Thursday, October 25, 2012

The Wallet
Last week I was watching videos on YouTube, when I came across a Film called "Manson".  It was a Docu-Drama made by the History Channel in 2009.  The main point of interest to me, was the fact that Linda Kasabian did voiceover narration so it seemed like it would be worth watching.

When it got to the part of the story, where the killers encounter Steven Parent, I noticed something.  After Parent is killed, Tex tells Linda to go into the car and get Parent's wallet which she does.  You can see the wallet in her hands as she goes behind the house to check for unlocked doors and windows.  Heres the Clip:
I don't remember that ever being mentioned before... but o.k. maybe I just forgot about it.  Next I looked at the Larry King-Linda Kasabian interview that was done to promote the Film, but there's not one mention of a Wallet.

You would think being in a car with a dead body and taking a wallet would be a pretty hard to thing to forget.  Maybe she talked about it in her trial testimony, so I looked that up.

Here it is:
"The man just slumped over.  I saw that, and then Tex put his head in the car and turned the ignition off.  He may have taken the keys out, I don't know, and then he pushed the car back a few feet and then we all proceeded toward the house and Tex told me to go in back of the house and see if there were open windows and doors, which I did."

My next move was to Google 'Steven Parents Wallet', and I found I was not the first person to notice this.

On Cats' Forum (TOTL) there is a thread from June 2011 about this very subject, the last post in the thread is by a Poster named 'Eddy' who says about the Wallet:
"According to the Items recovered Steve Parent's Wallet was found on him with $9.00 in it and various IDs".

But then I found this Article on the Cielodrive.com Website:
http://www.cielodrive.com/archive/?p=295

In the Article, is Information about how Steve Parent was identified.
"For 12 hours, the boy’s body had lain on a slab in the coroner’s office while officials sought his identity.  A 'mystery' which  Wilfred Parent (Steve's Dad) now believes should have been solved rountinely".

Apparently, no police officer checked the car’s license number against registration records from the Motor Vehicles Department.

Said Police Lt. Robert Madlock, who initially ran the slaying investigation from the West Los Angeles Division:
“At the time we first found the Parent car at the scene, we were going 14 different directions at once. So many things had to be done, I guess we just didn’t have time to follow up on the car registration.”

Why would they have to run the Registration if they found Parents Wallet on Him?
Why would Kasabian forget taking the Wallet at the Trial after the Murders then remember it Decades later?
Why take the Wallet in the first place?
Where is the Wallet?                                        

104 comments:

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Great Job MattP!

Interesting stuff!!

Josh Bratt said...

she changed her story.....
not the most credible o' people

ST. Circumstance said...

I agree that Linda changed her story as often as the rest of them, and in her case had some help from Bugs as well by the time she told it to the jury...

But this is an interesting point, and a very good question

- It is a fact that Parent was a John Doe for a piece of time- a wallet would have solved that question no???

katie8753 said...

Excellent question Matt. Thanks!

I remember hearing about this wallet thing a while back. Can't remember where I heard it.

I absolutely don't think that Linda took his wallet. She never mentioned it at the time. She might be confused about Charlie giving her Rosemary's billfold. I don't know.

I believe that Steven went home for lunch that day and changed clothes for his 2nd job. He asked his mother to lay some good clothes out for him to save time. Maybe he left his wallet in his other pants???

Venus said...

I remember seeing the show and thinking that it was odd that she was just now (as of the time of the show) telling this story. Of course, we all know what sincere, honest people those killers were, right? They've always told the entire truth. (yes, sarcasm intended!)

katie8753 said...

BTW that short clip of the docudrama has more mistakes than I can list.

It looks like they're driving an old T-Bird. Instead of climbing a wall to get in, they run across a ravine. The house has big glass patio doors on it. And Linda's wearing sandals. Weren't the girls barefoot?

If Linda's doing the voiceover seems like she would have pointed out major blunders. So much for her memory or honesty I guess.

Venus said...

I haven't seen the show since it first aired so I don't really remember all the details except that I wasn't too impressed by it.

Katie, you doubt Linda's honesty???? LOL

katie8753 said...

Hi St Circumstance. 'Sup? LOL.

A wallet would have solved the problem but they could have run the plates and didn't.

You know his wallet could have fallen out of his britches and gone between the seats. Did they even look? I don't think they spent more than a few minutes on trying to figure out who Steven Parent was. They were too busy with the "important victims".

katie8753 said...

VENUS!!! Good to see you! You changed your avatar. I love it! :)

sunset77 said...

Interesting post, thanx.

