Patty asked me (Lynyrd), the following question:
"You (Lynyrd) bring up an interesting point. Patty has always found it odd that Brett's site gets called "a great site, one of the best" even though he outed Clem, and basically ruined the man's life (what's left of it). We at Eviliz post recent photos of people, but with little or no effect to their personal lives. We give the blogging community something really different and unique, but we are often reviled for it. What is the reason for this dichotomy? It's a real mystery to Patty. Interested to know your thoughts".
But for you Patty (since you‘ve always been straight with me)… here’s my honest thoughts:
To suggest that Bret never suffered any back-lash for his decision to “out” Clem, is not accurate. His decision met with mixed response/opinion, from the blog community… and mixed feelings still resonate today. He didn’t walk away from his decision “scot-free” with everyone. That notion simply isn’t true.
Bret had a great archive of information, on his site. That’s my only opinion on the subject, and the man. I didn’t know Bret personally, and never communicated with him. He was a complete stranger to me. He was a man from Iceland, with a profound archive of TLB information on his website. That’s the extent of my knowledge, and opinion of Bret.
The big picture:
Each blog and website, has it’s own personality and strengths. If I was doing a serious research paper on the TLB subject… I would choose Bret or Cat’s site first. Colonel’s blog has noteworthy amounts of information, as well. Online… those are the locations, where I’d start.
If I was looking for TLB-related topics, mixed with entertainment, conversation, and laughs… I’d choose other locations… such as your site (Eviliz.com), or mine (LSB3.com). Bret’s site had no comments section… and hence, no humor, or conversation. It should also be noted, that Bret and Cat’s website(s) are/were not technically blogs… they’re websites. So, it’s not exactly an apples to apples comparison, anyway. Bret operated an informational website… not a blog.
At the end of the day Patty:
Each blog, must decide what material/actions they deem suitable. “Outing Clem” is not something that I personally, would have done. Quite frankly, the moral question is beside the point. I simply don’t need anyone mad at me. Ex-criminals and murderers, are generally groups, which I try not to antagonize. Call me crazy like that! LOL
Also, I'm not completely sure that "photos have little or no effect on people’s personal lives", as you claim. Again… that’s another envelope, I (personally) wouldn’t want to push too far… or too often.
I have the names and locations of a half dozen “family-related individuals”… and some pretty snazzy “current photos”. I keep them on my desktop… and that’s where they’ll stay.
As I said… beyond the ethical question… it’s safer that way! LOL The whole “anything for a story” mindset, can be a slippery slope.
What other blogs do, or don’t do… is none of my business. Everyone has to operate according to their own conscience, and comfort level.
For example: Teasing the Monfort clan, is definitely WAY beyond, my comfort level. LOL God Bless you folks… you have balls of steel.
Do the words “Aryan Brotherhood” mean anything to you folks at all? LOL
On a serious note Patty:
I’m not sure I’d poke fun at anyone’s children… especially folks who have buried people in basements. Case in point: Through the years... I’ve told my own blood brother to F#ck-off many, many times. I said something negative about his children ONCE. Let’s just say Patty… I won’t be doing that again. When you insult someone’s kids… they don’t brush it off. Matt (I think) has children… ask him.
My honest opinion on the whole subject is this:
Ultimately, we’re in the entertainment business. We have to post something, to keep visitors coming back. Every time we post something, we have to weigh it’s consequences, versus it‘s entertainment value. Discretion is advised for self-preservation. Getting my ass in a sling with crazy people, to bring-in a few more visitors, doesn’t interest me, in the least. I’ve posted some things in the past, which weren’t such a great idea, myself. It’s a serious decision, every time we press “publish”, and none of us are perfect. That’s my take on the whole mess, in a nutshell.
I want to go on record, as saying:
What other blogs publish, is none of my business or concern. I don’t judge. I have no personal beef with Liz what-so-ever… or Bret. People have the right to make their own decisions, and live with their own consequences. I’m not the blog police… nor, would I want to be.
Patty… I’ve attempted to answer your question with complete candor, and honesty. Hopefully, it won’t come to any ill-consequence, as no harm is/was intended on my part.
Peace, and Best Regards... Lynyrd
It's all good Lynyrd, Matt let me know that he can tell from 3,000 miles away that Patty is PMSsing. Plus she has finals, plus she can't get the damed job she's been trying to get for FIVE YEARS, plus it's dark and cold this time of year and she hates it.
Same time this year Patty called the Col "fat Donny." What can she say, she's human. Death Valley at thanksgiving would have mitigated the whole thing, but c'est la vie.
