Saturday, August 19, 2017

New information posted at Cielodrive.com - Friday, August 18, 2017

Judge to Rule on Tex Tapes

Judge Sam Ohta will issue a ruling on August 31st, whether to order the Los Angeles District Attorney’s Office to turn over copies of the Tex tapes to Leslie Van Houten’s attorney Richard Pfeiffer.

Ohta heard arguments from Pfeiffer and Deputy District Attorney Donna Lebowitz at a motion hearing today at the Clara Shortridge Foltz Criminal Justice Center. The motion hearing was a prelude to the Franklin hearing originally slotted for next week but delayed until the 31st to allow more time for discovery briefs to be filed.

Attorneys for Van Houten have sought the Tex tapes for nearly four years and argue that tapes contain information relevant to the Franklin hearing.

Some former Manson family members are also expected to testify at the hearing.

In January, Van Houten filed a Writ of Habeas Corpus pursuant to People v. Franklin, contending she was entitled an opportunity to create a record of mitigating evidence in support of youth offender parole. After a series of briefs from Pfeiffer and Lebowitz, Ohta ruled in Van Houten’s favor, granting her the hearing.

Van Houten is also scheduled to appear before the Board of Parole Hearings on September 6th.

*The above narrative is directly excerpted from Cielodrive.com

==============================================

The following document is not from Cielodrive.com










105 comments:

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

In my opinion, this is probably the biggest "TLB development" in recent years.

As you can see from the document, this struggle over the Tex Tapes has been a lengthy process, and the hearing is finally upon us.

The original hearing was scheduled for August 24th (at the Clara Shortridge Foltz Criminal Justice Center in Los Angeles), but has been rescheduled for August 31st.

If Pfeiffer can get his hands on those Tapes, this could be the biggest breakthrough (of new information), since the original trial(s).
At this point... a "could be" has my attention... and evidently, it has Pfeiffer's as well.

Pfeieffer certainly wouldn't pursue this situation legally, if he thought there was no chance at finding new information (on those tapes).

Personally, I think Leslie/Pfeiffer have a right to those tapes.
My opinion is outlined pretty accurately on page 4 of the document, under the heading "Sufficient Opportunity".

And again... we wait.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

"Some former Manson family members are also expected to testify at the hearing."
Jeez... this is getting good! LOL

AND...
Leslie's next parole hearing is scheduled for just 6 days after the Tex Tapes hearing!

Is this the "Solar Eclipse" they've been talking about all week?

OO-EE-OO...

Lmao!

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

What exactly do you think is on these tapes that could help her? From what what ive heard there might be some info on the murders of Stubbs, Tennerelli and possibly that CHP officer but dont see what that has to do with Leslie

Marliese said...

So good, Lynyrd...your thoughts, and seeing you.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

It's always a pleasure having you Marliese.

Bobby said...

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

"What exactly do you think is on these tapes that could help her? From what what ive heard there might be some info on the murders of Stubbs, Tennerelli and possibly that CHP officer but dont see what that has to do with Leslie"

Seems simple to me. It's all about LVH. The tapes reveal that Tex had LVH get a dress on Rose for the trip to the safe. Tex flipped out because the dress LVH picked out was certainly made by jews so, he picked another dress thus making LVH innocent as the dress picker. He later forced her to stab Rose 16 times to make up for the dress F-up so, again not really her fault. Later in the tapes Tex tells his lawyer how he had been setting CM up for the conspiracy charge with VB for years so that he could get royalties on the fabricated HS story & book. I'm certainly missing a lot but I'll leave it to the "adults" to figure out.

katie8753 said...

Bobby, LOL!

I don't know what's on these "Tex tapes", but it's just another reach for Leslie to finally get out. I can't imagine that there's anything on there more than what Tex told his psychiatrist, because he was a babbling idiot back then. Or pretended to be.

Leslie has tried every trick in the book to get out. And none have worked yet. She even married some dork that tried to break her out. Didn't work.

This lawyer that Leslie now has (I think she's been thru 10 or 15) is really working hard to get her out. She must have cast her usual "black magic spell" over him, like she's done in the past.

I don't know what she's got, but it's some powerful "mojo". LOL.

Anyway, I hope we can hear or read what's on those tapes. If nothing else, it will be something new in this case that's gone more stale than 14 week old bread!

katie8753 said...

This lawyer has to prove why Leslie went from "Homecoming Princess" to "salivating murderer" in about 3 years. He's trying to prove that Manson had complete control over her.

I think it was more than just Manson. I think it was the entire "family activities". They had drug orgies together, they stole together, they did creepy crawls together, they practiced killing people together. Leslie admits that she was "raring to go" on the second night of murder.

Will the "Tex tapes" reveal why?

katie8753 said...

And one more thing: Leslie was voluntarily participating in ALL these activities. No one had a gun to her head. She wanted to participate.

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

I agree completely on Leslie, Katie, in some ways she annoys me more than Susan or Pat did, she comes off as totally phony in her parole hearings and the airhead act os a ploy, these people all did exactly what they wanted to do, no "partner abuse", no "i was only 19", fuck all of them

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Doris knew it was more than just Manson and said so on many occasions, all of her venom was aimed at Tex and the girls

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Leslie and Bruces attorneys are holding out hope that theres something on those tapes that will help them but like you said it was more than likely Texs babbling and bragging abut himself more than anything, Tex did say to Bill when Bill told him when they first arrested Charlie that they were painting him out as a "cult leader", "Charlie?? No fuckin way!!" basically laughing off that idea completely

katie8753 said...

Leslie says that she "begged Charlie" with her eyes to go on the 2nd night of murder, but when she got there she didn't "really know what was going to happen".

What a bunch of CRAP! She sat and watched the news reels Saturday morning about the carnage at Cielo Drive. SHE KNEW ACTUALLY WHAT SHE WAS GETTING INTO!

