Saturday, September 29, 2012

Neil Young compares Charles Manson to Bob Dylan in his new autobiography, "Waging Heavy Peace".
By Evan Schlansky - September 26th, 2012
Here's what Neil Young says about meeting Charles Manson:

In his fascinating new autobiography, Waging Heavy Peace, professional contrarian Neil Young speaks positively about convicted murderer Charles Manson’s songwriting skills. Young met Manson through their mutual friend, Beach Boy Dennis Wilson, in the Sixties.

“After a while, a guy showed up, picked up my guitar, and started playing a lot of songs on it,” Young writes. “His name was Charlie … Kind of like Dylan, but different because it was hard to glimpse a true message in them, but the songs were fascinating. He was quite good.”

Full Article:http://www.americansongwriter.com/2012/09/neil-young-compares-charlie-manson-to-bob-dylan/
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Josh said: "All those guys were WAY more involved with Manson than they let on at trial. Look how much time and money was spent just to record him. Bad things went down and all the business people ran for the hills".
 
Paul Watkins echoed the same sentiment with Maureen Reagan

85 comments:

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thanks Kimchi!

johnnyseattle said...

it's pretty clear that before he became infamous, charlie was impressing a number of talented musicians and industry types.

CarolMR said...

If Charlie was so impressive, why couldn't he get a recording contract?

katie8753 said...

Thanks Kimchi! :)

Carol you crack me up. That's a good question. HA HA.

johnnyseattle said...

if Charlie was so bad, why were the Beach Boys spending hours recording him at their studio and why did Neil Young praise his musical skills?



johnnyseattle said...

Maybe the issue with Charlie wasn't so much if he had a talent, rather it was how marketable the talent was which is all a record company would -quite properly- care about.


MrPoirot said...

Without Charlie's guru status would he have been considered talented musically?

johnnyseattle said...

that's a great point, MrPoirot.
maybe it was the whole schtick of music, girls, and drugs which was a package that couldn't be sold to the folks in the midwest.

from what i have read, it wasn't his guitar playing or musical vocals that were so intriguing rather it was his ability to make up songs/lyrics on the fly. his ability to improvise.

for me, when i listen to his songs i only find a few that i like and even that is always tempered by the thought of who is singing 'em.

Kimchi said...

I read somewhere that when he was in the recording studio he wouldn't "follow instructions" or didn't want to do things "their way" only his way and insisted on having all the girls right beside him at all times or he wouldn't record....

Can't remember where I read it though...

TomG said...

You probably read that in Ed Sanders book The Family.

Manson was too mental to manage musically, or any kind of way.

It is what is is. He is who he is. And when you consider investing time and money on someone, you probably want them to be reliable people.

The streets are littered with nutty people who missed the big time.

TomG said...

Hey Katie, I got Texas vs Oklahoma State on the Vizio! Good Stuff.

Ha Ha Ha.

katie8753 said...

Tom, you hit the nail on the head.

If you're a wanna be star, you can't afford to make waves. It's the same in any job. If you're a newbie at the receptionist desk, you can't demand that someone bring you a cafe latte every morning at 10:00am.

Manson was making demands while trying to get a recording contract. That's a no-show.

When you're a big star, or a high paid employee, you can start throwing fits and making demands. Otherwise, you're cutting your own throat.

Manson's anger at not getting a contract can only be directed at himself. He, and he himself alone, is the reason he didn't get taken seriously and run off.

katie8753 said...

Tom, UT is leading OSU. Who are you for? Go Horns!!!

TomG said...

I have no dog in this hunt since I am a Rutgers Scarlet Knights fan.

But for you, I will root for Texas. Hook 'em Horns!

Mrstormsurge said...

University of Miami Hurricanes fan, hence the "stormsurge"

TomG said...

In the 80's, the Canes were the shit. But they've been shot down back to earth.

katie8753 said...

Stormy!!! :)

MrPoirot said...

