Thursday, May 10, 2012

Dave Grohl is filming a movie about "Sound City" Studios...
Did Manson really record there??    
Article below by Max Evry - May 2, 2012 

In the spring of 1991, Dave Grohl didn't want to work, he just wanted to bang on the drums all day, but he entered Sound City Studios with Krist Novoselic and Kurt Cobain and emerged a fully-formed grunge god.

Thus is the transformative power of one of the great recording houses of the modern rock era, and while it closed its doors as a commercial studio in May 2011, Foo Fighters frontman Grohl has announced (via AintItCool) that he will direct a documentary tale of how "Sound City" shaped Nirvana's breakthrough album, "Nevermind," and a slew of others.

The storied studio was integral in the birth of legendarily boss albums by Neil Young ("After the Gold Rush"), Fleetwood Mac ("Rumors"), Tom Petty ("Damn the Torpedos") and, um, Charles Manson, many of whom will appear in the doc to recount all the tracks (and lines) they did there. Not Manson, though.

Yet the doc is not Nirvana-centric, and covers the gamut of Guns and Roses, Rage Against the Machine, Slipknot, Nine Inch Nails, and Metallica, as well as the aforementioned old fogey rockers.

Grohl writes:
"SOUND CITY is a film about America's greatest unsung recording studio. It was witness to history. It was home to a special few, intent on preserving an ideal. An analog church, a time capsule, the last bastion of a craft defied by technology. It was rock and roll. Hallowed ground. And it was our best kept secret… like the dark hallways of Sound City Studios itself, it might not be pretty… but it's for f**cking real."
http://www.nextmovie.com/blog/dave-grohl-nirvana-sound-city-doc/
==================================================================
   Lynyrd Responds...
This article was sent in, by one of our regulars.  Being the eternal skeptic, I set out to confirm Manson's participation at "Sound City" studios, before posting this article.
 
A few things fueled my skepticism regarding Manson's participation at Sound City Studios:

#1) The news regarding Grohl's movie is everywhere on the internet.  There's probably 100 articles circulating.  Only a small portion (such as this one) mention Manson at all. 

#2) A small portion of video spots regarding this movie mention Manson... but Grohl's offical movie trailer, does not.

#3) Manson was recorded at "Universal Studios" in North Hollywood by Gary Stromberg in November of 1967. 

Manson was again recorded in the summer of 1968, at the home studio of Brian Wilson by engineer Stephen Despar. 

Yet... I've never heard the name "Sound City Studios" mentioned in regards to Manson's music before.  

Possible solution:
Admittedly, my geography of California sucks.  Could it possibly be, that "Universal Studios" Los Angeles...later became known as "Sound City" Studios, Cabrito Rd, Van Nuys, CA? 
California geography buffs?  Anyone?

#4) On the official "Sound City Studios" website...there's a chronological list (by year)... of musicians who have recorded at "Sound City". 
The list is pretty extensive... and Manson is not on their list. 
More strange... is that the list begins in 1970. 
Manson would have been there before 1970, No? 

#5) I did find a few leads... which strongly suggest (see video below) that some tracks on Manson's famous "LIE" album, were overdubbed from recordings made at "Sound City".  
This was my best lead for confirming Manson's participation at "Sound City". 
Unfortunately... although the "LIE" album is for sale everywhere... finding specific information regarding where the tracks were recorded (or the recording engineer) is impossible to find. 
Anyone own this album?  Anyone care to check the recording information for us?

I'm not saying that Manson did not record at "Sound City". 
But... try as I might... I couldn't confirm his presence there either.  I found this fascinating... which made me dig deeper. Much-a-do about nothing really... but interesting none-the-less.
 