I'm guessing that the police didn't find Parent's wallet on him. Nearly everyone I've ever known in my life carries their drivers license in their wallet. Had the police found that, they would have know instantly who he was and not listed him as a "john doe".

I'm also guessing the reason Kasabian "forgot" to mention the wallet during her trial testimony was to minimize her involvement in the crimes. (Either of her own accord, or Bugliosi's coaching).

Also, the vid of the "re-creation" seems to differ from Watson's account significantly. I think Watson said they backed the car up to the phone pole, Waston got up on the back of the car as a "boost", and climbed up and cut the wires. He said he looked at the bug light on the corner of the garage to make sure he didn't cut the electric lines. Also, Watson and I think one of the other girls said Watson shouted "halt" as Parents car approached the gate. (Watson had recently visited a buddy on a military base).

I'm guessing if Kasabian snatched the wallet, the money may have been stolen, and it was tossed from the car as were the weapons and clothes. The Manson family weren't the type to hang on to evidence of murder, Charles Manson was well aware that bloody knives, wallets, and pistols with broken hand grips meant the gas chamber.

ST. Circumstance said...

;) Katie

Venus said...

Hi Katie!!!!! The avatar looks rather small, the pic isn't very clear so I'll probably change it again. It'll still be Ann-Margrock! I should change my username to that too.

I don't know what to think about the wallet. I certainly don't trust any of the killers since parts of their stories have changed through the years.

katie8753 said...

Hi Sunset. Glad to see your comments as usual!

>>>I'm also guessing the reason Kasabian "forgot" to mention the wallet during her trial testimony was to minimize her involvement in the crimes. (Either of her own accord, or Bugliosi's coaching).>>>

Well that's a thought, but she didn't forget to mention hiding Rosemary's billfold in the bathroom. I really don't think she took his wallet.

Matt who wrote this docudrama? Do you know? I'd like to know where they came up with this wallet stuff.

katie8753 said...

Venus if you change your user name please let us know.

>>>I don't know what to think about the wallet. I certainly don't trust any of the killers since parts of their stories have changed through the years.>>>

Venus I don't trust them either. It depends on what year it is as to what story is told. I should do a thread on how these stories have changed over and over again. But it would be exhausting. LOL.

Venus said...

That would be a good thread, but it'd take over the whole blog due to all of the changes in their stories! I wish they could be given polygraph exams.

katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...

Sorry, made a boo boo. LOL.

matt prokes said...

I was going to post a link to the History Channel show but when I went looking I found that the Account was terminated.
But it can be found here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MU01KZEFKs
The only problem is its in 15 minute parts the one I saw was the whole movie in one file.
Katie I don't know who wrote it but that was the real Lindas voice talking about taking the Wallet.would'nt you think if it did'nt happen She would say 'hey that did'nt happen!'

katie8753 said...

Thanks Matt.

I don't put a whole lot into what Linda says. Maybe back in 1970 she still had her wits, but in later interviews she just looks fried.

Just sayin'.....

matt prokes said...

Theres lots of mistakes in the Show but most are down to the Producers not knowing their stuff.
Its the ones that come from Kasabians own words that interest Me.
Heres another one that sticks out in my Mind.
Linda says They all took Speed before they got to the House.
"We all took White Pills' I'm quoting that from memory.
Thats the first time i'd heard that as well.


matt prokes said...

Katie said
'I don't put a whole lot into what Linda says. Maybe back in 1970 she still had her wits, but in later interviews she just looks fried'

You have a point there but the Fact remains that Parent had to be IDed by running the Plates on His car as far as I can ascertain which means He had no ID on Him which means what Linda said is possible.
I can understand Her remembering it at the Trial and not remembering it 40 years later but the other way around makes no Sense to Me.
Its been My experience in Life that when Someone Lies its almost always for a reason.
As You can see from the Clip I posted this Wallet thing was'nt just some random thing that got by the Producers like the kind of Car They were driving it was Kasabian saying that She got in the Car and took the Wallet.

matt prokes said...

Sunset77 said
I'm also guessing the reason Kasabian "forgot" to mention the wallet during her trial testimony was to minimize her involvement in the crimes. (Either of her own accord, or Bugliosi's coaching).

This makes the sense to Me on some level but it raises a few questions.
1-If you got away with not mentioning it in the Trial why on Earth would you bring it up all these Years later?
2-There were 3 other People standing there when this supposedly happened,how would Bugliosi know that one or all of the three would'nt testify to what She did thereby putting everything Kasabian said on the Stand in Doubt?

sunset77 said...

