Wow! The Barker Ranch raid!!! Awesome Lynyrd!
All in a day's work... LOL
I must say, Ruth is stunningly beautiful in that close-up.
I first read Helter Skelter when it first came out. I was in the ninth grade. I thought Ouisch was beautiful. She helped me through puberty. lol. I always thought of her as kind of like Mary Anne from Gilligan's Island with a knife.....
Doc Sierra said...I first read Helter Skelter when it first came out. I was in the ninth grade. I thought Ouisch was beautiful. She helped me through puberty. lol. I always thought of her as kind of like Mary Anne from Gilligan's Island with a knife.....December 10, 2012 1:24 AMOkay Doc, but if you have Mary Ann, who the heck was Ginger? I'm just asking...
Those are some great pix, thanx. The dune buggy pix remind me of the paperwork mentionings of "Dick Joyce Volkswagon" I've seen. At Doc Sierra, there is a vid on YouTube called "Letter to Ouisch". It's a song by a band, I don't have time to look up a link now. I find it amazing how different these people look from one picture to the next. I wonder if they deliberately changed their appearance, much like they changed their aliases.
Hello everyone! A final and a quiz down, now 3 papers and one more final to go!GREAT finds! In the truck pic with Madeline Cottage and Lynn, it looks like Sadie's there too. Or was that during the trial? I'm confused.As for Ruth, hands down one of the hottest girls in the Manson family. Wouldn't mind getting in the way of her and Clem.
Great pics ! Those dune buggys look like something out of the Road Warrior, lol Are they EATING during the raid ? Squeeky is all in, lol ! Ouisch definitely locked in on the camera like a mother bear protecting her cub. For me TLB/Manson pics are the epitome of "a picture is worth a thousand words." (or whatever the quote is,lol)Thanks Lyn ! Great work ! You might want to make your watermark a bit more noticeable next time, lol !
"Mary Anne from Gilligan's Island with a knife"....LOL! One of the funniest remarks i've ever read on the blogs. Thank you! :)
Boy if those dune buggies are finished I'd hate to see what they looked like before they got rebuilt. LOL.Who's the girl giving the "squirrel shot" to the right of Ruth?Lauren I think that is Sadie in the truck bed.>>>Brian said: Those dune buggys look like something out of the Road Warrior, lol>>>Hi Brian!! Right-ee-oo. LOL.>>>Marliese said: One of the funniest remarks i've ever read on the blogs. Thank you! :)>>>Hi Marliese! Doc is a funny guy!
you look at those cops, standing around, probably bored, thinking they were just running some kids off the land...and in reality they had just stepped knee deep into the murder story of the century.wasn't it on the ride back to town that Charlie made some of his most self-incriminating remarks to one of the cops?
Wonder if the girl with braids in the trunk is Katie.Someone help a stupid Lauren here. The pics of these girls were while they were getting arrested? So cops took pictures of the girls getting arrested?I really am interested in the Aes nihil pictures. They sound interesting.
They used at least two cameras in the raid. The pics from the b&w film camera are overexposed.There are two girls with braids in the truck: Katie and Sadie.Wonder where Charlie, Brenda and Leslie are at? The Family's numbers had dwindled at the end but those three should be there somewhere. Looks like the cops are getting ready to transport the arrestees. The arrests took most of the day judging by the pics. The raid itself in entirety took 3 days.I always thought it funny that Charlie even got thrown out of Death Valley. There was no place in society for Charlie.
I was wondering if that was Atkins sitting in the corner of the bed of that truck myself. I think I read the Barker raid took 2 or 3 days overall, from Oct. 10-12. I'll have to look and see if I can find a list of the names of the people arrested.I guess Kasabian had fled, she was arrested in NH I think, Watson fled, arrested in TX, Krenwinkel apparently fled, but I'm not sure when, arrested in AL. It seems to me, another website lists a "Diane Ahn" as being arrested. I suppose this was the last day of freedom for Atkins, Van Houten and Manson. I suppose the police rounded up "a bunch of hippies" for burning a road grader.
Sunset is that Katie w/braids on the left in the pickup? It sure looks like her. If it is then Inyo released her to be rearrested in Alabama.
