Thursday, October 31, 2013

Bobby Beausoleil has a New Website

It's much different than the old one that Barbara ran. There are lots of new photos, at least new to me - some I've never seen before.

It also has all his music that you can listen to for free.... the entire track, including the ones from The Orkustra...

The other day someone asked about his "eye patch" photo - he explains this on his website:

"Eventually, in mid-1973, I found myself in the prison infirmary with a broken hand, my jaw broken in five places, and one of my eyes covered by an eye patch as a result of nerve damage caused by a busted cheek bone."

They are also offering one original artwork for $700.00 - not a print, an original...


102 comments:

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thanks for the update Kimchi!

sunset77 said...

That's a great post, thanx. I've just been reading on that site for about an hour, very interesting.

MrPoirot said...

After reading a good bit of Bobby Beausoleil's musings I get the impression that he considers himself a music innovator that has changed the face of music in the world today. However it is Bobby's robbery and murder of Gary Hinman which then led to the Tate Labianca killings which transformed the swinging 60s that he is more commonly associated with. Bobby seems to start things.

Manson and Beausoleil both frequently mention a bad element that came to the Haight and quickly shut it down but neither of them seem to realize they were leading members of this bad element. The 60s would have turned out much better without these two antisocial, narcissistic, nomadic fuckups.

louis365 said...

I'm not so sure that things started to come down after Bobby et al did in Hinman. I tend to think that things started to come down after Manson shot, and thought he killed, Lotsapoppa.

MrPoirot said...

Yea he flipped out big time at the Crowe shooting didn't he?
Charlie blames Tex's drug burns for bringing down the Family.
Beausoleil would have been my last pic as someone who would kill.

MrPoirot said...

Louis have you read any of Beausoleil's website? There is a lot of negative stuff on Hinman. The site calls him an armchair communist, drug dealer etc. I think Bobby is bitter towards Hinman.

Josh Bratt said...

I think he's bitter towards being in jail with so much misinformation when people who have done far worse have been released after far less time. How many of those death row guys from the early 70's are still in jail.

william marshall said...

I could not find anything on Hinman on the new website The introduction says he won't be discussing anything about the crime ?

william marshall said...

The introduction says he won't be discussing the crime Tried typing in Gunman it said no results

DebS said...

It's there William, in a piece by Michael Moynihan. Click on Blotter.

Definitely not a wise choice to put that on the site if Bobby expects to ever get paroled. He really is pretty arrogant and given narcissism though.

Kimchi said...

William - as Deb said, it's in the "Blotter" section...however, I think it was a piece written by Dennis Dread...

It's under "Hymns from the Solar Temple"

I agree Deb, not a wise choice!

sunset77 said...

Bobby Beausoliel was arrested on Wednesday, August 6, 1969. I'm not sure exactly when or where Manson heard about the arrest. I think Atkins said he hid in the woods when he found out. Manson's paranoia made have led him to conclude the first thing Beausoliel did, was tell the police he (Manson) was responsible for Hinman's murder, Manson was apparently present at some point in the proceedings.

There is speculation the attack at Cielo was to do a copycat crime to free Bobby from jail. It's also possible Manson didn't give a rats ass about Bobby, he just didn't want him in jail snitching to the police, implicating him (Manson) in the Hinman murder, that might be why he wanted Bobby out of jail.

I'd estimate the attack at Cielo was launched from Spahn at around 10 or 11 p.m. on Friday, Aug 8, 1969. That would be approximately 48 hours after Beausoliel's arrest. For all Manson knew, there may have been police cars screaming to Spahn at any second. Manson may have decided to "lash out" while he still had the opportunity.

Beausoliel has changed his story a number of times. Wikipedia says there was no mention of a bad drug deal in either of Beausoliel's 2 murder trials, he didn't mention that until a Oui magazine article in 1981. Somehow I doubt Beausoliel wrote those negative things about Hinman on this new site, but stranger things have happened in this case.

MrPoirot said...

Bobby's website tells at least twice the Hinman bad mescaline story. Once by Bobby and once by Moynihan.
All the trouble began from bad drug deals; drug burns. Tex burned Crowe and Hinman burned Bobby.

Dooger said...

"The 60s would have turned out much better without these two antisocial, narcissistic, nomadic fuckups."

The 60s were the 60s, and would be the 60s with or without these people. A lot worse things happened in the 60s than what these people were connected.

starship said...

Was BB really stupid enough to be driving the car of the victim he murdered and still have the murder weapon hidden inside the wheel well of said vehicle?

