Monday, September 5, 2011

Starship Writes...
While browsing at the supermarket checkout, I saw this story:  http://www.globemagazine.com/story/714
Yeah, I know...The Globe...still...

It got me thinking...
Doris Day has outlived her son, Terry Melcher...who while not a household name from Hollywood, still must have made a fortune in later years, as he is one of the credited writers (along with John Phillips, Scott Mackenzie and Mike Love) of the Beach Boys' hit, KOKOMO, their only #1 hit without Brian Wislon's participation or assistance...
Yeah, I know...it's wikipedia, still I can't believe Melcher didn't make a huge pile of $$ on this...

So I wonder about poor old Doris Day.  I know Melcher's heirs may have benefitted from his estate but what's the deal with this if it is at all true?  Wouldn't it be great to have Doris Day in the public eye again...perhaps she'd get interviewed by Piers Morgan and he could ask her, "remind me: What was the deal with your son and Charles Manson?"

Has Doris ever made any public comments regarding the whole Manson thing?

-Starship

79 comments:

FrankM said...

Actually I think Terry is/was not technically her son - he was a son of Martin Melcher from a previous marriage - although I believe she 'adopted' him. Not quite sure how that worked though.

FrankM

Ladynoel said...

Terry was Doris' son by Al Jorden. Day married Martin Melcher who adopted Terry.

katie8753 said...

Hi Frank & Ladynoel!

Yes Terry was Doris' son who was adopted by Marty Melcher. Marrying Marty Melcher was the biggest mistake Doris ever made.

I read that Globe article (yes I buy that crap...HA HA), and it mentioned in the article that when Melcher died in 1968, it was discovered that he and his attorney had squandered millions, leaving her in debt. I believe she sued the attorney and got some of it back.

The article mentions that Doris was upset with Terry for dating Candace Bergen. It didn't say why. I've never read that before.

In Candace's book, she talks about when they were living at Cielo Drive that Terry would come home very late every night, as he was trying to sort out his mother's financial mess.

FrankM said...

Thanks for correcting me - I got the adoption bit right, but gave him the wrong father! I knew something wasn't quite right.

I'm a great fan of Doris Day -
here is one of my favourites from 1953.

I find it very hard to buy into her sleeping with CM, as some will have. I accept that she had stopped making movies by 1969, but she had been an A-lister as late as 1967 and had a certain class. The thought of her between the sheets with a scruffy runt like CM is as distasteful as it in unconvincing.

But this perhaps says more about me than DD.

FrankM

katie8753 said...

Frank, I don't buy that stuff about Doris & Charlie for a minute. She has more class in her little finger than most people do in their whole body!

I love watching the old Doris Day movies. In fact, I watched one yesterday on TCM...With Six You Get Eggroll. I loved watching the old Doris Day/Rock Hudson movies too.

katie8753 said...

According to Wiki, Terry died leaving a wife and son. I'm assuming they inherited his estate.

The song Kokomo went gold I believe, and I don't know how much money Terry made off it, but he was also executive producer of The Doris Day show, and co-owned an Inn in Carmel, California with his mother. If he was a good money manager, he probably left a sizeable estate.

Now whether or not his widow would share any of that with Doris, I don't know. I've read several times that widows don't like to share with mother-in-laws. For instance, Patrick Swayze's widow is supposedly threatening to kick Patrick's mother and brother out of the house that Patrick bought them. So....who knows??

bobby said...

I thought Doris Day did a day time talk show but google turned up a tv sitcom 68-73.

Da, I had her confused with Dinah Shore.

Copied from wiki:

Day's claim, in her autobiography Doris Day: Her Own Story (1975), that her husband Martin Melcher had signed her to do the TV series without her knowledge, a fact she only discovered when Melcher died of heart disease on April 20, 1968

katie8753 said...

Hi Bobby! I believe I read in the Globe article that Terry Melcher encouraged Doris to do the show after Marty's death, due to her shaky finances. She didn't want to get back into working again. I guess that was after Marty Melcher had already signed her to do it.

I wonder how Marty was able to sign her to do a show. Was he her agent?

I'm guessing some of the money she made from this series went to paying back some of her debt. What a shame.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Marty Melcher was actually Doris' third husband.
Doris was married to trombonist Al Jorden, saxophonist George Weidler... then Melcher.

And yes... Terry was born "Terry Jorden"... fathered by Al Jorden, and later adopted (and consequently re-named) by Marty Melcher.

