Tuesday, November 12, 2013

Vincent T. Bugliosi and Charles Manson 2013

Leary said:
"You'd think that given the HUGE role Manson played in his life and fame, that Vincent would have the human curiosity for maybe one more sit down with Charlie, just for history sake.  It would be grand theatre. I've never understood people who had within their means to create 'epic moments' and yet just never seemed the least bit interested in doing so".

Lynyrd Responds:

I'd pay good money to see the elderly Vincent T. Bugliosi and Charles Manson, square-off in an isolated room for one hour.  Old adversaries talking shop (as it were), one last time.  At this point, I bet the two old buzzards would probably get along pretty good.

I'd love to see them talk about "old times" (i.e., the girls' famous street corner vigil, etc)... and moreover... the crimes themselves, and the trial.  I'm sure Manson would probably crack a few jokes.

I wonder if the notion of meeting with Manson (one last time) has ever crossed Bugliosi's mind.  I also wonder, if Manson would actually accept Bugliosi's invitation.

Leary... this is one of your better "hypotheticals".  A meeting of these two adversaries after 4+ decades, would surely be... historic and epic.  As an enthusiast of TLB, it's hard to argue otherwise.

74 comments:

katie8753 said...

That picture of Charlie cracks me up. It looks like he's about to throw a humongous tantrum.

Yeah, that would be very interesting for these 2 to square off and reminisce about the good ole days. They could talk about how Charlie told the Family members that were on the outside to threaten to kill everyone. LOL.

I wonder who will outlive who???

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

"What you talkin' bout Vincent?!" LOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

If this ran over one hour, they'd probably need a nap and snack break.

matt prokes said...

that would be a cool pay-per-view event.

johnnyseattle said...

they probably both watch Matlock.

leary7 said...

you know Vince has a sense of history, and Charlie has a sense of theatre. You'd think one of the countless cable channels who offer up nothing original would pony up some money and make it happen.
But if the sponsor insisted on a moderator, who would it be? Regis or Kathie Lee?
Hell, it couldn't hurt to ask, Lynyrd. Use your connections with Candy and Nuts or someone who knows Charlie to ask him first then approach Vince. Put it together as a podcast.

I don't see Vince as a Matlock guy, Johnny. What was that one with James Garner where he was a P.I. living in a trailer at the beach? That's Vince. And of course Charlie would be straight up Baretta.

katie8753 said...

I agree with Lynyrd, if the debate lasts more than one hour, they need to provide cots for nap time.

Leary, I think the moderator should be Nurse Ratched. Soft music for pill taking.

Also plenty of adult diapers to be had for all.

And if bad goes to worse, Charlie could chase Vincent around in his motorized wheel chair @ 3 MPH. LOL.

BTW, James Garner was in Maverick.

johnnyseattle said...

Ha Leary7.
I guess you are right about them not being Matlock types.

Maybe Vince could be James Rockford and Charlie could be his ex con trouble-making sidekick, Angel Martin.

johnnyseattle said...

George Spahn could be Rocky and Squeeky could be Beth Davenport.


katie8753 said...

What I'd like to see is a family photo shoot.

Tex, Bruce, Bobby, Pat, Leslie and maybe Gypsy, Sandy & Squeaky, all gathered around Charlie sitting in his wheelchair, just a pickin' and a grinnin'. LOL.

THAT would be one for the books! :)

leary7 said...

45 years and they're all still alive. Well, except for TJ and ?.
It just feels like a joke - all the good ones who died before their time and Charlie Manson lives to be 80.
A group shot of the girls together again would be worth a million. If it included Linda - two million.

christopher butche said...

I was watching an almost 3 hour interview with Bugliosi on youtube, where he discusses his books.

Still with it but his Helter-Skelter patter is a bit too polished now, ie. the same old quotes.

But he did mention that he does not have a computer, does not use the internet, email or have a cell phone, and I did regard that as something in common he and Manson could discuss.

johnnyseattle said...

christopher
when i hear vince speak he always has his talking points down. even when he was doing his jfk assassination tour, he would try to get the radio hosts to only talk about the points he wanted to deliver rather than take 'live' questions from the guests.

although i do recall once he was interviewed by jesse ventura and vince got so angry and got off track...well, you watch and decide:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7P9z5Hcp8U

it's funny when you can't handle jesse ventura.

christopher butche said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcUrubpb2tw

above is the Bugliosi 3hr interview, been up for 18 or so hours.

johnnyseattle said...

by the way, i have rethought it and if we could get vince and charlie to star in 'The Odd Couple' that would be fabulous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af1h4ibpKJA


On November 13th, Charlie was asked to remove himself from prison...

christopher butche said...

thanks johhnyseattle, I'll check out the link.

