Friday, June 19, 2015

Did The Victims Feel Pain?......

One thing that I've always wondered about when contemplating these horrible murders is that you never hear of anyone really saying that they're in pain.  Yes, there are stories of some guy yelling, "No, don't!" (etc) but there's no indication of when that definitely happened.  And, yes, we know that Abigail told Pat that she was "already dead."  Of course, some people are skeptical but this is the official story so....

Here are my thoughts on this.  First, I need to give you some background.  I started babysitting at the age of 10 or 11.  I know that's young but I was very responsible, lived in a small town, knew practically everyone and was never afraid as I knew help was always near.  I was booked up weeks and months in advance and there were actually arguments sometimes over who'd get me to watch their kids.  You know, "I asked her first!"  "No, you didn't!"  So, I almost had a day care business.  There were times I'd be watching a zillion kids in one day.  I kept babysitting until my early 20's, then stopped because the kids were growing up and I needed to join the real world.  

When I was about 20, I was babysitting for a neighbor who had 2 kids who were 3 and 5.  I'd taken care of them practically since birth so I was very comfortable in their house.  This particular night, I was going to get the kids a snack so I went to the kitchen to get something.  Their mom had washed dishes and left them in the drainer on the counter.  I remember thinking that it was strange that she left sharp knives with the blades pointing up.  I thought about putting away the dishes as this was the sort of thing I did (along with picking up toys, dusting or whatever looked like it needed to be done) and figured that I'd do it after the kids were in bed.

I reached into a cabinet above the dishes to get a snack (this was the snack cabinet filled with pretzels and so on) for the kids and a glass for myself (to have some soda).  When I lowered my arm I can remember thinking that things just seemed strange.  I can't describe it but it was like I was there, but not there.  Things seemed very dreamlike. I'm sure you've all been woken out of a sound sleep and you aren't quite sure you're awake.  This was sort of how that felt.  Everything seemed to be in slow motion.  My eyes were sort of wandering all over.  I remember thinking about the glass in my hand and looked at it.  It was all red and I couldn't figure that out. My arm was all red too and there was red all over the floor.  The redness was dripping from my arm.

I turned toward the dish drainer and noticed that the tallest knife had blood that was quite a way down the blade.  I looked at my arm and saw a gaping hole in it midway between my wrist and elbow. Now, I'm VERY squeamish so the fact that I could look INTO this hole and not pass out still amazes me.  I had enough sense to realize that I needed help NOW

This was before cell phones and 911.

I told the kids to stay put on the couch, grabbed a towel, wrapped it around my arm and ran to the next door neighbors but they weren't home.  I went to another neighbor who was a paramedic and he said that I definitely needed to go to the hospital.  His wife went with me to get the kids as she said she'd watch them.  (I had no way of getting hold of the parents as this was before cell phones and I didn't have the phone number of where they were, plus I just didn't have the time to try to find it)

Once I knew the kids were ok, off we went to the hospital.  Long story short, I had several stitches put in my arm and was really surprised that I felt no pain.  The ER staff wasn't really surprised and they kept saying that I'd feel it when the shock wore off.

We got back to town, I picked up the kids, we walked back to their house, I got them ready for bed and their parents happened to call.  After hearing what'd happened, they said they'd come right home but I said it was ok, I was fine, they could stay where they were.  I think they came home a few hours later.  In the meantime, I'd cleaned up the kitchen and wiped it down as best I could without getting my huge bandage wet.

At the hospital, my bill was under my folks' insurance but the neighbors said they wanted to take care of it and they did.  They told me later that they found blood all over the place, I'd left quite a trail going from the kitchen to the family room, out the back door....I thought I'd gotten it all but missed a lot too.  I was still feeling very foggy tho.  When I went to the Dr. later to get the stitches out it was clear that the wound hadn't fully healed.  I still have a puffy area where this happened

So, I really think that they were all suffering from extreme shock and I've always wondered if they experienced what I did, the sort of dreamlike state.  If so, that explains a lot.  I didn't feel pain until about 6 hours after this happened and by the next day my arm was incredibly black and blue

I really don't know how to end this thread, this is just a story about an event that happened to me and I've often wondered if this is sort of what they experienced.