Not to be on the superficial side, but Madeline Jo Cottage certainly doesn't seem to be the prettiest (in my opinion at least). Could that be Sandy next to Lynn?
Pat Krenwinkel was arrested in the October raid and later released to her father. Her father says that when he got her in the car he started questioning her about "what have you been doing? Where have you been? Who are you hanging around with" and she wouldn't reply.A few days later, she asked her Dad to fly her to Alabama to be with her mom who was living with her sister (Pat's Aunt). She knew that the cops were getting close to the answer on the TLB killings and she wanted to get away. Pat was arrested in Alabama on December 1, 1969. While her lawyers argued to keep her in Alabama, Charlie wrote her and asked her to return to California for a "united defense" with the family. She immediately split for CA because it was what Charlie wanted.
Lauren is Madeline Cottage the girl standing beside the truck in the black cap?She looks like Bonnie Parker.
Lauren Webster said...Not to be on the superficial side, but Madeline Jo Cottage certainly doesn't seem to be the prettiest (in my opinion at least). Could that be Sandy next to LynnPoirot replies:Madeline looks like Bonnie Parker in that photo. Ive only seen her in one color video and she is rather cute but she was said to be mean as hell. She had green eyes. She was smoking a joint in the video. She was also called Crazy Patty but Ive never heard any Family member say why she was caled Crazy when all the girls seemed crazy to me. Ive never heard when she joined the Family or when she left the Family.
katie8753 said...Pat Krenwinkel was arrested in the October raid and later released to her father. Her father says that when he got her in the car he started questioning her about "what have you been doing? Where have you been? Who are you hanging around with" and she wouldn't reply.Poirot repies:LOL! What could she say to her straight laced insurance salesman Father? I've been murdering Pigs? That wouldn't sit well with him.
Poirot, do you mean in the Hendrickson video? I have yet to see that.
katie8753 said... Boy if those dune buggies are finished I'd hate to see what they looked like before they got rebuilt. LOL. Who's the girl giving the "squirrel shot" to the right of Ruth?-------------------------------------Ewwww. A 6 week without a shower, Barker Ranch, psycho, hairy squirrrel shot.... No thank you, my doctor told me to cut down......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTo-96KyArgHere's some really nice pics of Bonnie. She's prettier than Brenda McCann and built like a brick ####house. She liked nice cars, fancy clothes, the finest cigars, the best guns and the man she loved. She was a simple girl in a gentler time.
MrPoirot said... "Sunset is that Katie w/braids on the left of the pickup"I can't tell, I thought Krenwinkel had pretty much jet black hair. At first I thought it was Kasabian, but I guess it can't be her. I'm not sure who it is. From what I can gather, people were arrested at Barker on Oct. 10 and Oct. 12. I think 7 people were arrested on Oct. 12 including Manson, "Cappy" and "Country Sue". Manson was apparently "not around" on Oct. 10. I'll have to look a bit deeper to find out who was arrested on which day. Also, a few days ago I posted a thread about Meyers ranch with info from an "old" blog and I mentioned I sent an e-mail to the person that originally posted much of that material. I received a response from him. Apparently, he knew the Barkers and Meyers pretty well, and has a bit of knowledge of the Manson family.Unfortunately, I'll have to ask his permission before I post his response here. He's apparently an older gentleman and I don't want to get him in any type of trouble. I sent him another e-mail and if he says OK I'll post it here, or maybe make a new thread, (since I halfway know how to do that now).
>>>Mr. P said: LOL! What could she say to her straight laced insurance salesman Father? I've been murdering Pigs? That wouldn't sit well with him.>>>What he should have asked was "who the hell are you driving around the countryside with charging gas on my Phillips 66 credit card". LOL.
>>>Doc said: Ewwww. A 6 week without a shower, Barker Ranch, psycho, hairy squirrrel shot.... No thank you, my doctor told me to cut down......>>>It's the Bizarro World! LOL.
>>>Sunset said: Manson was apparently "not around" on Oct. 10>>>I think on the first raid, he was hiding in the toilet tank. LOL.Just kidding Sunset, thanks for all your research! Much appreciated! :)
Krenwinkle had brownish/redish hair. I bet it is her with the braid, as she had thick,corse hair and I believe theres a mugshot of her with braids/pigtils somewhere.
