Thursday, August 13, 2015


As we all know, it's very hard to find anything at all about Abigail Folger. Apparently, Peter Folger Sr. took strides in making most things about her life "disappear".  

Purely by accident, while researching something else, I came upon an author that was a “friend of a friend” of Gibby’s.  The "mutual friend" was named Brinley MacLaren, and the author's name is Dayton Lummis (pictured below)
Dayton Lummis

Below are some snippets from Lummis' many books or “Autobiography’s".
(I love his writing by the way!)

My thought after reading these snippets: 
How many people were invited to Cielo Drive that night and didn’t come? 
The list is growing and growing and growing….




Yep, Brinley passed away in 2002 in Arizona:


LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thank You Kimchi.
You always find good stuff.

You're hands-down the most underappreciated researcher in TLB land.
We're very fortunate to have you.

katie8753 said...

Surely he meant Gibby called him on August 8, 1969...not August 9, 1969???

revatron said...

It's hard to get the dates straight when you're making things up!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Revatron,

I don't think Lummis proclaims to be a TLB expert, or even a novice.

maudes harold said...

Great work Kimchi, thanks!

Sadly, this guy Brinely MacLaren sounded like a mess. I'm not sure if he is any more credible than the "Robert" from the last post. lol

If he was invited, I've no doubt he made a mistake on the date probably due to some form of inebriation.

I think I read somewhere else that Brinely was gonna go with Elvis to Cielo but couldn't cuz Elvis had already left the building.....

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

It has always struck me as kinda weird (or better yet, "lame") how the Folger family attempted to make Gibby disappear from public record.
(And lets face it, they were quite successful at it).

Were they ashamed of her association with Frykowski and company?

Were they afraid of what "information" might surface during (or after) the trial?

Was Mister Folger more worried about his precious coffee business, than celebrating his own daughter's life?

I could understand "fear and shame" if Gibby had become a "perpetrator"... but heck, she was a victim!
She did nothing wrong!

It seems very ironic to me, how Tex's family remained supportive of him... and yet, the Folgers bailed.

One might say, that the Folgers were trying to protect and shield Gibby's memory... but lets face it... it's much more likely, that they were just trying to protect themselves (and their business).

Mister Folger was worried and ashamed, and his actions were cowardly, disloyal and selfish.

Evidently, boatloads of money does not make a man "decent".

Mister Folger reminds me of Joseph P. Kennedy.

Joseph Kennedy's oldest daughter "Rosemary" had minor intellectual disabilities.
For years, the family attempted to keep her minor disabilities a "secret".

When "Rosemary" was in her early 20's, Joseph (the genius) decided that Rosemary's behavior was an embarrassment to the prestigious "Kennedy name", and arranged a lobotomy.

As a result, Rosemary was left a "vegetable" for the rest of her life.
And of course, she was hidden-away forever after that.

It was a fucking shame.

If he had simply accepted his daughter as she was, Rosemary would have been fine.

Joseph's decision was an act of selfishness.

Joseph didn't even inform his wife "Rose" about the lobotomy procedure, until AFTER it was performed!


Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr. was especially worried that his daughter's behavior would bring shame and embarrassment upon the family and possibly damage his political career.

In November 1941, when Rosemary Kennedy was 23, doctors told Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr. that a new neurosurgical procedure, lobotomy, would help calm her mood swings and stop her occasional violent outbursts. He decided that his daughter should have the lobotomy performed; however, he did not inform his wife Rose of this until after the procedure was completed."


Money doesn't make people loyal, decent or moral.
In fact, many times it has the opposite effect.

Truth be told, I have more respect for Tex's parents than I do for Mister Folger, or Mister Kennedy.

You stick by your own people in good or bad, "no matter what".

You celebrate your daughter's life, "no matter what".

As a priest once said to me:
"It's a sick bird, that turns against his own nest".

Amen to that sentiment !!

Donna said...

So another person invited to the Tate house that night. Hmmm...

maudes harold said...

Lynyrd, I couldn't have said it any better. I have found all sorts of deviant twistedness among the very rich and powerful I have read about over the years. I've no doubt Mr. Folger's actions were more about removing himself, his family, business and daughter from being targets of any unseemliness. I get that, but Abigail seemed to be thrown out with the bath water in the process.


Didn't they screw up Rosemary's lobotomy too?

grimtraveller said...

On the other hand, that we know so little about Abigail has kept her memory a little more positively preserved. Maybe Peter Folger was just doing it for himself, but when you think of some of the things that subsequently have come to light about Voytek, Jay, Steve Parent and both the LaBiancas and the speculation that has accompanied them, maybe he had a point.

grimtraveller said...

revatron said...

"It's hard to get the dates straight when you're making things up!"

Where I am it's August 14th !

katie8753 said...

But Grim, you do know that in Los Angeles, CA, it's still August 13th??

katie8753 said...