SC Gamecocks fan here.

TomG said...

Ha Ha! My bestfriend from high school went to South Carolina.

We got back in touch by facebook.

Thanks Mark Zuckerberg. And I'm still rooting for the Longhorns, Katie!

Ha Ha Ha!

katie8753 said...

The Horns won over OSU. 41-36.

Josh Bratt said...

it's also been said that Manson went to these sessions by request, not because he necessarily wanted to and that it was a chore to get him to the studio. "I had 15 girls, a sleeping bag, a guitar and a motorcycle, what the hell do I want a job for?" "That's a bigger prison than I just got out of." Not verbatim quotes but they're close to what Manson always say's about his so called aspirations to be a pop star. Maybe he just didn't want to and humored thsese folks (Wilson etc) because they were his friends. Then when good ol' Tex shows up and changes the whole ranch dynamic the music and industy types hit the road. Who know, but since everyone else was so sure about things, I thought I would take a swing at being "sure" about things too. :) Hope ALL are well!!!! PEACE KIMCHI!!!!! LYNYRD!!!!!

johnnyseattle said...

Josh Bratt, i think you are probably closer to the truth then many.
Just point out to folks, it wasn't Charlie paying for those sessions. And we are not talking about a one time deal in which they rented the studio for an hour. Multiple visits for some fair chunks of time. That involves some real money put up by others. They were trying to replicate in the studio what Charlie was able to do when performing in front of folks. Much of it likely kept buried deep in the Beach Boys vaults or probably destroyed at some point.
It may not be your cup of tea or mine, but it was 'something' that interested folks like Neil Young and Dennis Wilson. Others like David Crosby didn't think too much of Charlie and his musical ability.
But enough did...that Charlie proved to be unstable and started scaring the crap out of folks helped to put an end to any career and a whole lot of disclaiming 'i never met manson' or 'i met him once and that was it' type of statements.

Shreck covers a lot of this in his extensive book. Still hoping others will find the time to pick up the book and give it a read.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I really should re-read Ed Sanders' account(s) of Manson's recording sessions... and his dealings with Stromberg, Kaufman, Melcher and Wilson, etc.

In the beginning of his book (the first 75 pages, or so)... Sanders gets quite detailed and specific about Manson's recording session dates... the circumstances (and people) surrounding those dates and experiences... and Manson's behavior during those sessions, etc.

Sanders answers most of these questions, but it's been so long since I've read those pages... I hesitate to comment without refreshing my memory.

One thing that always struck me as a bit curious:

If my memory serves me correctly... Manson's behavior during those sessions, doesn't really jibe with the long-held notion that he was "stardom hungry".

It seems Manson took a lack-luster, unprofessional, unprepared approach while he was actually IN the studios... even wielding a knife at one point, much to the horror of Stromberg.
Im pretty sure, Manson even left town and blew-off one recording opportunity completely.
Again... I'd have to go back and refresh my memory... but, that's what I recall.

As Josh implied:
Manson had a funny way of demonstrating his desire for stardom to those engineers/producers, if that was indeed his mindset.
I've also pondered that thought myself.

But then again... "stupid is, as stupid does". LOL!
I'm sure Manson has shot himself in the foot many times.

So, as usual... the question becomes:
How much weight do we assign to Manson's behavior, in determining what's inside his head?

Could it be, that Manson was simply NOT as interested in a music career as most folks believe?
(As Josh suggested)

OR...
Was Manson, in fact, VERY interested in a music career (as most folks believe)... and just too much of an unseasoned hick to behave himself, and present himself appropriately for success?

I mean, let's face it... it's easy to say you're not interested in something, 10 years after you've failed.
Example:
"Oh... I never wanted that college degree anyway". LOL!
It's a commonly used defense mechanism, based on pride.

Just thinking aloud...

sunset77 said...