Thanks for putting up with her moods, and she does appreciate your viewpoint. Very much. She has no beef with you and yours.
ok back to business...hydration, hydroboration, hydrohalogenation, hydroxylation...holyshit-ation...
Ahhh, Lynyrd...the indomitable DUDE.
As Lynyrd would say..."and that's about it". HA HA.
Patty good luck on your finals! :)
PS Patty LOVES the dude.
Also, as she is sitting here PMSsing it occurs to her that it must have been HELL on Spahn Ranch when all the girls got their menses at once: that happens sometimes, you know. What did the men do then? Run for the hills and one of those little Manson caves if they were smart... sheesh.
I've said many times that in spite of all the "love and peace" being preached at the Ranch, there had to be SOME "back-bitin' and cat-fightin'".
You can't get that many women together in close proximity and not have some "meow" sessions. I don't care WHO the hippy cult leader is. HA HA HA.
nice post, Lynryd
very nice post...very classy
I love the DUDE too!
Best post touching it all...
P.S. Patty - don't blame it on PMS or finals... been there, done that...nice try though...
MEN -o- PAUSE is 10x worse... that's when we really become the biatch...trust me...
If I was offered the opportunity to release Casey Anthony's whereabouts, do you think I wouldn't?
I would do it in a New York Minute.
What's the difference?
She's a fucking murderer. She killed her little daughter.
I'll leave it at that.
If you know a killer's whereabouts, do you keep it a secret?
the rumor mill has it that brett committed suicide, it wasn't an accidental overdose or anything like that. i knew brett and found him to be honest and good person in our business dealings.
i meant to continue that brett was affected by outing clem he received tons of criticism and was sued by grogan. that is why he took his web page down. one has to wonder how this played into his eventual fate.
I've always had suspicions, in regards to what you're suggesting.
It wasn't too long after the Grogan situation, that Bret's blog disappeared... and thereafter, Bret himself, went missing.
It was obvious, that Bret had invested hundreds of hours building his website, and likely quite a bit of money.
He also had amassed a large video library on YouTube.
His site was so extensive... I often suspected Bret was independently wealthy.
When did he possibly find time to work?
When his sight went down... whether voluntarily (or involuntarily), one has to wonder... to what extent, that effected the young guy.
I think when he was only 28, when he died.
He must have started that site in his early-mid twenties.
Like I said... it all seemed to coincide just enough, to make one wonder...
But alas... I have nothing more than suspicion, and conjecture.
So Grogan kills another one huh?
Patty just got done streaming "Dear Mr. Gacy," the true story of 18 y.o. Jason Moss' friendship with John Wayne Gacy. Moss also wrote to Manson, Ramirez, Dahmer. He graduated Summa Cum Laude from UNLV, went to U of M Law and became a successful attorney. And then, he killed himself at home in Henderson, NV on 6/6/06. Patty thought of Brett, of course.
Grogan was released fair-and-square by our own parole system.
If Grogan felt he was wrongfully defamed by Bret, he likely had recourse to pursue Bret legally.
Grogan evidently found a lawyer, who agreed to represent him... i.e., felt he had a legitimate case.
Whether Grogan would have won a case against Bret... I have no idea.
But, thing is...
I think Bret became concerned enough to close his site... and who knows how important that site was to him... or how mentally stable Bret was, to begin with.
We're talking about a chain of events.
To say Grogan actually killed Bret... or is personally responsible for his death... is a bit extreme.
This is all conjecture...
Let's not start a witch hunt... unless someone has hard facts... which, I certainly don't.
I loved Manson Family Today- excellent tool for learning if you have interest in this case... The Process- Scientology- Laurel Canyon-
I Think Catts site is an online encyclopedia of this type of information...
I think Liz is a very real and cool down to earth Chic who all of you would want to be friends with if you ever got a chance to talk to her.. she is very sweet and very every day next door type of person actually... she started a site and in less than 15 months it has become known to EVERYONE who has anything to do with this case- that includes the actual PLAYERS in the family who are still out there..
I love this site because it has the most conversation going on at any one time, and L/S and Katie always keep it moving and fresh.....
It is an intriguing web we spin ourselves around in...
BUT L/S is right....
I hope we all keep it safe, and remember reality
Never let the lines get crossed between the good guys and the bad guys... what are purposes are
its all just an internet hobby at the end of the day...
at least to most of us
It really tied the room together
I mean it is a genius idea for a thread...
All the talk on this site about who is really who, and who really knows who...