She can't have it both ways!

As far as Bruce goes, he dug his own grave lying all the time at his parole hearings. He should have just told the truth from the very first day. But he didn't. Nor did any of the others, I might add, including Leslie.

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Agreed, let them die in there, i only wish Kasabian was with them

Marliese said...

Bobby, LOL! You're the best.

Katie, I agree with you about Leslie, and always have.

I've also heard Leslie...in numerous parole hearings, say the same thing...she wanted to go, she pleaded with her eyes, she wanted Charlie to know she was up for it etc etc. And have also heard her in a parole hearing...when asked how she could have done this, say that she believed "it had to be done."

I'll be very surprised if there is anything on the tapes that helps Leslie. I don't think she was important to Charlie, or to Tex. I actually don't think Charlie had much at all to do with her, and remember she surprisingly said, when interviewed about ten years or so into her life sentence...back when she seemed so confident she'd be out soon, that her experiences with Charlie, referring to sex with him, weren't anything like others always raved about. LOL. I don't think Charlie cared about her at all. Maybe she wasn't broken enough, needy enough, gritty enough. I don't know. She also said years ago that Charlie didn't connect much with her because he thought of her as "Bobby's girl." Like he cared about fidelity! Bobby had a lot of girls. Charlie just didn't like Leslie.

Leslie fought with Rosemary...terrorized her, she went through her closet, she flirted with a guy who gave her ride...after participating in those vicious murders. She had the benefit of three trials. She needs to stay in prison.

beauders said...

It appears that half the planet is in Oregon this week waiting for the eclipse. My niece who works at Nike says people are taking Monday off over concerns about traffic. My plans I think I'll sleep during the eclipse, I really don't care unless the sun doesn't come out from behind the moon, then I want be woken up. On the tapes I have always wondered if they show Manson really was not behind the murders that it was Tex's show. Probably not but wouldn't that be a dream come true for people interested in the case. We would all be able to study the case for the rest of our lives just on the new information.

Marliese said...

Beauders, you have encyclopedic knowledge of all things TLB. Do you lean toward Tex fought to keep the tapes hidden because he incriminated himself as the mastermind of TLB, or that there is talk of other murders, Tex minimizing the involvement of the girls on one hand while incriminating them in others, /or anything that supports LVH's attorney's claim that she was a youthful offender under the control of someone else? Tex fought to keep the tapes, and after obtaining them, the LA DA fought to keep the tapes from the press. So what is each side hiding, and/or protecting?

And do you think Susan stabbed Sharon, or just held her down? What do you think happened between Sharon and Susan when Tex wasn't in the living room? Was LVH involved in the clean up of Shorty's murder...burning his stuff etc? And one more...what's your opinion of the Tex took Rosemary somewhere before she was killed tale?

Mario George Nitrini 111 said...

Ms. Katie8753
And
Ms. beaurders

At the end of my text with both of you here, I have put up a blog post of mine. It's a situation with Fred & Kim Goldman pertaining to a NY Post article, and "WILL" have 2 major connections to The Charles Manson Saga if investigated thoroughly, and that will most likely go in several different directions.
There very well could be several different reasons why Charles "Tex" Watson does not want his audio tapes to go public, and it would lead into The OJ Simpson Case & Saga if enough investigating is done.

And Thank You Ms. Katie8753
and
Ms. beauders for always being respectful, courteous, and professional when responding to me.

Here's the Blog Post:

"Fred & Kim Goldman versus Malcom LaVergne & OJ Simpson

Fred & Kim Goldman versus
Malcom LaVergne & OJ Simpson
Plus "MORE".........

On my Twitter account here:
https://mobile.twitter.com/nitrini1950

On August 14th, 2017 at 8:28pm,
OJ Simpson's parole attorney
Malcolm LaVergne
(aka @SinCityAttorney)
responded to me on Twitter with this tweet:
https://mobile.twitter.com/SinCityAttorney/status/897298913937326080

My opinion, is that this tweet of Mr. LaVergne's ignited a short "Flame War" between Malcolm LaVergne and
Kim Goldman
(aka @KimEGoldman)
Follow it here:
https://mobile.twitter.com/KimEGoldman/status/897856209037828096

And it all stems from a NY Post article saying that 2 of OJ Simpson's children, Justin & Sydney Simpson, bought some property with cash. I tweeted about it here:
https://mobile.twitter.com/nitrini1950/status/897649611493474305

In the short "Flame War" between Malcolm LaVergne and Kim Goldman,
Mr. LaVergne had some VERY harsh words describing Fred & Kim Goldman.
Words like
"slaves"
&
"slaveowners"

Well, whatever a person thinks of
Malcolm LaVergne, negative or positive, he got the job done for OJ Simpson in helping Simpson getting parole.

In The NY Post article, from my understanding, is that Goldman attorney David Cook is investigating the matter of some Real Estate purchased by
Justin & Sydney Simpson.

So what if any or one of these acts:

"fraudulent conveyance"
"mail and wiretap,
"intent to defraud

can be legally proven.
Are Justin Simpson, Sydney Simpson,
OJ Simpson, and maybe other people,
Criminally Liable?

But on the other hand, what if
Justin & Sydney Simpson have done nothing illegal, could there be litigation of possible:

"harassment"
"libel"
"defamation"
against Fred & Kim Goldman?

Malcom LaVergne tweeted to me here:
https://mobile.twitter.com/SinCityAttorney/status/897290129064181760

that there is already litigation going on with The NY Post.

And let NO ONE who is in someway connected to
The OJ Simpson Case & Saga
forget about my Ex-in-Law:

ROCKY BATEMAN>>>>>>The "WIld Card"
in The OJ Simpson Case & Saga

Rocky Bateman was OJ Simpson's regular Limousine driver from approximately
August of 1993 to June of 1994.
Will Rocky Bateman be in some way connected to this situation + "MORE"?

