Sunday, June 5, 2011

The "Chicken Coop Kids"
Kimchi Writes:
I've read every book on the Manson case that I could get my hands on, except the new book by Robert Hendrickson that I plan to buy shortly...
But the one that has touched me the most, is a very rare, out of print book titled "The Devils Drop Out".  It was an autobiography written in 1976 by Onjya Sipe, (not her true name) a former Family member (post-murder) and mother of the 12 month old baby in the newspaper article.  She wrote this after she became a Christian, and Bill Nelson even touted it.  I wish it would get republished. 

It hit so close to home for me. 
The year was 1970.  The young lady was from La Puente, (my home town, 27 miles east of LA, next city over from El Monte) she was my sister's age, 18-19 in 1970,  was married very young, had a new born baby named Sheymiah.  They were heavily into the drug scene, mainly earning a living selling drugs all over the West Coast from Laguna Beach to Seattle, mostly pot and LSD.  Welfare checks subsidized their income.

She met the family through a very good friend of hers by the name of "Jenny".  Onjya, her husband and baby had been living with her mother in La Puente, and they wanted to "split the scene", so Jenny arranged for them to be picked up at midnight one night and taken to live at a Family crash pad rented by TJ and Bo, in Duarte (next to Monrovia).

Clem, Gypsy, Lynn, Mary, Brenda, Sandra, TJ, Bo, you name them, they all lived there.  This was during the time the trial was going on.  It was not a happy place.  It was not "peace and love".  These people were violent, dirty, everyone slept with everyone, the first thing that happened when she got there, was Clem pulled her top off and groped her, and yes, she was the one that described "TJ eating out of a dirty diaper".  Clem didn't like her, said she had "bad vibes".

The Family carried on the philosophy that biological parents should "not raise their children".  They had to remain "unprogrammed.  Everytime the baby cried, Brenda would "reflect" the screaming and crying at that poor baby.

The Family (mainly Gypsy) preached that "Helter Skelter was coming fast" and that everyone was going to move to the desert.  Onjya did not want to stay, but her husband (who by this time, was into the groove) insisted they remain with the group.  One day Gypsy announced that everyone was to split up because the "heat was coming down", so it was arranged that Onjya and her husband (minus the baby) would be driven to Lone Pine to wait it out for the revolution and to "lose their ego" then everyone would reunite and be together in the desert.

So Bo and Mary were chosen to drive Onjya, her husband, the baby and the 4 Rice kids to Lone Pine.  They found an old cave in the hills there and that was to be their home.  They lived in the cave for a short time, panhandling, begging, whatever they could to survive, living mostly on rice.

A few weeks later, TJ, a very pregnant Gypsy, Mary and Jennie drove up to check on them - told them it was coming down soon and they would all be together again.  They were taking the Rice kids back with them and talked her into letting them have her baby too.  Gypsy even had her sign a paper giving the "Family" consent to take her baby...(can you imagine?)

Days turned into weeks, weeks into months and they didn't hear from the Family.  Onyja was so heartbroken and missed her baby so much, she decided to hitch-hike down to Joshua Tree to try and find Jennie.  When she got there, Jennie was no-where to be found...seems the Family wanted to kill her.  Jennie had told a mother of a young girl where she could find her, with the Family of course.  Without finding Jennie, she returned to Lone Pine and her husband and the cave.

Months later, her brother and a friend drove up to the cave - told her the police had found Sheymiah, they found her with the four Rice kids, in an underground chicken coop in Lancaster, CA.  Sandra Goode identified the children, but said the 12 month old had been "given" to the family about a year ago.

(I wish Joann would come by this blog, I just want her to know how much I appreciate this story, so very very sad but with a wonderful ending.)
Click Below For Supportive Newspaper Article:


lurch said...

Back Porch Tapes on youtube has video of the chicken coop taken by a news crew. I'll see if I can find the link to it. And finally I know what "Devil's Dropout" is about! Have to track down a copy. Awesome first thread....can't wait to see what's next!

lurch said...

Kimchi said...

Lurch...honest, it's a good read...

In the video you mention, the Sgt. spoke of the baby, but hadn't found her parents yet...her mother was of course, Onyja Sipe wrote this book 5 years later.

She is very descriptive of how they lived, what went on - the house in Duarte is where the Family lived after Spahn and during the trial - so this took place in 1970-71.