I've often thought perhaps CM had something to do with that little bit.

katie8753 said...

Sunset said: Beausoliel has changed his story a number of times. Wikipedia says there was no mention of a bad drug deal in either of Beausoliel's 2 murder trials, he didn't mention that until a Oui magazine article in 1981. Somehow I doubt Beausoliel wrote those negative things about Hinman on this new site, but stranger things have happened in this case.

This is true Sunset. Bobby has changed his story many times. I personally don't think there was a drug exchange between Bobby & Gary. I don't think Gary manufactured drugs. I think Bobby just wanted Gary's money.

Charlie was told by Ella Jo that Gary inherited money. Charlie wanted it. He asked Gary to move in with the family at Spahn's Ranch and Gary declined, saying he had his own house and life and wasn't interested. Charlie did that because he knew he could get Gary's money that way.

It's interesting in reading on Cielodrive.com that Mary recounts that she and Sadie went to Gary's door and were told by Bobby to see if anyone else was in the home, and if Gary was alone, they were to give a signal by lighting a cigarette. Then Bobby would know it was okay if he entered the home.

This shows that Bobby knew that Gary was reticent to let him in.

And Bobby's calling Charlie after a day or so of trying to get Gary's money, being unsuccessful and asking further advice, proves to me that Charlie knew that Bobby was there for that purpose.

Why Bobby killed Gary is unknown. I personally think that he was scared that he would get in trouble for holding him hostage and basically torturing him for days. I don't think that Charlie ordered him to do so.

katie8753 said...

Also, if Beausoliel didn't write those negative things about Hinman on his website and someone else did, surely Beausoliel knows what's on his website. If not, he needs to be.

As Deb and Kimchi pointed out, not good for future parole hearings to blame the victim.

Starship said: Was BB really stupid enough to be driving the car of the victim he murdered and still have the murder weapon hidden inside the wheel well of said vehicle?

I've often thought perhaps CM had something to do with that little bit.


Starship, I think that was all Bobby. Why? Maybe he thought if he had control of the murder weapon and car that he could get away with it.

Someone else made a comment (sorry I can't remember who) that Charlie was more upset at Bobby getting arrested because he might "snitch" than just being concerned about Bobby's well-being.

I don't think Charlie would plant evidence on Bobby that would lead to his arrest.

Again, this is all just my opinion. :)

Doc Sierra said...

I think that the car and the weapon were all Bobby. He was not a very experienced criminal. In 1969 they didn't have TV shows like Cold Case Files and CSI so he probably knew nothing about murder investigations.....

MrPoirot said...

Doc all the early perry mason tv shows picture the same LA county court house that Bobby was tried in. Every episode uses the same court house of Bobby's conviction as the fictional location of all the perry mason trials.

sunset77 said...

Off topic comment:

Apparently, Lee Harvey Oswald's wedding ring is going to be auctioned:

"Bobby Livingston, an executive vice president with the New Hampshire-based auction house, RR Auction, described the ring, which has a tiny hammer and sickle engraved on the inside of the band, as a "very powerful, significant piece of evidence."

"It gives you such insight into the mind of Lee Harvey Oswald," said Livingston, who added that the ring could bring $100,000 or more."

AP story HERE.

Panamint Patty said...

That last photo is from "My Demon Brother" by Kenneth Anger. You can get a DVD with a bunch of his short films on it from Netflix if you are still getting plastic in the mail (not streamable). Hell, its probably up on some pirate site too.

katie8753 said...

That last photo makes it look like Bobby has a woman boobie. LOL.

Sunset, that's interesting about Oswald's ring....

MrPoirot said...

There is a film of Oswald on a city street being asked if he were communist and he replies "no" but he very much was communist in every conceivable idealogical aspect. This was why he murdered America's most popular president. But he denied doing that too.

beauders said...

Went over to Beausoliel's site. I am not impressed. It's just Bobby being his own fan.

beauders said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hey Beauders.
Good to see you.

william marshall said...

Thanks for the info everyone since I have no interest in His music only the case I'll go back and try what you told me Peace

louis365 said...

MrPoirot said...
Louis have you read any of Beausoleil's website? There is a lot of negative stuff on Hinman. The site calls him an armchair communist, drug dealer etc. I think Bobby is bitter towards Hinman.

Yes, Mr. P., I have read some of Bobby's writings and another person who visited him. Thats where I seen
those negative things wrote about Hinman. He left out the significant part about how Hinman had been a
good friend to Bobby. With friends like Bobby, who needs enemies?