Thanx for you comment Matt.

I've just been reading the Steven Parent section on the "Cats" blog, there is a great deal of very good info, I don't read that blog much.

The portion of the trial testimony where Bugliosi asks Kasabian "what happens next"? and Kasabian says something like "Tex told me to go around the back of the house", skipping the part about the possible wallet snatching, is there. I haven't looked into this very much, but I still think she may have forgotten that part as it wasn't that important considering the nights activities, or Bugliosi told her not to mention it.

On Cats site there is also a pic of what is purported to be Parent sitting in the car after being killed, and he appears to be wearing his glasses. Also, there is a pic of what is purported to be his watch lying in the back seat. Someone left a comment saying it was a "Lucerne" brand watch.

Another thing I noticed in this post was the news article saying the police didn't find Parents wallet or ANY OTHER IDENTIFYING DOCUMENTS.

In the state where I live a vehicles registration card "must be kept in the vehicle at all times". Usually the registration is kept in the glove box listing the owners name, address, VIN, tag number etc. Apparently, the registration card was missing also.

Manson family stories often change over the years, exactly why Kasabian mentioned grabbing Parents wallet later, and not at the trial, I don't know.

Assuming Parent had a wallet in the first place, since Kasabian later said to the effect "I took his wallet", I'd say there is better than a 50/50 chance she did take his wallet and possibly the vehicle registration also.

matt prokes said...

Another thing.
Kasabians there because Shes the only one with a valid Drivers license but Watson is doing all the driving?
heres a link to the Larry King interview.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOsRjA1cAtI

matt prokes said...

Sunset77 said
'The portion of the trial testimony where Bugliosi asks Kasabian "what happens next"? and Kasabian says something like "Tex told me to go around the back of the house", skipping the part about the possible wallet snatching, is there. I haven't looked into this very much, but I still think she may have forgotten that part as it wasn't that important considering the nights activities'

I can't imagine getting into a Car with a dead Body and taking the Wallet would be something easily forgotten.
Which leaves us with Bugliosi...

Kimchi said...

I think what Eddie wrote on Cat's forum is right...I remember seeing an evidence log and the authorities did have the wallet and there was $9.00 in it...

matt prokes said...

'And various IDs' is what it said as well.
I looked around and could'nt find that evidence sheet.
I'm not saying it doesnt exist but I could'nt track it down.
If thats true then why would Kasabian say that She took it and why would the Cops have to run His Plates to ID Him?
Every Answer brings more Questions.

MrPoirot said...

She also left out the part about seeing Parent walk to his car and in a panic backing over the curb and knocking down the fence. This is why Tex yelled HALT. Parent was trying to get the hell out of there.
Linda will methodically describe detail after detail and suddenly skip 5 minutes of what happened. She is always making sure to say, "Tex said to do this or Tex said to do that".

CarolMR said...

Why was Steven in such a panic to leave? Because he saw Tex & Co.?
Also, how is it possible that no one in the house or Garretson in the guest house heard the four gunshots?

CarolMR said...

Sunset, you are so right about Cat's blog - I've never read so many theories on how Steven died. I never knew that he was also stabbed as well as shot. I never knew his blood was found in the main house and near the garage. How could that be? Some commenters even think Steven was the LAST to be killed, not the first. All very interesting, but also very confusing.

katie8753 said...

I think the big question is: why would they take Steve's wallet?

They didn't take Voytek's wallet, even though it was lying on the table and Susan looked in it. They didn't take Abigail's billfold, even though Susan went back to her room and Abigail removed $72. They didn't take Jay's wallet. It was on his body.

I really don't think Linda took his wallet. Either she's lying or she's remembering things differently after all these years.

Like Matt said, if she's going to lie about it at the trial, why bring it up all these years later?

katie8753 said...

There's no excuse for the police to not identify Steve's body. Even if there wasn't any ID in the car, the car had plates. We can see them in the pictures.

They could have identified him if they had tried, but they obviously didn't put any effort into it. They just threw him in the meat wagon and toe tagged him "John Doe" and forgot about him. Poor guy.

Josh Bratt said...

so if Linda isn't credible and lies and she's the "star" witness in helter skelter, how can everyone be so convinced of her version of events?
This docudrama coupled with the Larry King interview that was around that same time were both shoddy as far as "facts" go.
SOOOOOO many holes!!!!
Good Morning ALL

bobby said...