Stay Tuned.......

Mario George Nitrini 111
-------
The OJ Simpson Case"
______________________________________

Thanks again Ms. Katie8753
and
Ms. beauders

Mario George Nitrini 111
-------
The OJ Simpson Case

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Just read the transcripts from her 2016 parole hearing and she flat out admitted she was chomping at the bit to go kill on the second night and felt a little jealous that Pat was asked to go the first night aand not her, said she felt that the killing was necessary and that she felt nothing at the time about it and also admitted wrapping the lamp cord around Rosemarys neck to secure the hood on her head and stabbed her in the lower torso, shes guilty and aint going anywhere

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Also said she knew "alot of young people" had been murdered the night before

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Beauders from following the case you know about Texs reaction after Boyd told him Manson had been arrested and was being set up and painted as "cult leader" and criminal mastermind, "Charlie??!! Ha, no fucking way!"My thoughts are the tapes are full of Tex bragging about being the leader and "big man" and controller of the group, its in his nature if his books are any indication of his personality, he seemed like a person with a need to be respected and admired

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Dilligaf:

If Pfeiffer gains custody of the tapes, do you think the contents will be made public at some point?

katie8753 said...

Mario, I'm not sure what you're asking. Can you post a link to a news article that explains what you're talking about? OJ's kids buying property??? Haven't heard about that.

I did watch OJ's parole hearing in NV and he made an ass out of himself but they still voted for parole. I think the lady leading that parole hearing was hesitant to let him out, but she voted for his release. He was given very strict guidelines on his parole so if he doesn't abide by them, he'll go back to the slammer.

I think his murder trial was a mockery of justice. The defense focused so much on racism because of Mark Fuhrman and also focused on that goofball Kato's testimony, who seemed like he liked acting goofy because he was getting some good laughs.

And then the "glove thingy". I don't know the whole thing was a circus. The defense did a good job of making fun of the investigation, the police force, and I think they used the race card to get him off.

katie8753 said...

Marliese said:

Leslie fought with Rosemary...terrorized her, she went through her closet, she flirted with a guy who gave her ride...after participating in those vicious murders. She had the benefit of three trials. She needs to stay in prison.

So true Marliese! Leslie thought she had it made in the shade when Ronald Hughes died and she got a new trial. She thought she had beaten the system when she was free again.

And I think I can guarantee most anyone that if Leslie had gotten a "get outta jail free card" she'd have found another "group" to hang out with, and most likely would have gotten in trouble again. I have my doubts that she would have embraced the teachings of her youth and ignored the teachings that led her to killing folks.

She has done nothing for years but try and think of another "loophole" to get her out of prison. She needs to stay right where she is.

katie8753 said...

Beauders, enjoy the eclipse if you see it. It will be so minimal here, it won't last 30 seconds. It will be like a cloud passed.

Susan, I have no idea what's on those tapes, but you could be right. It's Tex bragging about killing. But it could also be him lying his ass off about everything.

I think that Tex didn't want those tapes released because it's gonna prove that he's been lying all along in parole hearings.

Dilligaf said...

LSB,

Anything is possible, when, and if, they are allowed to be reviewed. I am hopeful that the court would review the tapes, and make the determination that there is nothing of value to LBH's claim, and that they not be used. However, this is California, and especially in LA, the bench is a bit more liberal than it usd to be, so anything is possible. This is really two issues: 1) whether Franklin does provide the relief that LVH is seeking? I do not believe that the legislative intent was to allow such a law to be used for cases such as LVH, that this is one of the often unintended consequences when legislation is passed on feel good mentality rather than actual need. 2) this is a classic fishing expedition, in which an inmate, and their attorney, will use anything to help their cause regardless of how it could impact anyone else.

Mario George Nitrini 111 said...

Ms. Katie

Here is the NY Post link:
https://www.google.com/amp/nypost.com

Or put in your google search engine:
Ny Post justin Goldman OJ Simpson

It's also here when I tweeted about it
https://mobile.twitter.com/nitrini1950/status/897649611493474305

OJ Simpson lied in his parole hearing.

Katie, there are many items and situations related to OJ Simpson's murder trial that have not gone mainstream yet.

There's a lot MORE to Kato Kaelin,
A LOT MORE.....

Mario George Nitrini 111
---------
The OJ Simpson Case

Mario George Nitrini 111 said...

Katie,

Try this link:

https://www.google.com/amp/nypost.com/2017/07/31/o-j-simpsons-children-went-on-a-real-estate-spending-spree/amp/

Mario George Nitrini 111
-------
The OJ Simpson Case

katie8753 said...

Thanks Mario! I'll look into that. It might be tomorrow before I have time, or maybe even the next day, but I'll get back with you.

OJ having the money to hire a "dream team" of lawyers surely didn't hurt him.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Dill! I have another question regarding California law that might pertain to the Manson cult.

I was watching a show about the Menendez Brothers today, and they said that there's a new law in CA that says if sexual abuse isn't mentioned in your murder trial, that you could possibly get a new trial.

I'm wondering if this would apply to Leslie & Pat. They could refer to the sexual orgies as "sexual abuse" to these women, certainly NOT to the men. LOL.

But do you think this new law might get these 2 a new trial? Can you imagine the wrinkled, stoic, crumbling Pat & Leslie sitting at the defendant table looking meek during a new trial, versus the singing, threats and cross cutting in their heads? Surely they would get it right this time.

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

My thing with Tex is after Bill Nelson uncovered his Medicaid fraud thing with his "wife" how does any parole board take him even remotely seriously at this point?

katie8753 said...

Tex will never get out. He's dreaming if he thinks he has a chance.

katie8753 said...

Huh? You already said that. LOL.

katie8753 said...

You know Susan, you might want to think about changing your name to something less offensive. Kinda like walking without moving your arms. Like you're carrying invisible suitcases.

katie8753 said...