I do find that Bugliosi comes across as full to the brim with fact, but then when I watch different interviews or talks the same anecdotes and quotes are repeated almost verbatim.

I understand he works at it, and obviously enjoys the paperwork and brain work that goes with it. Consider him telling Steven Kay that during the original trial that he was not to refer to notes in court. Essentially learn by heart and give the appearance of being the expert.

He has a good memory and recall but it may make him think in straight lines, whereas of course Manson's thought process are way more serpentine.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Leary asked:
"What was that one with James Garner where he was a P.I. living in a trailer at the beach?"

The Rockford Files.

Great show!
I loved the theme song, and his car!

His buddy "Angel" was the coolest!

The show's intro and theme song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO74YJpVNsM

katie8753 said...

Johnny I love it!

Charlie can be Oscar & Vince can be Felix. LOL.

johnnyseattle said...

I always thought what if Vince had received real justice and been sent to prison for the assault on his mistress -the one he forced to have the abortion.
And finds himself with a new cellmate, one Charlie Manson.
now THAT would be hilarious.

'Hey Vince, let me rock your world.'

CarolMR said...

"And of course Charlie would be straight up Baretta."

That's funny, Leary. Last year I saw an episode of Dr. Phil and his guest was Robert Blake who played Baretta. Blake, at one point, shouted to Dr. Phil, "Look, I'm not a people person!!" I can picture Charlie doing something like that.

Matt said...

I can't say I disagree with Leary on this one. That would be an interview for the ages IF they treated Manson as an equal (yeh, right)... but if they could it would be incredible theatre.

katie8753 said...

Hi Matt. Who is "they"? I thought it was Charlie & Vince rapping.

CarolMR said...

After the trial, didn't Charlie tell Vince that he (Vince) was fair to him?

leary7 said...

I think that is true, Carol. Man, I just saw Vince on one of the Kennedy specials and he looked like a ghost. And his disdain or even hatred for "conspiracy nuts" is almost palpable. Personally, I've never been comfortable with ANYONE who argued with 100% certainty either way on JFK's killer(s). There is just to much circumstantial evidence both ways to be 100% certain. Those that do just seem to have an ideological agenda behind their conclusion. Weird, trying to figure out Vince's though, since he also screams from the mountaintop that W. Bush should be tried for murder. Vince is an enigma himself, something I think he often called Charlie.

CarolMR said...

Interesting, Leary. I guess it's hard to tell which side of the ideological divide Vince falls on.

katie8753 said...

Leary I've been watching all that JFK stuff for 2 weeks. It's my opinion that we will never know the whole truth about Kennedy's assassination. Oswald maintained until he was killed that he didn't do it. Kennedy had a lot of enemies. Who knows?

It's like this case. We'll never know the WHY unless Charlie talks. And that's probably never going to happen.

katie8753 said...

Why would you shoot the President of the United States and leave the rifle behind?

It has always seemed strange to me that they found "the assassin" within a few hours after the shooting. That's remarkable police work.

I remember when all this happened. I was 10 years old. And one thing I remember distinctly was that they probably could have arrested anyone and said "we got him" and the whole world would be rabid to get a piece of him. He was judged guilty from the start, just because he was in custody.

leary7 said...

yeah, Katie, I've been watching too and when Bob Schieffer of CBS would ask his guests why they thought 61% of America still believes that Oswald did not act alone I would scream at the TV "BECAUSE THERE IS A TON OF EVIDENCE THAT SUPPORTS THAT NOTION YOU IDIOT" starting with JFK's missing brain, the burned autopsy notes, Oswald's intelligence connections, conflicting witness accounts and a thousand other items.

