Wednesday, January 30, 2013

Lynyrd Weighs-In on Bruce Davis...

I have very mixed emotions, about Davis’ parole.

I never thought I'd say this in a million years... but, I think the right thing to do, is release him.

I'm not a supporter of Bruce Davis by any means. I'm not dying to see him released.
Yes... I find him very creepy. And yes... I also believe, that Davis is likely guilty of more crimes (than he was convicted of)...

But the fact of the matter, is that keeping this guy incarcerated any longer, seems to contradict the intent of our justice system, and the intent of his sentence.

Before everyone jumps down my throat:
I'm fully aware, that Bruce Davis could be kept incarcerated until his death, without breaking any laws. I understand that.

I'm not speaking literally, from a legal standpoint.
I'm speaking from the gut... my sense of "fair play", as it were...

This guy has served over four decades in prison.
He has earned two advanced degrees... and to my knowledge, has a spotless record.
He's already earned two approvals, and he's old as the hills.

If we keep Davis in prison forever... it begs the question:
Why are we bothering with these parole hearings??
What is the point??
Is this some kind of 21st century "cruel and unusual" joke??

And moreover…
What kind of message would another governor veto, send to other inmates?
Why should young inmates even try??

I took a management job many years ago. My superior at that time, was a great mentor.
My first week, he advised me:
"Remember... every decision that you make sends a message, and sets a precedent".
I found his words, to be true.

I think releasing Davis, would send a powerful message to guys like Charles Manson, who remain defiant throughout their entire incarceration.  It would send a powerful message, to inmates (like Manson) who squander their time, and skip parole hearings.
Sometimes, a bit of jealousy goes a long way. 
Let the defiant inmates sit and stew, while Davis is out enjoying himself.
Jealousy can be both… a powerful motivator and a cruel punisher.

Releasing Davis, would also send a very positive message to young inmates with years ahead of them, that hard work and good behavior will be rewarded.

In short...
More positive outcomes can be accomplished by releasing Davis (at this point), than continuing to retain him.
If you deny Davis, you're telling defiant inmates like Manson, that they've won... and young upcoming inmates, that it's not worth trying.

As I've outlined...
I believe these decisions are bigger than one individual's fate (in this case Davis‘).
These decisions can be used to improve our prison system (to create hope and motivation among inmates), or the opposite (to create despair and apathy).
Think about it.

We have to ask ourselves:
Are we really working towards rehabilitation?
Or, is that just a handy catch-phrase we use, to soothe our own conscience?

Are we operating on 100% vengeance, at the dismissal of all other considerations?

I don't like Bruce Davis... and no, I wouldn't want him living next door, to me.
But the fact is... I believe, that Davis has served "the intent" of his sentence.

Did Davis deserve "life with the possibility of parole"?
Probably not.

Did Davis commit other crimes?
Probably yes.

While these questions are certainly interesting... they don’t matter.
We must deal with reality.
The reality, is that Davis was convicted of two murders, and was given the opportunity for parole.

(It goes without saying, that we cannot continue to incarcerate a man for suspected crimes).

It pains me to say this, but I believe releasing Davis, is the right thing to do.
He has served the intent of his sentence, as I personally interpret it.

I'm not sure, that I could sign the release papers myself (LOL), that would be pretty damn tough.  But from a non-biased, detached standpoint, I believe it should be done.

My two cents…

82 comments:

Jersydevil said...

L,S Do you believe Bruce was involved in the Doreen Gaul and Joel Pugh Murders ?
The last book I read on the case was Charles MANSON Coming Down Fast the author claims Davis was the one who wiped down the revolver of prints that killed Zero still.don't know how those at the scene pulled that one off Zero dies playing Russian roulette with a fully loaded 22 revolver that was found wiped clean of prints returned to the holster

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Jersey.

I believe there's a fair chance, that Davis was involved in Zero's death.
Suspicions in that regard, have worthwhile merit.

As for Pugh, I'm less convinced.
I believe Pugh's death, is still very much a mystery, regardless of what Simon Wells says in his book.

It all comes down to personal opinion, my friend.
And in regards to Davis' upcoming parole chances... it doesn't matter.

We can't incarcerate a man for suspected crimes, only convicted crimes.

Jersydevil said...