Bobby stands, out as compared to the other males in The Family. He had, before meeting Manson, started to
get his own group of women together. Van Houten, and I think Gypsy, are ones who came with him into The
Family. Share was a major score for Manson, she was good at getting him new recruits, and her wild nature
fight right in with Manson's attitude.

But I have always found Cupid to be a very sadistic type. Manson probably liked him quite well.

As for Bobby feeling bitter towards Hinman, It's Manson that he should feel bitter towards.
Since it seems, Bobby had things straightened away, until Manson shows up and all hell breaks loose.

MrPoirot said...

Howdy Louis
Manson didn't help matters no doubt by introducing bloodletting. But if Hinman had no money then he had no money. Gun, knife or sword Hinman had no money in the house. Charlie, being a man of principal, condemned Hinman to death and then walked out Hinman's home.

I still think that Bobby killed Hinman over bad mescaline not inheritance. The inheritance money was Charlie's goal. The bad mescaline money was Bobby's goal. It was Bobby, not Charlie who killed Hinman.

Hinman had developed his own recipe for mescaline which eliminated two steps from the manufacturing process. This shortcut ended up costing Hinman his life.

Panamint Patty said...

Poirot, if you don't mind, where did you read that stuff about Gary streamlining the cook? This is one of Patty's pet theories, dontcha know.

katie8753 said...

Mr. P, if Gary was making mescaline, please post proof, other than Bobby saying so, because he seems to be the only one who is saying it.

Cielodrive.Com said...

Patty, that was in Sanders' book

katie8753 said...

As Louis pointed out, Gary was a good friend, not only to Bobby, but to Mary.

Why call him an "armchair communist"?

This guy had an open door policy to anyone who needed a place to crash for a while. He allowed anyone with a temporary cash flow problem to stay with him until he/she got back on his/her feet.

And he kept Mary's baby Pooh Bear when she got arrested so he wouldn't go into the system and so she could get him back.

He was a friend to them. And they took turns smothering him.

What are friends for?

MrPoirot said...

The Family already were over $600 in arrears to Hinman from previous drug deals.

beauders said...

Hinman making drugs and deleting two ingredients was claimed originally by Ed Sanders in The Family. What we need to remember is that Sanders heard rumors then presented them as facts.

MrPoirot said...

Beauders are you trying to claim that every word in Sander's book is total fabrication?

Why is Bobby copying Sander's for an alibi/motive?

Why do people claim that because Bobby didn't claim that he killed Hinman over bad mescaline in his trials neglect to say that Bobby didn't mention the inheritance either?

Why do people claim Hinman never delt drugs? Drugs are the way the Family meets people. Hinman was part of the 60s drug culture as much as any other hippie. Anyone who let Manson Family members live at their home was heavily immersed into drugs far more than just casual usage. The Manson/TLB saga is a story of the 60s drug culture boiling over into a catastrophe that changed the course of American history.

So Charlie had Gary kill Bobby over a $20K inheritance that never occurred and Gary never had anything to do with drugs? Hmmm...sounds unlikely.

Here is something more likely:
Bobby killed Gary because he couldn't get the money to return to the Straight Satans so he split town before he even changed clothes.

MrPoirot said...

I'm all for having my mind changed but Beausoliel himself has repeated many times in the last 35 years that he went to Gary's house over bad mescaline. That article by Capote in the early eighties was a big deal when it came out. That was the first I heard of any reason for Gary's murder.

But to read again in 2013 again Beausoliel say he killed over bad mescaline; that carries more weight than any witness.

But mainly: nobody ever went up to the Manson girl who said she is the one who started the inheritance rumor. Why didn't she catch hell for bad info that got Bonby busted for murder.

After all: both murder motives can be documented and both have holes.

sbuch113 said...

It seems the entire group, Family, whatever you want to call them had devolved into total madness.
They had literally become savages.
My opinion.....Manson was a one man crime wave, he washed over those who knew him well.
Manson and his "friends" begged, borrowed and stole to survive.
Until begging and borrowing didn't work anymore.......crime became their way of life.
Manson used his learned bullshit to instigate an escalating plunder.

Seems these nuts were shaking Hinman down and planned on killing him all along......just as soon as they got what they wanted.
Whatever that was they either got it....or not....but carried out with the rest of the plan.

sbuch113 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Panamint Patty said...

mescaline is closely chemically related to MDA which is a combination hallucinogen and amphetamine. In fact in the 60s, MDA, DOM/STP, DMT and other drugs in the cluster were collectively called synthetic mescaline. The methamphetamine angle is interesting too because Sadie and Tex were full of it that night. All of these chemicals are synthesized from the same starting materials. Patty is trying to determine if Gary had any contact with Sasha Shulgin while at UCLA? Shulgin is still alive but pretty senile at this point from having done so many experiments on himself.