Here's a video clip which mentions Manson in regards to this Project:
video 
Here's Dave Grohl's widely circulated "Official Trailer", which doesn't mention Manson at all:
video
===============================================================
Shots of MattP's Vinyl "LIE" Album from 1987
 
According to this video:
---The "LIE" album was originally released on the “Awareness Records” Label.
(As of 1987... it was still on Awareness Records) 
This suggests to me... there probably isn't more information on the original pressings.
---Squeaky states that the album was NOT recorded by Melcher.
(We already knew that)
---She states that 2,000 copies were pressed.
Drum Roll Please:
---Squeaky is asked 3 times, “who recorded the album?”… once at 30 seconds… and twice VERY DIRECTLY at 1:55...
She doesn’t answer all three times. LOL  : (  
Such is life in Mansonland! 
(Video Courtesy of Backporch Tapes)

"Click" Below to view the "Sound City" website's list of musician's (who recorded there).  Manson is not mentioned.  The list begins at 1970.

Recordings By Year

Year ArtistAlbumProducer
2011Arctic MonkeysSuck It And SeeJames Ford, eng: James Brown
2011EverclearReturn to Santa MonicaNathaniel Kunkel/Art Alexakis
2011MastodonThe HunterMike Elizondo, eng: Adam Hawkins
2010Deathcab For CutieCodes and KeysChris Walla/Deathcab
2010Josh GrobanIlluminationsRick Rubin
2009WolfmotherCosmic EggAlan Moulder
2009Kid RockBorn FreeRick Rubin
2008Elvis CostelloMomo FukuElvis Costello/Jason Lader
2008Nine Inch NailsThe SlipTrent Reznor
2008MetallicaDeath MagneticRick Rubin
2007Mavis StaplesWe Will Never Turn BackRy Cooder
2005Ry CooderChavez RavineRy Cooder
2005Nine Inch NailsWith TeethTrent Reznor
2005WolfmotherWolfmotherDave Sardy
2005Queens of the Stone AgeLullabies to ParalyzeJoe Barresi
2004Bad ReligionEmpire Strikes FirstBrett Gurewitz
2003Matchbook RomanceWest For WishingBrett Gurewitz
2001SlipknotIowaRoss Robinson
2000Queens of the Stone AgeRated RChris Goss
2000A Perfect CircleMer De NomsMaynard James Keenan
1998Queens of the Stone AgeQueens of the Stone AgeJoe Barresi
1998Foo FightersGodzilla (SDTRK)Foo Fighters
1996TonicLemon ParadeJack Joseph Puig
1996WeezerPinkertonJoe Barresi
1996Johhny CashUnchainedRick Rubin
1996Carl PerkinsGo Cat GoVarious/Eddie Kramer
1996Tom Petty & the HeartbreakersShe’s the One (SDTRK)Tom Petty
1995KyusAnd the Circus Leaves TownChris Goss
1995Red Hot Chili PeppersOne Red Hot MinuteRick Rubin
1994The Black CrowesAmericaJack Joseph Puig
1994Tom PettyWild FlowersRick Rubin
1993Tom PettyGreatest Hits
1993RancidRancidBrett Gurewitz
1993ToolUndertowSylvia Massey
1992Green JellyCereal KillerSylvia Massey/ C.J Buscaglia
1992Rage Against the MachineRage Against the MachineGarth Richardson
1992Masters of RealitySunrise on the SufferbusChris Goss, Ginger Baker
1992Blind MelonBlind MelonRick Parashar/Blind Melon
1991NirvanaNevermindButch Vig
1988Fleetwood MacGreatest Hits
1985LoudnessThunder in the East
1985Tom PettySouthern AccentsTom Petty/Jimmy Iovine
1984Rick SpringfieldHard to HoldBill Drescher
1984RattOut of the CellarBeau Hill
1983Ronnie James DioHoly DiverRonnie James Dio
1982Rick SpringfieldLiving in OzBill Drescher
1982Barry ManilowHere Comes the NightBill Drescher
1982REO SpeedwagonGood TroubleKevin Beamish
1982Pat BenatarPrecious TimeKeith Olsen
1981SantanaZebopKeith Olsen
1981Tom PettyHard PromisesRick Rubin
1981Rick SpringfieldWorking Class DogKeith Olsen, Bill Drescher
1980Pat BenatarCrimes of PassionKeith Olsen
1979Tom PettyDamn the TorpedosJimmy Iovine
1978ForeignerDouble VisionKeith Olsen
1978Walter EaganNot ShyLindsay Buckingham, Richard Dashut
1978Cheap Trick Heaven TonightTom Werman
1977REO SpeedwagonYou Can Tune a Piano ButJohn Boylan
1977Fleetwood MacRumorsKen Caillat/ Richard Dashut
1977Grateful DeadTerrapin StationKeith Olsen
1975Nils LofgrenNils LofgrenDavid Briggs
1975WarWhy Can’t We Be FriendsJerry Goldstein
1975Fleetwood MacFleetwood MacKeith Olsen
1974Bill CosbyAt Last Bill Cosby Really SingsStu Gardner
1974Bachman Turner OverdriveNot FragileRandy Bachman
1974Elton JohnCaribouGus Dudgeon
1974Evel KnievelSnake River Canyon Jump
1973Buckingham NicksBuckingham NicksKeith Olsen
1972Dr. JohnDr. John’s GumboJerry Wexler
1970Neil YoungAfter the Gold RushNeil Young, David Briggs, Kendall Pacios
1970SpiritTwelve Dreams of Dr. SardonicusDavid Briggs