Agreed I thought it was a pretty good book learned nothing new but still thought it was a good effort seems he combined the best parts of several books into one Bruce Davis at his age I don't see him being a parole risk all in all though think Bobby more deserving
Great blog I enjoy that you try to keep things peaceful and you don't attack people with different opinions

Venus said...

Lynyrd, I totally get what you're saying. I'm not sure if he should be released or not. BUT!! My thought is this....IF he was found suitable for parole, then why shouldn't he get it? Like you said, why bother with the hearings if the answer is, "Yeah, we granted you parole, but you won't get it anyway." That makes no sense.

Jersydevil said...

If Davis isn't paroled I'd say that would be the end of Bobby ever getting out also
As for Leslie just my opinion but being involved with one of the most notorious crimes in history I see her leaving prison same way Atkins did in a body bag

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Venus!

I caught your cold/flu via email.
I've been sick as a dog, for three days... : (

Thanks... I owe ya one. LOL!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thanks for the kind words Jerseydevil.
Your input is appreciated.

Venus said...

Lynyrd, what can I say? I love to share! LOL You'll feel better in a few days but will be miserable til then. (always a perfect ray of sunshine, aren't I?)

katie8753 said...

Lynyrd I understand all your points and can see your reasoning.

But I guess I can't get beyond my own biogtry regarding this guy.

These people all joined up with Charlie and listened to his nonsense willfully and wantonly. Nobody put a gun to anyone's head to do so. Nobody put a gun to anyone's head to take drugs daily and steal from people. Nobody put a gun to anyone's head to kill innocent people they didn't even know for no reason at all other than Charlie said.

And Bruce was one of the main ones.

I realize that Bruce wasn't involved in Hinman's murder. I realize that Bruce wasn't involved in the TLB murders (although he asked to go along the night of the LaBianca murders but Charlie said "sorry full car"). But he was willing to go.

The thing about the Hinman and Shea murders that really makes me mad is that it was a group against one.

Hinman: Bobby, Mary, Sadie, Charlie & Bruce against him.

Shea: Charlie, Bruce, Clem & Tex against him.

That's the coward's way out. A group against one.

Charles Manson was/is a coward. That's why he had to order others to kill because he didn't have the balls to do it himself.

Even with Lottsapoppa, he dragged TJ along.

This guy who was supposed to be some kind of Jesus incarnate didn't have the cajunas to kill by himself. He ordered his minions to do it. And his minions cooperated fully.

Once you become a minion of a cult leader, you can't get out, because it could happen again.

As far as Bruce being released, I'm reminded of the fact that he could very well indeed been involved in Zero's death as he was there, and in Pugh's death because he was most likely in England at the time.

And his continual smirk throughout that "surrender" video and also his continual smirks, shoulder shruggings and non-commital remarks in ALL of his parole hearings, leads me to believe that he thinks he's "above the law" and as such, should be pardoned like his squirrely friend Clem.

He has never, until the last parole hearing upon the advice of his attorney, admitted his involvement in killing Shorty.

But all we have is his word, like Van Houten, that he "only stabbed when the victim was already dead".

Sorry not good enough for me. There are lots of Manson family members I think should still be in prison until they die. But that won't happen unless someone can find proof of what they did.

But that doesn't mean that Bruce gets out just because justice wasn't served on the others.

Most people who join dangerous cults just die because the cult leader gives up and gives the word for death. Jonestown, Applewhite, Koresh....I guess Charlie didn't have time. He was hiding in that bathroom....

Again, just my opinion....

katie8753 said...

And I'll say one more thing about the Shea killing.

It was most likely the most brutal killing of all. When they located the skeletal remains of Shorty, they realized that not only was his skull bashed in with a heavy instrument, but that the stab wounds were so vicious that the weapons dented the rib bones.

And the coroner surmised that most likely death occurred after most of the injuries, which means that Shorty felt the pain.

Barbara Hoyt says she heard Shorty screaming. I'll bet scream he did.

The killers of Shorty only have to wait until death overtakes them naturally. Maybe in their sleep, or maybe when they choke on a frankfurter.

They don't have do endure this kind of death at a young age.....

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Katie.

Your opinion is valid, and I thank you for sharing.

Bruce Davis is a criminal.
There's no two ways about it.

No murderer truly deserves release, from a purely empirical standpoint.

Empirical:
Relying on experience or observation alone, without due regard for system and theory.