I have a great deal of Manson's music saved on my computer, I've listened to a lot of it. Apparently, there is an entire group of people that only follow Mansons music, they pretty much know when and where each song was recorded, or at least pretty much.

I think Neil Young described Manson as a "song spewer". Manson played "jailhouse guitar", I knew several guys in prison that played like that, they were very good, but not "bigger than the Beatles".

At the end of some of Manson's recordings, he can be heard talking to people, I often wonder if one of the people is Terry Melcher, I don't recognize his voice well enough to know.

katie8753 said...

If Manson wasn't interested in a musical career, why did he go to Cielo Drive looking for Melcher, then try to get Rudy to help him out?

CarolMR said...

Hi, Katie. I was wondering that myself - why did Manson go to Cielo looking for Melcher if he wasn't all that interested in becoming a star? If Manson really didn't care about stardom, then that would eliminate a motive for the killings - that he had a meltdown in August of '69 because he couldn't get a recording contract.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I DO like some of Manson's older music from the 60's... not all, but some.

His guitar playing was somewhat "unpolished" and erratic.
He chopped-away at chords.
But he had a pleasant voice... and his themes, lyrics, and melodies were interesting.

I've always said, that Manson's real talent was song-writing... not performance.

There are musicians in conservatories, who major in composition and song-writing.
Many of those guys rarely (if ever) perform live.

Songwriters and composers can make an entire lifetime (and a good living) writing music for others.

Manson had the potential to make money feeding song ideas to others.
That's where he missed the boat.
As for performance before huge audiences... I just don't see it.

Trouble is...
To be a lyricist-songwriter, you have to be able to work with others in a professional setting... and vice-versa... others have to be interested in working with you.
Therein lies Manson's obstacle.

I speak in the past tense regarding Manson's music intentionally... as, I don't think he's done anything since the 60's worthy of mention.

Sure Manson's music will still sell due to his name, notoriety, collectability... and the novelty attached to him... (just as John Wayne Gacy's child-like paintings still command big bucks).

But the reality... from a purely musical perspective... is that Manson has not grown musically over the last 40 years... he's declined.
His guitar playing is the same... and his voice is shot.

Steve Grogan on the other hand, went into prison as a novice guitarist (comparable to Manson)... and emerged, much more talented.
Grogan is a MUCH better guitarist/musician now, than he was in the 60's.
Manson unfortunately, is not.

Listen to Grogan's guitar playing on the "Family Jams" album... and then listen to Grogan with "Rhythmtown Jive".. and you'll clearly see/hear what I mean.

"Family Jams" = a dude strumming basic chords to folks music.

"Rhythmtown" = electric jazz rhythms and leads.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

"She was bred in Ol' Kentucky, but she's just a crumb down here".
Moe Howard


LOLOL!!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Funny when you think of it:

"Clem" was supposed to be the moron of the group... yet he's the only one to be released... and he taught himself a marketable skill, while in prison.
Dumb like a fox, evidently.

I wonder how "stupid" Clem feels while sipping wine and ouzo, outside scenic cafe's in the Mediterranean?
LOL!

katie8753 said...

>>>Carol said: If Manson really didn't care about stardom, then that would eliminate a motive for the killings - that he had a meltdown in August of '69 because he couldn't get a recording contract.>>>

That's true Carol. If we eliminate that motive, we're only left with the "race war" motive, and I think we can all agree that's bogus.

If Manson wasn't interested in a recording contract, why didn't he just say "thanks...but no thanks". I can't imagine anyone strong-arming Manson into doing something he didn't want to do.

katie8753 said...

>>>Lynyrd said: I wonder how "stupid" Clem feels while sipping wine and ouzo, outside scenic cafe's in the Mediterranean?
LOL!>>>

Yeah that stupid act paid off. I wonder how Bobby, Bruce, Tex & Charlie feel about him having a life now when they never will.

johnnyseattle said...

katie8753 said...
If Manson wasn't interested in a musical career, why did he go to Cielo Drive looking for Melcher, then try to get Rudy to help him out?
September 30, 2012 1:31 PM

It doesn't make sense Katie as at that point Melcher was living out in Malibu and Charlie knew that already.
He had been out to the beach house and in fact Doris Day talks about how Manson had copped her Telescope off their deck.