I dont want to know any of them...
I study this like freaks in a circus- I want to watch and understand...
But to be part of it in any way???
so let me ask all of you...
if it were back then and you were sitting on a hill smoking a jay and enjoying the view of a hot Southern California...
and you were in a great mood with just the right buzz...
and a guy/girl came along and asked you to go with them to hang around some people and have a good time...
and so you go along- and then you get there...
you see them and how they live,and what they are doing. The smoking weed, the dancing around playing music, the children playing in filth- the cowboys meandering around looking at you... the wild eyed teenagers smiling at you. The haggard middle aged men grinning at you...
Would you stay??
Would I ???
Not this site L/S- Sorry for that
I meant on most of the sites- there is always accusations of who is really who- and who knows who and blah blah blah..
If I stayed would I have access to all the girls? Probably not becasuse Charlie didn't invite grounded individuals into the inner circle. The weekend partiers who went to Spahns always went home Sunday evening. It was the lost sould that were cast out of society that Charlie zeroed in on,
As I said earlier...
At the end of the day... those operating a blog, are essentially in the entertainment business, whether they realize it, or not.
Whether it be current photos, old rare photos, good conversation, legal documents, laughs, book reviews, video clips, breaking news, movie reviews, parole hearing updates, an extensive archive of information... some might even argue feuds... you have to present something to keep folks interested and coming back.
It's a simple fact.
Different blogs, present different things... and hence... to some extent... end-up with different audiences.
That's why we have several different types of television shows, on tv.
The content is dictated by the administrator's personality and interests... and hopefully, the interests of the membership.
Also of note, there's the whole Pro-victim vs Pro-Manson element.
For example, "Helter Skelter Forum" clearly leans Pro-victim... others not so much.
In regards to material:
The ideal situation (in my mind), is to present material (when you can), which everyone (hopefully) will enjoy, and appreciate.
If you "wow" 50% of the blog community, and repel another 50%... in my mind, it's not a successful trade.
It's a wash.
Liz plays her cards that way, more frequently than I... or most other blogs.
Let's be frank... that's not my personal opinion, but something which should be evident to everyone, by now.
She's an aggressive gambler, and puts everything she has out there.
That's her choice, and some folks gravitate to that... some don't.
What constitutes "agreeable material" is so very subjective... you'd never get two administrators (or bloggers) to agree.
I will say this though Saint... and it's of reasonable importance:
Before I opened my blog...
I always thought locating and contacting the "principles" related to this case was an impossible task.
Since opening my blog, I've learned through experience... with the leverage of a blog... and modern day communication options... it's really not that difficult at all.
If your goal is to contact and befriend these folks... (certainly not all)... but some... it's really not very hard.
Take my word for it Saint:
ALL the blog administrators have access to some of the players, and current photos... especially Cats.
They simply choose not to go that route.
It's a conscious decision.
You attract the crowd, whose interests and personalities, you cater to.
That's not my opinion, but a simple fact.
Italian restaurants attract folks who enjoy Italian food.
"If you plant corn, you GET corn!"
Judging by some of the folks who frequent my own blog... I should probably keep my mouth shut!
I've got some pretty f#cked-up corn, myself! LOL
I'm not quite sure what my regular "cliental" says about me... or what material I'm presenting, either! LOL
I like to think it's because I'm so easy-going. : )
Sounds good anyway...
Could it be the video of the girl lighting her shit on fire... or the "Buford T Justice" footage???
The beat goes on...
i did'nt know jason moss killed himself.
thats sad...he wrote a pretty good book called the last victim about his contacts with gacy,manson the night stalker and others.
i did'nt know they made a movie about it,i'll have to check that out.
If others are so inclined, they're most welcome to participate in your "who's-who" conversation.
As for me... I must bow-out for now.
I have some views on that subject... but, it's another topic, for another day.. (concerning me personally, that is).
I need a break! LOL
I heard rumours that Steve Grogan sued Bret for "outing" him but did he actually sue Bret?
I know his attorney sent letters to Col- but not sure about Brett Jean...
I don't think Clem got as far as suing Brett. He found some lawyer that wrote Brett a nasty letter. I think the letter is on the Col's site. Can't remember now.
Welcome to the Blog!!
Wow... we've got two Marilyn's, and a Jean now!
In regards to your question...
Follow this Link:
Both Colonel and Bret's Blog are listed on the document.
Here's three more great links, on the Bret subject:
Colonel doesn't have the most "subtle" bedside manner (LOL)... but, as I've said... he definitely has information on virtually every subject over there.