If we assume one life, equals one life... (which is a very safe assumption)... then quite simply, Davis shouldn't be released for two lifetimes.
You're correct.

Thing is...
The concept of parole (for murderers), is based upon a certain degree of "mercy", or "pardon".

If we gave murderers what they truly deserve... they would all be murdered upon conviction.
(And yes, some societies have operated that way)

But, as Mahatma Gandhi once said:
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".

If we have no interest in extending mercy... then we shouldn't hold parole hearings for murderers at all.
(And, that's an option too)

I simply feel, that if we're going to offer an inmate the possibilty of parole... we must observe that consideration in earnest.
To do otherwise, is to ignore our own laws.

Beyond that, there are several other variables which must be considered, which I've already outlined in my thread.

katie8753 said...

Lynyrd, what "mercy" did Bruce offer Shorty Shea?

Why should we extend "mercy" to him, when it wasn't offered to his victim ante homicidium.....?

I don't understand why we offer mercy to killers when they didn't consider it for their victims.

Confused....

katie8753 said...

Oh well, G'night Jugdish. We don't have to agree. It's okay.

I hope you're feeling better. Luv ya! :)

beauders said...

it is said that true punishment only occurs when the inmate is doing well enough to be paroled but is not released. the rest is just confinement so the inmate does not bring anymore harm to society. davis has a lot of time to serve even if he is paroled this month. i would support his release if he was released in five years after achieving parole this month, but no sooner.

Cease2 said...

40 years is enough. Any other western country, and he'd be out in 15-20, so 40 sounds fair if you want to make sure you get your pound of flesh.

Like LS says, what's the point if parole is offered but not given?

If that was the default, it would be carte blanche for Lifers to slaughter each other, and the guards, and organize murder and carnage beyond the prison gates...as there'd be nothing to strive for, to live for, and no worse punishment could be handed them.

Unlikeable though he is, in Davis's case he does seem to have worked towards rehabilitation. Same goes for Pat, Leslie and maybe Bobby. But Bruce is, and should be, first up. And make his cell space available for a newly convicted maniac.

katie8753 said...

I think that when California decided to abolish the death penalty, they should have just changed all those sentences to life in prison, period. No parole.

I think about the TLB trial jury being locked up for months, enduring all that cacophony during the trial, the antics, the objections, even having their lives threatened, but they stood fast and endured until the end. They decided these people should die for what they did.

And the State of California basically thumbed its nose to these jurors and other jurors who reached this decision and said "well not only are these people not going to die...they might walk one day".

That's a whole big ball of wrong.

Doc Sierra said...

I like the picture of Lebowski. I could picture his reaction to Governor Brown denying his parole. "You fucking Paraquat"......

katie8753 said...

Doc, The Dude definitely Abides. LOL.

starship said...

That picture looks like me....

Way to go Lynyrd. You have nailed it exactly as far as I am concerned. Sorry Katie.

And to my liberal soul, I would like to track the data we can collect about how these people behave post-parole. We are so concerned about what they might do after release...hell, Sadie couldn't even get out while being a terminally ill amputee...and she's a chick...well, by my observations, Squeaky and Clem are leading trouble free lives. If Bruce can do so too then perhaps we can move toward getting over this 'emotional justice' which leary coined and I agree with as well. None of these old women are apt to hurt anyone but themselves if ever they get out.

adam said...

I think if it wasn't for Doris Tate and Steven Kay's high profile campaign, then most of the Manson Family would have got parole in the 80's. Certainly Pat, Leslie, Bobby and Bruce. Now I think the parole boards are just silently hoping that they will all die of old age and then the problem of letting them free would be gone. No one wants to let them out because they are all too aware of the media scrunity involved.

katie8753 said...

DeCarlo said (regarding Shorty):

"they stuck him like carving up a Christmas turkey...Bruce (Davis) said they cut him up in nine pieces. They cut his head off. Then they cut his arms off too, so there was no way they could possibly identify him. They were laughing about that." (from Helter Skelter, page 153)

I have a hard time progressing to "now" regarding these people. They thought murder was really funny back then....

bobby said...

Katie< Not to take away from the horrible murder of Shorty, But is'nt Danny lying about it ? arm's head being cut off ?

katie8753 said...

Hi Bobby.