From my June 29th thread:


"Melcher was born Terry Jorden in New York City to trombonist Al Jorden and his wife, singer/actress Doris Day. Day was only 17 years old, when she gave birth to Terry. Before Terry's birth, Day was planning to leave the abusive and violent Al Jorden. Jorden was outraged when he found out about her pregnancy, and demanded Day get an abortion. Doris refused, and in turn, Jorden physically abused Day throughout her entire pregnancy. Shortly after Terry's birth, Day filed for divorce, left Terry with her mother in Ohio, and went back to touring with big band leader Les Brown. After the divorce, Terry's father failed to visit his son on a regular basis, and had little presence in his life. Al Jorden would ultimately commit suicide years later.
Doris' career led her to Hollywood where she appeared on local radio shows. After marrying and divorcing her second husband, saxophonist George Weidler, Day met and married Martin Melcher. Martin would become Doris' manager and go on to produce many of her movies. Although Terry and Martin disliked each other intensely, Martin adopted Terry, giving the boy his surname. After Martin's death in 1968, it was discovered that he had mismanaged or embezzled $20 million of Doris Day's money".


Unfortunately, it seems Doris was not too good at selecting decent men. The first husband abused her... and the third stole all her money!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Bob!

I've only got a minute, but here's some information:

"Terry served as the executive producer on his mother's CBS series, The Doris Day Show.

In 1985, Terry co-produced the cable show, Doris Day's Best Friends.

He worked as the director and vice president of the Doris Day Animal Foundation".

katie8753 said...

Has Doris ever talked about Manson in public...ever??

Did she ever even meet Manson?

I'm sure Doris felt the same way the Folger family felt after the killers' identities were revealed. She probably had mixed feelings of revulsion & horror, along with worrying about scandal, being associated with this type of thing.

Check out the following on You Tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvtaOrrbI2g

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Bob said:
>>>>"Day's claim, in her autobiography Doris Day: Her Own Story (1975), that her husband Martin Melcher had signed her to do the TV series without her knowledge, a fact she only discovered when Melcher died of heart disease on April 20, 1968".<<<<

Yeah... that's true.
The story goes, that Terry put together his mother's show, in a whirl-wind 3 weeks (or something crazy like that)... due to contracts Marty had previously signed behind Doris' back... and financial disaster... due to Marty stealing all her money.

I wish I could back this with something more substantial... but, I gotta run!

Peace... Lynyrd

mattprokes said...

good lord
kokomo rears its ugly little head again!

katie8753 said...

Hi Matt.

If I remember correctly, you hate that song....right?? LOL.

CarolMR said...

Doris was interviewed a few years ago by Bill O'Reilly. It was a phone interview. Apparently, she didn't want to be seen. She sounded great, though. There was no mention of Manson, as I recall.

katie8753 said...

Hi Carol. I've never read that Doris has mentioned Manson in any interviews either.

As Starship said, it would be interesting if someone asked her specifically about Manson in an interview, would she reveal any information that we don't know, or just decline to comment?

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

MattP said:
>>>>"good lord
kokomo rears its ugly little head again!"<<<<

AHahahahaha

I know huh?! LOLOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Fast facts (LOL):

In 1988, Melcher earned a Golden Globe nomination for co-writing the song "Kokomo" with The Beach Boys. The song was featured in the 1988 Tom Cruise film, Cocktail, and rose to number one on the pop charts that year.
-----------------------------------
Beyond those basic (arguably boring) facts, regarding the song...

What's interesting to me, is this:

Roughly 20 years after-the-fact... Melcher and the Beach Boys were again (or still) traveling in the same circles.
These guys were again friends (or still friends).

It seems almost certain, that Melcher and Wilsom must have had private conversations regarding the whole "Manson ordeal" years ago.
I'd love to have been a "fly on the wall" for those conversations.

One also has to wonder, if "the subject" ever came-up in conversation, with the other Beach Boys in 1988.

Who knows...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I don't know of any footage/interview, where Doris ever spoke of Manson or anything related... or, was ever questioned on the subject.

Anyone?

I don't know how true it is... but, it's been said that Terry himself was so terrified... he was seeking psychological counseling, and employing a bodyguard.
It's also been said he took sedatives before testifying.

Can anyone confirm this stuff?

katie8753 said...

That's an interesting point Lynyrd. I wonder if the subject of Manson was one they discussed or one they avoided like the plague.