Tex and his "wife" frauded us all with their monkey-like marriage. What a joke! That guy carrying out "services" makes me want to puke!

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Any man subjected to sex with Patricia Krenwinkel could be considered abuse or at least self imposed masochism lol

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

I cant imagine any "just " or "fair" system that would allow Tex Watson to be a preacher or reverend of any type, not after doing what he did then saying things like "that woman (Sharon) was crying out "mother help me" and i just kept plunging the knife in" and "it was fun tearing up that house, ok?" and also bragging to a fellow inmate about how "bad" he was compared to other inmates for killing a pregnant woman

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Hes not stupid he knows that, i was thinking the other day how crazy it is that Atkins is the only fairly major player to die in this whole thing while the Tate family has been virtually destroyed, Doris and Patti from cancer, Col Paul gone, people may find Debra kind of annoying but when you think of what shes been through its very very sad, from what i hear the Labianca family hasnt faired much better

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dilligaf said...

Karie,

Your scenario is not as far-fetched as one might believe. With the Menendez Killers, eh, Brothers, yes they can try to bring up claims of sexual abuse on appeal now, however, they have made these claims in the past, and they have fallen short. When Leslie
Abramson tried bring it up in trial, the DA's office very effectively countered their claims, pointing out to the jury that there was absolutely no corroboration to the claims, that if the father was such a monster why was the mother so brutally murdered, and if, the abuse had actually occurred, it would have been viewed as a mitigating factor at the time, yet the brothers chose to go on a spending spree instead. The murderers, eh, brothers were very well coached on how to perform during trial, and they did well. The law gives them another bite at the apple.

California government has bun controlled by one party for the past thirty years, and in their infinite stupidity, continue to try to either believe that everyone can be rehabilitated, or that the crimes were the fault of someone or something else. There are some in society that you just cannot save, or they do not need saving, they need punishment. Much like if you choose to keep a rattlesnake as a pet, one day you will be bitten, so do not be surprised. The California legislature keeps trying to place blame everywhere else and as such, are passing laws that are going to allow inmates to be released, and guess what? Some will strike like that snake.

The members of the Family are using every new claim and law to their benefit, and I get it. You or I would probably do the same. At some point, it is like the lottery, and one of them will win. As laws such as Prop. 47 & 57 get passed because of lies and the stupidity of voters, as well as AB 109, it truly becomes a race against the clock, will someone die behind bars before their release occurs. California is just giving them more chances. That is why the DP, though allowed to languish by the same legislators who talk out both sides of their mouth, is so important. When anyone tells you that LWOP is worse than the DP, and that it is sufficient, you have to understand that there are already challenges to actually keeping someone imprisoned for life in California. It just is not going to happen...

Dilligaf said...

Should have been Katie. Damned iPad......

katie8753 said...

Thanks Dill. I don't know if all that sexual abuse stuff is true in the Menendez case, there doesn't seem to be any evidence of it. But bottom line is, those boys were grown men and could have moved out of the house if it was so bad there, but that would mean being cut off from that nice source of money, moving out of a Beverly Hills mansion and getting jobs. And the only thing they knew how to do was go to school and play tennis, LOL.

I thought about Pat & Leslie when I heard about that new law. The TLB community knows that Pat & Leslie probably joined in the sex activities with great gusto. But they could always say now that they were pressured into it and call it abuse and blame all that on the murders.

It's amazing how many killers have tried to use sexual or mental abuse as an excuse for murder, and it seems to have started with the Mendendez case. The Blue Eyed Butcher, Casey Anthony & Jodi Arias to name a few of the more famous cases. The only time it worked was for Casey Anthony. Her father's "sexual abuse" turned her into a psychotic big fat LIAR! LOL. And in each of those cases, there was absolutely no proof of any of it.

Marliese said...

Hi Katie, mind if I ask which Menendez special you were watching? I'd like to see it if it's repeated or available on demand. The Law and Order series with Edie Falco as Leslie Abramson begins sometime in September.

Back in the day, I was as hooked on this case as anyone else, reading Dominic Dunne's thorough updates of the trial and all. As I recall,there wasn't the media frenzy as there was with OJ, still, there was a lot of coverage. I don't believe the abuse claims. Lyle and Erik were lying, cheating, plagiarizing, stealing, criminals from the time they were young teenagers...even had their own version of creepy crawling when they lived in Calabasas, They cheated in school, their father cheated to get one or the other of them accepted in school etc etc. From first hand reports, the father could be a tough sob in business, cheated on the mother etc etc etc, but I don't believe he molested those kids. I always remember a story from back in the days ofhe trial...Lyle sitting next to an elderly relative in the backseat of one of the funeral procession limos, and the elderly woman patting him on the shoulder saying something like you know, Lyle, it's up to you now to step up into your father's shoes...and Lyle laughed and said I already am...because he was wearing his father's expensive imported shoes to the funeral. What a son.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Marliese. I want to watch that Law & Order show. I saw the show about the Menendez Brothers on the Oxygen Channel. They have a series called "Snapped" and it's usually about people I never heard of but yesterday they had a 2 hour show about Natalie Holloway and another 2 hour show about the Menendez Brothers. Go to http://www.oxygen.com/ and you might can watch it online or see if they'll rebroadcast it.

I've watched many shows about this case and the only thing I think anyone ever proved was that the Dad was very hard on them, but there was no evidence of sexual abuse. When you listen to the 911 call that one of the boys made right after the murders, you can get a glimpse into their acting abilities. It's so dramatic and they're the ones who did it!

In the first trial the jury heard them talk in lurid detail about all the sex abuse they endured and watch them bawl their heads off so they had a hung jury, but the judge threw all that junk out in the 2nd trial, so they were just basically 2 kids who killed their parents.

I think they just wanted to be rid of their parents' control, but still have all the dough. The way they were spending money, they'd have been broke in a couple of years anyway.

