Sunday, November 27, 2011

I want to get one fucking thing straight for a few Fuck-Tards...
My blog doesn't "PROMOTE", "STUDY", or otherwise consider Ed Sanders' book... "THE DEFINITIVE WORD" ON ANYTHING TLB-RELATED.  If any Dickwads must know the history of my "Book Club", read below:

When my blog first opened, I asked my members to brainstorm ideas for threads.  I said "any, and all suggestions would be considered".  Mary (one of our regulars)... suggested that we do a "book discussion group".  I thought it was a good "interactive" idea.  Everyone agreed.  We set about the task of deciding which book to cover (first) as a group. 

I had recently bought Jess Bravin's book on Squeaky.  But, I figured (Squeaky alone) was too specific. 
I figured (to start) something more universal like "Helter Skelter", or "The Family" would simply cover MANY more topics... PISS-OFF MORE PEOPLE... and HENCE (MOTHERFUCKERS)... generate more discussion, and more posts.  That's how the book was chosen.  As a bonus... several members already had a copy of "The Family". 

I told the group, that we'd choose ANOTHER book after "The Family" was finished, and many proposed "The Rail-Roading of Charles Manson".  I'm game!  I don't PROMOTE Sanders book.  It's a vehicle to generate discussion.  If you wanna participate by saying that "Sanders sucks dick"... that's your business.  C'mon down. 
The "Book Club" is a vehicle to promote discussion... and a filler, when things are slow "news-wise" in TLB-Land.  Everyone GOT IT NOW?!


===================================================================
"Crucified - The Railroading Of Charles Manson" - Author, Michael White
Description: "This book spotlights the inequities of the Tate-LaBianca trial starring Charles Manson and Vincent Bugliosi. The conviction of Charles Manson was laden with lies, contradictions and manipulation of facts. Why was it so important to "railroad" Charles Manson? The answer is within these covers". 
Publication Date: 1999. 

87 comments:

Kimchi said...

I read "Railroading" - it "enlightened" me...

I passed it on to a dear friend...

I recommend it.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I think "Railroading" would generate a LOT of discussion... whether folks agree, or dis-agree... and again, that's fine.

Discussion, is the business we're in here.
That simple fact is lost on so many folks, who read WAY too much into everything.

If everyone agrees... and nothing new is ever presented... what really IS the point?

I may read "Railroading" and say "it's great"!
I may read it, and say "this thing sucks"!

Either way... doesn't matter.
This is a discussion group... and the books are a vehicle for discussion.

Folks REALLY need to grow the f#ck up.

Kimchi said...

It's been a few years, but what I remember is, a guy from Orange County, Ca wrote it...he bought a storage unit at auction, inside were some boxes or file cabinets (can't remember) anyway, they were Irving Kanarak's files.

A lot of personal things...and court documents.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

COOL!

Yeah... I heard that.

A guy bought a storage unit, and inside were Irving Kanarek's papers... and the guy wrote the book, based on those contents.

How WILD is that!!

Kimchi said...

It wasn't fiction, it was fact....fact as how you read into it however..

The author included photo copies of documents he spoke about...I have no reason to doubt the validity of the things he wrote about...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I'm looking forward to reading it.

I have no reason to doubt, what you're telling me.

I think it's cool, that all that stuff was found in a storage unit.

Cease2 said...

Lynyrd said ..."I honestly view this case, as a "backdrop" for discussion... nothing more, nothing less.
It's a common theme, which allows friends to come together and chat... have some laughs, and relax. To me... the blog is basically an online version of the "Elks Club". Come down... hang-out with friends... and chew the fat."


That's how I feel too, L/S. Nicely put.

And Katie... I guess everyone is laying low cos they just don't want to get drawn into yet another online fracas.

And some of us are time-zoned out of seeing it go down 'live' anyway, and just wake up to this stuff.

x & peace.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Jim and Katie... I deleted all your comments.

Watching you bicker back-and-forth was really old, three years ago.

Now... it doesn't even get a rise out of me, quite frankly.

Jim... find something else to do.

Katie... find something else to do.

St. Circumstance said...

I was and probably always will be interested in this entire time period. I read endlessly about the 60's, Manson, the Process, Laurel Canyon, Scientology- and anything else that covers this very unique and strange period of time...

I used to take the bait- but learned its useless...

Now I talk to those who talk back, and let those who come to these sites with other intentions- have at it with each other...

The good thing is between my 4 favorite spots- you can usually find at least one where there is good stuff going on...