Matt said :"Linda says They all took Speed before they got to the House.
"We all took White Pills' I'm quoting that from memory.
Thats the first time i'd heard that as well"

Must be Linda was excluded from the baby food jar of speed, Tex has written he took several big snorts of speed before he left the ranch. Maybe the white pills were the caffine "speed" pills.

bobby said...

Lynyed said "Great Job MattP!

Interesting stuff!!"



Ditto's

AustinAnn74 said...

There was some major goofs in the docudrama. They also put that Spahn Ranch was in Benedict Canyon. Why didn't they do it a little bit more authentic? Linda was NOT wearing Birkenstocks, Sadie was NOT wearing a half-shirt with her whole stomach showing, Manson DIDN'T speak with a deep South accent like the one in this stupid docudrama, and Bobby Beausoleil's nose didn't look like a toucan beak. STUPID!!!

katie8753 said...

Right AustinAnn. Also the docudrama shows Tex shooting Parent from the passenger side which is wrong. He shot him from the driver's side, and Parent slumped over on the passenger side.

And what's up with that trash receptacle by Steven's car? It looks like they're in the middle of a park somewhere.

This film is so lame, just like most of the others on this case.

matt prokes said...

Poirot said
'She also left out the part about seeing Parent walk to his car and in a panic backing over the curb and knocking down the fence. This is why Tex yelled HALT. Parent was trying to get the hell out of there'

Poirot has a good point here,there is evidence of something like that happening on the Fence and the Car.
Taken together with the Fact that Parents blood was found elsewhere in the Crime scene suggests that maybe the sequence of murders might not be what we've always been led to believe.
Maybe Steves blood was transferred there by Watson or Kasabian-which would mean she was in the Car with His Body and not just a bystander.

katie8753 said...

Matt this is the first I've heard about Parent's blood being anywhere else on the crime scene.

The only blood trail map I've seen shows the other 4 victims' blood, not Parent's.

Where was this blood found? Have you found a new map?

matt prokes said...

CarolMr said
Sunset, you are so right about Cat's blog - I've never read so many theories on how Steven died. I never knew that he was also stabbed as well as shot. I never knew his blood was found in the main house and near the garage. How could that be? Some commenters even think Steven was the LAST to be killed, not the first. All very interesting, but also very confusing

Thats where I'm getting this from,I'm guessing Carol read that on Cats site.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Matt. Josh mentioned that too. I'm guessing that's where he got it.

This is brand new to me. As far as I know, Parent's blood was only in his car. If anyone else has information on this subject, please let us know. I'd be curious as to how someone came up with this.

katie8753 said...

As far as the theory that Parent was killed last goes, I did hear that one a while back, but I'm not buying it. The reasoning behind that theory is because Parent backed into the fence because he was afraid.

His backing into the fence could have happened in a number of ways. It was dark and maybe he couldn't judge the distance to the fence. Or maybe he saw some people climbing over the wall and just decided that looked suspicious and was in a hurry to get out of there. There's no way of knowing that now because he can't talk.

Also, all of the killers at Cielo Drive have always said Parent was killed first. No matter how many times they've changed their stories about what happened, that part of the story has never changed.

I still think Parent was killed first.

MrPoirot said...

When the killers got back to the Ranch they had to wash blood off the car. Does that mean that one of their victims ran to Swartz's old Ford which was parked on the street and then ran back to the house to die?

sunset77 said...

I think Watson said in his book he knew Parents car would have to stop at the button to open the gate. He waited till Parent rolled his window down then he moved from the shadows and yelled "halt".

Watson said he had a knife in one hand and the revolver in the other. He apparently slashed Parent cutting tendons in his wrist and cutting his watch band or at least removed his watch. There is a pic of what is supposed to be Parents watch laying on the back seat. The autopsy report I read last night indicated 3 .22 gunshot wounds to Parent. I think I read once before that 1 bullet went through Parents hand, then into his chest. That may be why some people claim there were 4 shots.

If the car doors were unlocked, it would have taken Kasabian only a few seconds to open the door and snatch Parents wallet, and then perhaps run around to the other side and grab the contents of the glove compartment. I don't know if they wiped fingerprints, or if the police even dusted. Considering the police didn't even check the tag plate for ownership, I doubt they dusted for prints on Parents car.

I think I read at one point during the trial when Kasabian was testifying, Susan Atkins blurted out "why don't you tell your part"?. Atkins was apparently under the impression Kasabian was omitting the details of her participation. I suspect she probably was, and I'm guessing at Bugliosi's coaching. Bugliosi probably figured if the defense wanted to discredit his witness, fine, but he wasn't going to do it for them.