However...HOWEVER...it does remain quite possible that Oswald did indeed act alone or was involved in a plot. His actions both before and after his arrest and his pointed claim of "being just a patsy" still ring alarm bells. And it IS POSSIBLE there were multiple plots to kill JFK ongoing at that time and that "silly little communist", as Jackie O. called Lee, just beat everyone to the punch.
One thing that is hard to deny is that Oswald was every bit the asshole that Manson was - every bit the egomaniac and megalomaniac and beater of women and such. Actually, before he lost it after the Crowe shooting, Charlie was probably a hundred times more likable than Lee who was for the most part surly and anti-social. And they both had two of the worst mothers of the twentieth century. That's a starting point.

katie8753 said...

Yeah Leary, I've always suspected that Oswald was set up. By whom? I have no idea. Could have been most anyone. What better patsy than a gun-toting commie?

I watched that movie on The National Geographic channel with Rob Lowe and it was more about Oswald than Kennedy. It portrayed him just as you describe: egomaniacal and megalomaniacal.

When they put out an APB on the suspected assassin (white male, around 5'8", approx 140 pounds), how did they zoom in on Oswald so quickly? That pretty much describes 1,000's of guys in Dallas.

katie8753 said...

And if Oswald was such a crack sniper, why did he shoot Connally?

leary7 said...

You know what is funny, Katie. I researched the JFK assassination for years and yet I saw something on one of the shows last night that just floored me. It was a shot of a policeman dusting the passenger side door of Tippet's police car for fingerprints. I always knew of and remember that eyewitness account that Tippet's shooter first came over and talked to Tippet through the passenger side window before Tippet exited the car and walked around the front and was shot. But I don't recall reading anywhere about Oswald's prints being on the car. And yet there was video of a cop dusting for prints right before my eyes. I am going to have to go back and do a search on a few of the JFK sites and see if there is any info there. It's pretty much a 98% certainty that Oswald killed Tippet before sneaking into the movie theatre where he was arrested (JUST PAY THE DAMN 75 CENTS YOU IDIOT INSTEAD OF HAVING THAT SHOE SALESMAN SEE YOU SNEAK IN AND CALL THE COPS. LEE WAS ALWAYS A CHEAP BASTARD)

But isn't that amazing. I thought I had looked at every fact and angle of the case and yet Oswald's prints on Tippet's car - there or not there? - is something that never computed in me before. Goes to show, fifty years and there is always something new to learn.

leary7 said...

yeah Katie, two of your questions are easily answered.
Oswald could not have left the building WITH the rifle. That would have been suicide.
And I doubt even if he was the shooter, that Connally was a target. Odds are pretty strong that the bullet that hit Connally went through JFK - the famous single bullet. Although Connally to his dying day vehemently denied being hit at the same time as JFK. By the way, I saw a story that Connally's clothes with his blood stains are going on display in Austin for the first time since 1964 at the History Center's Archives.

Finally, your question about how Oswald's description did get out so fast is a BIG ONE since even the eyewitnesses who claimed to have seen a rifle in the sixth floor window could not have had a clear view of Oswald or his body type. So where did the description come from. I never read Posner's book (hate the guy) "Case Closed" or Vince's either so maybe somebody who has can answer that riddle.

Fifty years and still a thousand questions.

katie8753 said...

Well he entered the building with the rifle, supposedly in some type of brown wrapper. You would think that with all the pandemonium outside he could slip out with the rifle the same way. Did that rifle have his prints on it?

I know very little about guns, but would that bullet have enough velocity to go thru one guy and then go completely thru another guy?

There were several witnesses to the Tippett shooting that ID'd Oswald as the shooter, but I just wonder if they were just happy to have someone to blame. I don't know.

katie8753 said...

Leary thanks for the info about Connally's clothes. I just made a thread on my blog! :)

leary7 said...

yeah, there is a very good site called JFKFacts that has the story of Connolly's clothes.
Katie, can you post the address of your blog here again or email it to me.
yeah, Spector's single bullet or magic bullet as it was sometimes called has been one of the BIG BONES of contention for decades. However proponents of the theory have really upped their game the last decade or so with various tests and models to the point where it does seem credible. The bullet did slow down and "yaw" as it is called (tumbled sideways) after it exited JFK's throat before striking Connolly in the back but it has been proven through simulation that it did still have enough speed to cause Connolly's wounds. One doesn't want to believe one bullet could cause seven wounds in two different people and emerge in relatively pristine condition as it did, but recent tests have made it all seem more plausible. I hate it, but it's true.

matt prokes said...

leary7 said.... Personally, I've never been comfortable with ANYONE who argued with 100% certainty either way on JFK's killer(s). There is just to much circumstantial evidence both ways to be 100% certain.
Boy You got that right!
What gets me are the
Folks who stick to a theory no matter how illogical it is(on both sides of the fence)...the latest is that Jackie did it...yes she stuck a gun in his face and shot him...of course no-one happened to see it for the past 50 years.

matt prokes said...

