain view" sorta speak, and not "concealed", it was legal.
The 60's. What a time. LOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Circumstance said>>>
"Sue came after TLB.... she is in the Hendrickson video naked in a scene- if you want to " See more of her" lol"<<<<

Speaking of Hendrickson films.
Has anyone seen "Inside the Manson Gang"... the sequel?
Bottom line:
Is it really worth 50 bucks, or whatever the ungodly price, with shipping?

St. Circumstance said...

Its more of the same- its the outtakes that probably got cut from the first one....

Kimchi said...

St. C -

Doesn't it have a bunch of footage of the LA Riots in it too? I've been hearing that case has been brought up again recently...or in the past several months...

bobby said...

St.C. , I thought there were reports that Charlies mother was at the trail ? To me it does look like the woman in the video could be Charlies mother.

Kimchi said...

Bobby -

What's the "trail"?

katie8753 said...

Who's that guy with the beard and nasty feet? TJ?

Kimchi I've read that the "family" was extremely filthy. I think they only bathed when someone was there filming. Now is that sexy or WHAT!!! Pheeewwwww.

That woman does resemble Charlie's mother. I think Ed Sanders says that she was at the trial. I've read it somwhere.

Lynn....I'm so glad you could get back on and make comments.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Kimchi...

I believe Bob meant "trial"... not "trail".

bobby said...

Kimchi, I did mean trial not trail, my typing / spelling is terrible. I know it must be annoying to read my comments, i know i am amazed when i re read them. without spell check i'm lost. I do apologise to everyone.

katie8753 said...

Bobby, no sweat...you're cool!!

I was just wondering how much Charlie's mother knew about Charlie's activities in 1968 & 1969. Did she know that he was gathering a group of young people for orgies & whatnot.

I wonder how she found out about him being arrested for TLB. Did she read it in the paper? What a shock...or maybe not.

"What's that boy gotten himself into now?" HA HA.

Kimchi said...

Bobby -

OK, trial...sorry, I thought maybe you were in England or something and meant "the end"...

Did you guys look at that footage I posted (link) from Backporch? They claim that was his mom, that lady in the footage sure resembles the lady in the cut that's posted here...

Kimchi said...

Katie -

Yeah, the lady I talked to that worked at Hall of Justice was very discriptive...more than I want to post here...but looking at this video just verifies what she said...I'm just glad the inet doesn't add "scents" to the videos..

Kimchi said...

See, my spelling sucks too, to or two..or there, their or they're..

How I love spellcheck..

katie8753 said...

Kimchi, I did look at that footage, and the woman does look like Charlie's mother, although younger looking.

I read in the paper back in 1970 some descriptions of the family that were nauseating.

When they all got naked to have an orgy or whatever, they piled their clothes on the floor, and then later everyone put on some clothes that someone else had been wearing, and it hadn't been washed in months.

I can't believe they could get within 15 feet of each other. YUCK!!

Kimchi said...

Yeah, they had a "community clothing pool" or something, where you went to get something to wear, washed or not...everything was game...

Read the police report sometime from 8/16/69 of moldy food in the fridge or "feces" on a plate in the fridge...

Not sure if that was written by social workers to "justify" their report to take the kids...but I wouldn't doubt that conditions were really like that...

Sorry, I got a little off topic here..

katie8753 said...

>>>Read the police report sometime from 8/16/69 of moldy food in the fridge or "feces" on a plate in the fridge...>>>

Feces on a plate???? I didn't see that. That's disgusting!!

Moldy food? Well when you get it out of a dumpster because it's expired, it can't last much longer. HA HA.

I hope they weren't feeding that to George. YUCK!

Kimchi said...

Yeah, seems they ate well...LOL..ask Babs..

Poor thing, everytime I read something from her, seems she was "hungry"...

Even in the court transcripts she talks about donuts she bought with her only 10.00,..the hamburger in Hawaii...no food at Barker..on and on..

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Wow... "community clothing pool"? ... that's pretty gross.

I can't even begin to imagine throwing-on some other dudes, already-worn, sweaty-ass, clothes.
That's downright nasty.

Don't "sweat it" (pun intended) Kimchi. LOL
You're still on-topic.
...and even if you weren't, it wouldn't bother me in the least.
You can discuss, basically anything you want here.

Besides... sometimes off-topic, can be the most fun discussions, of all! LOL

katie8753 said...

Well let's recap here:

The girls had to go dumpster diving to get the family dinner.

The girls were the last ones to eat, even after the dogs, so the only thing left might have been the "feces on a plate" (which equates to "eat shit??).