To magnify the pics click STARTThen click MAGNIFYIf your Windows doesnt show magnify then key in MAGNIFY in the search space.
They dont even look like they're getting arrested. My how times were different then.
katie8753 said... Who's the girl giving the "squirrel shot" to the right of Ruth?-------------------------------------She's breathtaking.
That's Cathy Gilles. She was wearing that handkerchief on her head in her mugshot. Was Leslie arrested in this raid? I don't see what the cops could have charged most of the girls with.
So far, I can only find one source that says Van Houten was arrested at Barker on Oct. 10. I would guess there is a list of who was arrested when at Barker, I just haven't had time to find it yet. I think I've seen one before, maybe even on this blog. I did run across a page with some info and quotes about Van Houten, it can be seen HERE."You couldn't meet a nicer group of people." - Leslie Van Houten speaking to Sgt. Mike McGann about the Manson Family.
>>>Doc said: She's breathtaking.>>>Well...sometimes you just say something like that to be nice. LOL.
You know it's funny. You look at these pictures and all these family members who are getting arrested look like it's no big deal. They're still smiling and eating. Yet their hippy cult leader...the tiny titan, JC, the devil, the soul...is hiding out in the bathroom. Isn't THAT ironic? HA HA.
Exactly my point, Katie. It looks like they're still just hanging out. Thats why I was so confused at first haha.
Mr Poirot said, "Wonder where Charlie, Brenda and Leslie are at?"Wasn't this where Charlie was hiding under the sink and his hair was stiicking out ? lol And he popped out and said in a cheerful voice, 'HI !" or "HELLO !" Or "HOWDY" ? lol
I wonder how many of them were relieved that they were going to a nice, warm jail with beds, showers, and food.....
You know what I always wonder? The Manson family and Charlie is often referenced in pop culture (i.g Family Guy, Marilyn Manson,etc. People often compare men with long hair and beards to Charlie. I wonder how they feel when people casually bring him up or they see the family or Charlie referenced in pop culture. I wonder if they get flashbacks or anxiety. I wonder how Katie and Mary felt when they were cameo characters in the 2004 Helter Skekter movie.
Hello friends, thanks for the photos, first time I see most of them! anyone can tell if these are real Meyers Manx buggys? I think at least the yellow ones could be?
Brian I always thought it odd that Charlie gave the cops his real name on what would be his very last arrest. LASO must have told Charlie that using an alias isn't polite.
MrPoirot said... Brian I always thought it odd that Charlie gave the cops his real name on what would be his very last arrest. LASO must have told Charlie that using an alias isn't polite.-----------------------------------I think that Charlie didn't give a fake name because that would be illegal and he wouldn't want to get in trouble.....
"If you break the law you put yourself in jail", that's what he says
Hi Zara. Good to see you! :)>>>Doc said: I think that Charlie didn't give a fake name because that would be illegal and he wouldn't want to get in trouble.....>>>HA HA. I think Charlie just likes saying his name. Charles...Milles...Scott...Manson. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNwXKp8VlO4
katie8753 said... HA HA. I think Charlie just likes saying his name. ----------------------------------I heard he also used the alias Art Vandelay.
Thanks Katie <3
>>>Doc said: I heard he also used the alias Art Vandelay.>>>Yes he does! LOL. And he also likes to go by the names of Dr. Van Nostrand of "the clinic" or Bob Sacamano. HA HA.
katie8753 said... >>>Doc said: I heard he also used the alias Art Vandelay.>>> Yes he does! LOL. And he also likes to go by the names of Dr. Van Nostrand of "the clinic" or Bob Sacamano. HA HA.----------------------------------I think he's used AJ Pennypacker too.He talked about opening a silver mine in Peru but he changed his mind and built a roller coaster.
>>>Doc said: think he's used AJ Pennypacker too. He talked about opening a silver mine in Peru but he changed his mind and built a roller coaster.>>>HA HA HA. Yeah he was AJ Pennypacker until he broke the pricing gun and spilled desiccants in the dip. I think Charlie's fav alias was "The Drake". LOL.Gotta LOVE The Drake!