If there is some type of "evidence sheet" people mention concerning Parents wallet, it would be important to note when and where Parents wallet was located. According to police and news reports, it wasn't found on Parent the next morning.

Finally, on a related note, what I've read of Kasabian's daughter Tanya makes her another chip off the old Manson block. She is apparently known to police as "Lady Dangerous". "Also in the room officers located a .45 caliber semi-automatic handgun, ammunition, electronic scales, a plate with cocaine residue, and another bundle of cash . . . Tanya [sic], found guilty of possession of controlled substances, was sentenced to a year in state prison."--The Col's Blog.

katie8753 said...

>>>Mr. P said: When the killers got back to the Ranch they had to wash blood off the car. Does that mean that one of their victims ran to Swartz's old Ford which was parked on the street and then ran back to the house to die?>>>

Mr. P, good point. I doubt that any of the victims ran out the gate and down the street to the Ford. I'm assuming that the blood on the car was left there by Tex or Pat when trying to enter the car. When you stab someone relentlessly, blood splays everywhere. I'm sure they were covered in blood.

katie8753 said...

>>>Sunset said: If the car doors were unlocked, it would have taken Kasabian only a few seconds to open the door and snatch Parents wallet, and then perhaps run around to the other side and grab the contents of the glove compartment.>>>

Why would she do that? Why steal an 18 year old's wallet and registration? What's in an 18 year old guy's wallet anyway? A couple of bucks, a membership club to the local spa, some phone numbers to local girls, an unused "hopeful" rubber?

Why did they not steal anyone else's wallets, billfolds, registrations??? People who actually had money.

That doesn't make sense.

MrPoirot said...

If you were Steve Parent walking back towards your car at midnight and saw the phone lines lying in the parking lot and four people dressed in black clumsily hidden amongst some scrubby bushes; would you think your time to die had arrived?

katie8753 said...

>>>Mr. P said: If you were Steve Parent walking back towards your car at midnight and saw the phone lines lying in the parking lot and four people dressed in black clumsily hidden amongst some scrubby bushes; would you think your time to die had arrived?>>>

I don't know if he would think his time to die had arrived. Maybe he thought they were party crashers. But in any event, he probably thought it was time to head "stage left". LOL.

MrPoirot said...

Linda has told several stories about the Tate murders in the past 40 years. I think I remember one version where she says tex told her to get Parenr's wallet but she never did what Tex said.

I doubt the cops were honest about the wallet either. There was obviously a foulup about the Parent murder scene. There should have been prints from all four killers on the hood of Parents car from them all pushing the car backwards. It is as if the cops had too many bodies to deal with. Ive never heard any of the detectives say they arrived and immediately took charge and assigned each victim a forensic team with one detective.

P.S. Did Linda change clothes after the murders? If so, why?

katie8753 said...

Let's see, what else would you find in an 18 year old's wallet that had any value....?

His library card?

A picture from the Jr/Sr Prom?

The combination to his old HS locker?

His draft card?

The stubs from two movie tickets to see The Graduate?

The appointment card to the next visit to the optometrist?

A "two for one" coupon for a Big Mac at McDonald's?

Some quarters for another car wash?

Wow! That's worth stealing! HA HA.

matt prokes said...

I could go for a Big Mac right about now.

matt prokes said...

Poirots right about fingerprints on the Car unless they were wiped off later by....someone.

matt prokes said...

Maybe the Wallet was stolen (if it was)for the same reason Rosemary Labiancas Wallet was stolen.
Place it somewhere to implicate Someone else in the murder.

matt prokes said...

Check out the first comment at this link.
http://tatelabianca.blogspot.com/2006/04/submission-is-gift-give-it-to-your.html

katie8753 said...

Matt I could go for a Big Mac right now too.

"Two all beef patties, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onion, special sauce on a sesame seed bun".

Yum!

I think CM went back and wiped the prints from Parent's car, as well as other places.

OK, I'm going to retire to William Gaines' Mad Magazine. HA HA.

We'll talk tomorrow. Good points.

Night :)

bobby said...

Couldnt wait to get back home today> Charlie would be so proud of me. My youngest daughter & I planted a couple hundred trees today for Make A Difference Day. Eldaberry, Red Osier, Silky Dogwood & meadow sweet. Hey ATWA eat your heart out. Whatever that means' I am sure ATWA does this stuff everday. Anyway had a great time & now we are heading out in the woods in pursuit of Venison.
Bless"s to everyone on the blog.

Venus said...