Onyja is not her real first name-Her husband's pseudo name was Erutan - (Nature spelled backwards)...LOL

katie8753 said...

Kimchi, GREAT STORY!! Thanks for sharing this! It's so refreshing to hear something new on this case and it's actually factual for a change!!! HA HA.

So we finally have a look behind closed doors and see the reality of the living conditions the family endured.

TJ was eating out of a dirty diaper??? That's disgusting. Is this along the lines of what you had posted on a previous thread...that feces were found in the refrigerator at Barker Ranch?

Not surprising to me at all about Clem. He was a known child molester and didn't seem to have any reign on his over-sexed under-achieved brain. LOL.

But the treatment of the children is the most apalling. I've heard others talk about Dennis Rice and his children. I've even heard that he sexually abused his own children. Don't know if that's true or not.

To put a 12 month old baby in a hole is monstrous. I really don't know why they weren't all arrested for child abuse.

You said the famly wanted to kill Jenny? Was she going to rat them out? Another link to this story that shows their brutality AFTER the murders!!

Thanks again Kimchi!!!!

katie8753 said...

Lurch thanks for the link to BPT. That was very interesting and corroborates this story.

katie8753 said...

Kimchi said: "Onyja is not her real first name-Her husband's pseudo name was Erutan - (Nature spelled backwards)"

HA HA. What'll they think of next?

Kimchi said...

"TJ was eating out of a dirty diaper??? That's disgusting. Is this along the lines of what you had posted on a previous thread...that feces were found in the refrigerator at Barker Ranch?"

No, apparently TJ's remarks were "Charlie said we had to experience everything"...

And the "feces in the refrigerator" came from a police report about Spahn - during the August 16th raid..

I think some of that report was "enhanced" so that children's services could justify taking the kids...most will probably disagree with me, but without testing it, (yes, I said test, not taste!)how did they know? Maybe it was a moldy tootsie roll...LOL

I think it was worded something like this: "what appeared to be feces was found on a plate in the refrigerator and smeared on the outside of the fridge"....

Kimchi said...

"You said the famly wanted to kill Jenny? Was she going to rat them out? Another link to this story that shows their brutality AFTER the murders!!"

Yeah, it had something to do with her telling a runaway's parents where she was.

Onjya never gave Jenny's last I have no idea if this was Jenny Gentry or not.

But she (Jenny) lived in Joshua Tree (small desert town NE of Palm Springs) - that's where Phil Kaufman took Gram Parson's corpse to "cremate" him. So many weird coincedences in this case. It's also where BPT went to visit a friend of Charlies, he called her "Ruby Pearl" in his video, not "the" Ruby Pearl, just a name he made up for this lady.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thanks again Kimchi, for a top-notch thread!

You're the Best!!!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thanks Lurch!!
I posted the video you suggested on the thread, and gave you full credit.
Thanks for your contribution.
You Rock!

katie8753 said...

Good job Lynyrd!!

The newspaper article says the children were found in filthy condition, but well fed.

That's interesting. I wonder what they were fed.

Wait a minute...I don't want to know.

katie8753 said...

The picture of that little boy just breaks my heart!!!

MrPoirot said...

I think some of that report was "enhanced" so that children's services could justify taking the kids...most will probably disagree with me, but without testing it, (yes, I said test, not taste!)how did they know? Maybe it was a moldy tootsie roll...LOL

Mr Poirot replies:

Kimchi I can easily believe the cops falsified or enhanced conditions at the Ranch. Truth can be pushed aside when an agenda becomes the MO.

katie8753 said...

Kimchi/Mr. P., do you know why none of these family members were ever charged with child abuse? I know the children were taken away (thankfully) but were any charges made against them?

Burying children under the ground is barbaric. I know the laws are more stringent today, but surely that would be considered child abuse even back then!! Not to mention the filthy condition of the children.

MrPoirot said...

Katie the kids werent buried. They had been taught to run to the hiding place in the coop whenever cops arrived in order to avoid being taken away from their parents. The hole had a sheet of plywood the kids would slide over to cover themselves from site.

I have no idea why no one was charged with child abuse but it wasnt illegal for families to live in rustic communes.

I'm surprised Sadie wasn't charged with child sexual abuse though. She sexually abused her child. Sadie led a depraved lifestyle I've never understood.

katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...

Thanks Mr. P.