It's easy to sit here on these blogs and talk about things that happened to people 40+ years ago, but it's another thing to have actually been there, knowing Manson and his killers, having had them in your home, having been to Spahn's Ranch, and knowing how they savagely butchered the victims, wondering all the while if maybe "it could have been me".

I'm not sure if I would want to discuss it or just forget about it.

Didn't Dennis Wilson say “I know why Charles Manson did what he did. Someday, I’ll tell the world. I’ll write a book and explain why he did it.”

I wonder what he was talking about. He never got the chance to say.

katie8753 said...

Lynyrd, on the You Tube link I posted it talks about when the cops found out about the link between Manson & Melcher, they advised Terry & Doris Day to get protection or go into hiding. At that point in time, they really feared for their safety. A lot of the "family" was not in jail.

I believe Bugliosi says in his book that Melcher had to be sedated somewhat to testify. He was that scared of Charlie, and he had to sit in the same room with him and testify.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Mike Love... said something to the effect of:
"Manson was a dark footnote in the band's history".

So... "avoided like the plague", may be pretty accurate. LOL

bobby said...

Katie said: "Didn't Dennis Wilson say “I know why Charles Manson did what he did. Someday, I’ll tell the world. I’ll write a book and explain why he did it.”

I wonder what he was talking about. He never got the chance to say.

The key here is that he said he knew why he did it. He didnt say why he knew Charlie had no part in it !

Marliese said...

bobby said...>>>>>
Katie said: "Didn't Dennis Wilson say “I know why Charles Manson did what he did. Someday, I’ll tell the world. I’ll write a book and explain why he did it.”

I wonder what he was talking about. He never got the chance to say.

The key here is that he said he knew why he did it. He didnt say why he knew Charlie had no part in it !<<<<<<



Very good bobby!

Have heard that many times, and never picked up on that. Great point.

katie8753 said...

Hi Marliese! Good to see you!

Bobby, great point!!! He didn't say "Charlie was railroaded...Charlie is innocent...I know he wasn't involved...it was all Tex's idea...", etc. He just said "I know why Charlie did it."

I wonder just how close Charlie & Dennis were. I think that Dennis was the only one that was seriously interested in Charlie's music. I think everyone else was placating him. Charlie probably sensed this as some point. He could very well have confided his anger to Dennis.

katie8753 said...

Okay off subject for a sec.

All in the Family is on TV, and Archie was looking at his water bill and said "Look how much this is! Lucky me. I've got the only pollock that showers on a regular basis".

HA HA HA.

mattprokes said...

off topic: saw this on tv the other night
louis ck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQKASww9Ni4

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

MattP-

Is that serious, or staged?

It's gotta be staged... LOLOL

Well... either way... the girl's beautiful anyway... hahaha

katie8753 said...

Matt, thanks! That was funny.

"God probably hates people like you that try to tell other people what to do."

HA HA HA.

katie8753 said...

That girl looks a lot like Heather Graham!

mattprokes said...

its staged.from the show louie on fx.
saw it the other night on tv and found it on yt.
don't know why the image is reversed though
when they first show louie the caption under him reads
comedian/masturbator
its a hit and miss show but when its good its funny as hell.
its only shown late at night

katie8753 said...

Well, the low here is supposed to be only 56 degrees. Down from 83 degree low. I'll believe that when I see it.

The high tomorrow is supposed to be only 93 degrees.

Hoooo-waahhhh. I feel like I just died and went to Heaven.

HA HA HA.

mattprokes said...

did'nt dennis wilson say somewhere that manson was a criminal an asshole but not a killer?

FrankM said...

mattprokes said...

did'nt dennis wilson say somewhere that manson was a criminal an asshole but not a killer?

I read that too, but it doesn't necessarily mean he really said it, just that someone said he did.

And if he did say it, it doesn't mean he was right!

FrankM

mattprokes said...

yeah i can't even remember where i heard that.
just something you hear out there in mansonland i guess.

bobby said...

Interesting: I wonder which if either quote is true, Did he say Manson was no killer or did he say he knew why Manson killed. Can either statement be backed up by a true source ? I dont recall hearing him say on the ceaseto video.

katie8753 said...

I guess it's easy to say someone said something when they are no longer living and can't refute any of it.

These statements might just be like a long line of stories about this case that have floated around for years, some of which have validity and some of which are simply false.

