Monday, June 8, 2015

Sharmagne Leland-St. John, Jay Sebring, Roman, and Elizabeth Folger

Normally, this is something I would never do, share a Facebook post unless it was Public. 

However, realizing that over 2,000 people are friends with this person (whom I won't name here), I figured it's not really private anymore, and Sharmagne is also quite public.


Here is the post:




I love this part:  
"Bugliosi withheld so much info on the murders, but I never understood why."

Personally, I've never heard of Sharmagne Leland-St. John until I read the above post.  She says she was Jay Sebring's girlfriend.   I'll admit I don't know much at all about Jay's private life during that time, maybe someone that does can chime in...


She has a public Facebook page, a Wiki page, and an IMdB page.  Sharmagne is quite accomplished as a poet and actress.  Her parents were actors.  She was married to Richard Sylbert, the Oscar-winning production designer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharmagne_Leland-St._John

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0500912/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm


I checked the Tate/LaBianca police reports and she is not listed as a suspect, although she clearly admits she was, along with Charles Tacot and others.


It's also the first I've read that Roman had plans of switching houses with Michael Butler.


(From Wiki) 

"Michael Butler is an American theatrical producer best known for bringing the rock musical Hair from Public Theater to Broadway in 1968.  During his time as Hair producer he was dubbed by the press as "the Hippie Millionaire."

"My future nephew was married to Gibby's younger sister."  In researching Elizabeth Folger, I could only find that Elizabeth was married to Robert Eldred.  Not sure if Robert was her future nephew, but thought I would throw all this out there as most here are always interested in the Folgers.



Here is Elizabeth in 2010:

Robert Eldred is a Financial Planner in the Bay Area.

And once again we hear the story that the Manson girls were swimming in the Cielo pool a day before the murders.

I faintly remember reading something long ago about the cast from Hair being questioned,  (also thrown out of Mexico at that time) but I don't recall the specifics...unfortunately...


Anyway, I'm glad to see some of the folks that were actually there starting to speak up, maybe with all these little tid-bits we'll be able to connect more dots!

40 comments:

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thanks Kimchi.
As always, your research is very interesting.

Venus is our "resident expert" on Jay Sebring, so hopefully she'll see this, and chime-in.

beauders said...

Remember everyone that Rosina Kroner Watson's "girlfriend" who was taken hostage by Lotsappapa, Bernard Crowe was roommates with Corrine Broskett, a cast member of "Hair." She was also friendly with the Gemini Twins who were also in "Hair" and were friends with Pic Dawson, which leads back to Cass Elliot.

Kimchi said...

Yes! Thank you Beauders!

Your comment made me dig a little further and led me to Michael Butler's website and to the alumni page...

Come to find out, Sharmagne Leland was also a cast member in Hair!

http://www.michaelbutler.com/hair/holding/links/castlinks.html

He (Butler) also has the newspaper articles about the Mexico deportment and it occurred in January 1969, although it doesn't give names.

Beauders, who were the Gemini Twins?

MrPoirot said...

Rosina meets Tex in Mar 69.
July 1 Tex burns Lotsapoppa-Rosina held as collateral.
Rosina seems to vanish from the scene that afternoon.
July 4 Tex meets Linda Kasabian. The two become inseparable.
Aug 8 Tex and Linda appear at Cielo and murder Sharon Tate.
Kasabian leaves Tex and heads to Taos NM that same week.

CarolMR said...

Thanks, Kimchi. Don't know what to make of this. I find it hard to believe that Sharon would allow the Manson girls to use her swimming pool the day before the murders. Like Lynyrd, I can't wait for Venus to comment!!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Carol,

Could you please contact Venus for us.
I have 2 or 3 email addresses for her, but none of them seem to work consistently.

I think Katie chats with her periodically too...

bobby said...

Kimchi, Always great info when you create a post for us. Your comments after hearing LVH audio were so honest. It is really hard for me to believe that no one from the Manson side had contact with any of the Tate victims prior to the murders. That is because of the circles they all ran in during that time. It is much easier to believe it was only coincidental contact like with the free health clinic as opposed to the girls swimming in the pool. Maybe this person is just embellishing a bit on her recollection.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Bob!

GREAT to see you Brother!
I hope you're doing well!

CarolMR said...

Hi, Lynyrd! I've already contacted Venus and I will let you know when I hear back from her.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Kimchi, interesting stuff! Thanks Carol!! I just heard from Venus. She should have some good info soon....

katie8753 said...

That's the first I've heard of them "swapping houses". I've never heard Doris, Patty or Debra mention it. Did Sharon know about that? Wasn't she having the nursery painted? Why do that if you're going to swap with someone. And didn't they sign a lease with Altobelli?

