Tuesday, January 10, 2012

I received a friendly email recently, which included several questions. 
As I was responding to those questions... I decided to upload the conversation (and my resulting answers/research) for everyone.  I invested considerable time on my response(s)... and figured others might enjoy the subject matter, as well.

Here goes: (Lynyrd Responds In Yellow)

"I just found your Manson blog and spent a ton of time going through it.  I also like your musical references.  I’m a HUGE Gary Rossington fan, love his playing.  I’ve also always been interested in musicians who met Manson.  Neil Young and Dennis Wilson, obviously.  I understand that the family did a full recording session (not Lie) at Brian Wilson’s home studio, produced by Carl and Brian, so I’m morally sure that they were in a room with the family for at least a day.  There may be tapes from that session, but no one will admit it.  The name of the engineer is even known, so I’m pretty sure it happened.  Dennis Wilson slept with some of the girls, but I am convinced that Neil Young did too.  But here’s the obscure stuff: Alex Chilton met Manson, according to an interview I read.  And I learned the other day that Sly Stone met him too, but wasn’t very impressed.  I’m sure there’s other rock stars who met him, but would never admit it in a million years".

One could easily dedicate an entire blog, to researching the history of Manson’s music, and recording sessions.  In fact, there ARE such “Manson Music” sites, dedicated solely to researching and presenting Manson‘s music. Some are quite good, actually.  The questions of where Manson recorded, when he recorded, and who recorded him… (and which albums those respective recordings ultimately landed on)… are subjects, I’ve never personally delved head-over-heels into.  I’m not an expert on Manson’s music specifically.  With that understood… here’s a few "fast facts"… and as always, my opinion.

In addition to the “Beach Boys” recording(s):
Credit card data indicates Manson called Universal Studios in North Hollywood on November 10, 1967.  Slightly thereafter.… Manson attended Universal Studios in North Hollywood and recorded one (3-hour session) with an audio engineer named Gary Stromberg.  Stromberg was a mutual friend of Manson’s prison buddy Phil Kaufman. (information found on pages 20-21, of Sander’s book).

In the summer/fall of 1968... Manson recorded in Brian Wilson’s home studio, in Bellagio.  The engineer was Stephen Despar.  Further recordings were cancelled, after Manson pulled a knife in the studio.


"I’m sure there’s other rock stars who met him, but would never admit it in a million years".

I (personally) believe that Manson likely met several prominent musicians.  He was circulating at the right place, at the right time, with the right people.  Terry Melcher, Dennis Wilson, Gregg Jakobson, Neil Young... these are big names.  You can throw-in Gary Stromberg at Universal Studios, and Phil Kaufman.  Wilson and Melcher discussed Manson with John Phillips (Mamas and Papas) at least once.  Phillips “passed” on meeting Manson… but at a minimum, he had heard Manson’s name.  It’s also likely, that Manson interfaced with The Grateful Dead, at some point.  The Grateful Dead were everywhere.  They were the "house band" at many 60's California parties, both indoors, and out... with hundreds in attendance... not the least of which, were Ken Kesey and his "Merry Pranksters"... Hell's Angels... you name it.

Look at it this way: 
Manson LIVED with one of the Beach Boys, and recorded in their studio.  Melcher (son of Doris Day) had been one of the music directors for the 1967 Monterey Pop Festival.  Neil Young has been inducted into the Rock-N-Roll Hall of Fame TWICE… once with Buffalo Springfield, and once for his solo work.  The idea that Manson may have interfaced with other musicians, is really not far-fetched. I'm not saying he DID... I'm saying... given the time and place... it's likely.  That's just my humble opinion.  Even Wavy's Hog Farm and the Spiral Staircase, must have hosted musicians from time to time.


"I’m a defense atty in Washington state. I know Kasabian was in the pierce co. superior court, but I never crossed paths with her. The reason I’m emailing is that I’m curious if anything is known about the families travels in Washington and Oregon. Wiki says that the family came up to Washington, but I’ve never read anything about where they specifically went and what they did before going back to California".