Grim said: On the other hand, that we know so little about Abigail has kept her memory a little more positively preserved. Maybe Peter Folger was just doing it for himself, but when you think of some of the things that subsequently have come to light about Voytek, Jay, Steve Parent and both the LaBiancas and the speculation that has accompanied them, maybe he had a point.

I agree Grim. Right after the killings, the media said the most awful things about Sharon, Gibby, Jay & Voytek. They were devil worshippers, they were in covens, they were drug dealers, they were making masochistic & sadistic movies. I'm sure all the families were hurt by that kind of media frenzy.

And people are even still saying today on blogs and other media outlets that Gibby was doing something that caused her death, which isn't true. I can certainly understand why the Folger family tried to keep her out of the damaging limelight.

You know, you don't see a whole lot of pics of Voytek or Jay either.

There are 1000's of pics of Sharon, so that never stops.

katie8753 said...

BTW, you don't see a lot of pics the other victims either...Shorty, Gary or the LaBiancas. We have a limited supply. It's not very often anyone comes up with a pic we haven't seen.

Why? Because the family members who have those pics we haven't seen aren't sharing them on the internet. And I'm sure it's because people love to post those pics and speculate about what they were doing to deserve to die.

Which, to me, is just sad. They were killed once, why kill them again?

katie8753 said...

Oh and I forgot. The media ignored Steven Parent, but the blog world didn't. Now they say that he wasn't selling a clock radio, just looking for sex.

But it's funny that he HAD a clock radio in his car when he was killed. So if he had a clock radio in his car, it's kind of hard to explain how he WASN'T selling a clock radio. But people still try. You know why?

Because we have to invent things about the victims. That's what people have been doing for the last 40 something years. We can't just let them die peaceful deaths, we have to make them into queers, thieves, drug dealers, and worse.

Why can't we just take it at face value, and let them be what they were when they were so viciously killed by a hippy cult leader who was mad because things weren't going the way he wanted.

sunset77 said...

maudes harold said..Didn't they screw up Rosemary's lobotomy too?

ALL lobotomies were "screwed up". The quack medicine procedure known as a "lobotomy" was invented by a clown that called himself a doctor by the name of Walter Freeman. He took an ice pick out of his kitchen drawer, and used a small hammer to drive it in the side of a patients eyeball into their brain, and swish it back and forth like a windshield wiper. He drove around in a beat up station wagon called "the lobotomobile" and practiced his craft at a number of hospitals. If you are interested in Freeman and lobotomies, THE LOBOTOMIST is posted on YouTube, it's over an hour long.

One of the hospitals Freeman worked at was the former Trans Allegheny Lunatic Asylum (later known as The Weston State Hospital) in Weston WVA. It was closed in 1990's, I think it's still the second largest hand cut stone building in the world after the Kremlin. It's a creepy place, I've toured it twice. Our guide there said she started there as a nurse in 1967. I asked her if she knew Walter Freeman, she said "Doctor Freeman!!" like I'd said something wrong. Behind the main building is the "medical building", it had/has bars on the windows. Our guide said that's where the lobotomies were performed, "on the first floor". Some of the ice picks Freeman used are still at the former Weston State Hospital.

Marliese said...

Just speaking my own feelings, not disputing anyone's opinion ... etc etc

I don't know Peter Folger, and thank God, have never known the unspeakable heartache and endless grief of a son or daughter, or any family member, being viciously murdered, but I admire what little I do know of him...mostly coming from internet talk that he was driven to protect his daughter's legacy...even threatening legal action against unsubstantiated trash being said or written about his daughter etc etc...,and God knows there is an endless supply of that, long after his own death, with the Internet.

As a parent, I can't imagine being anything but proud of a daughter as intelligent, talented, educated, giving and generous with volunteer work as Abigail was...she may have been a wealthy young woman, but she wasn't a spoiled brat., and I'd like to believe he was proud of her....

I can't imagine the horror of seeing, or knowing the existence...of child's blood soaked, stabbed up twisted body in notorious crime scene photos, or knowing her naked body morgue photos with her beautiful face slashed were published in print and on the internet forever and ever...I just can't imagine, and the endless heartache of knowing my child suffered unspeakable pain in her final minutes, desperately trying to escape a wild monster with an upraised knife. I choose not to believe he was an uncaring, cold hearted monster himself.

So much to say, but no time...

MrPoirot said...

I usually don't drink Folgers coffee. I drink Manson House Coffee. Good till the last one drops.

katie8753 said...

Mr. P, that was so funny I forgot to laugh.

Marliese, that's so true. I don't think it was just the Folgers who kept things under wraps. In fact, the only family that I know of that has come forth publicly is the Tate family. And Doris did that in a positive way, to try and bring attention to the victims' rights and also to draw attention to what the killers were still getting away with in prison, even after conviction. Which was unthinkable.