I get the feeling that Dennis was a strange guy. He didn't mind that a bunch of losers moved in his house and trashed it, wrecked his car, or spent money on their dental problems and VD treatment. I've read (maybe another tall tale) that instead of telling them to get out, he moved out and had his manager give them the boot.

I really don't understand that relationship at all.

bobby said...

The Dennis Wilson Interview
Circus Magazine October 26, 1976
By Scott Cohen




Cohen: Did you write the lyrics to "Never Learn Not To Love"?

Wilson: Half.

Cohen: Did Manson write the other half ?

Wilson: Yeh.

v717 said...

''Charlie loved us to be beautiful
and he let us be beautiful
and he robbed us from our parents
and he gave us back to ourselves
and he wouldn't take us hanging on him
he wouldn't be our leader
he made us be strong inside ourselves
and be our own leader....''
Lynette Fromme
1971

katie8753 said...

>>>Bobby said: Cohen: Did you write the lyrics to "Never Learn Not To Love"?

Wilson: Half.

Cohen: Did Manson write the other half ?

Wilson: Yeh.>>>



Hmmmmm....I wonder how you write half a song...LOL.

katie8753 said...

Hi V717.

>>V717 said: ''Charlie loved us to be beautiful
and he let us be beautiful
and he robbed us from our parents
and he gave us back to ourselves
and he wouldn't take us hanging on him
he wouldn't be our leader
he made us be strong inside ourselves
and be our own leader....''
Lynette Fromme
1971>>>

Well I guess it was all her own idea to eat garbage after the dogs.

That's some great leadership ability. HA HA.

bobby said...

Katie said "Hmmmmm....I wonder how you write half a song...LOL."

The words that were changed from Charlies version. lol.

v717 said...

Hi Katie 8753
You said:I get the feeling that Dennis was a strange guy. He didn't mind that a bunch of losers moved in his house and trashed it, wrecked his car, or spent money on their dental problems and VD treatment.
"It´s easy to explain. It was fashionable in those days among the rich and famous to be together with a hobo. It was a more naive and Romantic era than what we are living in today. Today a guy like Manson would not have an earthly chans to come in contact with a celebrity."
About Red: Well I guess it was all her own idea to eat garbage after the dogs.
"As I have said before, They practised communal living and shared everything. How they did it; well I don´t think it´s up to us to criticize that. After all, it was their own choice. No one forced them to do anything they didn´t wan´t to do."

katie8753 said...

Hi V717!

Let's take what you said a little at a time. :)

>>>Hi Katie 8753
You said:I get the feeling that Dennis was a strange guy. He didn't mind that a bunch of losers moved in his house and trashed it, wrecked his car, or spent money on their dental problems and VD treatment.
"It´s easy to explain. It was fashionable in those days among the rich and famous to be together with a hobo. It was a more naive and Romantic era than what we are living in today. Today a guy like Manson would not have an earthly chans to come in contact with a celebrity.">>>

The latter part of your post is very true. Manson couldn't get next to a celeb even if he took a shower.

>>>About Red: Well I guess it was all her own idea to eat garbage after the dogs.
"As I have said before, They practised communal living and shared everything. How they did it; well I don´t think it´s up to us to criticize that.>>>

Well maybe it's not up to you to criticize it, but I think I'll have a shot. HA HA.

I for one, wouldn't debase myself to eating after (1) men or (2) dogs. And furthermore, I wouldn't go dive in a dumpster for food.

I would have gotten a job and been independent...but since I'm not brainwashed...I have other options.

>>>After all, it was their own choice. No one forced them to do anything they didn´t wan´t to do.">>>

This is the crux of what I'm talking about. I never used the word "force". I used the word "brainwash".

They are two distinctive actions. Both are verbs. Although strangely similar.

Force meaning physical coercion or violence to manipulate a person into a certain action.

Charlie displayed that many times against many of the family members. Maybe not against Lynette but against many others.

Brainwashing is a method for systematically changing attitudes or altering beliefs.

So, take your pick. He employed both.

Red was a victim, just like the rest. She was/never was in charge of her thought processes. Charlie was/still is. Period.

mattprokes said...

it must have been big fun to be a rock star in the sixties.
money,fast cars,fast chicks
stds

katie8753 said...

Well, I'm watching a movie by John Carpenter, the name of which doesn't matter, and I'm thinking that John Carpenter hit the jackpot with his movie "Halloween - the Night HE Came Home".

This was a sleeper movie. A sleeper movie is a movie that is very low budget to shoot, and has almost no advertising, because it's gonna miss anyway. Therefore, no one knows anything about it.