Spring-summer 1967 - “Manson made definite attempts to locate his mother, Kathleen.  He secured permission from his federal parole officer to travel out of state several times.  He once went to Washington, in search of her”.
(Sanders, page 13)

Kathleen died in Spokane, Washington, July 31, 1973.  She is buried there.  Her full name was Ada Kathleen, but she is buried under the name Kathleen as she went by her middle name.  This information, lends credence to Sanders’ assertion.
All that information can be viewed here, on my blog:
She had married a man named “Bower”. Gale S. Bower, to be exact. He served in the Navy during WWII, and operated a tire company.


"Have you seen the footage of LS in Asbury Park from 77.  It's amazing because you can specifically see who plays what.  They seem to pass the solos down the line, starting with Gaines, then to Collins, then Rossington, then back to Gaines.  I could never figure who played what until I saw it.  Apparently there’s a ton of Pro Shot stuff that unreleased, including a show from CA from the Street Survivors tour, that someone is sitting on.  A bunch leaked onto youtoob, then disappeared.  Great stuff".

Re: Lynyrd Skynyrd -
I bought a huge pile of old VHS video footage many years ago, on Ebay… before YouTube became popular.  (Actually, I’m not sure YouTube even existed).  The guy sold me everything, in one package deal.  I have it all… some color, some black and white.  I paid a pretty penny for that stuff, way back then.  Now, most of it is on YouTube for free.  Most of it… but not all.  Unfortunately, all my stuff is very poorly labeled… so, it’s impossible to make heads or tails of it. LOL


katie8753 said...

It's too bad they had all that opportunity and just screwed it all up.

Anonymous said...

i was reading an interview with the late great alex chilton last week where he talked about meeting manson while chilton was staying at dennis wilsons house.
he did'nt make much of an impression on chilton,alex just remembered manson 'being around'

katie8753 said...

Did EVERYBODY stay at Dennis Wilson's house?? I hope he had plenty of bedrooms.

He must have been busier than Mama Cass! LOL.

v717 said...

Allegedly David Crosby promised Manson a record contract at a party at Mama Cass place.

katie8753 said...

>>>V717 said: Allegedly David Crosby promised Manson a record contract at a party at Mama Cass place.>>>


I wouldn't doubt it. I think that Julie Andrews also met up with Manson at Mama Cass's house and promised him a recording contract if he would help her write "The Lonely Goatherd, Climb Every Mountain and How Do You Solve a Problem Like Maria."

Not to mention, "I am Sixteen Going On Seventeen, Goodbye and Edelweiss."


katie8753 said...

To hear it said, Mama Cass's house had a revolving door.

There was just an "in and out" at her house. How did she have time to record music?

Just a massive clump of human waste on her carpet.

Man, if it was me and I had to stumble over all that puke to get my morning cup of coffee, I'd say ALL Y'ALL GET OUT!!!!

But...that's just me.

v717 said...

Yes, they had quite some partys back in those days. Everybodey met up at Mama cass house. Sharon, Woytek Frykowsky, Jay Sebring and all the others.
They were all in the same circle of acquaintances. Belive it or not.

katie8753 said...

>>>Frank said: Perhaps some people are spooked out by postings at Le Rubrique/Le Paradoxes and don't want their rl name, address and photo splashed over cyberspace?>>

Well I for one am getting really tired of this horseshit.

If these people have a problem with Evil Liz, then keep it over there. Don't bring it to this blog.

Whatever she's done, has NOTHING to do with us.

If you are interfering with this blog, it's pissing me off!!

The bloggers over here have done nothing to you. Piss off!!!

katie8753 said...

>>>V717 said: Yes, they had quite some partys back in those days. Everybodey met up at Mama cass house. Sharon, Woytek Frykowsky, Jay Sebring and all the others.
They were all in the same circle of acquaintances. Belive it or not.>>>

Yeah, right. HA HA HA.

V717, you're too funny. LOL.

In retrospect, Mama Cass's house must have been a 25,000 square foot house to include all the partiers.

Complete with a valet service to park their cars.


MrPoirot said...

Meatloaf said he gave Manson a ride to the Strip one time but didn't know who Manson was till he saw his face on the news for murder.