Why single out the Folger family? I've never seen the Sebring family, the Frykowski family, the Parent family, the Hinman family or the Shea family beating the bandwagon about their dearly departed deceased. The only thing I've seen on the LaBianca family was Alice LaBianca saying sweet things about Leno and that nasty daughter trying to get Tex off, which is a whole nother agenda I'm sure. Quite another story....

Why single out the Folger family?

I'm not rich by any means, but if my child had been senselessly murdered, I'd put a stop to any vicious talk about him or her by cutting everyone off from any more info. Because, as we all know, the press can be vicious. They can make or break anyone.

The press was saying horrible things about all the victims, but most of you are probably too young to remember that. It was a daily event, to the point where you either believed it all or you just stopped reading it because it was so stupid.

Venus said...

Great posts, Marliese and Katie!

Here's another thought....your loved one is one of the victims of this crime. Clearly, you KNOW this person. He or she is your child, brother, sister, niece, nephew, cousin, friend, neighbor. You know what this person likes: their favorite foods, TV shows and so on. You know more about them than the rumor spreaders. You know how caring and loving they are. Then, THIS happens. Suddenly your loved one is being dragged thru the mud. Rumors are being spread all over the place. You try very hard to stop them. You can't. The rumors have taken on a life of their own. You keep trying. It doesn't matter. People believe the rumors. They get embellished. More rumors are started. No matter what you say or do, no matter how hard you try, people believe the stories that are out there. Finally, you (the parent, the sibling, niece, nephew, cousin, friend, neighbor) decide that you're fighting a losing battle. You just decide that you will cherish the memories of the REAL person that you knew and still love. You decide to let people believe the rumors. Why? Because you know the truth and that's what matters to you.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Venus!

I wonder why the media has given Charlie attention all these years. I think he craves it, and without it he probably would have wilted into nothing before now.

But I watched this show, and even though there was really nothing new, it's interesting how every time they do a show on Manson, they make sure the public knows that he's evil and conniving. Which is a good thing!

katie8753 said...

I think maybe the others convicted in these horrible crimes crave attention too. I'm not sure.

It's just like Jodi Arias. She needed attention and she got plenty of it during her trial, but now that she's a convicted murderer and sentenced to life in prison without parole, she won't get any anymore. She will probably just die in prison pretty quickly.

I think Manson is the same way. He craves attention. And he still gets it. Even bad attention is better than nothing. But he won't live forever. Even if his body lives to be 110, his mind most likely won't.

Oh well, thanks Venus for the heads up!

MrPoirot said...

Jodi and Charlie were about the same age when they got long prison sentences. It sounds great at the moment of the crime to sentence the killers to life but 50 years later they are still sitting in prison on your dime yet they are no longer a threat to society. 50-70 year prison sentences really aren't logical. They are a burden to the system. We have a lot of prisoners like this today that prisons struggle to take care of. We need a cutoff limit to time you can serve.

MrPoirot said...

The longest any NAZI leader was sentenced at Nuremburg Trials was 20 years. Most big NAZIs were all released by 1970 except Rudolf Hess who was still in Spandau prison in Germany up until he was 94 years old. He was the last inmate serving in that prison. It was a big prison being held open for one inmate who was still being guarded by 4 Allied and Axis nations who rotated shifts. There were no other inmates at Spandau. How did the Europeans solve this problem?

They got a guard to strangle Hess in his cell and then they tore down the prison to build a shopping mall.

katie8753 said...

Well if they can get a guard to strangle Jodi, that's fine with me.

grimtraveller said...

grimtraveller said...

revatron said...

"It's hard to get the dates straight when you're making things up!"

Where I am it's August 14th !

August 13, 2015 at 7:28 PM Delete
Blogger katie8753 said...

But Grim, you do know that in Los Angeles, CA, it's still August 13th??"

Yeah, I was just trying to make a joke on revatron's post.
I often find it amusing that on the news in England we get reports and footage of Australia's New year celebrations six to seven hours before the new year begins ! Ah, time zones....

maudes harold said...

"I have found all sorts of deviant twistedness among the very rich and powerful I have read about over the years"

Same here. But I long ago reached the conclusion that deviance wasn't the preserve of the rich and powerful or of any particular culture, race, class or any particular grouping. The poor and oppressed can display just as much shocking twistedness. As human beings I think we're all warped in one way or another. Fortunately, the right set of circumstances don't always come together to bring what may be inside of us to the foreground.
I remember about 10 years ago when one of Sadaam Hussein's sons was killed, thinking how, it could have been me in his position. If my Dad had been a brutal dictator that was protected by ruthless aides and a ruthless army, I may well have tested out what I could do, especially if I wasn't in danger of facing the consequences.
On an ironic & lighthearted note, my Dad once told me {he was an engineer} that he was known to the guys he used to oversee as 'the slavedriver.'
I believed him !