9 comments:

katie8753 said...

Thanks Venus, that was a great story. I had a "friend of a friend" years ago back in the 60's that was stabbed in the back at a bar. He thought the guy just punched him in the back. He didn't realize until after he collapsed that he was stabbed.

I personally think that if you're stabbed, you don't feel it at first, because you're stunned. But after several stab wounds, you do start to feel it.

But I don't know. I hope they didn't feel it....

katie8753 said...

I think that if you're stabbed by surprise you don't feel it. Years ago I was working with my weed-eater, and I thought I had it off, but I pushed the button, and it ate my legs. It took me a few seconds until I took my hand off the button.

I think it takes a few seconds until your brain tells you there's pain, but I do also believe that if something is so outrageous and off the wall, it takes maybe a minute or two to register.

CarolMR said...

Interesting story, Venus. My ex-brother-in-law was a NYC police officer. I remember he once told me that many gunshot victims don't even realize that they've been shot. Some have told him that they were just nauseous.

grimtraveller said...

katie8753 said...

"I hope they didn't feel it...."


That sums up my feelings entirely. I really hope they didn't feel pain. But I think some of them did. I think Voytek Frykowski did. I think Leno LaBianca did. I think Gary Hinman and Shorty Shea did.
Rosemary LaBianca and Sharon Tate seem to have gone to the grave thinking about someone they loved while Steven Parent and Jay Sebring were blown away so quickly, they may not have felt anything.
And one does wonder how much actual felt pain Abigail Folger would have been in, given that she was able to run in her attempt to escape. But we'll never know. Maybe adrenaline takes over in some instances and there's more to it than pain, maybe it's overridden.
It's an interesting question to which I hope I'm never in the kind of scenario that gives me the opportunity to experience the answer.

bobby said...

I think the absolute terror & realization of death far out ways the pain in my sympathy of the victims . I am certain many thoughts went through their minds. Their families friends and their very lives going through their minds while being murdered. To me that's the horror for them. After death it's their family & friends that do all the suffering. As a believer I know after death they were in paradise so it's their loved ones who become the true victims.

katie8753 said...

Grim, I agree with you. Steve Parent went so quickly, he probably didn't even have a chance to wonder what was going on. Jay was shot and kicked in the head, and maybe didn't even know what else happened. Abigail and Voytek bolted, probably driven by adrenaline to just escape. They were chased down, viciously beaten and stabbed. That's gotta hurt. Leno was hog-tied and stabbed, which has to be absoltely horrible. Hands tied behind your back, and someone stabbing you. Rosemary probably suffered pain too, because she was hard to kill.

Gary Hinman probably suffered most pain of all, seeing that he was a prisoner, lying in his own home in pain, for days. I'm sure Shorty suffered pain as well, his skull has dents in it, from the beatings on his head. Voytek had dents in his head too.

But Bobby, I agree with you too, I think Sharon probably suffered more than the rest. She had to watch and listen to her friends die. And know she was next. It's one thing to have a nice day at your house and have strangers break into home and start demanding money. You probably feel, well if I give them money, they'll go away. The threat of danger is there, but at a distance. But it's another to have one of the intruders to say "You're all gonna die", and everyone gets chased down and butchered. Sharon knew that she was going to die. She begged Tex not to kill her, let her have her baby. But he killed her anyway.

I can't imagine the fear that went thru her head, the absolute terror, the gut-wrenching horror that your home could be invaded by some demented, murderous hippies to wreak havoc on you and your friends, to chase, cut, shoot and stab everyone in the house, for no reason at all. And yes, they probably all saw their lives before their eyes.

katie8753 said...

Happy Father's Day guys!!

MrPoirot said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TfgWgXyBiU

At the 3:50 point in this video is a hint as to what William Garretson was talking about when he told Brian Davis in an interview about some people he didn't know who knocked on his door a few hours after the murders at Cielo. Garretson said they had a "three eyed baby" with them.

Venus said...

Katie, I know what you mean about Sharon. I can NOT imagine the horror she felt watching what happened and then knowing she'd be next. There are NO words....