NOBODY is an expert on any of this...

there were people who were in the Crimes themselves who dont know for sure why they happened...

So for ANYONE to act as the final authority is laughable in my opinion...

But it is very laughable when some of them try... I have to give them that

:)

St. Circumstance said...

I have to disagree respectfully with Jim ( if there is such a thing)

People DO still care...

at least I do

and Star is the last person on Earth I would ask what Charlie is really like...

She is a brainwashed, uneducated, little ignoramus who runs around parroting a man 3 times her age..

If you take anything a person like that says for more than a grain of salt- you are not really on my level- so how could we understand each other?

Knowing a person only from incarceration is very different from knowing someone who is free to show there true nature...

if Charlie had a chance- he would be drooling and fondling all over that poor young naive girl...

Her parents should be so proud of themselves for the job they did...

sigh

but yeah- lets ask Star to tell us what a man was like who made his bones and earned his dubious reputation....

before she was even born....

St. Circumstance said...

God I got my energy back over the last few days so let me beat the objections before they come...

For a long time I was willing to try and understand Star as an adult, and intelligent person who was making there own choices- but the more I hear her name and think about it...

it really sucks...

sucks parents would let her go off to live in the woods with a man who could be her grandpa...

sucks she could only find Charlie Manson in this life to have purpose

sucks that people enable this lifestyle when she was not much more than a child...

but mostly it sucks- that people who come to these sites will say its o.k....

Becuase it is not ok to let a child live a life like that-

it doesn't matter if they like it or not...

WE are supposed to be the adults- the protectors...

ATWA is for adults and people who are very serious about there causes

Let that girl be a kid for goodness sake...

she could have had plenty of time to spend her entire adult life worshiping Charlie...

IF when she got there it was still what she wanted to do???

but I suspect by letting her make that choice for herself at such a young age...

by the time she gets to that point -

she will no longer be thinking for herself...

and that sucks most of all

Mary said...

I guess I am not that familiar with Star's background. How old is she and how old was she when she got involved and moved to teh woods?

St. Circumstance said...

I have to go back and look at the exact age- I dont have my stuff available at the moment- but she was a teenager when she left home...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hello Saint.
Welcome Back!

Well... (Really Big Sigh, LOL)
I was hoping to put this recent visit from Jim behind us.
But, like ripples on water... things never seem to calm immediately after Jim's entrance (as most blog adminstrators would like). LOL

I don't want to get too (personally) judgmental with Star... having made some poor decisions as a youth myself.
But, I will agree... if she was my child, I wouldn't be thrilled with how, and where, she's spending her time.
'Nuff said...
C'mon... would any parent?

Luckily, she's still young... and (let's be frank)... Manson isn't going to live another 20 years.
Hopefully... this will just be a big "speed-bump" in her over-all life.
And Thank Goodness, as you suggested... Manson doesn't have "conjugal visits".
Although, who knows what's going-on with (roommate) Gray Wolf?
But, that's another story... (Shudder).
=======================================
The unfortunate thing, is that I have fond memories (albeit very distant now), of chatting with Jim.
Years ago, he could be quite entertaining, and he actually imparted great insight regarding the case.

Now... he never stays on-topic.
He's predominantly consumed with feuds, and only participates (if you wanna call it that), when he feels the need to insult someone.

Moreover... I have the problem of He and Katie, fighting like maniacs every time they contact each other.
There's no REAL communication between these two.
It's endless banter... endless.

If I AM successful at steering Jim back to conjeniality (and on-topic)... (which, I can sometimes)... Katie makes sure, she insults him until he's aggressive again.
It's completely futile.

I try to make it work... but, she just doesn't want him here PERIOD.
What do you do with THAT situation??? LOLOL

As much as I'd like to make Jim welcome here... it's becoming increasingly impossible.

I don't enjoy deleting comments, or excluding anyone.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Bottom Line:
I could make life bearable (here) with Jim included...

BUT...

Katie is essentially forcing me choose between Her and Jim... and well... I guess the outcome of THAT situation is obvious.

But, I digress into my own personal hell...

AHahahahaha

: )

St. Circumstance said...

She started by writing letters and talking on the phone..

so her parents saw it early- made no serious effort to nip it in the bud obviously-...

then watched her move to a strange place alone and take up with the " Cause" ...

Now maybe this is just me-

But, I was six two and 185 pounds in high school and played two varsity sports.... but that didnt matter lol-

My dad was still my absolute monarch until I was well into my twenties- I did what he said- or I went to work/class/parties with his foot in my ass....