The girls had to have sex at the drop of a hat with whomever Charlie deemed, no matter how stinky he/she/it was.

The girls were the ones who were in charge of cooking and taking care of everything menial.

Wow! That sounds like a fun place to live. NOT.

No wonder Babs was skinny back then. She must have made up for lost time. HA HA.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Seems Babs, found plenty of food, in later years. LOL

Sorry... I couldn't resist.
It was right there. : )

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

You said it Katie.

Sigh...
They just don't make hot, young, girls the way they used to. LOLOL

Now, they gotta eat, rest, bathe, have phones and watches... and all kinds of extra stuff. LOL
What's thw world coming too??!!!! hahaha

katie8753 said...

There used to be a You Tube Video (can't find it now, guess it's been taken off) of Kathleen Maddox, denying the allegations that Charlie made that she "sold him for a beer".

In fact, she denied a lot of allegations that he made concerning her lack of care for him.

That was really interesting. Does anyone remember that??? I looked but couldn't locate it.

Seeing how he contacted her after he got out of prison in 1967, you would think that maybe he made this stuff up.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

All these extra amenities...

Kimchi said...

Oohh LS, that was a low blow...

Maybe that's why she had a thing for food later in life...

Honestly though, she talked about food alot!

Yeah, the community clothing thing...wonder if they exchanged underwear too? Nah, doubt they wore underwear...LOL

katie8753 said...

>>>Lynyrd said: You said it Katie.

Sigh...
They just don't make hot, young, girls the way they used to. LOLOL

Now, they gotta eat, rest, bathe, have phones and watches... and all kinds of extra stuff. LOL
What's thw world coming too??!!!! hahaha>>>

I know Lynyrd!!! You just can't find one of them gals now-a-days!! HA HA.

I like Charlie's comment on the thread with George when George asked Charlie how he kept those girls in line.

"You just kick in the you-know-what".

HA HA.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

As I said in a previous thread:

After the history we've all heard...
It was interesting to me, that Sanders mentions 2-3 times in the first chapters... that Manson went looking for his mother several times, with the van & bus... he describes it as almost obsessively.

Shorty thereafter, Sanders states, that Kathleen actually offered her house, as bail for Manson, when he was incarcerated, at one point.

This doesn't seem congruent, with the hellish stories, we're usually told, regarding his relationship, with Mom.

Kimchi said...

Katie

>>There used to be a You Tube Video (can't find it now, guess it's been taken off) of Kathleen Maddox, denying the allegations that Charlie made that she "sold him for a beer".<<

Never saw that, wish I did...

I know the family traveled to Washington trying to find her..in 68 or 69...maybe both..

Kimchi said...

In later years Charlie defended his mom, saying she wasn't a prostitute and all...that those stories about the beer and all weren't true..

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Kimchi said>>>>
"Oohh LS, that was a low blow"...

Sorry Kimchi, bad joke.
I wish her the best actually.
There's a clip inside the courtroom, where she's actually very cute... huge glasses and all! LOL
She just kinda giggles a lot, like everyhting's a big joke... or, maybe, she's just really nervous.
I gotta find that clip sometime.

Either way you slice it, you gotta give a nod, to those who don't actually murder.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

According to Sanders, they made several trips, looking for Kathleen. (for, whatever that's worth).

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Does anyone know, if it's documented anywhere, that Kathleen visited the trial/courtroom?
Video, book, newspaper clipping?
Anything?

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I kinda wish Lynn, would stop-in.
She's a lotta fun, and has a real skill, for telling good stories.
She'd be great around a campfire! : )

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I hope she's not still struggling with that computer problem.

I get the "Error" message CONSTANTLY, at work.
It sucks.

For some reason, at home... it's very rare.
Who knows?

Kimchi said...

LS:

>>Does anyone know, if it's documented anywhere, that Kathleen visited the trial/courtroom?
Video, book, newspaper clipping?
Anything?<<

I've seen two - the one with the same picture that BPT posted and it quoted her as saying "he didn't have to sell newspapers when he was 7 or 8, he was pampered, he loved to sing and was very musical"

And the other was Sandy saying that wasn't his mother, his mother was only 5'2 and she was very petite"

Both were newspaper clippings during the trial..

katie8753 said...

Kimchi: I'll try to find that video about Kathleen. Very interesting. I saw it about 7 years ago. I think it was Bret's. I'll keep looking.

Lynyrd: I'll see what I can find on Kathleen going to the trials. I know that I read it somewhere that she attended the trial proceedings. Don't think it was every day, but I think she did attend. I don't really think any of the press knew who she was, so no hoopla there.