Bobby said...

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...


Hes not stupid he knows that, i was thinking the other day how crazy it is that Atkins is the only fairly major player to die in this whole thing while the Tate family has been virtually destroyed, Doris and Patti from cancer, Col Paul gone, people may find Debra kind of annoying but when you think of what shes been through its very very sad, from what i hear the Labianca family hasnt faired much better

I know, when it comes to these terrible circumstances I can only got to the standard sayings, Only the good die young, God only deals what a person can take. With a few exceptions and reasons I can not understand I do believe them to be mostly trur.

katie8753 said...

Susan said:

Hes not stupid he knows that, i was thinking the other day how crazy it is that Atkins is the only fairly major player to die in this whole thing while the Tate family has been virtually destroyed, Doris and Patti from cancer, Col Paul gone, people may find Debra kind of annoying but when you think of what shes been through its very very sad, from what i hear the Labianca family hasnt faired much better

I've said many times before, the Manson family didn't just kill Sharon, they killed her whole family. I can't imagine what it would be like, as a mother, to know that my child was killed while crying out to me for safety. Reminds me of Adam Walsh's father who said he dreamed every night his boy was calling out for him to save him.

That kind of stuff you NEVER forget. We've seen how the Tate family has just gone, one by one. I'm sure the other families of these victims have suffered just as much.

Not to mention the families of the killers. They've all died one by one, just not even believing that their loved ones could turn so heartless and cruel.

These people should NEVER get out!

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

The Walsh case is so sad, i still remember the movie in the 80s, i remember his mom the day he was abducted from the Sears store she left the car in the parking lot with a blanket and his teddy bear in the back seat with a note to get in, lock the door and wait for mommy, can you imagine? God how horrible

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Toole was one bastard who should have suffered before he died

beauders said...

I think Tex has finally got it, that he is never getting out and he's trying to make his life as easy as he can. These tapes cannot help him, they will only cause him more distress. He is not a popular inmate and if these tapes say what I think they do which is Tex is bragging and trying to make himself look like a tough guy and a leader, the other inmates are going to be after him. Number one he brutally murdered a woman who was supposed to give birth in 14 days. If these tapes portray him as the one who planned it all, at least in the case of the Tate murders, then Tex not only murdered a very pregnant woman, he wasn't brainwashed by Manson if he is bragging, he is totally responsible. Furthermore if Manson has been serving time for something he had nothing to do with the other inmates are going to be mighty pissed at Tex. Remember Watson was bragging when he told his former girlfriend in Texas that he and another guy was in charge of the group and I think these tapes are more of the same. I don't think the tapes are going to be released though. Imagine what would happen to Bugliosi's legacy and the competence of the DA's office if these tapes point at Watson. It would be a scandal so large that DA's office would never recover. Manson would end up owning California. I am not a supporter of Manson though, in my book he would go to prison for life based on statuary rape charges and the physical abuse Danny DeCarlo's wife suffered as well Manson beating the girls, remember Dianne Lake was his punching bag and he beat Catherine Share for not being respectful of the music instruments. Katie, Catherine Share lives in Dallas, I wish you could find her and interview her. You're no nonsense and I think it would be fascinating for you to take a bull shitter like Share on. Besides the inmates Share is probably the most visible Family member in the last 25 years. Share has also written a book that she can't get published. Once Manson is dead, if he ever dies that is, she'll get published. I'll tell you the press is just going to go crazy when Manson dies. A dozen book will be published in the year following, people are going to come forward with new information, and documentaries will be playing on all the cable channels. Then after six to eight months it will all die down and Mansonmania will cease to exist, this time for good.

beauders said...

I think that Atkins most likely held Tate down and I do believe she gave the "Look bitch..." speech to Tate. Atkins was nuts and as much of a braggard as Watson. Do you all know that Rocky Bateman O.J.'s limo driver is the son of one of Krenwinkel's parole attorney's. Bumbling Bill Nelson found that out. No conspiracy though just a weird coincidence. It was the attorney she had around the 25th. anniversary, which is also when I got interested in the case after watching the Turning Point show with Dianne Sawyer. I wish the outtakes of that program were available, Sawyer would only take so much shit from Manson and I would like to see that.

beauders said...

Katie, Toole suffered he died of AIDS not liver failure like is reported. He was scum though and should have suffered more.

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

He told cops he drove around with Adams head in his car for a few days, he deserved to be tortured before dying

katie8753 said...

Beauders, you're a font of information. Thanks for sharing all this stuff! I agree, Tex is just a stupid braggart who will just embarrass himself and put himself in danger if these tapes get out. Who knows? I guess if they're released, we'll soon find out!

So Gypsy lives in Dallas? WTF? Why would anyone want to live in Dallas? It's HOT in the summer and COLD in the winter. The worst of both worlds. A concrete jungle. Maybe because of Ivan? Last I saw, she got bit by the "born again" bug. Not disputing the "reality" of it, just sayin'.

I wonder if she still plays cello.

I hope you enjoyed the eclipse in Oregon. That was AWESOME. I saw it on TV today. We didn't have one here, just a dip in the sunshine for a few seconds. But in 2024 we're supposed to have another one that we can see in Texas.

I'm sure you saw Mario's comments. You probably understand it a lot more than I do. I'll look into it when I get a chance.

Okay I'm heading to the bunkhouse. Looking forward to finally reading your book some day!

Night y'all!

katie8753 said...

Toole should have been drawn and quartered. But that's not politically correct. Grrr.....

beauders said...

I may be liberal in most concerns but I am very pro Death Penalty and would support more crimes being available for death such as any hands-on sex abuse of small children, maybe 14 and under---so both Manson and Polanski would be in trouble. I've read too much and thus know the horrific damage done to child's body when raped. And as you all know I'd put Bittaker in his grave if I could only get to him.

beauders said...