In October 1978, I was with friends and we were mulling around what to do, and I suggested "let's go see a movie". After much discussion I announced "here's a movie called Halloween". Lots of questions about it, no answers, nothing better to do...so off we go see it.

Suffice it to say, after the movie, we were walking back to our cars, and I discovered that my legs didn't work anymore, a condition known as "rubber band legs" from intense stress. I also decided that night that I would never be alone again, because HE might get me.

Lurking in the shadows, behind the bushes, looking in the window...."I shot him six times". Still HE is not dead.

Ahhhh....you have one big hit, and you think you're golden. John...give it a rest dear. You did have a great hit. But the rest is history. Even unto Halloween H20 - Twenty Years Later.

And then Rob Zombie took over. HA HA.

katie8753 said...

"He WAS the boogieman."

"As a matter of fact...he was."

Who is the boogieman?

Charles Manson.

v717 said...

Katie 8753
Force meaning physical coercion or violence to manipulate a person into a certain action.
Brainwashing is a method for systematically changing attitudes or altering beliefs.
"When Manson says "Law of man" that means in principle; not to break another persons will or to do anything to another person that is against his wish. Is that brainwashing?"
Manson´s concept of God is that man is his own God and the only one who can judge you is yourself.
Manson’s repeated claim that he “broke no law of man or God” is not without basis. For in the prison world in which he grew up and lived most of his life, people are responsible for their own deeds.
Manson:So all I did was I was honest with a bunch of kids.”

katie8753 said...

>>>V717 said: "When Manson says "Law of man" that means in principle; not to break another persons will or to do anything to another person that is against his wish. Is that brainwashing?">>>

I don't think Charlie subscribed to any laws. I think that he thought he was able to live by his own laws, and do whatever he pleased, thereby, not breaking any laws.


>>>Manson´s concept of God is that man is his own God and the only one who can judge you is yourself.>>>

If man is his own God, then why feel the need to judge? If there is no diety, there is no reason to judge.

>>>Manson’s repeated claim that he “broke no law of man or God” is not without basis. For in the prison world in which he grew up and lived most of his life, people are responsible for their own deeds.>>>

As I said earlier, Manson thought he was above any laws, man's or God's. And if man and God are the same thing, why distinguish and separate them??

>>>Manson:So all I did was I was honest with a bunch of kids.”>>>

Well, let's think about this one. Honesty to Charlie might mean a whole lot of other things to a sane or sensible person.

Charlie's honesty was according to Charlie. I find it hard to understand how having sex with underage children is being honest. Honest to whom? Honest to Charlie?? Certainly not honest to children.

v717 said...

What the so called “family” did in 1969 fell under the so called “the law of man”… everyone is responsible for their actions and their actions alone. Due to that there is no need in Manson’s own mind to feel any guilt what so ever in what his “family” later did – in pure actions that is.
Did Manson ACTUALLY feel sorry for the murders his “family” were responsible for? Yes. Why? Quoting, “How many people do you think you hang on the ventilators and nutwards and forced medications on?”… and so on from that to wars going on in that era of time. Not showing feelings (outwards) in the case of the killings his “family” did is probably a “trick” or a maybe even a revenge to excite people into becoming even more upset about him. “You people have done everything in the world to ME… doesn’t that give me equal right?”.
About Noel Emmens and his book about Manson. It was not Manson who owned Emmens a favour. It was Emmens who owned Manson a favour. Why? First. Look closely on the interview at San Quentin with both present. Look at the body languages. Manson almost hugs Emmens like saying with his body “You made this good, REALLY good, exactly the way I told you to do it… now we are even”. Second. “Manson in his own words” – “The most dangerous man alive”. What exactly does Manson do in the interview, how does he act? “I am incompetent… petty “whatever”… etc”. He SIMPLY ACTS (he even says it himself!) THE OPPOSITE. Third. Ask yourself… why would Manson, a long and life time prisoner convicted for conspiracy to murder, own anything to a short term prisoner (in jail for minor crimes) like Emmens? It is much more likely that Manson saved the newcomer Emmens from some situation – asked Emmens a favour for this – thanked Emmens in the interview many years later and so to say “finalized” his plan. And the plan? “A convict who was a failure”… “He is nothing special, no leader or Guru”… do you believe SOME people out there became outrageous and even more inspired to follow the man because someone who knew Manson close in person portrays the (for them) potential Christ reincarnated as a “LOOSER”?? And showing yourself as a small little creature has and always will work in many situations in life – to make someone else actually believe what you are showing them only to hide that you really do have the ace of spades in your back pocket.
About sex with an underage: Yes, just like Roman Polanski.

katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...