Having the kids hide in an underground coop with plywood covering it reminds me of Jaycee Dugard. She was imprisoned for 18 years in a hidden place in backyard of her captors.

In my opinion, that's all child abuse.

I've read about Sadie's sexual mistreatment of her son, and quite frankly I don't know whether to believe it or not.

Sadie would say ANYTHING to get attention. But..she would probably also DO anything to get attention as well. So for me...the jury's out on that one. :)

MrPoirot said...

Katie I remember a statement by Jeffrey Dahmer's father, about his son, who said "I knew he was mentally ill but I did not know he was depraved".

I think Sadie descended into depravity as well. The Family as a whole were inching towards depravity. This is why Paul Watkins left in March 69. Others left upon hearing Hinman was murdered. Melcher and Wilson backed away from Charlie and the Family as well. Yet there was a tight inner circle around Charlie that were too entrenched in Charlie's indoctrination to turn back until they were sitting in prison facing life.

katie8753 said...

>>>Mr. P said: Yet there was a tight inner circle around Charlie that were too entrenched in Charlie's indoctrination to turn back until they were sitting in prison facing life.>>>

I agree, Sadie was depraved. She was at the brink of madness. Way too many drugs, and way, way too much Charlie.

I feel certain that everything she did was to get Charlie's attention. Good or bad didn't matter. She needed attention so bad it was psychotic.

Yes that tight inner circle around Charlie didn't just include those who were facing the death penalty but also those who weren't.

Just like this story says, Gypsy, Mary, Squeaky, Sandy, et al were still running around doing what Charlie said.

Get the children away from parents. Hide them away. Kill anyone who isn't "into now".

I think they really thought he was going to get out. And when he didn' finally dawned on them that he was nothing but a con artist waiting for a shill.

Kimchi said...

This is why Paul Watkins left in March 69. Others left upon hearing Hinman was murdered.

Mr. P...I love your input...why do you think Paul returned during the trials? He looks happy in the photos..I realize he escaped the "burning in the van"...but why did he come back?

I can't help but think of him as two-faced at times...what he told the DA and what his actions were..

MrPoirot said...

He came back for the girls Charlie had. The Family was a part of him. He was very close to many of them.Yea Paul was two faced. He was a con man to the bone. He discusses being torn after leaving the Family. It took him years to overcome the programming.

katie8753 said...

Off topic for a minute, today is the 67th anniversary of D-Day, when the Allied Forces stormed Normandy Beach June 6, 1944.

I hope that everyone can take a moment to remember the brave soldiers who saved the world from the Nazi hate machine.

Marliese said...

Hi Katie, i put sadie's supposed sexual abuse of her son right alongside someone eating out of a diaper, feces in the refrigerator, and Squeaky getting it on with old George Spahn. The man was eighty some years old. I believe she was very nurturing with him, and I think he was grateful for the attention and flirted with her and may have talked about it, but i don't think for one second he actually had sex with her.

katie8753 said...

Hi Marliese!!

Yes, there are so many "stories" that roll around about this case, it's hard to know what's true and what isn't.

From Sadie drinking blood to Sharon being hung upside down to Rosemary being a drug dealer, etc, etc.

As far as Squeaky and George Spahn go, I'm 100% sure that Squeaky would have done anything Charlie asked her to do. The only thing I know that Charlie asked her to do with George is "keep him happy and take care of him". Not because he cared about George, but because he wanted to live at the ranch and if George was happy, everyone was welcome.

Somebody down the line might have equated that request with "have sex". I agree that the thought picture seems pretty bleak on that subject. :)

Marliese said...

Hi Katie! Oh definitely, she did whatever Charlie asked her to do...I guess having sex is a broad term. i might believe various and assorted other activities...and i don't know, personal care, helping him dress and bathe etc, and somewhere I read that she used to like to get on the bed with him and listen to the stories he loved to tell,
but i can't imagine that old man and Squeaky actually doing it! I'd like to believe there was something in George that treated Squeaky with respect. Also, i always think of Squeaky being entirely faithful to Charlie, at least during those months on the ranch...regardless what he was up to! :)

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Man, I'm freakin' starvin'!!
WTF Squeaky... NO clean dishes AGAIN?

Look punk... after that Crowe incident... you can use Pooh Bear's ass sheet for all I care!
...and so much for the name "terrible". LOL

You're right Charlie.
You're always right...