CarolMR said...

Katie, can't wait to hear what Venus has to say!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I feel like we should be listening to the theme song from Jeopardy. LOL!

katie8753 said...

Well I heard from Venus again, and she's having trouble with internet access due to bad weather. Hopefully she can comment in the next few days. Thanks Venus!!!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPNPZdOvBq4

beauders said...

The Gemini Twins were two actresses who were in "Hair."

katie8753 said...

Beauders said: The Gemini Twins were two actresses who were in "Hair."

I'm sorry Beauders, that just sounded funny and redundant. Gemini which means "2", and "Hair", which is what we were talking about.

I just thought that sounded funny.

Mrstormsurge said...

Bugliosi passed away tonight

Vincent Bugliosi, the Los Angeles County deputy district attorney who gained worldwide fame for his successful prosecutions of Charles Manson and his followers for the brutal 1969 murders of actress Sharon Tate and six others, has died. He was 80.

Bugliosi also become a best-selling true crime writer, co-authoring the compelling account “Helter Skelter” about the Manson murders and the sensational trial that followed, as well as other literary works.

But he was always aware of his primary legacy.

“No matter what I do, I’ll be forever known as the Manson prosecutor,” he told once told The Times.

Mrstormsurge said...

Vincent Bugliosi, who prosecuted Charles Manson and went on to co-write bestseller “Helter Skelter” about the trial, died Saturday at 80.

A 1976 TV movie was based on the book “Helter Skelter,” which he co-wrote with Curt Gentry, with another TV version in 2004. Bugliosi also wrote the book “The Prosecution of the American President” on which the 2013 film “Parkland” was based. His books “And the Sea Will Tell” and “Till Death Us Do Part” were also made into TV movies.

He successfully prosecuted Charles Manson and four others accused of the 1969 Tate-LaBianca murders, using circumstantial evidence to show that Manson ordered the killings although he did not physically commit the murders at Sharon Tate’s house.

His son, Vincent Bugliosi, Jr., told NBC News “He was a workaholic. What was remarkable was he always found time for everyone who needed work. Every fan letter he received, he responded to everyone.”

Bugliosi was born in Minnesota and earned a law degree in UCLA, then worked in the L.A. County District Attorney’s office. After entering private practice in 1972, he went on to write or co-write 12 books including “Outrage: The Five Reasons Why OJ Simpson Got Away With Murder.”

He is survived by his wife Gail and two children, Wendy and Vincent Jr.

Mrstormsurge said...

Famed former prosecutor and author Vincent Bugliosi has died at age 80, family members said Monday night.

Bugliosi was best known for prosecuting Charles Manson and the other defendants in the 1969 Tate-LaBianca murders. He later co-wrote the book “Helter Skelter” detailing the trial.

Born in Hibbing, Minnesota, Bugliosi moved to LA in the 1960s, where he earned his law degree from UCLA. During his time with the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s office, he successfully secured convictions in 105 of 106 felony jury trials, including 21 murder cases.

Bugliosi died Saturday, June 6.

“He was a workaholic. What was remarkable was he always found time for everyone who needed work. Every fan letter he received, he responded to everyone,” said his son, Vincent Bugliosi, Jr.

Bugliosi went into private practice in 1972, and went on to author or co-author a dozen books, including “And the Sea Will Tell,” “Outrage: The Five Reasons Why OJ Simpson Got Away With Murder,” and “The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder.”

He is survived by Gail, his wife of 59 years, and his two children, Wendy and Vincent Jr.

Mrstormsurge said...

Above, I said he passed away tonight but apparently he passed Saturday. It was announced tonight.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Stormsurge. May he rest in peace!!! I hope now that people can quit calling him a liar.

Mrstormsurge said...

Welcome. We don't give enough thanks to the people who keep us all safe.

Mrstormsurge said...

BTW, my name reflects that I'm a fan of the University of Miami athletics, football especially. Bugliosi went to UM as an undergrad on a tennis scholarship.

katie8753 said...

You're right Stormy!!! Vincent did us all a big favor by putting those animals away!!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thank You Stormsurge.
GREAT to see you Brother!

grimtraveller said...

A lot seemed to happen on August 7th, Charlie & Steph go to San Diego, Charlie picks up a traffic ticket and lays Helter skelter on Steph's sister; Bobby gets arraigned in court for the murder of Gary Hinman and at some point apparently lets the girls at the ranch know........and then they go to the Tates for a swim session !
I'm not really being cynical when I say I don't believe it.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hello Grim Traveller,

Please contact me at your convenience.

lynyrdskynyrdband@gmail.com

Thanks, LS

Mrstormsurge said...