MrPoirot said...

Why would Bobby continuously make the same false claim of bad mescaline over a period of decades? Was he trying to cover up the fact that he murdered a man over a rumor that turned out to be completely false? Was he embarrassed at being suckered into murder by Charlie? Was this too much for him to accept so he fabricates the bad mescaline story?

Why would the key witnesses to the Hinman murder all basically state the same story of a $20K-$30K inheritance windfall? They all maintained their testimony over the years.

Yet here is Beausoleil and his desire to get paroled out and go live with his wife whom he desperately loves. What good did it do him to tell some people he murdered for inheritance while at the same time tell other people he killed over mescaline?

Both motives are quite detailed.

Reminds me of the story today in DailyMail about Hitler and Eva escaping Berlin to live in Argentina. I've heard that Argentina story since before Hinman was murdered. Yet there is reliable evidence Hitler died in his bunker.

Perhaps history will always be half lie, half truth, at best.

Panamint Patty said...

Say hypothetically, Bobby wasnt lying about the drugs and it turns out theres proof. Where does that leave him?

And why does the LAPD get to listen to the tapes but not keep them? Do the feds have it?

Cielodrive.Com said...

What tapes?

Panamint Patty said...

The Tex tapes

katie8753 said...

Mr. P said: Yet here is Beausoleil and his desire to get paroled out and go live with his wife whom he desperately loves. What good did it do him to tell some people he murdered for inheritance while at the same time tell other people he killed over mescaline?

Mr. P, I think his wife divorced him. I don't know for sure, because I don't pay any attention to him.

One question: If the motive for going to Gary's house was to get money for "bad mescaline", why didn't Bobby mention that to Susan or Mary? They didn't seem to know about it.

beauders said...

Actually Beausoleil's wife divorced him and then died this year.

beauders said...

About Sanders yes we can believe some of what he wrote, but the trick is figuring out what was truth, what was exaggeration, and what was rumor presented as fact.

Cielodrive.Com said...

Patty, LAPD and LADA have those tapes. They are keeping those

MrPoirot said...

Katie said:
One question: If the motive for going to Gary's house was to get money for "bad mescaline", why didn't Bobby mention that to Susan or Mary? They didn't seem to know about it

Poirot replies:

Yes that is compelling evidence for the inheritance motive.
Why would Bobby maintain in public in print for 32 years until this very day that he killed over bad mescaline. There is compelling evidence for both motives.
I read once that the Family was $686 in arrears to Hinman from previous drug deals. This is odd that such a specific detail would be prevaricated by a witness with no reason to invent for either motive.

Question back to Katie:
Why can't both motives be true?

La-de-la said...

Poirot replies:

Why would Bobby maintain in public in print for 32 years until this very day that he killed over bad mescaline.

-------------------------------

Because implicating Gary in a crime 'lessens' Bobby's culpability in his own twisted, lying mind.

La-de-la said...

Beauders,

Have you ever come across any evidence that Gary was making/dealing drugs?

katie8753 said...

Mr. P said: I read once that the Family was $686 in arrears to Hinman from previous drug deals. This is odd that such a specific detail would be prevaricated by a witness with no reason to invent for either motive.

Who said that?

Question back to Katie:
Why can't both motives be true?


I guess they can both be true, but it seems unlikely. If Bobby had said to Gary at anytime when they were holding Gary captive "Gary, I need the money back for that mescaline because it was bad", don't you think Mary or Susan would have heard him say that?

MrPoirot said...

Katie they didn't discuss inheritance money either at Gary's house. They just discussed money.

If the bad mescaline story were false that lie would have fallen by the wayside. Lies never can stand the test of time. 32 years is a long time for a lie to hang around.

It is Decarlo and Mary who said Gary was killed over inheritance. They aren't the ones who killed Gary. It is Bobby who stabbed Gary and he keeps saying he killed Gary over mescaline.

Was it Yeller who has said that she regretted telling Charlie about the inheritance money Gary never had? The reason they murdered Gary was bogus.