Lynn, I hope you're not having trouble. Miss you!!!

katie8753 said...

This is off subject, but does anyone know if Doris Tate attended any of Charlie's parole hearings?

I think that her daughters were afraid of him, but I'm sure she wasn't. She talked about him talking "gobbly-gook" and she was not afraid of him.

For some reason I was curious about that.

katie8753 said...

Oye, donde esta Maria? Chica buena.

Mary....miss you too!!!

Kimchi said...

Katie:

>This is off subject, but does anyone know if Doris Tate attended any of Charlie's parole hearings<

I don't think so..I've never seen her at any that were televised..but he didn't show up at quite a few of them.

I'll check that for you to be sure..

No habla espanol... : )

Mary said...

Hi guys...I have been reading your comments tonight and was hoping to find something on the mother...but I couldn't either.

katie8753 said...

((((((((((((((MARY))))))))))))!!!

Is that what Lynyrd does? HA HA.

Good to see you!!! Thanks for looking. Let us know if you find something!!!

Kimchi: No habla espanol... : )

"Oye, donde esta Maria? Chica buena." means "Hey there, where is Mary. Good friend."

Kimchi thanks for looking. I really don't think that Doris went to his. Not sure why. I'm sure she was ready and willing. Maybe because at first he didn't show. But I wouldn't think that would stop Doris. HA HA.

She was unsinkable.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

((((((((((MARY))))))))))

katie8753 said...

>>>Lynyrd said: After the history we've all heard...
It was interesting to me, that Sanders mentions 2-3 times in the first chapters... that Manson went looking for his mother several times, with the van & bus... he describes it as almost obsessively.

Shorty thereafter, Sanders states, that Kathleen actually offered her house, as bail for Manson, when he was incarcerated, at one point.

This doesn't seem congruent, with the hellish stories, we're usually told, regarding his relationship, with Mom>>>

Lynyrd I think you're right. I don't think his upbringing was as bad as he painted.

He wouldn't have gone looking for mom if she was that bad. Also, she wouldn't have put her house up as collateral for bail if she was such a bad mother.

Mary said...

Just another reason to not believe a darn word that man says.

LadyRam said...

I believe the woman in the picture IS Kathleen Maddox. I too have seen that video that Katie mentions. Someone is interviewing her(has a microphone up to her)and she is denying that she ever sold boy Charlie for that brewski! I will look around, too, and see if I can locate. To tell you the truth...I think that video of her was taken AT THE COURTHOUSE..in the hallway! I could be losing it..but that's what I'm thinkin. Does that sound right, Katie??

Also, I own both the Hendrickson films and the answer is YES, Inside the Manson Gang is worth it. Buy them both as a package deal from RH himself at Amazon and he will send you a copy of an original poster which shows how the film was BANNED in California when it first came out. He even personalizes your numbered copies with your handwritten name. The thing is, soon, they will be out of print, like Nellie's book and the Richard Bate "Charles Manson" VHS, and then you'll have to pay the "beaucoup bucks" to Aes-Nihil who has planned ahead and has ALL that stuff in excess in his private collection!! (JK Jon...it was a truly smart move!)

By the way, I would like to take part in the book club discussions. Where do I go for that?

Take care all............

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Lady Ram!!

Welcome Back!!

I'll tell you what...
If you can find that footage, I will be very grateful!
You'll be on my "premium member list"! hahaha

The book club:
We're currently reading, "The Family" by Ed Sanders.
We're discussing it in 20-25 page chunks.
The next section we'll be discussing is pages 43-66.
Worthy of Note:
I'm reading from the latest edition (The one with the red cover).
The older edition(s), are considerably different... missing chapters, and different pages etc.

LadyRam said...

I'm going to give it my best shot...promise :)

Lynn said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Lynn!!!!
Great to see you!!!

Lynn said>>>>>
"Smell....Can just imagine. Maybe they should have scratch and sniff videos...maybe it would make things a little more real for those that romanticize time with the family".....<<<<

Nothing like a bit of stench to put things in perspective, huh?! LOLOL

Lynn said>>>>
"Knowing how hot So. Cal can get in the summer, can't imagine what those dumpsters smelled like in the summer"<<<<

Jeez... that never crossed my mind.
Those dumpsters must have been rank, on 95 degree days!
...and we're back to the stench. LOLOL

Lynn said>>>>
"Sorry I have not been around- family get together yesterday so lots of cleaning and we are tending to a sick cat....my side job is as a vet tech....not fun but ncessary".

I hope your cat feels better soon!