Thx Lynyrd and Katie. YOU guys are the best. Always make me feel glad to come here and lots of interesting discussion.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Stormy!!!

Venus e-mailed me, and she's having trouble getting on the blog for some reason, but gave me a message to convey: I contacted a few different people and was just told that he dated a lot of women. :-)

Thanks Venus, I'm sure he did. But maybe Jay needed reminding that Sharmagne was his girlfriend. On August 6,1969 he was frantically looking for another girl....

http://www.lsb3.com/2011/10/jay-had-his-mind-on-something-else-aug.html

CarolMR said...

Katie, I haven't heard back from Venus. Did she tell you if she has anything more to add to this story?

grimtraveller said...

I think this Sharmagne is a grade A liar.
Mind you, Charles Tacot was listed as a suspect in the first Tate report although by then, he'd been eliminated.

Sharmagne Leland-St.John-Sylbert said...

To set the record straight, I think grimtraveller is a Grade-A A-hole!

When I was questioned for 6 hours in my home by an Asian/Latino detective and his partner, Charlie Tacot was still under suspicion. I knew Charlie Taco. Brian Morris was also suspected. but that was ridiculous! Everyone in our crowd suspected everyone else.

When it was thought that it was a witchcraft/devil worship murder someone told them I was a witch. I'm sure they meant Bitch! Hence the cops came calling, to interrogate me.

Re: Abigail Folger's younger sister... either my late husband or his twin brother remarked that my nephew Christopher Sylbert had been in a relationship with the Folger girl which I understood to have been a marriage. Chris Sylbert was the son of Victoria Delacorte (Dell Publishing) It didn't seem odd to me that they would have been a couple. Since they both came from extremely wealthy families.

There was no reason for me to have ever mentioned it to Christopher who died several years ago of MS. HIs funeral was in the Wee Kirk O' the Heather at Forest Lawn Glendale. Ring any bells? On my Facebook page I merely repeated what I was told by the Sylbert family, into which I had married.

On another thread I have listed many of the people I recognise from Jay's funeral video.

I don't like being called a liar by some jackass delivery boy who is infatuated with hapless murder victims.

grimtraveller said...

"Sharmagne,"
The victims are of very little interest to me, actually.
My comment about you as a liar was in reference to your stating that "the Manson girls that killed Sharon Tate" were swimming in the pool at Cielo the day before the murders.
And if all you were doing was repeating on your page what "the Sylberts" told you, then shame on you because if your second last paragraph about being a suspect is true, you should be writhing with embarrassment for ever posting that stuff. You accuse Bugliosi of leaving out so many facts; well, you left in so many things that are not facts.
Thanks for the e-mail by the way, "Sharmagne."

Sharmagne Leland-St.John-Sylbert said...

GrimTraveler print out my email, as you call it,
and shove it up your arse. Plenty of room
up there.

Manson was known to have visited Garretson
His guests were not barred from using the pool.

If the victims mean nothing to you then what are you even doing here?

grimtraveller said...

I didn't say they meant "nothing" to me. Once again, I'm replying in a particular context ~ that of you stating my infatuations.

So Manson was known to have visited Garretson ? Verify, please.

Yes, Garretson's guests weren't barred from using the pool. That isn't the issue. The issue is your statement that the "Manson girls that killed Sharon Tate" were swimming in the pool the day before the murders. People who can't back up their stuff usually resort to red herrings and insults. Or they are graceful enough to say, "I was wrong" and risk being laughed at ~ but are just as likely to win respect.
If you really are "Sharmagne" you've got some mouth on you for an old lady !
But tell me, why would I want to shove anything from you up my arse ?
Come to think of it, "arse" is very English.
What ho and toodle pip, dearie !!

grimtraveller said...

Sharmagne Leland-St.John-Sylbert said...

To set the record straight, I think grimtraveller is a Grade-A A-hole!

You're setting the wrong record straight. That above is opinion. And hardly original.
Give me facts. Contribute something worthwhile and wholesome to the debate as an "insider."
I'm all ears "Sharmagne."

Sharmagne Leland-St.John-Sylbert said...

No you are all conjecture and innuendo! and name calling first.

Until you apologise for calling me a liar I have nothing more to say to you.

"People who can't back up their stuff usually resort to red herrings and insults."grim

You started the insults!
"I didn't say they meant "nothing" to me". grim

"The victims are of very little interest to me, actually." grim

Very little is one step above nothing!

"If you really are "Sharmagne" you've got some mouth on you for an old lady !" grim

If you really are grimtraveller you have some mouth on you for a delivery boy with stupid looking hair!