V717 you're wearing me out with this stuff.

Charlie not only brainwashed you, he hung you out on the line to dry.

Be careful pulling those clothespins off. HA HA.

It would REALLY behoove you to use paragraphs and punctuation. It's really hard to sift through millions of words without it.

It would be much easier to respond to you.

Are you copying and pasting stuff?

Please re-write in an easier to read fashion. I'm not criticizing your content, only because I can't understand it. It's too hard to sift through.

Just a simple admonition for future clarity.

This part I did understand:

>>>About sex with an underage: Yes, just like Roman Polanski.>>>


Yessirreeebob. THAT....I understood. LOL.

You hit the nail on the head with that one. Charlie and Roman were both disgusting pigs, targeting young girls to confuse and take advantage of to get their rocks off.

No doubt about that!!! LOL.

FrankM said...

What the so called “family” did in 1969 fell under the so called “the law of man”… everyone is responsible for their actions and their actions alone. Due to that there is no need in Manson’s own mind to feel any guilt what so ever in what his “family” later did – in pure actions that is.

More recent legislation in the western world has concentrated on the protection of young persons and vulnerable adults, who are deemed susceptible to the persuasion and corruptive potential of others who exercise a position of relative power or authority.

In many western countries and in order to protect their interests all those who work with people in these categories are required to be cleared by (inter)national criminal records bureaux.

It is worth remembering that some of the people at Spahn and Barker were technically minors, and I don't think it's hard to make the claim that not a few of them were 'vulnerable' in a number of ways.

Dangerous post for me to make here though, as I risk being labeled - not for the first time - as a bleeding heart liberal. Before you do that, however, note that I am not registering a personal opinion on this matter, nor commenting on anyone who does.

FrankM

katie8753 said...

Hi Frank!

>>>Frank said: It is worth remembering that some of the people at Spahn and Barker were technically minors, and I don't think it's hard to make the claim that not a few of them were 'vulnerable' in a number of ways.>>>

By saying "not a few" I'm assuming you mean "many".

I agree with you 100%. Most of these young kids were persuaded by Charlie (an older man) to think and act a certain way. Young impressionable kids are often vulnerable to older people, it's been that way probably since life began. The older kids are always "cool".

v717 said...

Hi! Katie 8753
It´s very simple. What I said was, Noel Emmens writes a book about Charles Manson. In that book he describes Manson as a looser, an incompetent fool and so on. But as a mattert of fact it´s Manson who want´s Emmens to depict him in that way. What could be the reason for that? Manson knows very well that he is fucked up. He will remain in jail for the rest of his life. What he is doing is simply sending a message to someone outside, a warning: Don´t do like me. See what happens. I´m just a looser. Don´t follow me.
And to Emmens he presumably has said: "If you depict me in this way you give the public what the public want´s and your book will sell great. You will earn a lots of money on that book.
So everybody is happy. Manson has succeeded getting his message out in the public and Emmens hopes to become rich and famous. Happy hour. That´s of course not the whole truth about Manson not even the half truth. But that is a totally different story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7gWz3tvPHg&feature=related

bobby said...

Frank, as a right wing conservative , who has made most every left wing mistake known to man kind( me ). I want you to know that I find you right on, as in you are a right on dude. thanks. Bob.

bobby said...

Matt said...
"it must have been big fun to be a rock star in the sixties.
money,fast cars,fast chicks
stds"

seriously Matt, I cant see me living very long under those circumstances.

God was kind enough to make me a small' avg. looking' poor' so as I could be a one woman family guy with no temptation oportunities.

of course i see myself as tall good looking & rich. Which is still ok because the rest of the world don"t. lol.

I'm like the anti St.C.

Whom I do truly admire.

katie8753 said...

Hi V717.

>>>V717 said: Noel Emmens writes a book about Charles Manson. In that book he describes Manson as a looser, an incompetent fool and so on.>>>

No he didn't.

That clip you mentioned is just Manson grandstanding again, as usual.

Me, me, me.

Just as in the link you provided, Charlie is still ranting about how the world is against him. That's his main chorus, ad infinitum. Second verse...same as the first.

"Maybe I should have killed 400 or 500 people...then I'd have felt better".