NO TJ... not a new one!
Grab one fresh of the kid's ass.
That'll teach ya, to pull a gun, like you're told! LOLOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hey Marliese!!!
Great to see ya!

katie8753 said...

>>>Marliese said: I guess having sex is a broad term.>>>

Jerry Seinfeld says you know you're actually having sex "when the nipple makes its first appearance". HA HA.

I think of all the girls, Squeaky was probably the sweetest. I can't imagine her being anything but loyal to Charlie, maybe even still....

katie8753 said...

Charlie opens the door to the fridge.."Gawt-dang-it!! There's nothing in here but a bottle of RC and some do-do.

You girls need to get to divin' in that dumpster and get us some grub!

TJ...yer lunch just crawled over here!

I take off a couple of days and this place goes to hell in a handbasket.

I'm God, Jesus & the devil. And don't you NEVER forget it."


Marliese said...

Thanks Lynyrd! Always great to see you too.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MrPoirot said...

June 6, 2011 3:44 PM

Lynn said...
Was Jenny the same Jenny who calls in while Paul Watkins was on tv? I always thought there was a Ginny and a Jenny....I can't find the book right now, but there wasn't there also a Jenny, a sister of Sandra Good...could it be her?

Thanks for posting. Hard to imagine - such a monstrous act

MR Poirot replies:

There was a Ginny who travelled with Paul from LA to Inyo to help with Bruce Davis' defense. I think this is that Jinny you are speaking of.

Can anyone say if there were two people: a Ginny and a Jinny?

MrPoirot said...

That is to say I don't think there were two ACTIVE Ginnys-Jinny's in the Family. Was Sandra's sister Jenny-Ginny this Jenny-Ginny??

katie8753 said...

>>>Mr. P said: That is to say I don't think there were two ACTIVE Ginnys-Jinny's in the Family. Was Sandra's sister Jenny-Ginny this Jenny-Ginny??>>>

Huh???? Don't understand what you're asking. you have any input??? :)

katie8753 said...

There was a Jenny (Jinny, Ginny) who called in when Paul Watkins was being interviewed, but let's face it, what's real and what's not!

I think that if Paul Watkins was so upset about the family, he would never have showed his face again.

But yet, he showed up at the trials.

That speaks volumes to me anyway. He was trying to be the new big dog in town.

katie8753 said...

And I'll say one more thing.

What's up with diddling the maid? The Cleaning Woman.

Steve Martin.

Am I missing something here???


katie8753 said...

Why do they call it ovaltine. They should call it "round-tine"


katie8753 said...

This is Chopin's Grand Polonaise Brillante Op.22


I wish I could just lay down and hear it!!


That would be peace to me.

MrPoirot said...

But what has that to do with the price of tomatos?

katie8753 said...

Okay Mr. P., The Romas are about $2.89/lb, but they're really soft.

You can go with the "home grown" and they're around $1.89/lb, but, take it from me...they will go bad soon.

You might wanta wait for the "red ripe" but it might take 'til August, but you know....

you might just hafta wait.....


In the meantime, do you want to hear Chopin's Grand Polonaise Brillante Op.2,

or I could suggest The Thrill is Gone by B.B. King......


"On Top of The World by The Carpenters."

It's up to you..big boy....:)

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Katie... are you spamming my blog?

What the heck are you talking about?
Steve martin? Ovaltine? Chopin?

katie8753 said...

>>>Lynyrd said: What the heck are you talking about?
Steve martin? Ovaltine? Chopin?>>>

Just talking to myself LOL.

Steve Martin is the one who went crazy every time he heard the words "cleaning woman" in Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid.

I was referring to all the recent escapades that show that some rich and powerful men are diddling the "cleaning woman".

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Chicken coop kids - Steve Martin.

I'm not seeing the connection.
But, as Sheryl Crow says... "if it makes you happy, then it can't be that bad". LOL
Have fun with yourself. LOL
(That didn't sound right, AHahaha)

katie8753 said...

"Have fun with yourself. LOL
(That didn't sound right, AHahaha)"

I always do! HA HA.

starship said...

I think I can put this whole Jenny/Ginny thing to rest.

Call 867-5309

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

"Jeeenny, I got your number"...
"I need to make you mine"...
"darlin' don't change yo number"...

Thanks Starship...
That'll be in my head all day now! LOL

Is it true, that number sold on E-Bay for a couple hundred bucks?
Or, is that just a stupid myth?