Good for you, Bobby. Did you do it as part of an organization or was it just something you came up with? There's a magazine that comes with our newspaper and they always talk about "Make a Difference Day." Pretty soon they'll have an article about what people did today.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Bob, you ROCK!!!

Josh Bratt said...

The blood of Paretnbeing elsewhere is also mentioned in Schrek's book, I believe. Not that that makes it true or not. I also think I've read it on Cat's blog too. Kimchi, have you heard the blood being elsewhere notion? I'm pretty sure I heard or saw it multiple places though.

Kimchi said...

Hi Josh- yes I have read about blood in other places, I think it was on Cat's site...I think they had long discussions and different scenarios played out...if I remember rightly, the blood was found in the garage or something

Kimchi said...

Hey Bob, looking for venison? There were 3 does, 3 fawns, and a 4 pointer buck in our front yard this morning!

The buck was pretty frisky and chased the others off...my husband had a big adrenaline rush, I'm glad he didn't have a rifle in hand, lol...

bobby said...

Venus< Thank you.I have been representing The UnitedWay at our office for many years. The make a difference day is fairley new. We had hve a guy at work that walks trails and this group takes care of them and has interest in wildlife birds and certain plants.

bobby said...

thanks Kimchi< we didnt get anything tonight Mow hunting season here in upstate western NY right now. we did see a small buck as it was getrting dark.I have benn lucky enough that my daughters oldes 17 have have only eaten Venison.I wish I was closer to you !

bobby said...

not mow , bow

bobby said...

wow, I just read my posts, I would like to claim wet and cold for my terrible spelling and grammer. However, I think everyone knows that my selling and grammer is always very bad !

MrPoirot said...

Tex had to walk from Parent's car to the main house by walking in front of the garage.

Tex's bayo was probably the main deciminator of all thee victims blood in the yard, parking lot and front porch. I think Tex was deliberately pointing the bayo down to let it drain off blood drippings.

Kimchi said...

Hey Bob, rifle season here until Nov 2nd....my husband says one of the fawns is a spike, he was born and lives on our property, I will chase him off before next year....I consider them pets but my husband does not. ;(

Kimchi said...

Mr P, I can't comment on all the theories regarding the blood spots...there were so many, I kind of lost interest, unfortunately...

bobby said...

I feel for you Kimchi, I have made a lot of pets of the deer here where I bow hunt & won't shoot them. Cant shoot does anymore either. I'm kinda of a sissy when it comes to the deer hunting now.

katie8753 said...

Hey everyone on the East Coast. Please batten down the hatches. I hope each and everyone of you stay safe and dry. :)

Bobby, good for you! You are Johnny Appleseed! I'm sure Charlie is proud of you. But he would be prouder if you had "offed some pigs". Evidently it's okay to kill people, but not animals. LOL.

katie8753 said...

>>>Mr. P said: Tex had to walk from Parent's car to the main house by walking in front of the garage.>>>

I believe the rumor is Steve's blood was IN the garage. There was no blood found in the garage.

Regarding Steve Parent's blood being scattered all over kingdom come, there seems to be no evidence other than idle gossip, so I'm going to dismiss it as foolish nonsense.

Just my opinion. :)

TomG said...

I got the hattches battened down.

from all of us in south jersey to hurricane Sandy.......

BLEEP YOU YOU WHORE.....

katie8753 said...

Matt in regards to your previous link about Kasabian, I'll give my opinion of Linda Kasabian.

I think she's a scumbag. She joined the family willingly and impuned her daughter willingly and without thought. She was anxious to be a big part of the family. So anxious she stole $5000 from her husband's friend. But when things started going south, she turned on them like she turned on society.

She tried her best to shoot up in the family ranks to Top Dog, but when push came to shove, she stepped on them like stepping on dying people in quicksand to save her own worthless hide to get to dry land.

She saved Nader. So what! She didn't save anyone else. Didn't even bother.

Her interviews and commentaries in the years after make bile come to my mouth so quickly I have to gag.

I know that people don't like Bugliosi. I have my doubts about him too. I think he went bonkers years later. I really wish him the best.

But I think that in his mind, without her, he would lose his case against Manson and the killers. Which was probably true.

Anyway....that's my 2 cents about Linda Kasabian.

katie8753 said...

Tommy!!! Be safe!!! :)

Josh Bratt said...

I never heard it was in the garage, I believe it was spots outside. I'm not sure though. Save the Deer KIMCHI!!!! Run Bambi Run

katie8753 said...

Josh, Parent's blood was never found anywhere but in his car.

If you have proof otherwise, that his blood was scattered all over the place, please expound.