And being responsible and making good choices became a method of survival as much as anything else...

but nobody ever hurt me
and I have had a seriously charmed life.... with the ability to do great things, and see awesome places. Never have to worry about food, or clothes, or bills... I get to have fun, and do what I want without hurting or relying on anyone else...

and I dont think it is a coincidence

I have said before- I coach basketball and soccer for teenagers, and kids 8 to 12...

it is so sad to see how some of them are raised- and how some people who are so unfit- have kids anyway...

they end up being someone else s problem...

Which is o.k. to you and me...

until one of them comes in the window one night....

St. Circumstance said...

LOL

I dont want to get him or anyone else started...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Sorry...

That's "congeniality"... NOT "conjeniality"... for those who cruise blogs, looking for spelling errors. LOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I'm guessing, "Star" has to be about 25 now?

That's just a complete guess.
I could be dead wrong.

At this point, chronologically she's an adult... I'm quite sure of that.
But, to folks "our" age... she's just a kid.
And yes... this didn't just start yesterday.

Opinions?

Cease2 said...

Personally, I'm surprised there aren't more Star's out there. A lot more.

Manson is a folk hero of sorts, a modern day Jesse James, Dillinger, Robin Hood et al. He can be your man-child-christ-satan if that floats your boat. Got charisma politicians would die for, and is really skilled with the rhetoric (even the scrambled logic fits with our chaotic times).

I believe the following would be wider if there was a common perception that CM's ATWA beliefs pre-dated the crimes but I, along with the many, see this as one of Charlie's post-crime attention-seeking crusades.

I suspect that most of the very few ATWA adherents out there are female, and are most likely drawn to both the environment/animals angle and Charlie's magnetic personality. Plus, of course, it makes your life a little more interesting, bathing in Manson's reflected glory.

So, there's always going to be at least one Star, I think. Perhaps there'll be many many more in the centuries to come. Charlie's as good a candidate for sinful-christ as David Koresh. ...It's possible.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Saint said:
>>>>"I have to disagree respectfully with Jim (if there is such a thing)
People DO still care...
at least I do".
<<<<

Personally Saint... in regards to this discussion on "public interest level":
I think it's ultimately a question of "degree".

I think the case is still very meaningful to some folks.
Some folks (like us) still study this case diligently, and regularly.
There's no denying that fact.
You're right.

But in my humble opinion... compared to society collectively... we comprise a very small group.

I think the "average person" on the street, doesn't care about these folks... or, this case (any longer)... other than, from a "historical standpoint".
It will always be part of our nation's history.
Well that... and the inherent "curious titillation".

Although (on the other hand)...
Books and movies related to this case, still sell.
So... one could make a healthy argument conversely.

At the end of the day...
It's not an issue of "black and white"... but, an issue of "degree of wide-spread interest".
And again... one could launch a pretty good argument, either way... given the sales figures alone.
I certainly recognize that fact.

I do think though (for the most part)... the "general audience" of these books and movies are seeking entertainment, and aren't really interested in questioning what the book or movie presents.

I think the "general market audience" accepts what they're presented (like viewing a horror film), and go home.
Hence... they aren't really studying the case in a true sense.
They're interested... but not, really interested.

Although, for those marketing movies and books... "interested enough" to spend money on their product... is certainly "interested enough".

The discussion is cyclical and subjective really... like a cat chasing it's tail.
So, as I write... I know I'm wasting my time.
But... that's never stopped me before. LOL

To continue anyway... LOL

I think we... (who are consumed with this stuff), assume the rest of the world is, as well.

But... my personal experiences (in real life)... have not proved that assumption true.

I have chatted about this stuff with "friends", "family", and "co-workers" (time-to-time)... and not only is their knowledge of this case severely limited (beyond the obvious media hype)... they honestly look at me, as if, I have three heads! LOL

Honestly Saint... how many folks in your day-to-day life, would really be open (or interested), in discussing this case with you "regularly"?

One could make a pretty strong argument either way I suppose, on this issue of "interest"... no doubt.
But, forced to take a side, in such a debate... I actually do think Jim's assessment is pretty accurate.
(All things being equal).

But...
(I suppose) I already made that opinion know ad-nauseam, in the original thread. LOLOL

Peace... Lynyrd

PS
I have no problem with your opinion Saint... just "chewing the fat", as it were.
It's an interesting question, either way.

I think the danger here, is getting OVERLY hung-up on this crap.
We're truly operating within a micro-cosm of society, here on these blogs.
Sometimes we ALL lose sight of that fact.