Also there is a person writing terrible books claiming Dahmer killed Adam Walsh. As far as I know Dahmer was interested in teenage and adult males not little boys. I guess anything is possible but I wish I hadn't wasted my money on this dudes books. By the way I think Dahmer was insane both medically and legally and should have been put in an medical institution in a prison or a mental hospital. I don't feel that about most serial killers. He committed suicide when he asked to be put on the mainline. And just something to think about do any of you feel that it is wrong that John Walsh has made a career and millions of dollars because his son was murdered by a monster? Of course Walsh would probably give it all back to have his kid back, but still...

beauders said...

I meant infant not child about what happens to infants body when it is raped.

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

That rumor started because apparently Dahmer lived in the Miami area in 81 when Adam disappeared, i remember reading something about him driving a white van at the time and working for some bakery or restaurant but Toole just knew too many details of the murder, only problem with Toole and his crazy buddy Henry Lee Lucas is they confessed to alot of things they didnt do for whatever reason but im pretty sure investigators knew Toole was the killer

beauders said...

Henry Lee Lucas confessed to delivering the cyanide to Jim Jones, in Guyana, which I know for a fact is not true, I've seen a copy of the shipping invoice. I know of one person who would not vote for George Bush Jr. because he felt Bush was soft on crime when he took Lucas off Death Row. If anyone deserved to die, it was Lucas. At least Toole died on Death Row in a horrible prison in Florida suffering (and with no air conditioning).

Mario George Nitrini 111 said...

Hello beauders.

Is there any documentation about
Rocky Bateman's father being Patricia Krenwinkel's parole attorney. It sure would confirm and corroborate some situation's for me with some intertwining of
The OJ Simpson Case & Saga
and
The Charles Manson Case & Saga.
And that will go in several different directions

I saw on YouTube that in 1993, Patricia Krenwinkel did have a parole hearing in 1993. The timing is right.

Thanks beaurders.

Mario George Nitrini 111
------
The OJ Simpson Case

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

That Raiford/Starke area in north Florida is absolutely miserable in summer and that prison is old and nasty, thats where Bundy sat for almost 10 years before they dragged him crying to the electric chair, they dont fuck around in Florida

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Ted was being the self serving scumbag he always was up to the last week offering to point out dump sites and Gov. Bob Martinez refused the stay of execution and coldly said we dont negotiate with child killers, if he wants to confess to more hes got 6 days to do it", i love it lol

katie8753 said...

Yeah Susan that was awesome. Ted was crying on his "last supper" when they fried his sorry ass, and he tried so hard to delay that by telling "where all the bodies were buried", but it didn't do him any good.

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

I became a huge fan of Martinez when i saw the clip of him talking about it in a press conference, "Bundys rendezvous with the the electic chair will happen as scheduled at 7am on Tuesday" lol

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...
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Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

When he got to Tallahasse in Jan 78 after escaping from Colorado he was like a crazed animal after being locked up for awhile and had been drinking heavily down there, the sorority girls were one thing but it was his kidnapping, rape and murder of the 12 year old girl Kim Leach that bought him his date with the chair

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...

I don't know how he killed all those girls in that dorm room without anyone hearing him, but he hit one girl on the side of the head so hard that her brains flew out her other ear.

That poor little 12 year old girl was just trying to go to the bathroom outside her barracks and he grabbed her up and drug her to his car and she was screaming that wasn't her Daddy, and people noticed but didn't stop him. What he did to that little girl was BARBARIC!

katie8753 said...

This was back in the 70's, and I hope that we've learned by now, that if you see a man dragging a little girl to his car, and she's screaming "you're not my daddy", that we stop him and ask him questions about why he's doing that.

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

He wrapped a cloth around the club to muffle the blows, he chewed one girls nipple off, bit one on the butt, was only in the house MAYBE 10 minutes, it was 3amwhich may have had something to do with it, he had been hunting all night first at a local bar/club Sherrods then walked around campus aimlessly and the came by Chi Omega and entered through an unlocked back door and basically went from room to room then fled and broke in another girls place down the street and bludgeoned her so bad she lost her hearing partially and lost a budding career as a ballet dancer, then came Leach a few weeks later after bumming around north Florida using stolen credit cards, he spotted her going from one building to another to get her purse that shed forgotten and kidnapped and brutally killed her and dumped her in Suwanee River State Park, alot of people think she was the only pre teen range girl but he killed another one age 13 in Idaho, Lynette Culver, i dont think theyll ever figure out how many it really was

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Bundys case always amazed me because these were college girls who would have been missed right away, Ridgeway the GreenbRiver Killer killed prostitutes who if they go missing no one will raise much fuss because most are estranged from family and into drugs and partying, these types of things wont happen again because of modern technology, cell phones, social media, cameras everywhere, GPS tracking, modern investigation techniques etc

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

I remember Ridgeway told police "i killed so many women that i just forgot where i put alot of them" think about the gravity of that, he was convicted of 48 but just imagine how many it really was

katie8753 said...

I think he used a firelog to beat those girls in the dorm. And Leach was leaving her barracks to go to the main building to use the bathroom.

I remember that because when my boys were in a barracks, I was so scared for them to go to the main building at odd times. I told them make sure a teacher watches you get into the building.

katie8753 said...

There was one girl who saw him run out of that dorm room and she said he looked "furious". Also, those teeth marks were used against him at the trial.

katie8753 said...

Also, there were witnesses who saw him driving with Leach down the highway and he looked like a "mad man" and she was screaming.