Unknown said...

My name is Shemyiah Sipe... Onjya Sipe is my Mom, and Erutan is my Dad... Real names, Jo Ann and Charles..

Unknown said...

Hi Shemyiah!

You probably do not remember me but I knew you when you were little. You lived up the street from me in La Puente, CA. You and your mom lived with Linda Haynes and her kids Michael and Darlene who we were close to. I remember both you and your mom JoAnn...
Hope you are both doing good.

Teri Zubia

into the mystic said...

Wow!I have never really had the chance to pick up my moms book...I guess i knew about it but did not want to go there at the time..shemyiah is my older sister witch is doing very well now. My mother joann re married and Had 4 other children.Now i must read the book!!!!!!!!!

Sandy Raymonds said...

I am Jenny - using an alias account. From what I have read in excerpts of Onjya's book, it should be labeled as fiction there is so much wrong and/or exaggerated in it. First off -- that 12 month old girl was NOT Onjya's daughter. She was the daughter of Kitty and Bobby. Onya and Erutan - and Shemaya -had left the family long before the raid. I know. It was just me and Beau out there with the Rice children, Kitty's daughter, and a little guy, just a couple of months old named Gabriel.

I decided to leave and walked out one day, saying I was taking the baby out for a walk, walking all day until I ran into trafficked roads and hitch hiking out and away. The raid took place within a week or so of my leaving. The family seemed to think I had turned it in when I turned Gabriel over to Child Protective Services. I hadn't. But they sent word through the grapevine that they "wanted to see me" -- of course, I never met with them but laid low and went on with my life.

This is not the only glaring error in what I have read of Onjya's account.

I have contacted her -- and her publicity agent -- via facebook and am waiting for their responses. I presented Onyja with recollections of things we did together as teens that no one else but me and her would know about so that she knows I am who I say I am.

I hate seeing anyone exploit the deaths of the Manson victims, their survivors or even the suffering that so many of Manson's followers endured when their lives took disastrous turns back then. That she makes these false claims and at the same time calls herself a Christian blows me away. How can she reconcile her gross falsehoods with "Thou shalt not bear false witness". I suppose the financial profit and "fame" and attention within the religious community are worth it to her.

Sandy Raymonds said...

PS --
No I am not Ginny - nor am I the person named Ginny/Jenny who called in to the talk show. I see everyone asking that. I don't know who it was - Gentry maybe?

Also the Duarte house was not rented by any of the family members. It was owned by close friends of mine - a married couple who were expecting a baby at the time. In fact, that's how I ended up there.

I was living in Joshua Tree (and no, Onjya did not live on a commune there - she had rented a little cement block house in the village) I had lived on a commune there -- Thompson Ranch -- but that was before Onjya came to Joshua Tree. I don't have any idea where she gets that she lived on a commune there. She did not.

Anyway, I was living in Joshua Tree, outside of town in an old house that had belonged to a Native American woman (Tahoma) who the commune members had taken care of as she was aging and failing. I lived there with my partner at the time and another guy - a friend who just moved in one day (it was the 60s). My partner and I joined another couple we knew and traveled north to Oregon and Washington for a summer of fruit picking, While in Washington both couples broke up. I ended up staying in Washington a few weeks more and traveling and picking with some people I had met from Boston.

They offered to take me home after the season ended so they took me to Joshua Tree -- but the house I had lived in now was filled with people I did not know and my ex partner had moved back there and had taken up with another woman. I did not want to stay in Joshua Tree so I contacted my friends in Duarte and they told me to come and stay with them. As an aside almost, they said "Oh and there are some other people staying with us -- nice hippies -- their ranch burnt down and they needed a place to stay"

So that is how my involvement with the family began and my friends (whose names I will not share here as they, too, have long ago moved away from and distanced themselves from this era of our lives. I respect their privacy. I will only say that their first name initials were "G" and "C" with a last name of "D". No rental arrangement with family members (where DOES Onjya come up with these things!?) Just some good-hearted hippy people opening their door to some other people who seemed cool.


Unknown said...

Jenny is real and genuine. please find me, i would like to talk
(but not on facebook) "G"

Emmy Taylor said...

Please remove my son's photo from your post. It is in violation of copyright.

Sandy Raymonds said...

@MrFugitie5 --

Jenny real and genuine here. How do I get in touch (not on facebook)? "G" -- as in the old "G & C"?