Sometimes...
I need only look out my window... located conveniently next to my computer... to remind myself of that fact. LOL

Mary said...

Not having children myself - it is very easy for me to say that my kid would not do "that"

When I was a kid, last one out of 6, my parents were older and tired and I went crazy and they had a hard time controlling me...not that they didn't try. But I do know how strict my parents were with my siblings, when they were still able to be active in both productive aspects and discipline. My siblings had a Beaver Cleaverish life...but some of them still did things that my parents hated and fought tooth and nail. But, when you are an adult, there is not much that one can do.

I agree that some parents suck...but in the end, we are all responsible for what we do. I knew right from wrong but chose wrong...now that I am older - I am a productive member of society and enjoy a blessed life. Although my parents were good parents - ultimately, I did what I wanted to do...may have felt guilty...but did it anyway.

If Star is 25, she knows the difference between right and wrong - unless she is legally insane - and is responsible for her own path in life.

As far as her being brainwashed...I am not sure how she is living or her background so that could be the case.

Mary said...

I also am not disagreeing with your opinion, Saint. Just chewing the fat - as Lynyrd stated previously

Mary said...

needed a break from all these numbers I have been staring at all day

St. Circumstance said...

I do agree that it not a large segment of Americana that is interested in this case-

just didn't agree with the blanket statement " Nobody Cares"

Its no big deal- maybe I am wrong??

But I see a decent amount of people posting fairly often on a decent amount of sites devoted to the case- and they still print new books and movies still get made..

so more than just one or two of us are out here is all I am thinking :)

but none of these things would be so if NOBODY cared - right????

We are all responsible for what we do Mary... and many of us over come shitty childhoods and some dont...

but Star was not 25 when she came up with the idea to drop out of life and devote herself to Charlie and ATWA- I believe ( again I am away and not home with my books) she was about 15 or 16 when it first crossed her mind...

and at that age- I do blame her parents as much as her for indulging her in such a path in life...

You just have to give a kid more guidance than that- dont you??

Set limits... say no...

I mean do anything you have to right???

at what age do we stop our children from doing stupid harmful things to themselves???

I do honestly believe there is an age when you become responsible for your own actions...

Maybe Star was already passed it...

Maybe

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

You're right Saint...

The word "NOBODY" is not accurate, in regards to the "interest level" for this case.

Figuratively maybe... but, certainly not literally.

This blog alone, has 83,000 Hits!
AHahahahaha

I can't argue with you there...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Personally...
I would do everything within my physical, mental, emotional, legal and financial power... to prevent my under-age daughter, from this lifestyle.

And after 18... I'd continue to do my best.

I agree with Saint, on that one.

Having said that...
I have no idea of Star's situation.
She may have no father, and her Mom could have serious physical ailments for all I know...

So... I can't judge, beyond that, without more facts...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Maybe I'm just losing my mind Saint...

But, didn't we already have this "interest-level" discussion with Leary six months ago?
Back when you thought he was Jim?

AHahahaha

I'm pretty sure we did.

De-Ja-Vu is a bitch... LOL

St. Circumstance said...

Methinks we have danced this dance

Mary said...

I agree with both of you - I would do everything in my power to get my child - under or over 18 - help and not allow them into the situation - which is easy under 18. But over 18, you legally do not have a leg to stand on.

I just think that people are too quick to make judgements when the facts are not clear. And I feel that parents are often just assumed to be inadequate - because, let's face it, most of the time they are.

And I also feel it is a copout to blame ones parents for ones actions. Didn't we all say that about Charlie? He claims he had a horrible upbringing...but does it excuse him for his wrongdoings.

We, meaning the human race, would be much better off if we were not blaming our parents for our mistakes, others for our actions, and stop remaining victims for our whole entire lives. We need to put our big boy pants on and face the facts - we and we alone are responsible for our actions and bad decisions.

Mary said...

anyway, just my opinion and my biggest pet peeve!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Cease2 said:
>>>>"Personally, I'm surprised there aren't more Star's out there. A lot more.

Manson is a folk hero of sorts, a modern day Jesse James, Dillinger, Robin Hood et al. He can be your man-child-christ-satan if that floats your boat. Got charisma politicians would die for, and is really skilled with the rhetoric (even the scrambled logic fits with our chaotic times)".
<<<<


Given society today... and our tremendous lack of good role-models and heroes for kids... it's true.
It's actually surprising "Star" IS the only one.