24 comments:

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

If anyone has Manson's famous "LIE" album... please check the fine print, and see if any tracks were recorded at "Sound City Studios" for us.

If so... I just learned something new (about Manson's music)... which is always cool.

Thanks!
Lynyrd

Panamint Patty said...

http://www.dailynews.com/ci_18966856?IADID=Search-www.dailynews.com-www.dailynews.com

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Patty.

As I said... there are a smattering of news articles in regards to this movie project, which mention Manson as a footnote.
Your link (and mine + video)... are but a few examples.

I'd like to know exactly what Manson songs were actually recorded at Studio City.. and if those songs actually ended-up on albums.

I'm pretty sure some "overdubs" from Sound City, were used on Manson's "LIE" album.
That's my best lead.
But alas...
I don't own the album, and the details for that album, are proving difficult to find.

I'll take another look later...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Something tells me, there's more history to this location, than the chart on the Sound City website... which begins in 1970... suggests.

The article Patty submitted, has a section titled: "Ghost from Big Band Era".
Wasn't the "Big Band Era" like 1940's or 50's?
Was the building open back then?
Why would they joke about a ghost from the big band era, if the building opened in 1970?
And again... wouldn't Manson have HAD to be there before 1970?

Am I missing something... or am I just thinking WAY too far into this??
Probably BOTH! LOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Time for lunch and a short road trip...

Peace...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

OK...
You're not going to believe this folks... LOLOL

I just dug through all my "Manson stuff"... and I DO have a copy of Manson's "LIE" album! : )

Alcohol... it's not for everyone. LOLOL

Anywho... "LIE" was right behind my "Family Jams" 2-CD set.

The Bad News:
There's absolutely NO information listed on there, regarding recording locations or engineers.

The front cover is the famous black and white photo.

The back cover is a basic track listing... with a foolish write-up about how Manson threatened everyone who ever recorded him with death.

The disc itself has the same photo of Manson (only).

There's an insert...
The insert (when opened) has a typed-up interview with Manson... and some of his scribbled handwriting and art on the back.

Zero...

HERE'S THE RUB THOUGH:
The copy I have is a CD.
It's copyrighted 1987 "Awareness records"... all over it.

This is obviously a second... or fourth... or tenth... issue.
Truth be told... it really looks like a cheap bootleg to me.
Who knows how many times this album has been sold and reproduced? ...and by whom?
I think I bought this off Amazon for like 5 bucks.

The original vinyl album was clearly released around 1970... NOT 1987.

I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts, that the original 1970-71 (limited run) vinyl pressings, would offer more information on their jacket.
Ya know... the vinyl copy that Squeaky cleans with spit and elbow grease in that video... while simultaneously shouldering a baby. LOL

Anyway... who knows...

I put out an APB with a few close Manson expert/collector friends.

We'll see what comes back... if anything...