"If I wanted to kill somebody, I'd take this book and beat you to death with it...and I wouldn't feel a thing...it'd be just like walking to the drug store."

Manson, as usual, is using someone to further his own silly unintelligible diatribe, which unfortunately doesn't work on upper class, knowledgeable, higher IQ working class folk whose brains aren't altered or addled by drugs.

Nice try Charlie, but "batter out!".

katie8753 said...

Hi Bobby!!

>>>Bobby said: God was kind enough to make me a small' avg. looking' poor' so as I could be a one woman family guy with no temptation oportunities.>>>

Hey man, where do I find another one like you???? Seriously!!!

>>>of course i see myself as tall good looking & rich. Which is still ok because the rest of the world don"t. lol.>>>

Well let's see...Charles Manson wasn't tall...wasn't good looking....wasn't rich...wasn't nice...wasn't worthy...wasn't a good leader...wasn't faithful...wasn't lawful...wasn't clean...wasn't honest...wasn't a good father...wasn't employed...wasn't even worth a plug nickel.

That makes you the "bizzaro Charlie". The complete opposite of Charlie.

Which is a good thing! HA HA.

bobby said...

Katie, You are an absolute sweet heart. You have have been going back & forth with V717 for weeks & months. never once being rude. I know V717 is his or her own person & every right to have the opinion he/she has. But it's killing me because he/she seems to think that Charlie is a real guru, someone to learn life's meaning from. I just hope for V717 that the meaning you are getting is for the good & love of brother & sister.

katie8753 said...

Bobby I'm going to post your entire comment again, because I feel it's important.

>>>Bobby said: Katie, You are an absolute sweet heart. You have have been going back & forth with V717 for weeks & months. never once being rude.>>>

I'm not so sure if I was never rude. Sometimes my patience ran out, sometimes not! If I was rude, I apologize :)

>>>I know V717 is his or her own person & every right to have the opinion he/she has. But it's killing me because he/she seems to think that Charlie is a real guru, someone to learn life's meaning from. I just hope for V717 that the meaning you are getting is for the good & love of brother & sister.>>>

I feel an imperative need to rid these young people of their allegiance to Charles Manson.

I think that a new generation has emerged that wants to find a new leader, and unfortunately, they look downward towards Charlie. I'm not sure why that is.

I think maybe they look to the 60's and see the unrest, and think of him as some kind of foot soldier who "paved a new way" to some kind of "stellar awakening".

The reason I've kept on with V717, is that I care.

I care that he/she realize the importance of chasing after Charlie is like chasing after Hitler, or Jim Jones or David Koresh, or any other cult leader who has convinced his followers to die for him. A dead end.

And that is what Charlie did...he convinced his "children" to die for him.

If I can lead even one person away from Charles Manson, then I've finally done my job.

Charles Manson is a cruel, egotistical, neurotic man with virtually no self esteem, except what he can extract from followers.

Without followers..he is nothing...a dried up weed, a has been, a used-to-be, a never-was.

He desperately needs an audience. Without one, he's only performing a soliloquy to himself. Which does no good. It's only bouncing off the walls.

I hope that makes sense to everyone.

bobby said...

Bless you Katie !

katie8753 said...

You know what I think is sad Bobby.

That Charlie asked Pat to go on both nights.

He claims that Brenda Pitman was his main assassin.

Yet he asked Pat.

Pat, who was wooed by Charlie, I love you, blah, blah, blah, and Pat would have done anything for him.

Yet he asked Pat to kill for him, not Brenda.

Brenda is now free and to live to do anything she wants. Have a family, have grandchildren. She's not fit to live.

That's a travesty. Because if he had picked Brenda, then she would have been serving a life sentence, not Pat.

V717, ask Charlie about that!!!

v717 said...

Manson, as usual, is using someone to further his own silly unintelligible diatribe, which unfortunately doesn't work on upper class, knowledgeable, higher IQ working class folk whose brains aren't altered or addled by drugs.
Katie Dear! "That´s exactly what Manson want´s you to think about him. He has tricked you."
And so we have Bobby who is afraid that I have lost my soul to the Devil in form of an evil hippie guru by the name of Charles Manson. "I don´t think so Bobby!"
As I have said before. If Manson would be living in a primitive tribe somewhere in South America those people in that tribe would appreciate him for what he is, and he is a Shaman. He has access to knowledge that the western world long since has forgotten and forsaken. That knowledge was something that we humans all shared a long time ago, before we started buliding factories, cars and airplanes. Manson want´s to go back to that time. He is a super environmentalist. ATWA.

bobby said...

