Thursday, May 5, 2011

Kathleen Maddox - Part 4 - Donated by Mary!  Thanks Mary!


























Click below for rest of article...

37 comments:

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

This is essentially, a more in-depth version, of the same interview, from Jan. 26, 1971.

This writer really gives you a vivid description, of Kathleen's condition.
She was a huge drinker and smoker, and physically (and likely mentally) a mess.

I think the best part of Kathleen's input was the following:
She said>>>>
"I think the business with Rosalie really hurt Charles. I think Rose was the only woman he ever really loved, and from then on, he never respected women. And it was during this time, she says, that she began to feel he needed psychiatric treatment, though it was far beyond their means".

This last part was kinda sad:
She said>>>>
"I don't know what to do now... just start worrying again, I guess".

St. Circumstance said...

When considering the way she lived her life, and the way Charlie turned out- I am reminded of something my father once told me while watching a retarded puppy chasing his mothers tail- while she chased his...

" when you plant corn- you get corn"

:)

Mary said...

LOL St. - never heard that before...but I will be using it. Thanks.

katie8753 said...

"When fear keeps her sitting up all night...."

What was she afraid of??? The trembling hands sound more like delirium tremens.

I have to say, she definitely seems extremely mentally unbalanced.

"when you plant corn- you get corn"

Aptly put Circumstance...you do indeed get corn!!! HA HA.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

"You reap, what you sow? LOLOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

"The apple doesn't fall far from the tree"? LOLOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

"A chip off the ol' retard"? LOL

ACFisherAldag said...

Charles actually remembers his mom fondly, says things like "She was a good ol' gal".

However, IMHO, she was neglectful and irresponsible. I see a lot of her tooting her own horn, here in this interview. In my experience, bad parents often justify themselves. Good parents are often ridden with self-doubt.

Mary said...

AC said - "In my experience, bad parents often justify themselves. Good parents are often ridden with self-doubt."

Yes, she was doing an awful lot of justifying and never really admitting to any mistakes - other than over pampering. Which makes me believe she is not being as truthful as she could be.

This article also leads me to believe that she was not at the trial - and definitely not the lady on the video in another post...that lady looked too put together and not as the writer describes in this article.

I don't think she would have risked being found out and mobbed by reporters at the trial. She made a huge point of not giving any information in order to identify her.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

AC said>>>>
"Charles actually remembers his mom fondly, says things like "She was a good ol' gal".<<<<

Thanks AC.
That's nice to hear.

AC said>>>>
"However, IMHO, she was neglectful and irresponsible. I see a lot of her tooting her own horn, here in this interview. In my experience, bad parents often justify themselves. Good parents are often ridden with self-doubt".<<<<

I agree.
It seems she intentionally left out, the "reality" portion of the story.
This is a bit too "candy-coated" for common sense purposes.

katie8753 said...

AC I have to agree with you. She doesn't come across as a very honest person. Too many holes in her story. She did seem to only defend herself, occasionally mentioning that Charlie needed "medical help". If she wanted to be so anonymous, why volunteer for an interview?

Although I don't think it's fair to blame her for all of Charlie's misdeeds.

Mary I'm inclined to agree with you that she wasn't at the trial. She doesn't mention going to the trial in this interview, and as you pointed out, the lady in the video seemed pretty put together and collected. Then suddenly she's a blithering mess right after the trial?

That doesn't make sense.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Mary said>>>>
"This article also leads me to believe that she was not at the trial - and definitely not the lady on the video in another post...that lady looked too put together and not as the writer describes in this article".<<<<

It doesn't appear from the article, she wanted any notoriey at all.
The article "suggests" this was her first interaction with the press.

If she did go to the trial... and that's a big "if", she obviously came and went, without being noticed... 'cuz, it's sure hard to find evidence she was there.
You'd think if she was there... evidence would be easy to find.

And I agree... the woman on the video, doesn't seem to fit the "broken down" description, of this reporter.
Unless, he's over-exaggerating dramatically, to sell a few extra newspapers.
Wouldn't be the first time I guess.
Although...
Judging from the fact that she died shortly after the interview... one would assume the description is every bit accurate.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Katie said>>>>
"She doesn't mention going to the trial in this interview".<<<<

Good point!
It doesn't seem likely, she would have missed the opportunity, to let everyone know, she was at the trial (supporting her son).

For a woman, who's obviously making every effort to cover her tracks... indicating she was at the trial, would have been a good selling point, that I doubt she would have passed-up.

katie8753 said...

It's funny how she keeps saying Charlie needs professional help, but never bothered to get him any that I can see.

The gist is...they couldn't afford it.

Well....wasn't she driving a Cadillac back in 1967? She could afford that. And that's before she got married again! I guess it depends on what's important in life.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Katie...

You said the footage of her being interviewed (probably this interview), was part of Bret's collection.

To my knowledge... even though Bret's site is gone... his video collection is still intact on YouTube.
At least the last time I checked it was...

I'll have to check that out.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hey...
A Caddy is a nice car. LOLOL

katie8753 said...

Yes Lynyrd I believe it was one of Bret's videos, but i just can't find it. I've used every search word I can think of. I hope you do find it.

>>>Hey...
A Caddy is a nice car. LOLOL>>>

Yeah buddy...that is a nice car!! Let's see....I can buy a caddy or get my son some help....hmmmmm.....I think I'll take the car!! HA HA

Lynn said...