PEACE...

mattprokes said...

it looks like the one lynnette is holding in the video has a paper cover.
probably an acetate or a promo copy but from what i can see from the grainy video looks like the back cover has the same layout as the vinyl i have which is also 1987
no recording info as to where or when.
chances are they printed very few in the original run of pressings.
probably quite the collectors item!

mattprokes said...

first pressing was 2000 copies of which only 300 were sold
wiki says it was recorded 9-11-67 with overdubs done on 8-9-68

mattprokes said...

my distrust of wiki led me to dig a little more.
9-11-67 was the date of the unplugged sessions which don't sound like lie to me soundwise.
charlie manson.com says that lie was recorded 11 months after the unplugged sessions which would put it in august of 68 but theres no mention of stephen despar anywhere on my copy so i doubt it was recorded at brian wilsons studio and i think those recordings at wilsons studio were destroyed before the trial
my copy says produced by phil 12258cal
phil kaufman im assuming.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thanks Matt.

Those original pressings must be worth major bucks among collectors!

I'd give my left arm, to know exactly what happened to that original copy, which Squeaky held in her hands that day.
I'd love to have it... saliva juice and all. LOL

Anywho...
Back to business...

I'm pretty sure the 9-11-1967 recordings referenced in Wiki are the Gary Stromberg recordings made at "Universal Studios".
They often reference that recording as anything from september to november of '67.
Sometimes they even just list "fall 1967".

BUT... the point here is this:

If Manson recorded in 1967 OR 1968 (doesn't matter which really) at "Sound City"... it still doesn't add up to what I just found on the front page of the "Sound City" website:

"Sound City Studios
Founded in 1969, Sound City is the birthplace of many of the greatest recordings in rock and roll history. In each decade of operation, from the late sixties until now, our vintage analog equipment has captured the sounds of some of the world’s most important and best-loved music.


Founded in 1969?

How the hell does Manson record in 1967 OR 1968, when the place is founded in '69??

Something doesn't add up.

Of course, we must remember that WIKI is not the foremost authority on anything...

So, back to square one.

Anyone got a vinyl "LIE" album from 1986 or earlier?? LOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Sanders has the unplugged sessions at November 12 (give or take a day) of 1967.

Eleven months after that, would put us at October of 1968.
That's pretty damn close to 1969.
Maybe they "founded" the place, just 2 months after Manson walked out the door? LOL

Gotta wonder what the hell the place was like, before it was "founded"?
AHahahaha
(The kind of place that would record Charles Manson evidently) LOL

katie8753 said...

>>>Lynyrd said: Squeaky is asked 3 times, “who recorded the album?”, once at 30 seconds… and twice VERY DIRECTLY at 1:55...
She doesn’t answer all three times. LOL : Such is life in Mansonland!>>>

Squeaky was very adept at not answering certain questions that she might later have to prove as accurate. I wonder who she learned that from??? HA HA.

She states that Melcher was "scared of us". When asked why, she says "I imagine so, if he believes everything he reads, like everybody else does".

Well, the facts are the facts. It doesn't matter what you read or who said it, the fact remains that certain members of the Manson Family killed Gary Hinman, Sharon Tate, Jay Sebring, Voytek Frykowski, Abigail Folger, Steven Parent, Rosemary & Leno Labianca and Shorty Shea.

It's not something anyone made up. Not even Bugliosi. It happened.

And you know the most puzzling thing for me is why people keep saying Charlie wasn't in charge.

Well....one question.

Who shaved his head and cut an "x" on his forehead and ALL the others followed suit?

Strangely, the only one in the inner circle who didn't was Tex.

I don't think that Tex was under Charlie's influence as much as he claims. He came and went as he pleased.

BUT....it was Charlie who said "go with Tex and do what Tex says".

Charlie was ALWAYS in charge of the others.....

I hope that Squeaky can make some semblance of what's left of her life. I don't think she ever even had a child. She just took care of other people's babies.

Sad.....

katie8753 said...

Some people like to say that Tex was in charge. Not in the least.

Tex was only in charge of himself.

Then why did he kill so viciously?

I personally think it was because when he went out on his own those times away from the family, he was scared that he couldn't make it. He needed the "family" influence and he didn't want his own bible-belt mother telling him what to do. It was easier to listen to Charlie.

Tex didn't mastermind the murders, he just went along with them because he felt that Charlie would be "pleased" with him.