The Hinman murder is really very similar to the Shorty Shea murder. At least six Family members were sitting around talking shit about Shorty; angry at him for ratting them out. Their rage reached a group crescendo so a bunch of them went after Shorty and beat him to death.
Only it is likely that it wasn't Shorty who ratted, it was Retz. There reason for murder was bogus.

bobby said...

one thing about Sanders that I consider is that he did his research & got all his rumors & gossip first hand & right during the trial. It has to count for something that his info is so close to the events compared to how memories & stories change over time.

katie8753 said...

Mr. P, this is what Mary said:

Then Bobby came up and we just talked for awhile and then Bobby told Gary that we needed some money

That doesn't sound like Bobby was asking Gary for money back for bad drugs. It just sounds like they're fishing for money.

beauders said...

I've never come across any evidence that Hinman was murdered over drugs. I think Manson was after an inheritance that didn't exist.

katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...

Not only did Bobby surreptitiously take Gary's 2 vehicles, he also helped himself to Gary's Bagpipes.

What's he gonna do with those? Nothing. They were thrown in a heap.

Then, to make a misery out of worry, Bobby went back to Gary's house and related to others at the ranch that "the maggots were eating Gary and he could hear them". And he laughed.

What a friend Bobby was to Gary indeed.

katie8753 said...

Sorry I had to delete my previous comment. I had a typo. LOL.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Beauders! I agree!

MrPoirot said...

Keep in mind that Ed Sanders was aware of Mary's 1970 statement about Gary having just been left a large inheritance yet he felt confidant writing in his 1971 book "The Family" that Bobby killed Gary over bad mescaline.
Trying to discredit Sander's work as rumor and hearsay is nothing but sour grapes.
Saying there is no evidence that Gary mfd drugs is a good example of ignoring the obvious.

Cielodrive.Com said...

Sorry, what is the evidence?

MrPoirot said...

Sander's book mentions the bad mescaline in 1971.
There is another book that says the Family was in arrears to Gary for nearly $700. Sorry, I cant remember which book.
The killer himself has said for 32 years he killed Gary over bad mescaline.

But no there is no Sears-Roebuck chemistry set enscribed "Gary's Mescaline Makin' Kit".

MrPoirot said...

Cielo there is as much "evidence" for the inheritance motive as there is for the mescaline motive which is why I asked earlier why nobody suspects both motives were integral in Gary's murder.

Cielodrive.Com said...

I don't consider that evidence

MrPoirot said...

Ciielo anybody can make flippant remarks like that.

MrPoirot said...

This is from Oui magazine 1981 pasted from Bardachreports.com

[Quote]ALB: Why did you go to Gary Hinman's home on July 25th, 1969?

BB: I didn't go there with the intention of killing Gary. If I was going to kill him, I wouldn't have taken the girls (Mary Brunner and Susan Atkins). I was going there for one purpose only, which was to collect $1000 that I had already turned over to him, that didn't belong to me.

ALB: When had you given him the $1000?

BB: The night before.

ALB: You paid Hinman $1000 for 1000 tabs of mescaline and then returned to the Spahn Ranch?

BB: Right. The whole transaction with the Straight Satans motorcycle club took place at Spahn's Ranch. There were a few Satan Slavers hanging out there as well. The Straight Satans took the mescaline back to the motorcycle club at Venice where they were intending to party. They were really mad about it.

ALB: How did you know that it was strychnine instead of mescaline in such a short time? If you didn't try the drug yourself, how could you be certain that it was bogus or poison?

BB: I don't think that those guys would have lied to me. They wouldn't have been that mad.

ALB: How long had you and Hinman been doing these transactions?

BB: Very rarely. I just happened to know that he had something. I was trying to be a nice guy, trying to be in with the fellows, trying to impress somebody.

AB: Impress the bikers?

BB: They represented to me an element of freedom in America. On the road, and in their lifestyle, the freedom that they express with each other. I felt so desperate in this situation, being put in a cross with the motorcycle club. Naturally, they are going to be mad at me—not at him. They didn't even know him. I'm the one who took their money and brought back this mescaline, supposed mescaline. I'm in a helluva bind. If I don't give them something, who knows about their plans.

ALB: Why did you bring Susan Atkins and Mary Brunner to the Hinman house?

BB: Because they were friends of Gary Hinman. Mary Brunner was close to him because she stayed with him for a while. She was as close as anybody could be with him. The girls didn't even know what was going on. They just wanted to go party and see him. No one was going there with any intention of killing Gary Hinman.

ALB: In neither of your two trials, nor in Ed Sanders' or Bugliosi's books, is there any mention of the Hinman murder stemming from a drug burn.