Danny wasn't lying about it. Bruce lied about it to Danny. Danny was just repeating what Bruce told him. :)

bobby said...

dig

katie8753 said...

Zero died on November 5, 1969 in Bruce's company. Bruce's fingerprint was on the gun.

Bruce went back to England on November 23, 1969. Joel Pugh was killed in London December 1, 1969.

Do the math.

I know you can't add in "what ifs" into this equation, but Bruce was definitely Charlie's "soldier" during this period.

Don't even get me started on Doreen Gaul. LOL.

These people who oversee parole hearings are a various gamete of folks. They are usually not familiar with the cases they are handling until probably right before the hearings. Which could be a good thing for the prisoner seeking refuge.

But in the "Manson Family" saga, it's most likely a detriment for that soiled name to show up on their files. But it's the way it is.

You can label it "not fair" but it's the way it is.

As I said, these people chose to follow Manson years ago. Choice! Made a choice!

And as we all know...bad choices can have consequences which can last sans finite.

I say let that jury who sat thru this seemingly endless trial with all the drama, harangues and threats to endure, and managed to do their civic duty with a verdict, rest in peace, knowing that they did the right thing.

katie8753 said...

Hey Bruce, I'm just reflecting you back to yourself.

Isn't that what you disjointed feebs used to say?

HA HA.

Well I hope that Lynyrd is okay. I'm concerned about him. He's been under the weather for a few days.

G'night Jugdish. Sweet dreams and I hope you're feeling better. Talk to you soon! :)

beauders said...

katie i believe that davis and most likely watson murdered gaul and sharp, but i don't think davis killed joel pugh, but why wouldn't people think pugh was murdered by davis since he is a convicted murderer? habe and the others i just don't know.

katie8753 said...

Beauders, I don't know if Pugh was murdered or not. A lot of people just think it was suicide. I just think it's too convenient for him to just show up dead.

Why anyone would kill him I don't know. I don't think Habe was killed by any of the Manson Family.

katie8753 said...

Beauders (or anyone who knows) in watching this film of Bruce surrendering, I was just wondering how this all came about. Did he call a press conference or something? I was just wondering why all those reporters were gathered and how they even knew who he was. I don't recall back in 1969 or 1970 ever even hearing his name on the news.

Also, a reporter asks him if he got married, and of course he didn't answer. What's that about?

katie8753 said...

Wow. Nobody in TLB-land knows the answer? Is it that mysterious or should I start working on another thread? HA HA.

matt prokes said...

I'm guessing the Lawyers got hold of the Press....to what end I don't know.
As for the Marriage Question I think He was supposed to have Married Nancy Pitman while he was on the run.

katie8753 said...

Hey check this out from BPT. Good stuff. I haven't seen it before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGq4tHrEJzI

Thanks Michael!!! :)

katie8753 said...

>>> Matt said: I'm guessing the Lawyers got hold of the Press....to what end I don't know.>>>

Sounds strange....I'll investigate. Why would the lawyers care about Bruce? It doesn't make any sense. Bruce doesn't alleviate ANY guilt from ANY of the TLB accused.

>>>As for the Marriage Question I think He was supposed to have Married Nancy Pitman while he was on the run.>>>

Well that's interesting. He married Nancy Pitman? Why? What purpose did that serve?

Must have been a lot of "splaining" to do when Bruce married his "used to be" wife. "Oh honey, she didn't mean a thing to me."

And when Brenda married her AB husband "oh darlin' he didn't mean a thing to me".

Maybe if Bruce gets out he's gonna have a target on his back.

HA HA.

Okay, it's wind down time. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

Til tomorrow....

katie8753 said...

Thanks Matt. This is some funny stuff. I've got a thread in mind.

Night y'all! :)

beauders said...

the free manson family told the lawyers and press that davis was surrendering.

katie8753 said...

G'night Jugdish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EddTylxjNUo

I'm glad you're feeling better! Sleep tight!

katie8753 said...

Thanks Beauders! I knew you would know! :)

MrPoirot said...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2269357/Vidal-Sassoon-I-did-pixie-cut-says-Mia-Farrow-hairdressers-signature-style.html#axzz2JgxHyvvZ

katie8753 said...

Thanks Mr. P. I remember when Mia had long straight hair when she played in Peyton Place. When she cut her hair off, there was a big media buzz about it, trying to make it look sinister or cultish, but she said in an interview back in the 60's "I cut it off because I was tired of fooling with it".