Those links should basically catch everyone up-to-speed, on the commonly known facts, regarding Bret's death.
Beauders usually comes by in the middle of the night, with fabulous tidbits, as well.
We have guests...
Do I have to do everything around here?!
(I'm totally just kidding, with ya'll!)
Everybody's just like:
"Eh, it's over there on Colonel's somewhere....go look for yourself".
Brett's site is actually the first site I stumbled upon researching this subject. I didn't spend nearly enough time there...always thought that there would be more time...such is the lesson in life.
Colonel is the second site I found and suprisedly realized that there were many, many opinions on this case. Which lead me to Evil Liz and Thelma...and from there...here.
Each and every site adds a different dimension to this subject. You just have to have an open mind - I respect each blog for what it offers. There are some that offers more than others -in what I am looking for.
I learn a lot from Lynyrd's site because I feel he let's more people speak their mind - even if he doesn't agree. I also, from experience, feel more comfortable expressing my opinion or asking questions on this site. Sometimes I think other sites resort to name calling or deleting comments that do not fit their particular "agenda" which is probably why I feel I learn more from here than other sites. Too much gets lost in the negativity. I like to lurk at others...but am not exactly motivated to speak up. But that may just be my personality.
This is strictly my two cents...and that is probably more than it is worth...everyone has a cent or two to add. Personal preference is what makes the world go around...what rocks my boat does not necessarily rock others. LYNYRD rocks my boat :)
Brett took his page down after he got the letter from the lawyer. It was down for a while, then he put it back up. We were all thinking "okay it's back up and things are back to normal".
But then it went down again for good.
Thanks Mary! Nicely put! :)
I want to go on record, as saying that Mary ROCKS my boat too!!!
Or, as my Dad used to say:
"The feeling is mutual"! LOL
...and she always shows-up looking smashingly lovely!
Thanks Frank and Kimchi for your support earlier.
Stop-in more often Frank.
Your posts are always spectacular.
One of the truly classic bloggers, from the "hey-day" of blogging.
You've gotta love when Frank shows-up folks!
One of the early founders... and a regal presence.
Lynyrd thanks for posting those links to Col's blog.
I guess as "hostess", I have to say I was on my 15 minute break. HA HA HA.
I'm working on my assignment. My mind is blown...
I went back, and looked at the timeline on that document the other day.
I received that document (via e-mail), and placed it on my desktop June 22nd! LOL
There's just SO MUCH in there, I didn't know where to start.
It kept getting pushed aside, and pushed aside...
I finally realized, if I don't give this to Starship... it's never going to get researched/reviewed.
If you wanna do it in two, even three parts...
I totally understand. LOLOL
Did you ever see that famous Cheech and Chong scene, when Cheech takes 50 hits of acid in the car, by mistake... and Chong says:
"I hope you're not doing anything, for about a month". LOLOL
THAT'S what I thought of, when I sent you that stuff.
I hope Starship isn't doing anything, for about a month!
Starship and I, are not revealing the title, of the top-secret document.
It's for administrators only, until further notice...
Thanks Lynyrd. Thank you for reprinting those links. I do remember when the whole thing went down but was too lazy to look it up on the Col's blog.
Also, thank you for the generous welcome. I have been to your site before but I am usually more of a lurker.
I've seen your screen-name (here and there) in cyberspace, many times.
I'm looking forward to your contributions.
If you'd rather lurk, that's fine too... but, it's a really friendly group here (most of the time), and I think you'd have fun with it.
all I can ever hink of Bret is how he ripped me off. I sent him a lot of money to send me the Hendrickson films and he just took it.
>>>all I can ever hink of Bret is how he ripped me off. I sent him a lot of money to send me the Hendrickson films and he just took it.>>>
Fiona, I don't think Bret was in the business of "selling" Hendrickson's films. He offered to PAY for info or pictures.
If you wanted Hendrickson's films, why didn't you send money to Hendrickson?
I'm dismissing your claim as false.
BTW, is "hink" a verb? LOL.
Ok call me a newbie or whatever, But I an no different from most of the people who visit these sites and am just interested in the case. But I do not understand the post from anyone saying they have recent pictures or information and will never post it??? Isn't that what these sites are for? To investigated and discuss newly discovered evidence? Personally I would not be scared to post any information I had if it helped clear up any confusions or flat out lies. To hell with any existing family members who don't like it, me not scared! And to even insinuate that Brett was wrong for outing Clem is insane, Clem is a mudering pedophile and should never be allowed to hide!!
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