That's horrible. Psychiatrists who examined him said:

He was betrayed by his mother when he found out she was his mother not his sister
His first girlfriend left him because she thought he had no future
He was introduced to pornography at a very young
age
He became addicted to hardcore, violent pornography
Once he became addicted, he had to find more violent, more graphic pornography
to fuel his addiction
His addiction grew as the years went on and at some point, the hardcore, violent pornography he was watching was not satisfying the addiction
At some point, these fantasies became a reality and to get his 'fix' to satisfy his addiction, he needed to actually perform the acts
He was classified as a High Factor 1 Psychopath, which means he was intelligent and had very few signs of psychopathy early in his life
Factor 1 psychopathy is characterized by a grandiose sense of self, pathological lying, conning-manipulative behaviors, lack of remorse, lack of empathy and failure to accept responsibility
Psychopathy is the label name for antisocial personality disorder
People with this disorder live only in the present and behave as if social regulations do not apply to them

And that's all I have to say about psychiatrists. They don't know nothing. LOL

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

The porn thing was a last minute cop out to Dr. James Dobson who basically handled him with kud gloves and never really challenged him on whst he was saying, Dobson obviously had an agenda and Ted was all too happy to feed it, the thing about his girlfriend was true but remember it wasnt only that she felt Ted didnt have a great future but i think she saw alot of his really bad traits, stealing and chronis shoplifting, peeping into windows, she actually wanted to marry him but he was the one with cold feet, i believe Ted was just a born evil sociopath, hes been heavily suspected in the disappearance and murder of 8 year old Anne Marie Burr in 1961 when Ted was 14, Ted lived a couple blocks away from her in Tacoma and basically snatched right out of her house during the night, one of Teds aunts recalled an incident when she was babysitting him when he was 3, she took a nap and woke to find that little Ted had taken a bunch of knives from the kitchen and placed them around her body while she slept, hes also long been suspected in the beatings of two stewardesses who lived near a grocery store where he worked as a teenager

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

He also told either Bob Keppel or the Florida investigators about the killings "the act itself was a downer, it was all about the chase", with his law backround he was shrewd enough to always talk about the killings in the third person "this person would then fo this", "well i can only speculate as to how this person would do it but IF i was doing it....", the Pensacola detectives who first interviewed him upon his last arrest fucked up alot, they had 3 or 4 guys questioning him at once, they spoke too much, wouldnt just let Ted keep talking when he was on the verge of giving them info, didnt realize the tape recorder had malfunctioned and failed to tape alot of incriminating statements, etc

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Yeah the investigators on the scene said it was the most brutal atrach theyve ever seen, as if a crazed animal had gone through there, Ted was also pretty drunk thus lowering his inhibitions, i really believe the alcohol played a HUGE part that night

katie8753 said...

Well they said that Ted was "fixated" on the girlfriend that he "loved" that dumped him and she had long dark hair parted in the middle, and all the girls he killed looked like her.

Just sayin'! HA HA

Susan you obviously know a LOT more about this case than I do.

All I know is that Ted played like a cripple for many young girls to help him get something into his broken down VW bug, and he lured them in and took them and killed them.

Such a CREEPY GUY!

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

I think he just had dome isduesxwith respect for women obviously due to his mothers weird yhing about telling him she was really his dister for a long time but alot of women had that really pretty straight long hair parted down the middle look (im partial to it myself) lol, the feigned handicapped arm was a ploy he used at Lake Sammammish in the summer of 74 when he killed Janice Ott and Denise Naslund, that was a REALLY ballsy one because he took one to Issaquh and held her hostage while he went back to the Lake and got the other one and then killed them together if memory serves, if you ever want to watch a great movie on it Mark Harmon did a magnificent job portraying him in Deliberate Stranger, if you remember back then Mark was the big Hollywood heartthrob so alot of people were surprised to see him pkay him but he did an incredible job

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Sorry about all the typos lol, sad thing is im totally sober so i have no excuse haha

katie8753 said...

Yeah Mark Harmon was Ricky Nelson's brother-in-law. And didn't Charlie have the same problem with a mother telling him his mother was really his sister?

Ah, it all runs together now. LOL.

Night y'all!

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...
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Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Lol yeah i think i might have read that although i think Charlie and Ted are two completely different personalities

beauders said...

It was Rocky Bateman's mother who was Krenwinkel's attorney and yes it was 1993 parole hearing. My mother lives in West Linn a suburb of Portland and Bundy got a girl there, she went for a walk and never came back. I believe it was 1974. They know he killed her but without a body...There was kind of a serial killing twin for Ridgway in Vancouver B.C. named Robert Pickton, a pig farmer, he killed over 40 prostitutes but wasn't caught because the police knew women were disappearing but no bodies were discovered...yes you guessed it he fed them to the pigs and then slaughtered the pigs and sold the meat to local meat markets. So if you ate bacon/pork in Vancouver in the 90's and the early millennial years then it's possible you ate one Pickton's pigs. For some reason the northwest has a lot of serial killers from Portland's, lust killer Jerome Brudos to Bundy and Ridgway in Seattle, and Vancouver's Pickton to the lesser knowns like Keith Jesperson, Randall Woodfield, Harvey Carigan, Israel Keyes, Dayton Leroy Rogers, etc.

beauders said...

Krenwinkel's attorney in 1993 is Wendy Putnam Park and she is Rocky Bateman's mother. I don't think there's a conspiracy just an odd coincidence.

Mario George Nitrini 111 said...

Thanks Ms. beauders

Now I know who you're talking about.
Wendy Putnam Park is Allan Park's mother.
Allan Park is the fill-in limousine driver who drove OJ Simpson to the airport on June 12th, 1994. Rocky Bateman was supposed to drive OJ Simpson that night, but didn't,
(incredible situation with that. I've blogged about it years ago).
The conspiracy lies with the limousine company.

And let me tell you this beauders, there is a people "Connection" with
Rocky Bateman
and The Charles Manson Case & Saga.
Big-Time.......

Mario George Nitrini 111
------
The OJ Simpson Case

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Wow id never heard about the pig guy, thats pretty crazy

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

The west linn girl sounds like rita jolly, they found out about her when Bundy was giving his last minute admissions, didnt they link her to another guy though?