So much for mystery.....

MrPoirot said...

I never lied her or her haircut. I think she was coping Twiggy and Judy Carne. She always seemed to get more press than she deserved. Apparently she slept with the right men in Hollywood. Then when she married Woody Allen she started adopting kids from every known 3rd world country in the world like she was trying to win the Nobel Piece Prize for Pointless Multiculturalism. I'm surprised she hasn't declared her family a seperate country and seceded fro the union.

Jersydevil said...

Katie wondering where you heard that Bruce Davis print was found on the 22. Revolver that killed Zero ? Everything I've read about that case states that the gun was found wiped clean of prints and returned to the holster

MrPoirot said...

Bruce did admit he held the gun at Zero's house but the gun had nobody's prints.

The only reason I ever thought Bruce ever had anything to do with Zero's death was Van Houton's reaction when told Zero had shot himself playing roulette. Leslie was extremely suspicious of the circustances. I still lean to the side of Bruce not being involved because Lil Patty stated she was next to Zero in bed when he pulled the trigger. But it was strange how Leslie asked if Bruce was there at the time. What was that about?

katie8753 said...

Jersy, I've actually read both accounts...that his prints were on the gun and that they weren't on the gun, so I really don't know what the truth is about that.

Example: Prints on gun: http://omnivoxy.tumblr.com/post/16515820149/oldirtyhank-charlesmansonatwar-mughot-from

No prints on gun: http://www.cielodrive.com/john-haught.php

I have read that the gun was fully loaded, so obviously somebody touched that gun after Zero was killed, but if no prints were found, then they were wiped off.

katie8753 said...

Mr. P., I think that when Leslie was being questioned by the police and they told her about Zero, she said "I'm not saying anything else. I don't want what happened to Zero to happen to me".

I can't believe the police ruled this a suicide. If Zero shot himself in the head, wouldn't there have been powder burns on his hand??

If Leslie knows something about Bruce she better start snitching fast. He might just walk.

Jersydevil said...

I know the cops were always suspicious of the whole Russian roulette story considering
The gun was fully loaded I'm sure if Davis,s print was found on it they would of charged him
Do,s anyone else remember there was a Jane Doe murder before Doreen Gaul and the 15 yr,old boys bodies were found

katie8753 said...

Jersy:

http://www.truecrimediary.com/index.cfm?page=cases&id=179

I have no idea if Jane Doe was killed by Bruce or someone else from the Manson Family, nor if they killed Doreen Gaul or James Sharp. It certainly is suspicious.

I also wanted to mention the fact that Leslie Van Houten was offered a "deal" by Bugliosi to testify against the Family, but she turned him down flat.

I don't think she did that out of loyalty to the Family, I think she did that out of abject fear.

After Zero's death, I think she realized that Charlie wasn't just killing "pigs" anymore...he was killing anyone he felt was a threat.

She's probably still regretting that decision to this day. If she had testified against them, she would most likely be free today.

I wonder if Pat & Leslie still fear him.....

Panamint Patty said...

Good evening hostess with the mostess. Can you explain the Jugdish thing to Patty? Is it an Animal House reference, or Seinfeld? Happy New Year XXX

katie8753 said...

Hi Patty.

The Jugdish thing is completely Seinfeld:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EddTylxjNUo

No other way to go! :)

I have always viewed Lynyrd & I like Jerry and Elaine. Fast friends who fight like cats and dogs occasionally. (Did I say that?? HA HA HA)

katie8753 said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnuR3y8HUm8

Oh the little hand is on the 11 and the big hand is on the 12. Bedtime! HA HA.

G'night Jugdish. Sweet dreams!

beauders said...

there were three jane does and one john doe associated with the manson family. one jane doe was found on 08/03/69. she was stabbed repeatedly and had her throat cut. this murder is laid at beausoleil's feet literally. she was found in an area with a very rare dirt, when beausoleil was arrested he had the same dirt on his boots.

beauders said...

the next was jane doe #44. she was found in july 1969 a few miles north of spahn ranch. the next is jane doe #59. she was found on 11/16/69. she was stabbed 157 times and her throat cut. ruby pearl identified her clothing as being worn at spahn ranch. deemer felt this murder was committed by the same person who murdered gaul and sharp. he said who ever committed the gaul/sharp murders committed the tate murders.

beauders said...

the john doe was found in the sand dunes nearly a mile from stovepipe well's resort in death valley when the family was in the area. i'm watching doomsday preppers on tv, those people are as obsessed with surviving the apocalypse as i am with the tate/labianca murders.