If you want to see obsession in action check out ralph cinque's blog...I've dealt with this guy on facebook...if you think it wasn't oswald in the doorway you are a c.i.a. disinformation agent!
http://oswaldinthedoorway.blogspot.com/

matt prokes said...

Oh and by the way Leary I'd still like to read that thing you wrote about You and June at the Cemetary sometime.

katie8753 said...

Thanks for that website Leary. I'll check it out.

My blog address is: http://blogaboutnothing7.blogspot.com. Come over and check it out when you get a chance!

katie8753 said...

Hi Matt. Now they're saying Jackie did it???? Oh brother.....

Rob King said...

damn, Matt, I thought I sent that to you a long time ago. My bad. But I just checked and don't have your email address. give me a way to get it to you and I promise to do so.

I've always said that one of the if not the greatest tragedy of the JFK murder was that with the rise of conspiracy theorists it became fashionable to dismiss anyone who questioned the govt or status quo as a "conspiracy nut". And the problem was there were enough real wackos who used the assassination to promote absurd conspiracy theories that fit their agendas and ideologies that the net effect was anyone who offered up alternative viewpoints in the past several decades was vulnerable to being immediately tagged as a conspiracy nut.

You're dead on Matt. There is so much revulsion by those on the "certainty extremities" for anyone who remains in the middle it seems like a hundred different jihads in the same neighborhood.
Think of our man Col Scott and his antipathy for Bugliosi and then multiply that by a hundred and you have the JFK assassination community. It is an exhausting and depressing place and one I gladly abandoned years ago.

matt prokes said...

I change my mind on an almost daily basis as to what really happened.the only thing i'm pretty sure of is that oswald was involved somehow.
logic tells me theres just too many coincidences for him not to be.
Rob King?

matt prokes said...

leary, sent you an email on gmail....

katie8753 said...

I can't understand how anyone in this world or any other world could think that Oswald acted alone. I do think he was involved, but I'd bet my bottom dollar that he was astounded at the final outcome.

I'll bet he was running real scared because he never dreamed it would all turn out like it did.

John & Robert Kennedy made some real enemies with the underworld. From what I've read and seen, Joe Kennedy was involved (I guess) in securing the Illinois vote for John by promising the underworld gang leaders that they could continue their illegal dealings unfettered if they secured the Illinois vote for John.

Then when Robert Kennedy announced he was cracking down on organized crime, it made them really mad.

Jack Ruby was involved in organized crime as well. Coincidence? I think not.

leary7 said...

sorry matt, forgot to switch email accounts. that's actually my name. I've used A. leary for years as a pen name.
there is a strong case for mafia involvement, Katie. Hell, Lee's own uncle was a soldier in the Marcello family in New Orleans. And Marcello hated the Kennedys more than anyone. But there is also a strong case against military intelligence and the CIA as there was widespread belief that JFK was looking to both get us out of Vietnam and shut down the CIA. And of course J. Edgar Hoover and the Kennedys hated each other as well. And there are many intelligent folk who still swear LBJ had a hand in everything. And the list goes on.

But as much as I genuinely hate to admit it Katie, you can't dismiss Vince and the other lone gunman proponents as morons and wackos. Oswald was that deranged, and that desperate for fame. There is no question that he shot at Gen Walker six months earlier. No question both he and his rifle were in the TSB building at the time of the shooting. No question when he was arrested in the theatre he had on his possession the gun that most likely killed the policeman Tippet and so on.

One of the crazy parts for me is that when Lee left the TSB building a few minutes after the killing he caught a bus. And when Tex and the girls left the LaBiancas they walked to the bus stop and waited for the bus. Maybe the two biggest crimes of the 20th century and in both cases the perpetrators took the bus in their getaway. Crazy.

katie8753 said...

Leary I do think Oswald was crazy enough to do this, but I just can't buy it that he did it alone. I think "someone" approached him. Oswald was probably involved in some underground "groups" (commie or otherwise) and met up with some shady characters. I just think it's too convenient that Ruby killed him so quickly. That just blows a giant whistle to me.