I just found somewhat of a description of the Barker raid in Sanders book:"...the small human uncoiling from the cabinet said "Hi, I'm Charlie Manson". The girls arrested were Beth Tracy, aka Collie Sinclair, Diane Bluestein, aka Snake Lake, Sherry Andrews, aka Claudia Leigh Smith.The men arrested were Manson, John Phillip Haught, aka Christopher Jesus, Kenneth R. Brown . . who was a partner of "Haught" from Ohio, David Lee Hamic, aka "Bill Vance", Vern Edward Thompson, aka "Vern Plumlee", Lawrence L. Bailey aka "Little Larry", and Bruce Davis. Sanders goes on to say as they walked down Goler Wash in front of the bouncing police headlights, Cathy Myers and Country Sue rolled up in a black Oldsmobile carrying $500 worth of groceries. "The food was taken into custody also, to save Inyo county taxpayers money by supplementing the jail diet of the prisoners"--The Family by Ed SandersI'm not sure who was arrested on the 10th. That might be my next project.
Cielodrive.com confirmed Leslie was arrested on the 10th.
I received this e-mail from a person that apparently knew the Barkers and the Meyers very well, I've edited it slightly to remove any indication of the authors whereabouts. I have no way of verifying it's accuracy, so "it is what it is":"Arlene Barker, known to everyone as Kirk, went with her husband and children up Goler Wash where Mr. Barker built what became known as the Barker Ranch. Mr. Barker was very resourceful and a very hard worker, and although they had some very good times up there, it was very remote.When the lease for Indian Ranch became available the Barkers leased it for 25 years and moved down there for their desert getaway. There was a huge amount of water there at Indian Ranch if you could keep the piping and ditching in place in the frequent flash floods. They built a nice swimming pool, had a couple of acres of green grass, built a building variously called the store, the ranch house, and several other names that don't come to me right now. Mr. Barker died and Kirk and her girls kept the ranch until their lease expired. In the meantime as you said, Manson was brought up to Goler by the Meyers girl. The Meyers stood firm on not letting the Family live in their place, even hiring a armed caretaker to keep them off the property.Manson visited Kirk and got her OK to live at the Barker Ranch. The Meyers place was much nicer and Manson sent the Gillies girl and another girl off to kill Mrs Meyers. Fortunately for Mrs Meyers the VW they were in broke down and the girls returned to Goler Wash. I doubt that beauty had much to do with Manson going to Goler. What he must have been looking for was a place where he could do what he wanted with no hassle from law enforcement. We went by their place the second year they were there. and it was an awesome trip up the wash from the Panamint side. Pretty much at the limit for Jeeps and Scouts. Manson would come down the talc truck road to make music at the Crow Bar. He was very popular with the desert folks that hung out at the Crow Bar.Manson probably had a number of generators over his years there. Commercial power was a very, very long way away. It was interesting years later to visit the trenches they had dug and see the large amount of wires trying to connect the trenches and the main buildings. As you probably already know Manson's stupidity in shooting up the Park Service's front loader way up north in Death Valley finally brought him down. Tire patterns led the Indian trackers to Ballarat and Ballarat sent them up Goler Wash.By the way, by all accounts, Manson treated the prospectors up in the Panamints very well indeed, providing them with things they probably thought they'd never get.
Sunset...the above photos were from the 10th...Lets see, there was:SadieKatieGypsyOuishLynnBig PattyClem (found in the wash with a sawed off shot gun)Nancy(2) babies - Ivan and pooh Bear?SandyLeslieAnd two girls that turned themselves in to the Rangers on the East Side...I presume Stephanie and SherryI think there were more guys - perhaps Danny?
Forgot To add Mary I believe there was a total of 26 for both days---Someone do the math please? Lol
Was this by PackRat?
Wow, that is an interesting letter Sunset. ThanxThe burnig of the road grader kinda makes me think Manson wanted to be rearrested. I have heard cops tlk about criminals that seem to want to get caught. It's inexplicable to me yet it seems to be an often repeated cycle. Habitual. They keep coming back to prison no matter what.
Mr P...According to the folks that arrested them for burning the Loader was that the Family was pissed because the Parks System closed a road they were using to go to the racetrack...
Charlie gets PO'd and lashes out with violence and destruction and disregard of the consequences of doing so.