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Just checked it out, actually he was suspected since it happened in 73 but he never actually confessed to it, shes still considered an unsolved case officially

beauders said...

Jolly looks like the kind of victim Bundy like. Mario I got the limo drivers mixed up, what is the connection between the OJ and Manson cases? Sounds like you're an expert on Terrible Ted SusanAtkinsgonorhhea.

beauders said...

I looked up Jolly and found out even though he murdered Hawkins she has never been found. Was it her mother that was on the news so devastated that I don't think she could go on living without her child? I didn't see anyone else linked to Jolly, I would say Bundy was the culprit, even though there are psycho's everywhere...

Mario George Nitrini 111 said...

Ms. beauders,

No problem at all.
With so much information in both cases, no one can get everything exactly right. I will say this:
I never knew that Wendy Putnam Park was Patricia Krenwinkel's parole attorney. And that for me, opens-up another avenue of the 2 cases intertwining.......
Thank you beauders for that information.
The people connections with
The OJ Simpson Case & Saga and
The Charles Manson Case & Saga is growing........not sure how I want to legally handle it at this time.

Mario George Nitrini 111
-------
The OJ Simpson Case

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

The girl with the distraught mom was Denise Naslund one of the girls he grabbed at Lake Sammamish that day, yeah im pretty sure hes the culprit with Jolly as well which if solved would have made her his first "official" killing as far as law enforcement is concerned, Lynda Healy was January of 74 and is thought to be his first official killing

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Theres actually quite a few girls whos remains were never found but are officially attributed to him, as you might have read he de capitated quite a few or put their remains in very rough terrains where they would be torn apart and spread around by animals, Taylor Mountain was a big dump spot for him, if im remembering correctly the upset mom is the mom of Denise Naslund, i remember the scene from the movie Deliberate Stranger where the detectives had to go tell her that they found her daughters remains, Hawkins was a crazy case, he got her in a busy alley on the UW campus on a fairly busy night, lured her with the crutches and briefcase ploy, hit her with a tire iron and brought her to Taylor Mountain, im sure the wildlife up there got to her body and scattered it but no one heard a peep when she got abducted which is strange because Bundy said it was a loud thump and he remembered it being a pretty busy warm night on campus, the confession is on tape and its really weird because hes almost whispering to investigators almost like he thinks saying it out loud would implicate him more, he was a frustrating case for detectives because he was pre law at Univ of Utah and understood interrogation techniques and up until the last minute never directly implicated himself and always spoke about things in a third person type of way

beauders said...

Yes, Mrs. Nausland, I felt very bad for her. I lost a brother to natural causes 20 years ago and my mother never recovered. Having your child tortured and murdered must be a million times worse. My mother now has Alzheimer's and the only positive with that is she's not grieving anymore. She actually saw a picture of my brother and asked me who he was.

beauders said...

Wasn't there a missing child from his neighborhood when Bundy was a teenager? I bet he got her too.

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Yeah Anne Marie Burr, she was 8 and Bundy was 14 and lived a couple blocks away in Tacoma, im pretty sure he denied that one but there was really no other explanation, Bundy would talk alot about the girls who were adults but the teens and pre teens he didnt like to talk about because he was worried about his "image", like killing adults made him less of a scumbag

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Wow im really sorry to hear that, ive had a couple of suicides in my family and its brutal

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Kinda odd how Teds Chi Omega sorority attack kind of mirrored the Cielo Drive murders, investigators say Ted completed the attack in 15 minutes and was done within earshot of 30 people and no one heard anything

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...
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beauders said...

Suicide sucks I'm sorry. I lost a friend to suicide, I couldn't do anything for her. She had adult children and grandchildren so if they couldn't make her want to live no one could. Of course she was bipolar and could not afford medication.

Mario George Nitrini 111 said...

Ms. beauders

A Pandora's Box, so to speak, may be legally coming with the intertwining of:

The OJ Simpson Case & Saga
And
The Charles Manson Case & Saga.

Some background of me:

I "FELL" into a people Connection related to The Charles Manson Case & Saga in 1981, after my personal Encounter with Charles Manson in January of 1969.

I "RAN" with Rocky Bateman for a few years starting in the early 1990's. Rocky Bateman talks ALOT......

There's NO WAY from conversations that I with Bateman, that he could have known some specific items related to The Charles Manson Case & Saga, unless SOMEONE told him. It had to have been someone, in someway, connected to The Limousine Company in The OJ Simpson Case:
Town and Country Limousine Service, owned by Dale St. John.
Also in The OJ Simpson Case, in my telephone calls and conversations with OJ Simpson Case investigator
Bill Pavelic (OJ Simpson's side),
Mr. Pavelic "tipped" me off to another person connected to Town and Country Limousine Service, that goes to
The OJ Simpson Case and More......

Now, there are several items also that Rocky Bateman told me that corroberated what I was told in 1981,by a specific person who frequented Spahn Ranch, concerning The Manson Family, "Happenings" at Spahn Ranch, and MORE..........

And some of this intertwines with my comment earlier regarding:

"Fred & Kim Goldman versus Malcolm LaVergne & OJ Simpson."

Mario George Nitrini 111
-------
The OJ Simpson Case

Brian G said...

I can never understand Mario.He acts like he has some great info but I think we're supposed to guess what it is? Why not just tell us? He's got absolutely nothing to offer that's why.I do however think he may be related to Manson talking in riddles and nonsense.Is there a way to block certain peoples post so I can't see them? I enjoy most comments but this guy is a phony

Brian G said...

I can never understand Mario.He acts like he has some great info but I think we're supposed to guess what it is? Why not just tell us? He's got absolutely nothing to offer that's why.I do however think he may be related to Manson talking in riddles and nonsense.Is there a way to block certain peoples post so I can't see them? I enjoy most comments but this guy is a phony