Jersydevil said...

Hello Beauders the Jane Doe I was referring to was the one you mention found on 9/17 is the one I was referring to she was also stabbed in one of her eyes same as Doreen Gaul
I'd never heard Bobby was suspected in another murder
L,S Love this blog great how we can have real discussions different Poppins all seemed respected good deal
Katie thanks to the links you left me much.appreciated peace

leary7 said...

I hope Lynyrd is feeling okay. I know he was battling the flu.

I confess to always feeling overwhelmed when discussing the "additional murders" the Family is suspected of. I am always incredulous at the incompetency of police investigations. The Ukiah one for instance. Two women are brutally murdered and it just seemed like investigators locked down on one suspect and never bothered with other leads.

Can anyone say where the best summaries for these unsolved murders exists? Is it in the Hendrickson book, or Sanders book or elsewhere.
Does anyone else think there is a real possibility of solving some of these cases with the advances in forensics?
Of course we had all hoped the Tex tapes might have some info in them but that is looking more and more like a fairy tale.
And of course we all fantasize that someone in the Family, getting close to the finish line of their lives, might decide to tell all. Maybe Mary, or Ella Jo or Madeline Jo (who was in bed with Zero, right) or of course Nancy who just might know the most.
I guess I am just surprised that some Cal would-be writer with money hasn't locked onto this story and pursued it. I know there is a new book on the case coming out soon by a pro writer. Maybe that will have some updated stuff.

katie8753 said...

Hi Leary. Bugliosi and Sanders both mention these unsolved murders in their books, but of course, we still don't know if the Manson Family did them. Bugliosi does say that he thinks Pugh was murdered and they didn't investigate fully.

I guess these detectives are overloaded with murders to solve. There aren't enough hours in the day to solve all of them. I don't know how in the world they could have thought that Zero killed himself, but maybe it's easier sometimes to just assume something and close the case. Don't know...

Jersy...stop by anytime! :)

Panamint Patty said...

ty katie - check this one out around the 1:00 mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuFCaIAnETk

katie8753 said...

Another Jugdish? HA HA.

ELAINE: Do you know what 'Jerry' is in Indian?

JERRY: (Carrying her out, piggy-back style) No, what?

ELAINE: Jug-dish.

ELAINE: Hey, what if I got my, nose pierced? That would be pretty freaky.. Oooohhhhaaa! (sliding off Jerry onto the hallway floor)

JERRY: (Trying to get rid of her) Yes, I think it's a fine idea. Well, good night.

(Jerry shuts the door. Elaine peers through the blinds on Jerry's door...

ELAINE: G'night, Jugdish. (Laughs)

matt prokes said...

And here I was thinking the whole 'jugdish' thing was some Texas saying.

katie8753 said...

MATT!!! :) You sweet thang you! Smoooch!

katie8753 said...

Well Baltimore won. Both teams played well, but unfortunately there's only one winner.

Kudos to both teams! :)

I remember back in the 70's I played in a girls' softball league with a group of friends and we played against a "real" team once. Here we were, a bunch of "Charlie's Angels" lookalikes, playing girls who spit and scratched. LOL. But once they were 25 points ahead, they cut us some slack and let us get some runs. They could definitely afford it.

I remember I hit a base run to first and the first baseman and I did a "high five" when I got there. LOL.

Ahhhh...youth!

Anyway, night y'all! :)

Leigh said...

Beauders (or any other knowledgeable person with more information) - can you direct me to somewhere with more information about the Jane Doe that you say "is laid at Beausoleil's feet directly"? I don't know much about it and it sounds very interesting. People are always tempted to lay additional murders at the doorsteps of Bruce and Tex, but the same isn't usually said/suspected of Beausoleil.

beauders said...

i learned of it on truth on tate/labianca forum.

katie8753 said...

I had never heard that Bobby was accused of any murder other than Gary's either. Hmmm....

starship said...