BTW, can you imagine how Charlie must have felt inside after following the trail of his mother in Oregon and Washington but never finding her? Manson neer saw his mother after 1959 until he was in jail in 1970 for murder. That has got to be awful to find out your mother has made sure you can never find her. I wonder sometimes if she wasn't the root cause of the most famous murders in history. The only reason she showed up at the trials was because she was publically described as his hooker mother. I think she only showed up to counter the bad things being said about her.

v717 said...

Katie said:"In retrospect, Mama Cass's house must have been a 25,000 square foot house to include all the partiers."
-If everybody doing their best it´s not a big problem.-
This is what I call a real party.

katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MrPoirot said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...

Sorry Mr. P. I deleted my comment.

My apologies to you.

I'm going to bed.

MrPoirot said...

So did I.

katie8753 said...

Mr. P, I wouldn't go so far as to blame the murders on Charlie's mother, but it's really gotta suck to never have any parental guidance at all your whole life. It would be like being an orphan. And that's sad....

katie8753 said...

Well, according to the New York Post, Casey Anthony has fired atty Jose Baez.

"Sources told the New York Post that Anthony is furious that Baez has been basking in the limelight and rubbing shoulders with top TV talent, but has not nailed down a big interview deal for her."

Wah, wah, wah.

Baez should count his lucky stars that he's not rotting in her trunk with duct tape over his mouth. LOL.

MrPoirot said...

Larry Flint of hustler mag is Casey's only hope. Will scumbag Flint make Casey a million dollar offer to pose nekkid? How about 2 million?

katie8753 said...

Mr. P, I think Larry already thumbed his nose at skank-sey.

Okay how dumb is this? Casey is in "hiding", she bleaches her hair to disguise her looks (like that's gonna work. It's about as effective as Superman putting on glasses to become Clark Kent), then she puts a video on You Tube to talk about herself.

I know...her mouthpiece said that she didn't upload it...that it was stolen...yada yada. YEAH RIGHT!!

So people are now studying that video and looking to see what's in the background to figure out where she is.

Go figure!! LOL.

MrPoirot said...


leary7 said...

From a music perspective, I have tried a couple of times to imagine Manson making it to Woodstock with Stephanie and see what real music looked and sounded like. (I still play Santana's Woodstock video of Soul Sacrifice at least once a week). I mean Charlie was such a third tier hack act seeing real musicians tear it up would have to have humbled him, or so you would think. But then Manson's capacity for self-delusion was boundless.

katie8753 said...

Casey is a total nutjob. And the scary thing about it is she killed and got away with it. Why not do it again?

katie8753 said...

Hi Leary.

I don't think Manson & Stephanie would have made it to Woodstock. The old Hostess bread truck would probably have broken down. LOL.

katie8753 said...

Hi Bobby!

Now who is gonna clean up that mess??? HA HA.

katie8753 said...

I miss the music from the 60's & 70's. That was some damn good music. Pretty much anything you wanted to hear. Lots of talented writers & singers.

Now it seems like just a bunch of people yelling, cursing and rapping. Unlistenable. Blah.

adam said...

Alex Chilton offered to pick up some grocieries while he was in town for the Family. When he got back he mentioned he'd forgot to get milk and two of the girls blocked the doorway (what's the betting that one of them was Sadie?), refusing to let him in, saying "Charlie said you must go back and get the milk".

Mark Lindsey of Paul Revere and The Raiders was at a party and went into the kitchen to grab a beer out of the fridge. Manson was sitting on the floor with his back to the fridge and no matter how many times Lindsey asked him to move he would not. Manson just kept staring at him. In the end he got freaked and left.

katie8753 said...

Adam, whoa boy. Are you citing Bill Nelson???

Who is Alex Chilton and what is the obsession about milk???

>>>Mark Lindsey of Paul Revere and The Raiders was at a party and went into the kitchen to grab a beer out of the fridge.>>>

Was this at Mama Cass's house??? HA HA.

>>>Manson was sitting on the floor with his back to the fridge and no matter how many times Lindsey asked him to move he would not. Manson just kept staring at him. In the end he got freaked and left.>>>

HA HA HA. So Charlie stared Mark down???

This is how dorky Paul Revere and the Raiders were back in 1969.


Anonymous said...

children by the million scream for alex chilton.


recognize the face at 1:41?

v717 said...