From what I understand the two people who say that Manson was out there that time looking for Melcher were Hatami and Altobelli. That's the Helter Skelter version that also makes it seem like it was the only time that Charlie had been inside the estate which is probably not true given that Moorehouse had lived on the estate months before, Tex had lived on the estate, and it's likely if you have those two on the estate that more than a few other Mansonites had been in the estate.

Kimchi said...

Josh said:

"it's also been said that Manson went to these sessions by request, not because he necessarily wanted to and that it was a chore to get him to the studio"

Johnny said:

"And we are not talking about a one time deal in which they rented the studio for an hour. Multiple visits for some fair chunks of time. That involves some real money put up by others. They were trying to replicate in the studio what Charlie was able to do when performing in front of folks"

You guys got me thinking so I went back and looked it up in HS -

I agree with both of you....

Melcher went so far as to bring Michael Deasy out to Spahn Ranch as he had a mobile recording unit, but Deasy got stoned on LSD while there, freaked out and never made the recording.

***JOSH***

Kimchi said...

I just read up on Deasy - He spent 3 DAYS at Spahn Ranch during that episode...and to this day, he won't discusss what happened during those 3 days, just that he OD'd on LSD and after that, he became a born again christian.

johnnyseattle said...

Kimchi said...
I just read up on Deasy - He spent 3 DAYS at Spahn Ranch during that episode...and to this day, he won't discusss what happened during those 3 days, just that he OD'd on LSD and after that, he became a born again christian.
September 30, 2012 5:14 PM


hey, seeing pat krenwinkle and dealing with susan atkins will make a man turn to the Lord...

seriously, a three day mobile recording unit is a big investment. in the Shreck book the author interviews the sound engineer who recorded hours of manson and his group at the Beach Boys sound studio.

Kimchi said...

LOL Johnny....who knows what Deasy saw out there! I've read different interviews with the sound engineer, can't remember his name....isn't he the one that talks about the 100 hours of Manson tapes that disappeared?

Josh Bratt said...

Schrek's book is good. There's also another essay out there that pulls everything together in a cool, sensible way. I'm not sure if we can post other blogs or not and I'm not entirely sure who the author is so I won't put it up, but it's good too. It falls in line with the schrek book which I thought was very good. Good Afternoon everyone :) Bobby also has been quoted as saying it was a chore to get Charlie into the studio. I like the rhythm in his guitar.....he's kinda okie tribal.....lol

johnnyseattle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...

Johnny, Hatami and Altobelli both testified that Charlie showed up at Cielo Drive in March of 1969 looking for Melcher. This was shortly after Melcher stood Charlie up after agreeing to hear the family sing on Gresham Street.

If he already knew where Melcher lived, it doesn't make sense that he was asking where he was. And he did ask where he was....

johnnyseattle said...

spot on Kimchi/Josh

can you imagine what it would cost back then to get studio quality time in that quantity?

hey Josh, run it by Lynyrd, see what he thinks about posting a reference to it.

I am hoping others will find the time to read the Shreck book. It may not have all the answers but it sure pushes the understanding forward. 20 plus years of research make the $64 cost a bargain.

i always thought of charlie's music as kind of a blend between folk and rockabilly.

johnnyseattle said...

Johnny, Hatami and Altobelli both testified that Charlie showed up at Cielo Drive in March of 1969 looking for Melcher. This was shortly after Melcher stood Charlie up after agreeing to hear the family sing on Gresham Street.

If he already knew where Melcher lived, it doesn't make sense that he was asking where he was. And he did ask where he was....