Unfortunately the cops often focus on one erroneous suspect which sometimes allow for the real trail to grow cold. I have a close friend in law enforcement who has told me about personal involvment with two cases like that...fortunately developments occurred which put the cops on to the right perpetrators.

Ray Lewis was interviewed before the superbowl on CBS. He stated that he refuses to allow his past to define his future, but rather his faith will define his future. Made me think of these born again murderers who want desperately to be paroled.

MrPoirot said...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2273062/Church-Scientology-pays-8-million-run-60-second-commercial-Super-Bowl-drawing-mockery-viewers.html#axzz2JgxHyvvZ

I thought i'd post this article on scientology since it figures so prominently in Manson's mind control ways at Spahn Ranch.
I have read 3 books on scientology by L Ron and noticed that it is not a religion nor is it spiritual. Scientology is a philosophy but is also very money oriented. All those auditing sessions that Charlie underwent in prison for free are very expensive on the outside.
I would describe scientology as a secular religion or a religion for atheists. Sorta like a self help society. Don't forget your wallet.

Jersydevil said...

Let's not forget the Degrimstones founders of the Process Church started out as scientologists
And as K,S as blogged about the great book The Ultimate Evil if what Maury Terry writes is to be believed there's alot of darkness involved behind this religion

matt prokes said...

Jersydevil said... there's alot of darkness involved behind this religion.
In My opinion You could make that statement about almost every Religion!
And I wouldn't classify Scientology as a religion...Its a Story dreamed up by a failed Science fiction writer thats turned into a moneymaking enterprise preying on the weaked minded.
On second thought that does sound a lot like most Religions doesn't it?!?
just my opinion.

matt prokes said...

Weaked minded?

sunset77 said...

"The state's Board of Parole Hearings submitted to Gov. Jerry Brown its recommendation that Bruce Davis is suitable for parole. The documents were submitted Friday, one day ahead of the deadline, according to California Department of Corrections spokeswoman Terry Thornton.

The board's attorneys were required to review the findings of a two-member panel which ruled he was suitable for parole. They confirmed there were no errors of fact or law in the submission."--Yahoo News

Full article HERE.

I noticed some mention of the "religion" of Scientology. On another blog about 1 year ago, someone was looking for a person that may have been at Barker and may have been associated with Manson and may have been a Scientologist. I located that person online through e-mail.

It turns out she was never at Barker or had any association with Manson, however, she was apparently one of the founding members of Scientology. She apparently, was with L. Ron Hubbard from near the beginning of his "religion". After I think about 10 years, they had a disagreement and she was "excommunicated". They put people like that on a list of "suppressive persons", I think it's called. I think I read she moved to Oregon and started her own "free Scientology" I think she called it, for people that follow that "religion", but not L. Ron Hubbard.

My own personal opinion is that "Scientology" is a money making scam invented by L. Ron Hubbard. "E-meters", "Xemu", "clears" and other inventions of Hubbard are simply non existent nonsense. My opinion is that Hubbard hid behind the cloak of "religion" to mask his criminal fraud. Many millions of dollars changed hands.

matt prokes said...

Amen to that.

bobby said...

weak minded ?

katie8753 said...

Scientology was dreamed up by some whacked out yo yo on the lam.

It's popular in Hollywood (or Movie Land) because (a) certain movie stars like to think they've been "cleansed" and (b) giving money to a "church" is tax deductible. Maybe John Travolta thinks he's saved even though he likes to dress like a woman. Well I'm sure there's a chapter about that too. HA HA.

And according to the National Enquirer, Tom Cruise is running for President to spread this Scientology disease. LOL.

It's not the first time Hollywood has been scammed. You could research this for decades and find all kinds of stupid things that people in Hollywood (or many other places) have fallen for.

In the 80's, Hollywood yo yo's were completely captivated by channeling Ramtha (a/k/a JZ Knight, she hit the jackpot)

Throw money at it, and it will solve your problems.

I wonder if Bruce Davis is still a Scientologist?????

Jersydevil said...

I thought Bruce converted to the Church of
Rev. Tex ?

katie8753 said...

Jersy, right on! The Church of "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine". LOL.

Losers...

katie8753 said...