V717, I can see where you may have taken my comment to mean:

"Bobby who is afraid that I have lost my soul to the Devil in form of an evil hippie guru by the name of Charles Manson"

However, I am not afraid at all about that for you. Only that there are so many better options available to have for a role model.

I do apologize to you V717, because I have no business sticking my opinions into your business.

You have every right to believe Manson to be anything you want.

again, I'm sorry & I wont but in on you again.

v717 said...

Bobby Charles Manson is not my role model. I haven´t got any role models. I stand for myself and I think for myself.
You don´t have to apologize to me. You haven´t done me anything.
Peace brother.

katie8753 said...

Hi guys.

V717, Bobby and I aren't trying to change you into anything you don't want to be.

It appears (and correct me if I'm wrong) that you hold Manson up as some kind of all being-all knowing diety that got the shaft and should never have been imprisoned because he did nothing wrong.

My opinion is just the opposite. Charles Manson is just a seedy old con man rotting away in a prison cell, and who got what he deserved because he ordered murders.

But...that's why we blog on this subject I guess. If we all thought the same thing, we wouldn't be here. HA HA.

v717 said...

Katie 8753 and Bobby. Don´t want to be! "I am."
Charles Manson: "The man in the mirror." He is exactly what you see in yourself. He is just reflecting back to you your own wishes and expectations. He is everything you ever dreamed of or your worst nightmare.

Kimchi said...

Good thread -

Nice to see all thoughts on both sides...

Wish AC would comment here too...

katie8753 said...

>>>V717 said: Charles Manson: "The man in the mirror." He is exactly what you see in yourself. He is just reflecting back to you your own wishes and expectations. He is everything you ever dreamed of or your worst nightmare.>>>

When I look in the mirror I don't see Charles Manson. Far from that.

I see a person who cares about life. That's not the reflection of Charles Manson.

Charles Manson didn't care about anyone but himself. Never did...never will. Anything he ever says or does is to somehow further his own cause for his own self goals/self worth.

And he doesn't care about you, V717.

katie8753 said...

Hi Kimchi. Good to see you!!!

Kimchi said...

Hi Katie - Hi Bobby, Hi V17...

High LS...I know you're here somewhere...LOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hey Kimchi!!!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

V717...

I have to give you credit... I've never experienced a more persistent guy.

Despie any/all setbacks... (and the fact that your opinion is always in the minority)... you never give-up "the cause".

V717... I rarely agree with more than half your comments... but, I must admit, your persistence alone, is nothing short of impressive.

Thanks for all your contributions... and despite our differences in opinion, it's nice to have you around.
Your frequent posts are much appreciated...

Peace... Lynyrd

v717 said...

Katie 8753
The only thing Manson cares about is ATWA. ATWA is about life on earth. When time comes it will be as foretold: ATWA will rule the world.

katie8753 said...

V717, if ATWA is going to rule the world, they better get busy and take care of a few things.

I don't know about where you live, but here in Texas, the animals are all dying of thirst, the trees are burning down, the lakes are drying up and the wind, which fans the flames, feels like a 15,000,000 Watt hair dryer.

Doesn't sound like ATWA is getting anywhere close to ruling the world. Which, when you think about it, sounds ridiculous anyway.

v717 said...

Yes Katie, I agree. The clock is ticking fast.
http://www.poodwaddle.com/clocks/worldclock/

katie8753 said...

V717, that World Clock explains a lot about you. LOL.

Janson2112 said...

As I read and sift thru these postings I am struck by the same thought over and over. It seems there are some very intelligent people in this blog, and yet I do not understand how people who follow the manson case are so deaf.
CM in numerous interviews have eluded to many facts of the crimes and still more unpublished family crimes. The only reaason I can think of that some people don't get it is the fact of how he talks in riddles and circles to throw people off. You can hear charlie talk for 30 minutes about BS, and somewhere in there he will let you in on the inner secrets if you were really paying attention. my whole life I did not understand this until a recent phone conversation with a still active family member told me what to listen for, there is a tell, he says anytime CM is fixing to let a little secret piece of info out. CM is alot smarter and craftier than some give him credit for. Also lets put 1 issue to rest, Charlie is a bad person and deserves prison, BUT that does not excuse the BUG and his lies and making a mockery out of our justice system!