And the evening and the morning were the sixth day....
Okay here is a Barry Lyndon Clip.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kF5QqPDjagI will provide the clip where he kicks Barry's ass tomorrow.Enjoy the music!! :)It's not always as it seems. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7ixGAOwCiQLove that Cello & Piano music. Sometimes things aren't what they seem. Push it out. LOL. G'night Jugdish!!!
katie8753 said... Push it out. LOL. G'night Jugdish!!!---------------------------------------- He took. It out. It? It. Out? Out.Oh, it be....
I can play Beethoven's Appassionata Sonata Opus 57 Movement No.3.And believe me it's a hard one to play! Whew.Expose that. HA HA.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz7usUEPWsc
If whoever is tracking me now doesn't know what I was doing on July 20th, 1961, you aren't worth shit. What was I doing?
Tell me.. what was I doing?
I seen no mention of "pack rat" in the letter I got, however, people use many names on the net so I have no idea. I've read there were 2 reasons for the investigation at Barker, the police were looking for stolen vehicles, and the vandalism to the loader. I've also read Manson's dune buggy went into a ditch at night made by the Michigan loader, he nearly wrecked and hit his head on the steering wheel. I think Watson said in his book the loader "tore up some of the roads we were using". I think that's why Manson went looking for that loader. I also think I read that 26 people were arrested in total, I'm still looking for a list, they probably used aliases, so police records themselves might even be skewed.
Was the park police trying to stop Charlie's dune buggy attack battalian from destroying The Racetrack? Could the ditches have been how police 1st began attempts to protect the park from Charlie?
A letter from Bobby BeauSoleil:Hello everyone, This is proof positive that is it possible to have a heart heavy with sadness and one that is filled with joy inside of a single breath. On October 19th my beloved Barbara Ellen, wife and partner of 31 years, very suddenly and unexpectedly passed from this world. A shocking event, to say the least. I’m still reeling. One day she was happily planting bulbs in the her garden for flowers that will bloom in the spring, and the following morning her lifeless body was found lying on the floor next to her bed. In a curious example of synchronicity not uncharacteristic in our relationship, I fell out of my bunk onto the floor of my cell, the only time ever in my life that this has happened, at what was very possibly the moment of her passing. The cause of physical death was subsequently determined to be a cerebral hemorrhage. It was quick, no prolonged suffering, just the sort of way Barbara would have preferred to go when her time came (may we all be so lucky). No muss, no fuss, no lingering illness, no significant debts to be a burden to her family. Just gone. It’s as though she has been stolen from us, as a dear mutual friend aptly put it. I miss her physical presence in my life, of course, every time something happens that I want to share with her, at least a dozen times a day, and I have to remind myself again that she is no longer here among us. We had a 31-year conversation, probing heart and mind, exploring our humanness while aspiring to the higher levels of wisdom. I will miss that conversation like I will miss her gaze, her touch, her uninhibited laughter, her embrace, her kiss, and even those human foibles and faults that sometimes annoyed and frustrated me. There was never anything about her that could realistically stand in the way of my love for her. Ours was a relationship founded on sacred ground, and therefore not subject to threat from something as wholly natural, commonplace, and ultimately trivial as death. We only borrow these bodies to play in this world for a time. This is why our relationship held together all these years despite some foolish lapses of dignity and the hardship of my incarceration. But Barbara was so sturdy, I always assumed I would be the one to go first. I’ve been caught off guard, and now I grapple with unaccustomed depths of emotion, mourning the loss of her, while knowing full well that she is not the least bit lost to herself. Some of you had the good fortune to know Barbara personally; others of you may have known her at some distance, or only about her. In any case, I would like to offer the following words of rememberance, written by Barbara’s son John only days after passing: “Barbara was, and always will be, a shining example of a how a person can live in peace, harmony and freedom. She gave