Okay off subject for a sec, then let's get back to the cultish goings on of Scientololgy:

On the Jodi Arias trial, she took the stand today and said this, regarding her interview with 48 Hours in 2008:

"Arias, 32, also explained why she said in a news interview, "No jury would ever convict" her of murdering Alexander. At the time, she said it was because she was innocent, but on the stand today she said she made that statement because she had plans to commit suicide after the interview. The interview took place in September 2008, three months after the killing.

"I was very confident that no jury would convict me because I was sure I'd be dead," she said. "Those are probably the most bitter words I'll ever eat."


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!! Why is she still alive?????

Actually, at the time she said "No jury will convict me because I'm innocent". Changing her story again......ANOTHER LIE! HA HA

This is so reminiscent of Casey Anthony. Pathological lying AGAIN! I hope this jury is smarter than the one from Panola County, FL!!!

The DA is gonna make "mince meat" of her. LOL.

MrPoirot said...

The Arias trial is interesting. Jodi is obviously making key defense strategy decisions. She has boldly admitted to murder and taken the stand admitting to withdrawing from high school over a parental dispute about being able to spend the night with her boyfriend. Guess who got her way?

The jury is ostly men. The defense team has successfully created sympathy for the defendent as well as weakened the integrity of the murder victim. She may walk.

The trial has been on Youtube. Don't be surprised if Jodi moves in with Casey Anthony after the verdict. Both of these women have led a life of ruthlessly getting what they want from other people. If they don't get their way, somebody dies.

adam said...

Her mannerisms and tendency to lie through a sweet demeanor remind me of Sadie so much it's spooky.

If the prosecutor can't get a 1st degree murder conviction on this bitch then he needs to pick a different way to make a living.

I'd also like to say that I'm 100% against the concept of a Jury being used in crimes of such magnitude. What the fuck would the average Joe Sixpack know about the complexities of criminal human behaviour? It's the legal equivalent of dragging a bunch of stiffs off the street, taking them to a hospital and telling them to perform brain surgery on someone.

katie8753 said...

Jodi Arias sits on the stand and makes small talk about abhorrent events like she's sitting under the hairdryer at the beauty shop.

This chick is whacked!

She laughs and smiles at certain points, but doesn't seem to remember that she stabbed this guy 29 times, shot him in the forehead and according to the coroner, almost cut his head off.

She claims self defense, but this is overkill. When the DA gets hold of her, we're finally gonna get some answers. Although she lies 24/7 like Casey Anthony.

I think she will be found guilty, although I think she will probably not get the death penalty. Only because juries seem to be soft on young women who aren't ugly.

She reminds me of someone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFaK3dE0cEY

She got jail time too.

MrPoirot said...

If Jodi Arias and Travis Alexander weren't married why were they only having annual sex?
'

adam said...

MrPoirot said...

If Jodi Arias and Travis Alexander weren't married why were they only having annual sex?
--------------------------

For a second there Mr.P, I thought you'd typed anal sex.



adam said...

Let's see -
1st she tells the cops she hadn't been in contact with the guy for months.
THEN when evidence that she had been stalking the guy for a while and was in his apartment the time he was killed she told the cops and TV stations that two unidentified guys broke in and killed him (but oddly didn't hurt a hair on her head).
THEN when photos and forensics proved that this was a crock of shit she changed her story for the 3rd time and admitted that she killed him but only as an act of self defence.

Couple of problems with claim.
1. Seven of the stab wounds were in the back. People don't usually attack someone with their back to them.
2.People don't usually wait until they are stark bollock naked in the shower to attack someone.
3. Good thing she had a fucking knife AND gun on her at the moment he supposedly attacked her huh?
4. I've never seen someone stabbed but I'm guessing a person stops being a threat long before they are stuck 27 times.
5. Oh wait, she's just stabbed him 27 times but still feels he could be a threat to her. Better try to hack his head off just to be on the safe side.
6. Apparently the bitch thought the guy was fucking Michael Myers or something and was going to pop back up the second her back was turned. Better shoot the corpse point blank in the head "in self defence".
7. Let's play Devils Advocate for a second and assume she really did to a Tex Watson on the guy as an act of self defence. Did she then call the police and hysterically explain what had happened? No she fucked off home and with 24 hours was happily frollicking around with another guy without a care in the world. That's the sign of a stone cold psychopath.

Bitch is toast.

katie8753 said...

Check this out:

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/21010530/2013/02/06/expert-witness-in-arias-trial-has-home-burglarized