BB: I never testified about it. I never told anybody. I didn't know how to deal with it. What happened to me that day was the culmination of a whole lot of pressures that had been on me for several years.

ALB: Alright. You arrived at Hinman's and asked for your money back?

BB: I demanded it. I wasn't going to take no for an answer. I had a motorcycle band on my back

MrPoirot said...

[quote]1981 By A. L. Bardach


It was July 25th, 1969, and the merciless summer sun beat down on the dusty eastern suburbs of Los Angeles. When Bobby Beausoleil, a slim, handsome 21year old musician, finally hit the Pacific Coast Highway, he was tempted to stop for a swim. But Beausoleil had more important business to attend to. His destination that afternoon was the rustic hippie enclave of Topanga Canyon just south of Malibu, and the home of Gary Hinman.



Beausoleil had spent the previous evening with his friend Charlie Manson at Manson's desert spread, the Spahn Ranch. It was at the ranch that Beausoleil claims he delivered 1000 tabs of Hin­man's home-manufactured mescaline to Manson's buddy, Danny DeCarlo, who also served as club treasurer for the motorcycle gang, the Straight Satans. Several hours later, according to Beau­soleil, the bikers reported back that the substance was actually strychnine and demanded their money returned, pronto.



Beausoleil said he decided to confront Hinman and demand the money back the next day. While preparing to leave, two of Manson's girlfriends asked Beausoleil if they could come along for the ride because "they liked Gary Hinman." Their names were Mary Brunner and Susan "Sadie" Atkins.


Gary Hinman, had been a hippie renaissance figure in the '60s: a Ph.D. candidate in Sociology at U.C.L.A., a political activist, Zen Buddhist devotee, a musician, a piano teacher, and a drug dealer with a mescaline factory tucked away in his basement. [end quote]

Poirot:
This same story has been repeated many times since Hinman's murder.
Read Beausoleil's new website on this thread. There are two more quotes of the same story on why Bobby killed Hinman.

Cielodrive.Com said...

I'm aware of the interview. However, I put no stock into anything that Beausoleil has to say that can’t be corroborated. The only others, that I’ve found, to back this Gary Hinman drug manufacturing story, are Charles Manson and Ed Sanders.

I find Charles Manson to be slightly more credible than Beausoleil, but not by much.

And I am, and will always be a big fan of Ed Sanders’ “The Family.” But there are issues with that book and I find it be extremely dubious.

If I ever found anything to support Beausoleil’s story, I’d point it out. But I never have, and I’ve looked. Nothing in any of the police reports. Nothing in any of the witness interviews. Nothing in either of his trials.

You seemed to have put some weight on the fact Beausoleil has maintained this version for several decades. During that time he has had numerous parole hearings. Yet, to my knowledge, he has never produced anything beyond his own words, to support this account.

In his most recent version, Bobby has himself buying the drugs on Friday night and returning the following day. This is a significant alteration to the story because it greatly reduces the time Gary was held hostage. This is not consistent with any other account, including his own previous ones.

He’s also included Danny DeCarlo in the planning and in the car with them as they go to Hinman’s house. Again, neither Mary Brunner, Susan Atkins, Bruce Davis, or to my knowledge, Charles Manson, ever say this.

Beausoleil also states that Gary’s VW was given to the Straight Satans as a repayment for bad Mescaline. Again there is no evidence of this. The only thing we do know is that Charles Manson gave Gary’s VW to Mark Arneson and he in turn sold it. I asked the gentleman who bought the van from Arneson, if Mark was a member of the Straight Satans and he told me, to his knowledge, he was not.

Beausoleil has a very long track record of lying. How anyone can put faith into what he has to say is beyond me.

MrPoirot said...

I hear ya loudnclear Cielo. I see Beausoleil as a liar too. The problem with Bobby's mescaline story is that liars drop stories entirely and invent new lies. That is the psychopathy of the pathological liar: they continuously spew new lies. Jodi Arias kept doing that. Her lies only lasted months before new lies replaced old lies.
Bobby has kept the basic storyline for decades.

MrPoirot said...

Cielo you used Beausoleil's variation on the mescaline story as proof of him lying. Bobby brings Decarlo into the murder. Still the same basic message is being transmitted once again: Gary sold bad drugs to Bobby.


I think at some point just prior to the murder Gary sold some crappy drugs to Bobby who then sold them to the SS's. By ignoring the bad drug story you are ignoring one of the chief factors into identifying truth: that is, a story that continues to hang around year after year and won't go away. This is a tipoff that you should begin to suspect that you are in the proximity of a true story.