Yet... (I can personally attest) there ARE actually several more young ladies online, at other "social media sites" (including YouTube)... who actively "admire" Manson regularly.
Fortunately... for them (and probably us), it stays online (for the most part), and they don't actually move to California.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Saint said:
>>>>"Methinks we have danced this dance"<<<<

LOLOL
Expressed as only Saint could. : )

St. Circumstance said...

Mary I am not trying to hit on your biggest pet peaves...

I am not making excuses for Stars mistakes... As far as I know she hasn't done anything wrong :)

I am not laying anything she did at her parents feet..

I am just saying that to me it sucks that they didn't do more to guide there child in better more healthy direction...

but its not my business really, and Star hasn't committed any crimes- so I am totally not here trying to blame her parents in any way for anything bad that happened to anyone-

So no comparison to Charlie is appropriate for what I am saying :)

Charlie uses his childhood as an excuse for hurting others...

I am not saying Star did anything like what Charlie did.. I just dont personally approve of the way she has led her life, and think the adults around her could have prevented it...

I include Grey wolf and Charlie and any other adult on that side as well- but I wouldn't expect them to look out for Stars best interest...

But from the adults in her own family I would have expected more...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I hasten to add...

All of the young ladies online, seemingly "enamoured" with Manson and this phenomena... (on "social media sites")... are very intelligent, attractive, articulate and friendly.
I mean... by all accounts, they're nice kids.

It's quite an interesting phenomenon.
Evidently, to them... there's no danger, or harm in being a "follower" of all this.

As long as it stays online... maybe there isn't.
I don't know...

They're not freaks, or anything strange in any way... just regular kids, and most of them are quite charming.

Who knows...

Then again... we're also told the "original" Manson kids were (by most accounts) over-achievers, middle-class, and good kids.
We're told:
"It all started out very innocent", as well.

=======================================

Miss Spiritual Tramp... you must know some of these young ladies online...

I'm not revealing anything earth-shattering... that others haven't observed on Facebook and YouTube for themselves...

What are you thoughts?

Is this all just innocent fun?
Kids wanting to "belong to a group"?

Young online "Manson" followrs?
Young online "ATWA" followers?

What's your take?

...and what, in your opinion, is the allure?

CarolMR said...

"Personally...
I would do everything within my physical, mental, emotional, legal and financial power... to prevent my under-age daughter, from this lifestyle.

And after 18... I'd continue to do my best." - Lynyrd

But many parents, especially rich famous Hollywood parents, do just the opposite. For example, Angela Lansbury gave her written permission for her UNDERAGE daughter to hang out with the Manson Family (before the murders, as far as I know).

Proteus said...

Kimchi (or anyone else): It would be good if you could say a few words about the Railroading book if you have the energy and the inclination.

I'm having trouble locating a copy where I live.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Jim AND Proteus, in 24 hours??

Seriously... is there a full moon?

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Well...

In the words of my late father:

"There's never a dull moment".

Mary said...

all is good, Saint...just discussing - as with many subjects, I see your point.

St. Circumstance said...

:)

Always all good Mary- you are one of the good guys ( Gals)

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Proteus...

The book can be purchased here for $25.00 (US Money):

http://www.amazon.com/Crucified-Railroading-Charles-Manson-Michael/dp/B0056AFCCU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322525511&sr=8-1

Publication Date: 1999

Description:

"This book spotlights the inequities of the Tate-LaBianca trial starring Charles Manson and Vincent Bugliosi. The conviction of Charles Manson was laden with lies, contradictions and manipulation of facts. Why was it so important to "railroad" Charles Manson? The answer is within these covers".

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Jim, Proteus and Katie?

Seriously...
Am I a Freak Magnet?

bobby said...

Great discussions, and jim got it started. I remember when I responded to a perceived diss of the blog by jim. Seems long ago now.keep up the good dialog team.missed you all.

Bob.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Proteus...

I do have a copy of this book ("Railroading").

Unfortunately...
I can't expound on it's contents (beyond the general description)... as, I've yet to read it.

It's definitely "Pro-Manson" reading.
That's the one thing, I'm certain of...

It's roughly 95 pages total... so, a man of your extreme intellect, and lack of social life (LOL), should be able to plow through it, in two nights.

: )

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

((((((((((((((((((((((((BOB))))))))))))))))))))))))

GREAT TO SEE YOU BROTHER!

HAPPY BELATED THANKSGIVING!!!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Kimchi has read the "Railroading" book... and would be best equipped to do a review.

Whether she's willing, or interested, is up to her...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Bob...