---------
Katie, yep straight out of Helter Skelter. That's coming from Bugliosi and Altobelli. Depends on how much confidence you place in those two.

Josh Bratt said...

All those guys were WAY more involved with Manson than they let on at trial. Look how much time and money was spent just to record him. Bad things went down and all the business people ran for the hills.

katie8753 said...

Johnny, I actually got that from Ed Sanders' "The Family".

Why would Hatami lie about what Charlie asked him?

johnnyseattle said...

katie
hatami testified that charlie asked for someone but didn't say it was melcher.

johnnyseattle said...

this is what Hatami said in court:
" manson arrived at the door, and asked for someone whose name i did not recognize. i don't think it was melcher. i felt a little protective towards sharon and i said loudly, 'this is the polanski residence. there is no one here of that name.'

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Yeah... but, I have to wonder:

Did Deasy go to Spahn's with the full intention of recording Manson for 3 days straight... or, did he go to Spahn's with the full intention of recording Manson for 2 hours straight... and then got so stoned, he couldn't stand-up to leave? LOL!

With all the young girls out there, I think I would have stayed for a month! LOL


"He won't discusss what happened during those 3 days, just that he OD'd on LSD and after that, he became a born again christian".

LMAO!
There seems to be quite a connection between LSD, and Born-Again Christianity! LOL
We see this phenomenon time and again. : )

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Josh said:
"All those guys were WAY more involved with Manson than they let on at trial. Look how much time and money was spent just to record him. Bad things went down and all the business people ran for the hills".

I agree with that statement.

Paul Watkins says exactly the same thing, during a tv interview with... (what's that woman's name MattP?)...

Anyway, Watkins says the exact same thing, in a tv interview.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

OK... I just remembered.

It was during Paul's interview with Maureen Reagan.

katie8753 said...

Johnny why would Altobelli lie about what Manson was asking him? What motive could he have? And if he asked Altobelli about where Melcher was, I think it's pretty safe to bet that he was asking Hatami the same thing. Maybe Hatami didn't speak English very well and didn't understand.

If I was mad at someone and wanted to speak to that person, and I knew that person had moved to a new location, and I knew what that location was, I wouldn't go to that person's last residence and ask the new tenants where that person lived. It doesn't make any sense.

johnnyseattle said...

katie
you are right, that is the point. the Helter Skelter story of Manson coming to Cielo doesn't make sense.

see Shreck from page 428 to 439 for a nice discussion of this. it'll rock your world. it sure makes more sense than Manson coming to look for Melcher when he knew Melcher was out in Malibu.

johnnyseattle said...

as to Altobelli and why would he lie, Bugliosi was interested in Helter Skelter and not what was transpiring up at the guesthouse on Cielo.
Altobelli was testifying because Bugliosi wanted him to tell a tale.

recall that anyone skeezy enough to sue the Tate Family for damages done at the Cielo Drive House is someone in dire need of scruples.


matt prokes said...

The 9-11-67 sessions show a guy who does have talent and a weird charisma.
The most complete version circulates under the name of 'summer of hate'.
It used to be availible for download on the mansonmusic blogspot but the file has since been deleted.
I'm sure its still out there somewhere but if anyone interested heres a link to lots of Chuck Manson tunes.
http://mansonmusic.blogspot.com/
I agree with L/S almost everything hes done since 67-69 is pretty worthless but at one time he was'nt all that bad.

katie8753 said...

Johnny, Altobelli didn't sue the Tate Family. He sued Sharon's estate.

You are probably too young to remember, but between the murders in August of 1969 and when we found out who the killers were in December of 1969, the newspapers were going crazy about the victims. All kinds of made up stories to sell papers (which were NOT true). They were in devil worshiping cults, they were having satanic orgies, they were hobnobbing with drug dealers, etc., etc.

I don't know the protocol of when you rent a house to someone who is savagely murdered and there's a mess to clean up. I've never been in that situation (thank God) but I do know that the house belonged to Rudy and he had to get it cleaned to rent it out again or sell it.