Seriously, I'd like to know what it is. This gives a whole new take on this case if it's true.

katie8753 said...

The only blood trail map I've seen didn't include Parent's blood. Is there another map that hasn't been published? Please let us know.

Josh Bratt said...

No need to get huffy....lol.....so blusterous we are.....I only said that's what I thought that I had heard. Actually I repeatedly said that that is what I had thought that I had heard. Lots of THATS!!!
Either way and anyway, I do believe we are here to discuss, so I am attempting discussion. I don't own any blood maps nor do I concentrate much on murder and blood. I am interested in peoples and eras. Maybe there wasn't any blood anywhere but in the car, who knows. Opinion is hardly fact.
:) Peace and Love and Blustery Blustery Blusterousness.....Bluster away ;)

Josh Bratt said...

I never gave any thought to the Parent blood thing because I always figured that would be too big to be an oversight and that if it was being discussed that the Parent blood subject would blow up if it had been true.
So many pieces that don't fit in all this though. Linda Kasabian being a huge one.

Josh Bratt said...

Since I don't make sense to me....lol
I was basically agreeing. I think things and ideas and facts are missing, but Parent's blood being elsewhere would be too big to not have come up. In my humblest of opinions :)
KIMCHI!!!!!

katie8753 said...

>>>Josh said: Peace and Love and Blustery Blustery Blusterousness.....Bluster away ;)>>>

Well thanks Josh. You've hurt me. I was only asking questions as to where you got this info, and you attacked me like this. Poor conduct on your part.

I still hope the folks on the East Coast are safe....

Kumbaya My Lord...

MrPoirot said...

The absolute biggest lie Linda told was "we heard a car coming and Tex told us to hide".

1 They all saw Parent walk to his car.

2 They heard him close the door.

3 They heard his car back over the curb and hit the split rail fence.(the cars metal undercarriage left scrapes on the cement curb)

I suspect that when Linda was born she was sitting on her broom and flew out the maternity ward.

katie8753 said...

Well I'm going to listen to music. My soother. Mr. P, you're funny. You crack me up sometimes.

>>> suspect that when Linda was born she was sitting on her broom and flew out the maternity ward.>>>

Yana The Witch. HA HA. I agree.

katie8753 said...

I'd like to hear Stevie Ray Vaughn on an acoustic guitar. WOW!

katie8753 said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWLw7nozO_U&feature=autoplay&list=FLP59i4xh8VcH0FGLZJ92Mbg&playnext=6

Stevie Ray Vaughn. Great Stuff!!

katie8753 said...

Well Josh attacked me and didn't apologize.

Who cares?

Up next...Fleetwood Mack Oh Well with Peter Green....Great stuff.

Oh well.... HA HA.

MrPoirot said...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2223392/Fans-crazy-Rolling-Stones-stage-intimate-Paris-warm-gig.html

Here's the rolling stones from their Paris gig in a small bar this week.

katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...

If they can say it with no proof, so can I.

Kimchi said...

To set you straight Katie, Josh is NOT a newcomer, he has been here (in the shadows) since I have...it's only recently he agreed to post comments...

He's read every book out there on this case and can practically recite them...

He's also open minded and offers a different view to this discussion room---isn't that what blogs are about? In your eyes, apparently not....if someone doesn't agree with you, you call them names and start a fight ...that's a "turn off" to me...

Kimchi said...

One more thing, Josh has provided me with numerous documents and videos over the years to assist in my research---things I've never seen elsewhere or didn't have access to....some of the things are posted on this blog.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Kimchi.

I guess my idea of talking about this case is different from most others. I thought we were supposed to get to the truth.

But evidently it's just a gab session of whatever the latest book is about, no matter how factual it is.

It's gotten to the point where you can't even ask a question anymore. So why bother.

I'll just let everyone change all the facts without question, according to whoever wrote the latest book.

sunset77 said...

To the best of my knowledge, I can find no evidence that Steven Parent even had a wallet, other than what Kasbian said. I haven't found any evidence the police ever found it, or what might have happened to it.

I did find "On Friday, August 8, 1969, Steve ate lunch at home and asked his mother to lay out some clothes for him, so he could make a quick-change in-between jobs. After leaving Jonas Miller Stereo, Parent stopped at Dales Market in El Monte to talk to John LeFebure, the older brother of a girl he once dated. From there he drove to Benedict Canyon, and arrived at 10050 Cielo Drive at about 11:45pm. He had hoped to sell a Sony AM-FM Digimatic clock radio to William Garretson." on another site.