more than she took, she loved more than she feared, and she nurtured everything and everybody around her. We will remember Barbara as a woman of strength, courage, compassion and wisdom-a true Mother Goddess incarnate, treading softly yet powerfully upon this Earth”. So, yes, there are some waves of sadness lingering in the spaces where Barbara once lived, since her passing. No one needs to worry that they may draw me into some morose stupor, however. Barbara would have little patience for that sort of thing. Anyway, she would not have left when she did if she had not been sure that I would remain a strength to her children and grandchildren, and I won’t let her down in that regard. She would not have any of us feel sorry for her, or for ourselves. Any why should we? Barbara lived on her own terms and died exactly as she would have wanted to. I salute her for that, and celebrate the wealth of gifts she brought to the world. In peace,Bobby
Just glossed over Desert Shadows to get the names of all arrested. I don't think I missed any...Oct. 10Chasing Stephanie & Kitty:Steve GroganHugh Todd AKA Randy MorgleaMaybe searching for Clem and RandyRobert Lane AKA SoupspoonLookout post:Leslie Van HoutenPatricia KrenwinkelCatherine ShareInside Barker house:Lynette FrommeSusan AtkinsOn the Barker ranch:Madaline Joan CottageCanyon behind Myers:Sandra Good and baby ZezozoseSeparate canyon behind Myers:Ruth Ann Morehouse and baby Sunstone HawkDiane Von Ahn AKA Mary Ann SchwarmRocks above Myers:Nancy PitmanStephanie and Kitty ran into the police later that night as the police were preparing to tow two dune buggies away.Oct.12Barker house:Charles MansonBruce DavisDavid Lee HamicLawrence Bailey AKA Larry JonesKenneth BrownJohn Haught AKA ZeroCollie Sinclair AKA Beth TracyDiane LakeClaudia Leigh SmithVehicle stopped in Goler Wash:Catherine GilliesCountry Sue-The girls denied knowing The Family. Interesting things in their possession: -list of 40 names and telephone #'s -"an envelope containing a statement from Robert K. Beausoleil to H. Fignslie revealing circumstances of what appeared to have ended in murder and a contract on a 1969 Ford rental car." Anyone know who H. Fignslie is?
>>>Doc said: He took. It out. It? It. Out? Out. Oh, it be....>>>I guess he showed her who he really is. LOL.Hi Lynn.
>>>Revatron said: "an envelope containing a statement from Robert K. Beausoleil to H. Fignslie revealing circumstances of what appeared to have ended in murder and a contract on a 1969 Ford rental car."Anyone know who H. Fignslie is?>>>Revatron, I think Brenda rented that 1969 Ford for Cappy & Country Sue with a stolen credit card. I've never heard of Fignslie. Sounds like a typographical error. LOL.
Haha Katie! Fab news on the side, finished one of my hardest finals!!Where was Mary Brunner?
Hi Lauren. Congrats on your final. Mary Brunner? I thought she was arrested too....
I lose track of her whereabouts after her arrest for credit card fraud in August. She was using a dead man's credit card.......oops. I thought she was in jail 60 days. She should have been out in time to be arrested again for the Oct 10 raid. Maybe she was still in LA.Revatron's list of the arrestees was funny:(quote)Rocks above MyersNancy Pitman(end quote) Nancy was probably up there boinking a rattlesnake. Birds of a feather..
Interesting letter from BB. Much of it reads as if it could have been written from one of Gary Hinman's family. Oh, irony can be such a cold hearted bitch behind bars....
I did a very small/short search for Mary's whereabouts during the raid...found this in Helter Skelter,On Nov. 4th, while in jail, Sadie Atkins told Virginia Graham that Mary Brunner "had been in Sybil Brand not too long ago on another charge; right now she was out on bail and had gone to Wisconsin to get her baby."
Well it's late and about time to retire.>>>Mr. P: Nancy was probably up there boinking a rattlesnake. Birds of a feather..>>>HA HA.Hi Dill! >>>Oh, irony can be such a cold hearted bitch behind bars....>>>Yeah, it's too bad Gary didn't die such a quick death. He was tortured for days and just as missed by his family & friends.Thanks Revatron! I guess Mary was in Wisconsin?To Doc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dalp231zyFAG'night Jugdish! LOL.
Thanks everyone for answering my questions! You all rock!
katie8753 said... I think on the first raid, he was hiding in the toilet tank. LOL.------------------------------------You're absolutely right. I heard Charlie's suing because he never got paid for singing and sitting in that row boat when he was the Tidy Bowl Man.
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