I wonder if she got paid for these interviews? Does sound like she is trying to justify her behavior- asi mentioned people try to rewrite the past. Couldn;'t have been all great if he lived in a boys home. I wonder how Charlie's half sister turned out?

Lynn said...

Where are my manners? Thanks, Mary- great article!

katie8753 said...

Lynn I doubt if she got paid...but I don't really know. I'd like to know more about Charlie's sister too. Don't hear a thing about her.

Yes Mary...thanks!!

St. Circumstance said...

And the wind whispers....

Mary

:)

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

James Marshall Hendrix!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

All kidding aside:
This is a very tragic story, from beginning to end.

It's obvious, Kathleen had mental health issues, and self-medicated heavily (with alcohol)... real heavily.

In her defense... it was a totally different world for mental health patients in the 50's.
There was a HUGE stygma involved with admitting you were "crazy".
The treatment at "asylums" was marginal... and more accurately described, as very questionable.
People feared those places... and in many regards, rightfully so.

We now have many medications, that didn't exist back then... and seeking help is culturally accepted.
Admitting you were "insane" back then, was worse than coming out of the closet, as a homo-sexual.
You'd probably be better accepted as an alcoholic, with a prison record.
Now... I'd be much more critical of someone avoiding treatment.
Back then... it was a different world.
Heck... even being in a wheel chair 50 years ago, was cause for staring.

At any rate... what I'm trying to say, is that I feel bad for the woman (Kathleen).
Mental illness is no joke.
It's not to be laughed at.
Look at all our veterans who came home, with substance abuse problems, due to mental problems.
Many of them became homeless.
These are our heroes.

This whole case is tragic actually.
There are no winners here.

Seeing a woman drink herself to death by 55 years old.
Seeing folks being senselessly murdered.
Seeing others rotting in jail for a lifetime.
I take no pleasure in seeing a completely wasted life.
No winners here at all.

katie8753 said...

You know you're right Lynyrd.

Back then it was a complete family embarrassment to admit you had mental problems. And the treatments were barbaric.

If they couldn't figure out what was wrong with you, they did shock treatments, and if that didn't work, lobotomy and lock up forever.

St. Circumstance said...

Here here...

not many winners in the Manson family tree- either biological- or otherwise..

This lady lived a hard life during very hard times...

Sad no doubt- and maybe she didn't have great control of her faculties- so we shouldn't blame her for having children in such a bad situation...

But just like her son- this lady did some awfully wrong things- and I personally can only accept so many excuses for them..

St. Circumstance said...

Although- if she had undiagnosed serious mental illness...

then maybe that changes things...

more compassion and less finger- pointing

but I dont know?

Mary said...

some people are just trash...no mental illness needed.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

The always lovely Mary said>>>>
"some people are just trash...no mental illness needed".<<<<

Point Taken Mary.
There are folks, who are "their own worst enemy".

Some people are just plain bums... period.

I have no idea if Kathleen had legitimate issues she was incapable of over-coming, or if she was just a straight-out bum.
Without having known her personally... you're right, I'll never know for sure.
I like to give people the "benefit of the doubt"... but, you're right... I can only speculate.

I once dated a woman who had a substance abuse problem.
Try as I might to help her, all my efforts went for ZERO.
You just couldn't help this idiot.
If you were digging a hole... she'd be at the top, shoveling the dirt back onto you!

I asked my Dad (during that time), why some folks can over-come great adversity, and come out the other end fine... even prosper.
And why... other bums, you can't help them even if you want to.

He said:
"You can't keep a good man down... and you can't help a bad man up".

Truer words were never spoken.

Mary said...

Another one I like and will steal...

"You can't keep a good man down... and you can't help a bad man up".

Lynn said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Lynn.

I'm so sorry to hear of your loss.

My sincere sympathies.

I'm not sure what else to say... I'm really so bad with these things.

Take Care, Sincerely, Lynyrd.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

BTW Lynn...
You're not de-railing anything.
We're all friends here, and you can post whatever you want.

Hope you feel better soon.

katie8753 said...

Lynn I'm so sorry for your loss. the first night is the hardest.

Hang in there. It will get better.

Thinking of you....I've been there myself....I know it's not easy.

I've lost pets and I've thought I'd never get over it, but you do.

My thoughts are with you...

Love ya, Katie

MrPoirot said...

Charlie says he never killed anyone and the killings were not his fault. His mother says she didn't neglect Charlie. Yep, it fits.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Poirot said>>>>
"Charlie says he never killed anyone and the killings were not his fault. His mother says she didn't neglect Charlie. Yep, it fits".

Like mother, like son? LOLOL
She taught him well! : )

katie8753 said...

Mr.P, Keep on keepin' on.

And the circle won't be broken...

Tune in tomorrow...

LadyRam said...

Lynn..you are in my thoughts and prayers. I, too, have lost feline and canine members of my family and is so very hard. I pray that you celebrate the years of your sweet Erin's life with you,and try not to focus on the day she had to leave. God Bless....

Also,Lynn, thanks for the very interesting article. Lynyrd, Katie is right, that video where Kathleen is being interviewed was on Bret's site. I know I saw it there, but try as I might, I cannot pull it up. Guess we will all keep tryin' and maybe one of us will hit the jackpot! Peace out..........