I also found a pretty good view of the famous pic of Parent slumped in the car with the door open. The slash on Parents left forearm is visible, along with his right hand covered in blood.

The autopsy report indicated powder burns on either Parents clothes or skin. If Watson stuck the muzzle of his pistol through the car window and shot Parent at very close range as the powder burns indicate, which would have been easy to do with the long barreled pistol, and the other windows of the car were rolled up, it would have created a "silencer" type effect. This might explain why no one heard the shots. Garettson said he heard "firecrakers", but he also said he seen a 3 eyed baby that night also.

Josh Bratt said...

I don't attack people Katie. You are very blustery at times. I could've used different words if I was "attacking" you. You don't know me but seem to be able to make blanket assumptions. I'm not attackin you dear. I'm fully aware that you believe the Bug and Sanders. So, when I put out anything, especially towards nighttime, I'm aware that you are going to swoop in, in the night and post things against me. It's the way you operate sweetheart.
As Kimchi said, I've been here for quite a while and have watched you and everyone else. I post because I love Kimchi and Lynyrd is a straight shooting, level headed guy. I typically do not post because there are those that have close minds and are constantly looking for arguments. SOOOOOOOO
My opinions are mine and they are not fact. In MY opinion Helter Skelter is increibly flawed and Manson has been convicted of witch craft in modern times. MY opinion.
But.....Again, I know that blusteriness will ensue, so Bluster away.
That is not an attack Katie.
I bluster too, it's a human thing, we're blustery folk. There just seems to be a lot more venom to some of us as well as a hard time separating "fact" from "opinion"
KIMCHI!!!!!! lol
The whole world is FUN!!!!
Everyone should SMILE more.
GOOD MORNING KATIE!!!!!
I'm not attackin you.
X:)

katie8753 said...

Thanks Josh. My apologies to you for over-reacting.

I don't know why it's so important to me that everyone be on the same page. That's never gonna happen anyway.

I wish everyone a good and safe day. Frankenstorm is coming. Be safe everyone! :)

ReesesPeace said...

Hey to all in the path of the storm....be safe, be well! =)

Kimchi said...

Sunset said:

----To the best of my knowledge, I can find no evidence that Steven Parent even had a wallet---

Sunset, I have a copy of the property report, but I can't edit this thread or I would post it.

The wallet and contents are most certainly on there, along with Steven's check book and other items including the clock radio..

I've sent it to Lynyrd for posting.

CarolMR said...

Wouldn't Steven's parents or sister know if his wallet had been left at home?

CarolMR said...

I hope everyone here who is on the east coast stays safe.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

EVERYONE:

PLEASE SEE STEVE PARENT'S EVIDENCE AND PROPERTY REPORT ON THE ABOVE THREAD.

grimtraveller said...

A few additions years after the debate.....

In that 2009 documentary on the TLB killings, Linda does not say she took Parent's wallet. We all assumed that she did because she says that Tex told her to "get his wallet" and she got into the car. But once inside the car, she says that she was sitting next to this body but she knew he was no longer there {as Tex had shot him}. Not once and nowhere does she actually say that she took the wallet.
It's comparable to the Sharokh Hatami incident in the sense that for 4 decades we've all assumed that Hatami and Sharon saw Manson at the Cielo house in March '69. But if you read Bugliosi's account, it is him that jumps to the conclusion that Hatami and by extension, Sharon, saw Manson. This is because Sharon said to Rudi Altobelli the next day "did that creepy looking guy come back ?" We assume therefore that it was Manson she saw. But Hatami never identified Manson. He described a guy he'd sent once to the back house and Bugliosi assumed it was Manson. He assumes this because that same day, Altobelli was disturbed by Manson at Cielo. But Altobelli saw him in the evening and Hatami and Sharon saw the "creepy guy" in the afternoon. In court, when shown a picture of Manson, Hatami could only say he resembled the guy he'd seen. He never positively identifies him. But because on 3 occasions in "Helter Skelter" Bugliosi states that Sharon saw Manson, we've all assumed that to be the case, regardless of it's bearing on the case {which is negligible at best}.
Well, Linda and the wallet is rather like that. She says Tex told her to get the wallet but she never does say that she did. Furthermore the property report clearly lists the wallet in it, complete with credit cards and money in it. Linda later testifies two or three times that she was shocked that the Family actually murdered for money, referring to the $72 Abigail gave to Susan.
The reason the police took so long to do anything about identifying Parent is that he was unknown but the people in the house were not and also, William Garretson had failed to ID him. The movie star effect set in quickly........and has never really abated.