MrPoirot said...

Cielo what I just said doesn't eliminate the inheritance story. I know for damn sure that Mary and Sadie were in on Gary's murder because of the inheritance rumor. So see? A story that won't go away. This is a tipoff that there is truth nearby. The inheritance rumor though false, still attracted Mary and Sadie into helping kill Gary.

Just like the Tate murders; you have multiple murderers present each with a different motives.

katie8753 said...

Mr. P, the only reason Jodi Arias dropped the "Ninja" story about Travis' murder was because her attorneys told her to. She was spouting that same story for years. She did several interviews with the "Ninja" story. But her attorneys invented a new story.

"Self Defense". That's why she changed her story. Because they told her to.

Bobby can lie about the drug story all he wants. There's no proof of it at all.

One of these days he's going to wake up and realize that the only way he's getting out (cough) is if he tells the truth.

And the truth is that Ella Jo told Charlie that Gary inherited money. Charlie asked her to go get it. She said no.

Enter Bobby. Why did he kill Gary? Why did Mary & Susan participate?

The only thing I can come up with is that Bobby wanted Gary dead because he was afraid of retribution, and Mary & Susan did what they were told. Automatons that they were.

katie8753 said...

Look at Casey Anthony. She held out with the "Zanny the Nanny" story for years, until that blew out like an old bald tire.

Then when her trial started, she came up with a new story. The baby drowned in the swimming pool and her Daddy molested her.

Don't even start with lies that defendants put forth. They're meaningless....

katie8753 said...

In fact, it was Casey's scumbag attorneys that advised her to say her Daddy molested her. That's why she changed her story.

MrPoirot said...

Katie if Casey and Jodi's story changed then their stories changed. It doesn't matter why they changed. Truth tends to remain but lies tend to change. I am not discussing some advanced new scientific theory of truth detecting. Every cop in the world knows that lies don't hold steady to the test of time.

Kimchi said...

Hi Cielodrive -

Great to see you here commenting...

Cielo said:

"If I ever found anything to support Beausoleil’s story, I’d point it out. But I never have, and I’ve looked. Nothing in any of the police reports. Nothing in any of the witness interviews. Nothing in either of his trials."

Are you familiar with the LASD report of 5/2/68?

One year and 3 months before the Hinman murder, this is what was stated:

"Suspect Good was again shown evidence held item #1, #2, #3 and #4 and asked if it was hers, suspect stated, no, never saw it before. When asked if she smoke marijuana suspect stated, yes, but I don't like it. When asked where she got the capsules, suspect stated from Gary Hinman in Topanga."

I have the report. If you all are interested and want to discuss, I will make a new thread.

katie8753 said...

Kimchi said:

"Suspect Good was again shown evidence held item #1, #2, #3 and #4 and asked if it was hers, suspect stated, no, never saw it before. When asked if she smoke marijuana suspect stated, yes, but I don't like it. When asked where she got the capsules, suspect stated from Gary Hinman in Topanga."


When asked if it was hers, she said no. When asked where she got them, she said Gary Hinman.

Kimchi, which is it????

What was in the capsules? And how do you know that Gary made the capsules?

katie8753 said...

Mr P said: Katie if Casey and Jodi's story changed then their stories changed. It doesn't matter why they changed.

Bobby's story has changed many times.

MrPoirot said...

An extremely effective interrogation technique is to ask the same person the same question 2, 3 or more times in order to see if the subject's answer change. This is the same principle as truth remains but lies go away.

Kimchi said...

Katie, you'd have to see the police report to understand it...

There were 6 items (drugs) or evidence found....

All of them denied having knowledge of said "evidence"...

Kind of like "no, it's not mine, never seen it before" type thing.

I'm just saying, this was in May of 1968 - and Hinman's name was brought up during a drug bust...

No, he wasn't there, but his name was mentioned...

MrPoirot said...

Katie that is a weird thing you just posted. Bobby's basic story has not changed. He has maintained a story about a drug sale in 1973 and it is an extremely similar story to what he said in 2013. I'll be happy to post his 1973 and 2013 story again if you like..

katie8753 said...

Thanks, Kimchi. If you wouldn't mind, please post the report. I'd like to see it. Thanks! :)

katie8753 said...

Mr. P, Bobby started out with the inheritance money motive and that lasted until his 2nd trial I think.

His changing stories doesn't impress me. Neither does his music. Blah.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thanks for that huge white space Poirot.