"He was great, he was unreal – really, really good.”
“He had this kind of music that nobody else was doing. I thought he really had something crazy, something great. He was like a living poet.” Neil Young about Manson.
"I mean, fuck, he auditioned for Neil [Young] for fuck’s sake.”
Graham Nash, explaining to author Michael Walker how close Charlie Manson was to the Laurel Canyon scene."

Anonymous said...

a couple more you might recognize

theme song for a crappy tv show

katie8753 said...

Matt, that's YOU at 1:41. HA HA.

katie8753 said...

So Alex Chilton sang for The Boxtops?

Wow...I used to dance in front of my mirror to "The Letter", practicing the Swim, the Frug and the Bugaloo. HA HA.

And...I was pretty damn good at it...I could have been one of the dancers on "Where The Action Is". HA HA.

katie8753 said...

V717, I think that was after Graham Nash sucked down some Belladonna. HA HA.

v717 said...

Yes together with Mama Cass.

katie8753 said...

>>>V717 said: Yes together with Mama Cass.>>>

And now my famous "HA HA HA HA".


v717 said...

Before you go to bed Katie, here is a little lullaby, sweet dreams.

katie8753 said...

V717, thanks for that link.

The Devil's Plaything. What an apt description for the girls.

Some of those pics I've never seen before.

Such sweet cello playing at the end. I'm favoriting that one!!

Thanks!!! Night night!!!

MrPoirot said...

YOU FORGOT THE MILK? You must go get the milk! THE MILK! GET THE MILK! AH-H-H-H-H-H! YOU FORGOT THE MILK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

v717 said...

According to Ed Sanders, Gypsy Share also “arranged for Paul Rothschild, the producer of The Doors, to hear the family music.” It seems as though just about everyone had an opportunity to hear the Family’s music. Some of it was recorded in Beach Boy Brian Wilson’s state-of-the-art home recording studio. Some was recorded by Terry Melcher and Gregg Jakobson at Spahn Ranch using a mobile recording studio. Some was recorded in Santa Monica. By some reports, some was recorded by a major Hollywood studio. Other recordings were likely made as well, though nobody really likes to talk about such things. Gregg Jakobson recorded many of his marathon conversations with Charlie, but as with the demo recordings made by Dennis Wilson, everyone likes to pretend that such recordings were lost or destroyed or never existed.
Melcher formed a particularly close bond with his fellow ‘trust-fund kid,’ Gram Parsons, as did Melcher’s sometime sidekick, John Phillips. Both Melcher and Phillips, of course, knew Charlie Manson (Melcher raved about him to Ned Doheny), whose former prison buddy, Phil Kaufman, was Parsons’ road manager (and cremator). I’m pretty sure though that I already mentioned that, but what I haven’t yet worked into this narrative is that the Doors’ road manager, Bill Siddons, was once a paramour of Mansonite Lynette “Squeaky” Fromme.
The Family’s fingerprints, as always, can be found in nearly every nook and cranny of the Laurel Canyon scene.
Excerpt from David Mc Gowan.
Center for an Informed America.

starship said...

Horseshit, v.

adam said...

The Doors road manager and Squeaky is 100% true.

Jean Harlow said...

I was looking at the older autobiography of Michael Caine in the fall and he said he met Manson at a party - I can't remember what he said about his impressions but there is at least one Hollywood personality that admits to meeting him.

fiona1933 said...

I can so imagine Charlie at the Hollywood parties. That happiness of his would have drawn people like flies. I am about to start studying Sophrology and it really is just like Charlie's philosophy of living at 'Now"

Dan G. said...

I don't think humility was a familiar gig for Charlie.
All that incredible talent would have simply pissed him off eventually. He claimed to have reverence for the musician/songwriter but when Dennis Wilson didn't part the clouds for Chuck, he lost his shit and threatened Wilson to the point that Dennis actually move out of his own home because the family had taken over.
He did meet Terry Melcher at the Cielo Drive house, that's when Melcher was dating Candice Bergen. When Charlie returned to the Cielo Drive house, Melcher had since moved. The new tenants being Roman Polanski and his young wife Sharon Tate.