You've gotta come around more often!

We miss your direct, and always dead-on commentary!

You'd get-along GREAT with Tom! LOL

Bob... Tom.
Tom... Bob.
AHahahaha

katie8753 said...

Hi Bobby. We've missed you too. Come around more often. :)

Hi Cease, Mary, Kimchi, St., Carol, errrr...Proteus, and of course, Lynyrd.

On the subject of Star, I don't see anything remarkable about her. In fact, she's probably no different that the girls who followed Charlie in the 60's. Lonely, unloved, in need of a dominant father figure, no self esteem, etc.

Unfortunately, there are plenty of those around that will glom on to Charlie. Inevitable.

katie8753 said...

On the subject of The Family book club:

As Lynyrd pointed out, Mary had a good idea in the beginning to start a book club. After much discussion, we decided to go with one of the books that most people had, hence people didn't have to spend money buying different books. We decided on The Family. We had even discussed doing different books afterward. The Railroading of Charles Manson was one of the books we had discussed for later review.

No one at any time indicated that this book was the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

I've even made comments from time to time that Mr. Sanders likes to embellish the truth. I take his reading with a grain of salt.

But then, you can say the same thing with any other book you read about this case. If you read case studies by a psychologist or other specialist, then it turns into simply an opinion.

katie8753 said...

So, bottom line is, there are several books to read on this subject. Some are very good...some suck.

But to chose one in particular to stand out as being mostly fiction isn't really fair.

I've read several books on this subject, and I hope to read many more. I hope that we can continue our discussion on The Family, then move onto another book. I think the Railroading book would be an excellent choice, even though I don't think Charlie was railroaded. But then, that's my opinion...and as the Col said...everyone has one. LOL.

St. Circumstance said...

:) Kstie

St. Circumstance said...

or Katie lol :)

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

As I said earlier:

"The Family" (or, ANY book for that matter) is simply a vehicle, to (hopefully) generate disscussion.

Discussion, is the business we're in here.
That simple fact is lost on so many folks, who read WAY too much into EVERYTHING.

"The Family" does hit a LOT of different topics... and hence, was a good "starter" choice.

I must say however...

"The Family" is (admittedly) taking WAY longer to cover, than I originally expected.
At 500+ pages... we might have to start summarizing bigger "chunks", if we're ever going to finish this f#cking thing. LOL
But... the information in this book, is very condensed... and it's hard to present in large chunks, without missing several topics.

"Railroading" should be MUCH more "user-friendly" in that regrad.
Weighing-in at just under 100 pages... we should be able to "knock it off" in two discussions.

Kimchi said...

LS said:
"Weighing-in at just under 100 pages... we should be able to "knock it off" in two discussions."

Ya think? I think it will create a lot of "boo's and hisses" here...

Just gotta remember there are two sides to every story..

And I may be too compassionate for my own good.

Maybe you guys should do Desert Shadows or something.

Devil's Dropout is another good one...'TJ eating out of baby's dirty diaper'..."Charlie always said you should experience everything" LOL...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Kimchi!

"Railroading" is a good choice.

A new perspective will be interesting, and healthy for everyone.

If folks disagree... or the book doesn't "go over" with most of us... nothing lost.

I'll have a "chat" with Katie, before we start.
AHahahaha

All kidding aside... I'm interested to see inside Kanarek's brain.
That guy was a trip!
Does it get deep into Kanarek?

I've always felt the "non-existent defense" is more misunderstood, than the constantly discussed prosecution.

Hey... and the beauty part:
If the book sucks... we'll be done with it quick! LOLOL

Although, I must say:
"TJ eating shit out of baby's diaper"... is quite an interesting selling point!
AHahahaha

We could almost get as much "mileage" out of that book, as the Harold True interview!
LOLOL

"Devil's Dropout" is #3!
AHahahaha

adam said...

When I've heard Star talk on youtube she mimics the exact way Sandy and Gypsy used to speak. It's a little spooky.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Miss Spiritual Tramp...

This is a Re-Post of earlier comments... to catch you up to speed... (since I see you're currently on another thread)...

I'd like your input.

From Earlier...


Given society today... and our tremendous lack of good role-models and heroes for kids... it's true.
It's actually surprising "Star" IS the only one.

Yet... (I can personally attest) there ARE actually several more young ladies online, at other "social media sites" (including YouTube)... who actively "admire" Manson regularly.
Fortunately... for them (and probably us), it stays online (for the most part), and they don't actually move to California.
==================================
I hasten to add...