I enjoyed reading that. LOL!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Just bustin' ya... LOL

MrPoirot said...

katie8753 said...
Mr. P, Bobby started out with the inheritance money motive and that lasted until his 2nd trial I think.

Poirot replies:

Mary uses the inheritance story. That is what she was told. She believed Gary had received a big inheritance. I believe she was there for the inheritance money. Bobby didn't say inheritance or mescaline. He discussed with Capote why he never said some things in his trials.

When Bobby 1st came into Gary's house he was pissed off. Would he be POd over inheritance? No.



MrPoirot said...

I had read Mary's interrogation last night on CieloDrive.com. Her answers were as chilling as anything Ive ever read in the Manson saga. She was as mean, sociopathic and bloodthirsty as any Family member. She went to Gary's with as much intent to kill as Bobby. I think their intent all along was to kill Gary. Imagine if Charlie, Bobby, Bruce, Mary and Sadie came to your house. Bobby had of known he was going to die as soon as he saw Bobby walk in unannounced. He instantly had to of known the girls set him up. Yet he gave back the gun he wrestled from Sadie. Pacifism is fatal. All the killers were way off the deep end by late July 69. Gary had to have sensed this. How can you not sense death from those people?

Cielodrive.Com said...

MrPoirot, to clarify, I'm not ignoring the drug story, I just don't think much of it based on the information available. I spend most of my time locating and archiving materials pertaining to these cases. I generally spend no time forming opinions, one way or another, about them.

Thanks Kimchi, I have not seen the report you're mentioning, but would definitely like to.

MrPoirot said...

Cielo, to clarify. The difference between you and me is I'll tell you my bias but you deny having a bias.

louis365 said...

MrPoirot said...
Imagine if Charlie, Bobby, Bruce, Mary and Sadie came to your house

I would be out the back door/window sooooo fast!

Cielodrive.Com said...

Let me put this in NFL terms. When a call is made on the field and a team decides to challenge. The ruling on the field stands unless the replay shows overwhelming evidence to the contrary. That is where I stand. Although I personally may have different thoughts and leanings about various aspects of the case, I'm perfectly happy accepting the State's version until I find, or I'm shown, overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I've yet to see it, so the ruling on the field stands.

bobby said...

Mary's interrogation last night on CieloDrive.com.

Mr. P, which one is that exactly called on cielo.com ?

Thanks.

katie8753 said...

Kinmchi, please just add the police report to this thread. Thanks!

MrPoirot said...

http://www.cielodrive.com/mary-brunner-statement-12-04-69.php

Bobby here is Mary's interrogation

MrPoirot said...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2487148/Amanda-Knox-bares-soul-Raffaele-Sollecito-seen-prison-letter.html

Here is an example of how Amanda ended up spending 4 years in prison when there was zero evidence pointing to her as a killer. Her continual bizarre behavior drove the Italians to invent evidence it never had. Her book is bizarre. She must have said a thousand times "I just couldn't understand". Who cares if you understand anything? The cops continually warned her about strange, inappropriate behavior in a police station. Yet she kept on doing weird stuff as if baiting them. For ex: cops took Amanda downstairs to view the scene and asked her to put on paper shoe covers to avoid contamination of evidence. She puts on the coveralls and jumps up with her hands over her head and yells, "tah-dah!"

I doubt there is any real measurable evidence against her such as blood etc. It just doesn't exist. All there is to prove her guilt is her bizarre behavioral antics.
I was a 100% believer in her guilt until after her second trial but all the evidence the prosecution presented fell apart. All of it! But still they were left with Amanda doing weird things which drove the cops nuts. If Amanda is innocent she spent 4 yrs in prison for acting stupid. Plus the fact that she made a statement placing herself at the scene during the murder. Hm-m-m.

katie8753 said...

Mr. P., if you are sane at all, you don't act stupid during your trial. Never.

Enter the Manson folks....

MrPoirot said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...

I'm not mad Mr. P. I was just pointing out that Amanda is not carrying a full load upstairs.

Any defendant with any sense would know to just sit still and look sad at their trial.

Amanda laughed all the way thru hers. Jodi Arias laughed, smirked and argued with the DA thru hers. And we all know how Manson & his "women" acted during their trial.

bobby said...

Thanks Mr. P.

Hi Katie, Alcohol makes you pretty.

will you marry me ?

Bobby

katie8753 said...

BOBBY! YOU'RE MY SWEET-Y-HEART!! LOL!

Come visit me on my blog: http://blogaboutnothing7.blogspot.com

MrPoirot said...