I'm not saying that it was a nice thing to do, but at the time, he was probably thinking that if they were engaging in some type of immoral activities that put themselves in danger, that the estate should pay the cleanup.

He later said he was sorry he had to do that. And I don't think that would have anything to do with lying about Charles Manson being there in March of 1969.

katie8753 said...

Altobelli was also upset that Voytek & Gibby were living there. Their names were not on the lease, which is a violation of the lease.

johnnyseattle said...

sorry katie, there is no way in hell i would be suing the estate of the victim to clean the house.
we are not talking about major structural damage here.

although he was suing the estate, it was the family who had to fight it in court. it was a low class thing to do and eventually he settled it for very little money.

in terms of altobelli, delve into him a bit and you may find he is no angel.

katie8753 said...

I'm not defending Altobelli by any means...just trying to explain why he may have done that.

On a side note Johnny, they had a Beverly Hillbillies marathon today in honor of their 50th year. They debuted this week in 1962.

Funny stuff!! The House of Granny. LOL.

Kimchi said...

Katie said:

"He later said he was sorry he had to do that."

Can you source this? I've never heard this before... it was all business...

I believe the studio was paying most of the rent on Cielo, but it was in Roman's name...business or not, I think it was wrong...

You said he sued Sharon's estate...how come the Tate's had to pay out? Not as much as the original suit, but I believe they paid something on it...

Oye, I'm getting off topic, sorry.

johnnyseattle said...

hey, head over to brians show. it is live tonight

house of Grannny....

Kimchi said...

Katie said:

"He later said he was sorry he had to do that."

Can you source this? I've never heard this before... it was all business...

I believe the studio was paying most of the rent on Cielo, but it was in Roman's name...business or not, I think it was wrong...

You said he sued Sharon's estate...how come the Tate's had to pay out? Not as much as the original suit, but I believe they paid something on it...

katie8753 said...

Oh and Jethro starts going to Miz Pott's private school for young boys in the 5th grade.

"Naught guzinta naught = naught". HA HA.

johnnyseattle said...

"You said he sued Sharon's estate...how come the Tate's had to pay out? Not as much as the original suit, but I believe they paid something on it..."

for that, I am referencing to Statman book.

Kimchi said...

Yes Johnny, but what else can you reference on the Tate side?

johnnyseattle said...

for the impact on the family, that's what i have.

Kimchi said...

Me too...

lurch said...

What if Manson went to Cielo NOT to look for Melcher, but to case the place, find out who was living there?

Just an idea.......

Asking for Melcher would give him an excuse while he checked out the new tennants.

He definately knew Melcher was no longer living there......he already ripped him off in Malibu.

katie8753 said...

>>>Johnny said: for that, I am referencing to Statman book.>>>

Yes I know you were. I was hoping that no one would ever mention that book on this blog again. It's filled with erroneous facts.

Please don't mention it again. I say that as a friend.

Kimchi said...

Lurch, so true...

But what reason to do so in March?

katie8753 said...

Charles Manson did come on the Cielo Drive property in March of 1969 and ask where Melcher lived.

If any of you can prove me wrong...do it....now!

katie8753 said...

Well Aint Pearl and Granny are arguing and Jed says "Cain't ya'll say something nice about each other.?

Granny says "What can I say?"

Jed says "Well you can say Aint Pearl has the body of a young woman."

Granny says "Yeah and she should give it back, she's stretching it all outta shape."

Josh Bratt said...

prove he went there looking for Melcher. Prove is a large word when 40 yrs is tacked onto it. :)
Altobelli knew more too. All those peeps were not so "squeaky" clean :) Hope all is well this evening my friends!!!

ST. Circumstance said...

Saint C has been echoing this sentiment ever since he started blogging :)

I have always said that I believe the Manson clan came into contact with the Cielo people in the Laurel Canyon Music/ party Scene.