All of the young ladies online, seemingly "enamoured" with Manson and this phenomena... (on "social media sites")... are very intelligent, attractive, articulate and friendly.
I mean... by all accounts, they're nice kids.

It's quite an interesting phenomenon.
Evidently, to them... there's no danger, or harm in being a "follower" of all this.

As long as it stays online... maybe there isn't.
I don't know...

They're not freaks, or anything strange in any way... just regular kids, and most of them are quite charming.

Who knows...

Then again... we're also told the "original" Manson kids were (by most accounts) over-achievers, middle-class, and good kids.
We're told:
"It all started out very innocent", as well.

=======================================

Miss Spiritual Tramp... you must know some of these young ladies online...

I'm not revealing anything earth-shattering... that others haven't observed on Facebook and YouTube for themselves...

What are you thoughts?

Is this all just innocent fun?
Kids wanting to "belong to a group"?

Young online "Manson" followrs?
Young online "ATWA" followers?

What's your take?

...and what, in your opinion, is the allure?

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Spiritual Tramp...
If you don't want to comment, that's cool.

I don't want to put you on the spot.

I just thought it would be interesting to hear from another female, approximately Star's age.

MrPoirot said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY1XYOK9s4c

Here is the wingy dingy Star spewing her diaphynous sophistry about the pure as the driven snow Charlie Manson. This chick is cute as hell but if Manson paints his butt white she expects you to believe he's an antelope.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Adam.

Adam said:
>>>>"When I've heard Star talk on youtube she mimics the exact way Sandy and Gypsy used to speak. It's a little spooky".<<<<

Talk about spooky...
Follow Poirot's link, and look at Susan Atkins in the fourth photo down (on the right), as you're watching it! LOL

The long brown hair parted in the middle... the whole nine yards...

She looks like a really nice kid, but you're right... it's still spooky.

As we know...
"Star" is not seeing the "original Charlie"... and likely under-estimates what he once was... or maybe, still is.

Ultimately... an (incarcerated for 40+ years)... "Old Santa Claus Charlie" behind bars, is not the same Charlie the kids in the 60's were dealing with...

As Circumstance said it best earlier:

"Knowing a person only from incarceration is very different from knowing someone who is free to show there true nature...
if Charlie had a chance- he would be drooling and fondling all over that poor young naive girl..."

Proteus said...

Thanks for the info. Rest assured I come in peace here.

Cease2 said...

Hi Katie! Heh heh. Heh heh is the new Ha Ha.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hello Proteus.

Proteus said:
>>>>"Thanks for the info. Rest assured I come in peace here".<<<<

Proteus...

This is a public blog, open to everyone.
I give everyone a "free pass" coming through the door... regardless of past history.

If you treat everyone respectfully, I assure you... you will receive the same treatment in return.
I have nothing to gain, by fighting with anyone.

Also, it should be noted:
We do a LOT of tongue-n-cheek joking here.
Take a good-natured joke as just that, and you should be fine.

Lastly:
I know Katie can be a complete pain-in-the-ass at times.
I have eyes and ears on my head.
BUT...
She's also my very close friend... and a huge (essential) contributor at this location.
She does a very good job... and she's much appreciated.
Quite frankly, she's well-loved by all here.
It's imperative that you treat her respectfully at this location (like everyone else), or you won't be welcome.

Having said all that...
Welcome Aboard!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

((((((((((CEASE2))))))))))

Cease2 said:
>>>>"Hi Katie! Heh heh. Heh heh is the new Ha Ha".<<<<

AHahahahaha
That was a good one...

Proteus said...

Lynyrd

On your blog I shall be polite to all, including Katie. In return I shall expect to be treated with politeness. That seems a fair deal.

katie8753 said...

Hi Cease!

>>>Hi Katie! Heh heh. Heh heh is the new Ha Ha.>>>

Well, heh heh is more like a nervous giggle. I like the gregarious, belly-holding HA HA HA. It's the way I laugh in real life. Like I said before...I love to laugh. HA HA!

katie8753 said...

Hi Mr. P., thanks for the link.

Lynyrd is right. Star does resemble a young Sadie. And you're right...she will parrot anything Charlie tells her. I guess she likes that sorta thing.

katie8753 said...

Proteus, we got off to a bad start. Let's just wipe the slate clean and start from here.

Welcome! :)

Mary said...

Welcome Proteus!

starship said...

I think Star may be the long lost daughter of William Garretson and Rosie Tate Polanski. Nut and tree so to speak.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Starship!
Great to see you as always!