You have done nothing but insult or try to insult me since you first uttered my name! I am proud of the age I have achieved and my accomplishments. Most of my friends from that era are all gone and frittered their short lives away.

grimtraveller said...

Sharmagne Leland-St.John-Sylbert said...

No you are all conjecture and innuendo! and name calling first

I didn't call you names. That is not my style. I said I thought "this Sharmagne" was a grade A liar. That is not calling you names. That was stating an opinion. In my original statement, I wasn't even addressing "Sharmagne." If you really are Sharmagne, rest assured, I'm not insulting or calling you names when I say I think you're lying.

Until you apologise for calling me a liar I have nothing more to say to you

But I do think that whoever wrote that facebook post is lying. Susan Atkins has written or been the major contributor to 3 books, one of them an autobiography, one a virtual autobiography and one of them based on her words verbatim. She, from 1969 to her death in 2009 spoke extensively about what led up to the murders and the murders themselves. She has never said she was ever at Cielo the day before the murders. Quite the opposite actually. She would have had nothing to lose by stating she had if she had. Indeed, one of her key statements about the night in question was that Tex said he knew the house and it's layout, clearly implying that she knew neither.
Linda Kasabian was on the witness stand 18 days in the original trial, more days for the Watson and later Van Houten trials; she's been interviewed ad nauseam by law enforcement and TV and not once has she ever stated she'd previously been to Cielo. Charles Manson's lawyer even flew some woman, June Emmers, down to the trial in an attempt to get her to discredit Kasabian as a liar by saying that Kasabian told her about the rich glitzy $250,000 houses she'd been in. In the end, the judge had to have her testimony stricken from the record, she was so unreliable.
Pat Krenwinkel has had numerous parole hearings since 1978 and in them the board drag her through the details of life prior to the killings and the killings themselves and while Pat has been all over the place in various ways, she has been consistent about certain things. Among those things are that she didn't know before she set out that they were going to kill, she didn't know any of the victims {it is interesting that none of the killers ever recalled seeing a Sharon Tate film} and she didn't know where they were going and when they got there, she followed Tex.....because she'd never been there.

So again I'll say it, to say the women that killed Sharon were swimming in the pool at Cielo the day before is at worst lying, at best, repeating falsehoods which amount to more or less the same thing.
Besides which, it has been a matter of both record and by his admission since 1971, that Charles Watson killed Sharon Tate. So I most certainly am not apologizing, although it was not my intention to offend "Sharmagne."
You ought to deal with the matter at hand "Sharmagne." In fact, you could be of great benefit to this blog. There's quite a few Jay Sebring fans here.

grimtraveller said...

Sharmagne Leland-St.John-Sylbert said...

grim, You started the insults!

I've not insulted you. Some of the people closest to me have been liars ! And I love them to bits. I used to be a liar. When I was called out for that reason as a youth, even when I wasn't lying, the persons that would have called me a liar weren't insulting me. I certainly wouldn't insult an old lady. I might get sarcastic {for me it's humour}, but insult ? No. I wouldn't even insult Surgio.

Very little is one step above nothing!

Sure it is. But it's still more.

If the victims mean nothing to you then what are you even doing here?

There are many characters within the saga, criminals, victims, law enforcers, writers, family members etc, not to mention a plethora of associated subjects like religion, metaphysics, drugs, society, sex, music, the 60s, the law, the counterculture, different decades, race, politics, crime etc, etc, many of which I find fascinating in and of themselves. Put together, it's an endless feast.

If you really are grimtraveller you have some mouth on you for a delivery boy with stupid looking hair!

But I don't deny it nor am I offended or embarrassed by it or you saying it.
If you are really an old lady, you've got a sassy mouth on you. That's not an insult, that's almost a compliment because I happen to find it quite funny that an old lady would bang out insults to some guy she doesn't even know. I've known a number of sassy old ladies in my time and when they've started going into one, it's always amused me.
When you keep calling me a delivery boy {I'm 53}, if I was American, I might take that the wrong way but as a Brit, Black people were rarely called "boy" here so it's no odds to me. Delivery work has helped buy my house, clothe and feed my family, pay for some great holidays, musical instruments, albums and books and a lot more besides. Why would I be offended ?
And I like my hair ! At least it's all mine !!

You have done nothing but insult or try to insult me since you first uttered my name!

Not so. I've called you out on matters I think you are somewhat duplicitous about. As for the answers "Sharmagne" could give, like Diana Ross back in '71, I'm still waiting.

I am proud of the age I have achieved and my accomplishments

No reason you shouldn't be.
Unless.....