I put some dots together but people said I was leaping to conclusions without proof...

Dennis Wilson refused to talk about Charlie after the crimes for the rest of his life. We know he was around them- and he wouldn't talk about it.

If we cant prove others were around them- after 40 years- why would they talk?

:)

When bugs/Sanders? cant remember which-

first mentioned Cappy in there book- they called her a " Buffalo Springfield groupie"

we know Cappy met the family and went with them around this time, and we know Neil young was in Buffalo Springfield- but some wont consider the fact they all were in the same place at the same time, Which had to be the case for Cappy to get handed off from one to the other( or leave one for the other) they need Neil young to admit it in his own words for it to be a fact...

well if nobody else who has to- will do that- how will we ever be sure about who knew who when?

If we dont use some common sense and what we DO know about who was where when- after 40 years- the puzzle will stay unsolved....

Same thing. Some of the same people- Crosby Stills Nash ( later joined by Neil young) formed and came together at Mama Cass Elliots house in the same area and right around the corner from where Gibby and Voytek lived. Crosby of course had just been kicked out of the Byrds- managed by Terry Melcher.

Dennis Wilson and Terry Melcher and Neil young all knew Charlie- and hung around with him and played music with him. but none of the people involved in any of there day to day lives did- because they wont say so?

I think it is a fair and logical conclusion that most of these people had - at the very least- come into contact with each other....

we have to make SOME informed assumptions- for as more time passes and more lives move on- the chances of full disclosure become less and less. if we get close enough, or push hard enough on some people whom common sense and basic geography says had to have been around - we MIGHT someday get the lucky piece that makes the others fall in place.

But If we wait around for the tell all book from XXXX- or the long awaited interview with YYYY to tell us for sure that Professor plum did it in the library with the pipe- we may be a long time waiting.



ST. Circumstance said...

I have decided to take on a role on another site. despite my differences with some reading this at one time or another- I really enjoy the LSB3 site. I have great respect for the administrators and the staff and all the maniacs who come in here and drive me crazy. ALL of the sites I belong to work together for the most part, and I hope to continue reading great ideas and hearing all of the witty barbs here as well as hearing what you have to say when you are visiting and reading mine..... which I hope all of you will do
( I dont know if they will let me post my own pics- but promise to try)

Great people come here- great people run the site, and I have been lucky to participate and am very grateful for the fun and knowledge it has brought me...

I have been fortunate to see my life change a-lot in the last 6 years, but it wasn't always fun and games. prior to this last 6 years I had never used a computer in my life outside of video games- and so my ability to transfer my personality and sense of humor from real person to cyber world isn't always what I hope for. Sometimes I fail miserably, but from the bottom of my heart I try my best. Most of you take the good with the bad and let me have my fun. Some others hold me closer to what I say and make me responsible for every thing I type. I honestly wouldn't have the same experience here without all of it. I have never been and will never be a perfect soul, but I would hold out my hand to help any one of you if I could and you needed it. that goes from Marliese and Katie whom asses I kiss- to Leary and JimNY whose asses I have tried to verbally kick. it would not be the same without each and every one of you.

My most sincere thanks to all :)

Saint(ST) Circumstance

katie8753 said...

St. Circumstance, you're a dear, dear friend whom I have enjoyed blogging with for YEARS! I do hope you reconsider joining in on our conversations. You have great ideas and opinions.

Til we meet again.....:)

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Saint.

I agree...

Manson interfaced with some very big names in the music industry.
There's really no other way to slice it.
Whether it was his charm, his talent, his girls, or "the times"... or maybe a combination of all the above... fact is... it happened.

I also agree...

We have to make some informed assumptions (or "leaps of faith", as I call them)... as, we simply don't have all the pieces to this puzzle.

And as you said... the chances of finding those pieces diminishes, with each passing year.