I don't recall Tex & the girls catching a bus. They hitched with a guy that Lou Lou flirted with. In fact he was so taken with her that he came to the ranch the next day looking for her.

Song of the Siren. LOL.

leary7 said...

maybe I am wrong on that one Katie. but I seem to recall reading somewhere them waiting at the bus stop after leaving the LaBianca's.

Damn, where have all the posters gone. Mansonology seems to be in a real downturn. Both this and liz's site seem to have lost about 20-30 regulars in the past year. Mr Dilligaf, Grump, the Saint etc etc. Damn shame.

jeffrey jeff said...

Hey Leary,
I remember hearing something years ago about you having an association with June Oswald. I don't know any of the details, but what an interesting blog entry your story would make on the 50th anniversary. Of course if that is something personal that you don't want out for public consumption, I totally understand. Just want to say I always enjoy reading your intelligent posts and the classy way you have handled your detractors of late.

I have also studied the JFK assassination for many years, reading many of the books regarding the various theories. One of the theories that I had previously discounted was the lone gunman theory. As Leary mentioned upthread, the single bullet theory has been made more plausible of late. Repositioning Connely in the correct position of the jump seat does seem to line up the trajectory. From watching the Zapruder film, Connely has almost turned all the way around to see what was happening in the back seat. It does not appear (to me) that he has been hit at this point.
Anyway, with newer developments in ballistics and re-aligning Connely's position, I am once again considering the lone gunman theory. There are a lot of crazy theories out there. But one of the craziest of them all is that a 23 year old loser shot the President of the United States with a $20 rifle on his lunch break.

CarolMR said...

"It's like this case. We'll never know the WHY unless Charlie talks. And that's probably never going to happen." - Katie

And if Charlie talked, who would believe him now?
There's a show on the ID Discovery channel called "A Crime to Remember." Last week focused on the Alice Crimmins case (if you're a NY-er and as old as I am, you will remember it) and tonight the focus is on "The Career Girl Murders." I mention this because one of the victims, Janice Wylie, was a friend of Joanna Pettet. And Joanna was also a friend of Sharon Tate's and had lunch at Cielo Drive on the last day. Joanna was divorced from actor Alex Cord and their only child, a 26-year-old son, died of an overdose in 1995. Poor Joanna. The nightmares she must have...

leary7 said...

Ah, just when I am lamenting the absence of posters two of my favorite show up.
Thanks for the kind words, Jerry Jeff, very gracious of you. Is your moniker for Jerry Jeff Walker, one of my favorites?

I would be happy to share my short story of breaking into the Rose Hill cemetery in the midnight hour with Junie so she could see her father's grave for the first time. I need to get it off in an email to Matt so if you want to read it I guess we'll just have to connect via email - aleary80@gmail.com

Junie is an interesting study in herself. She has allot of both of her parents traits. She did an interview with NYTimes back in the mid-nineties I think where she lied boldfaced about me - easily proven lies - and I desperately wanted to sue her for libel but I was out of the country and just couldn't get it together at the time. But she is a flipper just like her dad and every bit as vindictive as her Russian mother.
But good to see you and CarolMR too.

katie8753 said...

Carol said: And if Charlie talked, who would believe him now?

That's a good point Carol. Not only can you not believe him, he talks in such a stupid way we wouldn't know what he was saying without a translator. LOL.

katie8753 said...

Leary I thought you liked her. What did she say about you? Can you elaborate?

jeffrey jeff said...

Thanks Leary!
I will shoot you an e-mail.
Yeah, back in the seventies I started to get into the "progressive country movement" (Emmylou, Waylon, Townes, etc). But my favorite was Jerry Jeff (still is). My friends who were only into Rock were irritated with my conversion. My name is Jeff, so as a way to tease me about it, they made up the nickname Jeffreyjeff. I kinda liked it so I kept it!

CarolMR said...

Thanks, Leary!

MrPoirot said...

I never understood why people doubted whether LHO could have been the lone gunman. One of the biggest lies I saw was about how the WW2 Italian Army rifle was not very good.
All military rifles are very accurate or the military would not have bought millions of them.
You can still by the same clunky looking Carcano rifle today for $200 or less.