Tex Watson should just stay right where he is until he dies. Because it doesn't matter how many times he says he's "saved", I don't believe him.

BTW, was Tex involved in the Family Jams??? I don't think he has a musical bone in his body.

lurch said...

The list of people who recorded at Sound City isn't complete by any means. They most likely just listed the best known/most successful bands/albums recorded there. Since Manson isn't exactly someone they'd be proud to be associated with he didn't make the list.

Any idea where the "Family Jams" tracks were done?

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I don't know Katie...

I get the impression from this video footage, that Squeaky honestly didn't know where the recordings were made (at that time).
I detect no intentional deception.

In fact...

I get the distinct impression that Squeaky hadn't even lisened to the music on the album, before this interview was conducted.
Case in point:
When asked about the contents (songs) contained therein... she looks baffled... and starts searching the album jacket herself for a track list.
She responds:
"You'll have to listen to it yourself".
What does that tell ya?

One gets the impression, that the album and microphone were thrust at her almost simultaneously... and she's just muddling through this interview, as best she can.

She also looks as though, she could be high on something.

I really don't think she was being deceptive intentionally on the recording location point.

On the "Melcher fear" thing... it's more likely.
Although...
She probably would have been more saavy to not say anything like that at all.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

It's actually never crossed my mind, that Tex hadn't shaved his head or carved the "X".
I just never really thought about it.
Too focused on the girls, I guess. : )

I wonder if there's any major significance to that?

In my mind...
That would imply, that Tex was operating more independently than the others.

Is Katie becoming a "Tex operated independently" theorist?

Wow...

LOLOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Lurch!

I have the "Family Jams" CD's downstairs.
I'll see if there's anything listed for ya (regarding the recording location), tomorrow.
I'm all "researched-out" for today! LOL

beauders said...

katie, tex committed the murders so brutally because it would impress the girls. he was jealous of the control manson had over the girls and wanted it for himself.

beauders said...

katie, tex committed the murders so brutally because it would impress the girls. he was jealous of the control manson had over the girls and wanted it for himself.

beauders said...

tex was at best a parttime manson family member.

bobby said...

I think with Tex in Texas at the time of the Xing's he was pretty well removed from the scene and had enough sense not to be Xing himself. Maybe he should have just to to appear under his spell.

katie8753 said...

>>>Beauders said: katie, tex committed the murders so brutally because it would impress the girls. he was jealous of the control manson had over the girls and wanted it for himself.>>>

Hi Beauders.

Really?? And how do you know this?

Was there an indication that Tex was jealous of Charlie? It seems to me that Tex was getting plenty of poon-tang so why would he be jealous of Charlie?

Would you think that maybe...Tex was doing what Charlie said....

According to Tex, this is what Charlie told him:

"Then he laid out how he wanted the murders themselves done. He apparently didn't know who was living in the house or how many people we might find, but whoever and however many it was we were to kill them all, mutilate them ("Pull out their eyes and hang them on the mirrors!"), and write messages on the walls in their blood. When he started listing what he wanted written-things like HELTER SKELTER and RISE-I told him I couldn't remember all that. But he said it was okay; the girls would know what to write. Just before he went off to get the women, he handed me the .22 Buntline pistol he'd been given by old Randy Starr, but he said to use knives whenever possible, not the gun."

Charlie ordered the murders. Tex did what he was told. "Mutilate them".

Doesn't sound to me like Tex was trying to "impress the girls".

beauders said...

watson admitted he wanted the same power over the girls that manson had. he also said he didn't know how runty manson got the devotion of the girls, but he wanted it. i believe he said in his book he was trying to impress the girls.

Kimchi said...

Another tidbit from Mr. Schreck's book -

He states that when Phil Kaufman was putting together the "Lie" album, he took recordings from the 1967 Stromberg session at Universal and added material from songs recorded at a Van Nuys recording studio on August 8, 1968.

Page 130 in the new book.

There were 3,000 pressings made, 1500 were stolen from his home (Kaufman) during a creepy crawl. Harold True helped finance the Lie album, but all in all, they never recouped the investment.