I also believe (as Josh communicated), that some pieces were intentionally discarded and/or obscured, by folks scrambling to distance themselves from the fall-out.
I think that goes without saying.
I mean... what hollywood person, wants to be connected to murders?
Talk about a career-killer.

I wish you the best, in your new undertaking... whatever form, that may take.
I assume you'll be helping Matt... but, that's just an assumption, as you haven't elaborated.
I trust you'll see the blog world, through a whole new pair of lenses, following your new experience. : )

It's always been a pleasure having you around... whether it be here, or elsewhere.

Peace... LS

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Coming October 12th...

http://youtu.be/mODz1OpTo_8

Looks pretty cool.

katie8753 said...

I do think Charlie went to Cielo Drive in March 1969. Looking for Melcher? I don't know. But he was there. If 2 people said he was there, then it's so.

>>>Lurch said: What if Manson went to Cielo NOT to look for Melcher, but to case the place, find out who was living there?>>>

This is very possible Lurch. Manson told Tex to go there and kill everyone. He said there were some "movie stars" living there. Maybe he saw Sharon and recognized her.

Harold True said in an interview that he thought the Cielo & Waverly killings were because Charlie wanted revenge. He said in both places Charlie was rejected. I know that some people don't put a lot of stock in what True says, but I do, being that he was actually there and knew Charlie. He can pretty much sum him up. He's not basing his opinions on what Charlie "said". He's basing it on his gut feelings.

katie8753 said...

And I'll ask again...if Charlie didn't want a recording contract, why did he attend the recording sessions?

I can't imagine anyone bossing him around.

MrPoirot said...

Harold True was embarrassed that it becamr public knowledge that he hung with Charlie and his scummy, murdering hippie girls. I don't think True ever wanted his new wife to know the type of lowlifes he partied with.

lurch said...

I think Charlie wanted a recording contract more than anything. Problem was, he wanted it on his own terms.

Manson obviously didn't like being told how to things, and was deluded enogh to think his talent was so great that he could dictate his own terms as far as recording/performing.

Massive drug use combined the failure to become "bigger than The Beatles", as well as finding himself responsible for providing for 20+ Family members must have been a hard pill for Charlie to swallow. Not to mention a HUGE blow to his ego.

As Charlie said himself-"Ego is a too much thing"

Josh Bratt said...

I've never bought the Beatles infuence on Charlie either. I think those kids loved the Beatles, but I'm not so sure about Manson. It's nowhere in his music and I feel like if they were such a large influence that the Beatles should pop up in Manson's music. Musicians tend to have their influences pop up in their own music. Just a thought.....

starship said...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/magazine/neil-young-comes-clean.html?pagewanted=all

I'm glad somebody posted on this. I was thinking of it myself. Above is a link to a piece in the NY Times Magazine...good stuff. I want to read this book, but won't get to it for a long while myself. I fear we already have heard all he has to say about Manson just from the amazon.com website.

starship said...

And as far as Manson and Hollywood and the music scene etc: one of my favorite quotes comes from Keith Richard and, as someone who has been professionally associated with the msuic business since the 1970s, I can attest:

"The music industry is the sleaziest business you can be in and still not be a gangster."

Lynn said...

A little late to the party....St., not sure where you are going- hope you still stop by...love reading your posts and thoughts. Maureen Reagan (who interviewed Mr. Watkins) is the adopted daughter of Ronald Reagan and Jane Wyman. I believe she died of cancer. I think Charlie was not disciplined enough to be a pop star. I also think ego is involved....he had not worked for much of anything in his life,so why start now. Still, it stings when you are rejected. I think he was envious of what others had but didn't want to work to get it himself. Just my thoughts. Hi everyone!

katie8753 said...

Hi Lynn! :)

CarolMR said...

Lynn, Maureen Reagan was the bio daughter of Ronald Reagan and Jane Wyman. Her brother, Michael, was adopted. She died of melanoma, a usually fatal form of skin cancer.