I got to shoot one last year at a gun range. Having never seen a Carcano before I took three shots from a standing position and all three shots hit a paper plate posted at 100 yds. This rifle had iron sights; no riflescope like Oswald had. I consider myself an average or slightly below average shot.
I'm sure that if I had a platform to steady a scoped Carcano rifle I could hit a moving paper plate 2 outta 3 times at 120 yds all day long.

katie8753 said...

Jeffrey said: But one of the craziest of them all is that a 23 year old loser shot the President of the United States with a $20 rifle on his lunch break.

Amen Jeffrey. Amen.

MrPoirot said...

In a college history course in 1978 a professor told the class that a century from now, historians will point at the assassination of JFK as the beginning of the America's
decline.

I didn't believe him at the time but I do now.
If you consider just what went on under LBJ and nothing else: the escalation of the war and the resulting mass denunciation of anything American by anyone of draft age it now seems obvious. The loss of JFK resulted in LBJ becoming president. LBJ was a world away from JFK's politics and not nearly as wise. LBJ was a disaster. The democrats try to never talk about him today. Without LBJ you have no war, no hippiedom, no summer of love and consequently no Manson murders because without the cloak of hippiedom for Charlie to use he would have had to become a just a pimp again instead of a guru.

LHO may be singlehandedly responsible for destroying the USA. I see nothing going on now that can stop America's rapidly approaching demise that started in 1963.

Charlie ended the 60s and LHO ended America.

jeffrey jeff said...

You make some good points, Mr P. I have often wondered the same thing. What would our country be like if JFK had served a second term instead of LBJ? And if RFK had not been assassinated it is possible he would have been in office from 68-76, taking Nixon and Ford out of the picture. A lot less Vietnam dead for one thing.
I know the Kennedy boys weren't angels, but damn the restraint and wisdom that JFK showed when faced with the Cuban Missile Crisis should have set an example for all future Presidents. I can think of one who could have used some restraint and wisdom when his advisors were all pushing for him to go to war.

leary7 said...

two scrawny, egotistical sociopaths...and look at the damage they did. mind blowing, really. Dead on, Mr P.

you can't rule out other factors, given Oswald's actions and associations prior to 11/22. And you can't totally dismiss Manson having had a hidden agenda. But it's been a half century for one and nearly for the other and nothing solid to hang your hat on in order to reject the accepted conclusions. I wish we could, I suspect we all do because it is just to much to accept that these two insignificant scumbags could alone have altered the world as much as they did.

MrPoirot said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MrPoirot said...

Leary I have always been amazed that Marina was not imprisoned after the assassination. She appeared to be playing helpless, coy and afraid when it is more likely she is a streetwise Russian female born into a black market society where shadyness is the only way to survive. She is most likely every bit as subversive as Lee was.
Last week she sold the wedding band Lee gave her for $100K at auction.

beauders said...

On the night of the LaBianca murders Tex, LuLu, and Krenwinkel sat in the bushes, the sat at a bench at a bus stop, then hitchhiked to Spahn.

leary7 said...

thanks Beauders, I thought I had read about the bench at the bus stop. So they never actually took a bus, right?

yeah Mr P., Marina is a piece of work. I once straight out asked her this and got the coldest stare you can imagine. I asked her why, if she knew Lee's rifle was in the garage in Irving, why did she allow him to hide it there when he wasn't living at the house and the house owners, Michael and Ruth Paine were devout Quakers and if they discovered it would certainly have insisted on it being discarded, would most likely have banned Lee from any more visits and might have kicked Marina out as well.
Additionally, Marina knew Lee had used the rifle to shoot at Gen Walker. And the FBI had been out to the house twice. What if they insisted on a look around. Any thing like that and her Russian ass would have been sent packing. She wanted to stay in America. She wanted to divorce Lee. So why take all the risk of stashing his rifle for him when she knew if discovered it would have grave consequences.
Of course, I got no answer. You know, there is actually a small book called "Mrs. Paine's Garage".
Also, the house and garage have been restored to 1963 time and opened as a museum by the city of Irving. Strange.

MrPoirot said...