I notice you said "NUT and tree", as opposed to the more common "apple and tree".

I concur! LOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

BTW Starship...

If you read this, and have a chance...

Bring your last comment from the video thread (below) forward.
Specifically, I'm referring to your comment regarding Manson returning to the scene.
By "forward", I mean "to this thread".

It's an interesting post...

I suspect many folks will miss it down there.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Immediately following Thanksgiving thursday...

The retail world coined the catch-phrase "black friday"... supposedly "the biggest retail day of the year".
Essentially, they created their own fictitious "shopping holiday".

In recent years, they've added "Cyber Monday"... "the biggest ONLINE retail day of the year".
That of course, followed "Thanksgiving thursday", and "Black Friday".

NOW...
They've expanded "Cyber Monday" to "Cyber Week"!

"Cyber WEEK"?
Really??

Question:

Has anyone else's e-mail inbox, been completely bombarded with online retailers pedaling their wares, for the last week?

"Sales, "Discounts", "final offers", "free shipping"...

It's complete madness.

These retailers will stop at nothing... even creating new holidays, to sell their shit.

Is anyone else (besides me), tired of this foolishness?

Isn't it enough for them, that Christmas, is just a few weeks away?

Evidently, I've gotta re-tool my e-mail inbox settings...

MrPoirot said...

I don't mind the shopping holidays. It's great for the compulsive shoppers.

I hated the way the media made it look like all the shoppers were pepper sprayed or robbed. It is as if the media thinks we need their permission to do as we please.

katie8753 said...

Hi Starship!

>>>I think Star may be the long lost daughter of William Garretson and Rosie Tate Polanski. Nut and tree so to speak.>>>

Wouldn't that be ironic? 40+ years after the murders, Charlie is still in control, so to speak. LOL.

katie8753 said...

Well if anyone is interested, Conrad Murray got 4 years in the LA jail.

MJ's family has asked for over $100 million in restitution. That hearing will be at a later date. That's a bit high, I think.

That guy reminds me of a voodoo priest. His expression never changes. LOL.

Proteus said...

slate wiped clean - tabula rasa - thanks

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I will say one thing Poirot...

If retail sales increase, it will likely bolster our struggling economy, at least temporarily.
Confident consumers, money "changing hands", and a healthy "holiday retail season" are generally positve signposts, in that regard.

That's one upbeat way to view all this aggressive (bordering on harrassment) marketing.

It seems years ago, when most "marketing" was done through "flyers", "mailers" and other physical mediums... there was a ceiling on it.
I mean... there was an expense to the retailer for advertising efforts, which (I suppose) limited those efforts, as such.

With modern day "cyber retailing", there's really no inherent cost to advertising.
They can literally flood cyberspace with TONS of marketing e-mails, at virtually no cost.

Anyway... the beat goes on.

I'm just thinking out loud. LOL

katie8753 said...

Or maybe people are out spending money they don't have because marketers make you think if you don't buy now, you'll miss out.

Mary said...

yeah, marketing blitz...but I do have to say that I loved that Target Crazy Lady commercial for Black Friday...I thought they were hilarious

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

LOL
Mary : )

Mary said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIEvvriLDdY&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=SPA0207EAC8270EAE1

I spent at least an hour watching all of these on youtube...I know...get a life

katie8753 said...

Mary those are so funny. LOL!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

OMG!! AHahahaha

I had never seen those commercials!

THAT IS HILARIOUS!

Maybe it's ME who needs to "get a life"... or, actually watch that big TV thingy, once in a while. LOL

I probably watch one hour of television tops in an entire month... literally.

The woman is actually working-out in preparation for the 2-day sale... priceless.

That's almost as funny, as some of the infamous "Super Bowl Commercials". LOL

Katie...
Do you take YOUR shopping that serious?
AHahahaha

katie8753 said...

I HATE Christmas shopping. I always go to a one-stop shop that has everything: clothing, shoes, jewelry, kitchen gadgets, video games, books and fruit baskets.

TARGET!!! HA HA HA.

starship said...

I believe Manson went back as well. There's just too much evidence pointing in the direction that the scene was tampered with. Manson himself has admitted as much.

Garretson is borderline retarded. Always has been. PK ran to the guesthouse, WG, freezes in the walk-in closet and observes her out the window, she doesn't see him so didn't go in...tells Tex no one is there. Tex thinks the kid in the car is the caretaker, so doesn't worry about it further, even though the dogs are barking..

The most plausible explanation for why WG lives and breathes to this day.