Leary in Russia back in the 60s you do not tell anyone anything you know.
Ruth Paine was a commie too. Her hubby had a Trotsky beard.
I get the feeling that Ruth was a homewrecker. She talked Marina into dropping Lee which made him even more desperate. That entire menagerie of Oswalds and Paines were subversives. What kind of person in 1963 America would be learning Russian?
I also think Marina knew English better than she let on.

leary7 said...

my point was Mr P that Marina always had a strong sense of self preservation and letting Lee keep the rifle that had been used to shoot at Gen Walker in the garage where it could easily have been discovered by either the Paines or the FBI was a huge risk on her part. She wasn't stupid. And Lee kept his handgun at the rooming house where he lived in Dallas, so why not keep the rifle there too? It's just one of a thousand things in the JFK story that make no sense.
respectfully, I don't agree with your assessment of Ruth Paine. I've met her and have always believed she was a genuinely peaceful and decent person. Quirky, yeah, but harmless.

Vince and Charlie discussing the JFK assassination would be an interesting dialogue. Maybe with Jon Stewart as the moderator.

MrPoirot said...

Leary you can keep a snubby anywhere. A big rifle doesn't travel well.
If Ruth is learning Russian from Marina and Ruth's hubby has a beard EXACTLY like Trotsky's beard does that imply anything?
Gary Hinman was harmless and he was acommie. Most communist are harmless, especially in the USA. It's the politicians these harmless communists vote for who are dangerous.

MrPoirot said...

Leary from listening to Ruth talk about Marina and Lee I got the impression she was telling Marina her negative feelings about Lee and that Marina could do better than him. Ruth did not help that marriage any at all. Thus I say she was a homewrecker.
Also, the fact that the Paines knew the Oswalds were communists and didn't object speaks volumes. I would have imprisoned the Paines with Marina at Gitmo.

leary7 said...

good points Mr P.
and to torture them I would have put Lee's mother Margurite in there with em. What a deranged and despicable looney she was.

MrPoirot said...

Leary I found it funny that Marina says she is certain her phone is tapped. Hell, whose phone isn't tapped? You're in America now Marina. Get used to it! Doesn't she read the papers? People are escaping to Russia for freedom now.

MrPoirot said...

Leary there is quite a lot written about LHO's fascination with the Rosenberg spy ring and his affair with Ella German, the pretty Russian jew and also LHO's mother took him to live in the Bronx plus LHO's belief in the jewish ideology of Marxism and defection to USSR yet it is denied that Oswald's ancestry was jewish but it's never mentioned what his ancestry was.
Could Marguerite have told Lee that he was jewish? This would account for LHO's confused life. He seemed a man without a country.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Interesting conversation.
It's good to see everyone.
Thanks for your participation!

I apologize for being MIA the last couple weeks.
I've been very busy.
I'm hoping that my life will return to semi-normal fairly soon.
Thanks to everyone, for their continued help and interest in the meantime.

Katie is basically steering the ship, right now.
If you have any questions, comments, or concerns, hit her up.

She can be found here, or on her own "just for fun" website called "Katie's blog about nothing".
Her website provides laidback humor and conversation on a wide range of topics.

Check it out, here:
http://blogaboutnothing7.blogspot.com/

I'm sure you'll see some familiar bloggers.

You guys/gals ROCK!

beauders said...

No they didn't ride a bus to Spahn, just sat at a bus stop bench for a while.

fiona1933 said...

I would have given good money to read a book by Vincent explaining how he would have defended Manson. Because Bugliosi was able to get another girl who was absolutely apparently bang-to-rights murderess acquitted. (And The Sea Will Tell). And he did that by recasting her actions for the jury so they would get a totally different slant. It worked.
Could he have done that for Manson? Could he have cast Manson as the bewildered servant of a bunch of ruthless blood-thirsty teens?I reckon he could. He could have played up the hippy…stuck it all on Tex and Atkins..I bet he could have set the man free. He's such a persuader, Old Vince.

MrPoirot said...

fiona1933 said...
I would have given good money to read a book by Vincent explaining how he would have defended Manson. Because Bugliosi was able to get another girl who was absolutely apparently bang-to-rights murderess acquitted. (And The Sea Will Tell). And he did that by recasting her actions for the jury so they would get a totally different slant. It worked.
Could he have done that for Manson? Could he have cast Manson as the bewildered servant of a bunch of ruthless blood-thirsty teens?I reckon he could. He could have played up the hippy…stuck it all on Tex and Atkins..I bet he could have set the man free. He's such a persuader, Old Vince. (end quote)

Poirot replies:

Good one Fiona! I'd love to see Vince and Charlie sitting side by side on Larry King with Vince exclaiming how Charlie wasn't cut out of the same deer skin as the others.