Sunday, September 23, 2012

Alvin "Creepy" Karpis
As most of you know, Manson met Karpis in prison... and Karpis taught Manson to play guitar.  JohnnySeattle suggested exploring Karpis further, and this thread is the result.  I found some excellent video footage regarding Karpis, which effectively tells his whole story/biography.  To save myself tons of typing, I decided to tell Karpis' story primarily through video.  Here goes:
 
This first video (in two parts) is Karpis' story, in a nutshell.
video 
video
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This video is an interview with the Real Alvin Karpis.
Most notably, he shows absolutely no remorse, when questioned about killing folks during his robberies. 
It's downright... well... creepy!
video
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Here's a great website that has everything you ever wanted to know about Karpis... and more!
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Sunset77 Writes:
 
I just seen a YouTube vid you may be interested in, apparently the "Ma" Barker house is for sale.
 
Alvin "Creepy" Karpis was a member of the Barker-Karpis gang.  In April, 1962 Karpis was transferred from Alcatraz to McNeil Island Penitentiary where he met a young Charles Manson.
 
"This kid approaches me to request music lessons. He wants to learn guitar and become a music star. “Little Charlie” is so lazy and shiftless, I doubt if he'll put in the time required to learn. He has a pleasant voice and a pleasing personality, although he's unusually meek and mild for a convict. He never has a harsh word to say and is never involved in even an argument."  Manson told him he would be bigger than the Beatles, but Karpis decided to leave Manson on his own regarding his music career.--Alvin Karpis--Wikipedia 
video
 Thanks JohnnySeattle and Sunset77!!!

74 comments:

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

The vast bulk of this thread was researched, compiled, and submitted by JohnnySeattle.
Thanks Johnny!

The Ma Barker real estate information was submitted by Sunset77!
Thanks Sunset!

Bloggers collaborating on thread ideas... gotta LOVE it!

Thanks Guys!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Wow...
Sunset's really climbing the "wall of fame" quickly!

You ROCK!

Zarathustra said...

Very interesting. I didn't know he lived his last days here in Spain, Torremolinos!

johnnyseattle said...

Thanks Lynyrd and Sunset!

Creepy Karpis aka 'Ray' among his contemporaries such as John Dillinger or Baby Face Nelson or the Barker Gang was a true bad man.


Although J Edgar tells of him and sidekick Clyde Tolson arresting Karpis the reality was that it was a squad of FBI who first arrested Karpis and then J Edgar came out from his hiding place to arrest Karpis. As Karpis tells the story,

"When I was arrested, you have Hoover and his number two, Clyde Tolson, there to claim credit for the capture. Someone asked me if they thought maybe Hoover was wearing some lacey underwear but that isn't known for sure. What is known, is he had a hard time running over to arrest me in those damn high heels...

yelling, "Clyde bring me my damn lipstick. i gotta nail Karpis!"

(okay, maybe the above isn't quite true....)

The Ma Barker as the ring leader is a bit of a stretch per Karpis. As he says, 'She could barely organize breakfast.' But he loved her and said she was a nice simple lady who loved her boys.

Karpis spent 25 years on Alcatraz and later McNeil Island where he met Manson. You could see how a young Manson would idolize an old time bad ass like Karpis. Karpis didn't snitch and it probably is one of the reasons that Manson has a hard time even today in breaking that criminal code. No matter how bad Charlie thought he was, he paled in comparison to Karpis.


johnnyseattle said...

Unlike Manson, Karpis was able to get back to Canada and then to Spain. He was likely living off of money that he had had folks hold on to while he was in prison and whatever he could make from the sale of his two books.

Read his book on his time in Alcatraz. It is very good. He makes no apologies.

What a lot of people don't realize is some of of the banks that were robbed were set up jobs. In the Depression Banks had insurance and a bank that was facing a serious shortfall would make contact with local underworld types who would outsource the job to a John Dillinger or Barker Gang. The robbery would occur and while the robbers got away with $30 grand the Bank would report they had gotten hit for $70 grand.

Of course, not everyone was 'in' on the scheme and these robberies got damn ugly. Lots of lead flying and people hurt. The favorite escape by the robbers was to have hostages taken and placed on the running boards of the getaway car to make the police reluctant to shoot.

But you could see how a young Charlie would eat up the stories Karpis could tell of Baby Face Nelson or John Dillinger or Harry Pierpointe. Even today Charlie says good things about Karpis.



sunset77 said...

Wow, I had Manson's "Home is Where You're Happy" playing in another tab when I seen this post.

Thanx for the comment and post Johnny, and you as well Lynyrd. I just happened to see the the Ma Barker house was for sale, I had no idea Johnny was working on a post about Karpis.

Apparently, Karpis taught Manson some guitar licks, or at least that's what I've read. I read on another site about Karpis that he planned his crimes very carefully, they buried stores of gasoline, ammunition and medical supplies along getaway routes, and they also used aliases. I'm guessing that guitar licks isn't the only thing Manson picked up from Karpis. Manson certainly hid gasoline at Barker, (and I don't know what else), and their use of aliases is well known.

When I hear Manson playing guitar, I always wonder how much of it he picked up from Karpis. Same thing with Beausoliel, how much did he get from Hinman.

katie8753 said...

Thanks so much Johnny & Sunset!! You guys RULE!

When I get a chance I'll listen to the videos. I don't know a lot about Karpis.

I will say that house where Ma Barker died is a really nice house. Whoever gets that is getting a bargain.

Unless you're creeped out by someone dying violently there....

LOL

MrPoirot said...

Almost all the cartoons from the 50s and 60s including B&W movvies contained parodies of Ma Barker. Even Bugs bunny cartoons had Ma Barker parodies. Ma Barker is a stereotype characterture in cinema. There are countless old movies with a Ma Barker type with a whip beating her gangster sons into line.

Ironic that the Barker Ranch in Death Valley which was owned by Ma Barker(no relation to the first Ma Barker)was the ending point of the Manson Family

katie8753 said...

Mr. P., what about Ma Kettle? Did she fit the equation? She was a big ole gal that always had her hands on her hips and yelling PAAA! LOL

sunset77 said...

I just found an interesting story about Karpis, but the article won't let me copy and paste.

Apparently, Karpis robbed the Erie Railroad in 1935 and got away with $35,000. Supposedly, Karpis is the only person that knew where the money was/is buried. It says the FBI would visit Karpis in Alcatraz and McNeil Island to try to get him to tell where it was buried.

The consensus is Karpis took the secret to his grave. If you want to read about it, you can find the story here.

MrPoirot said...

johnnyseattle said...

Karpis spent 25 years on Alcatraz and later McNeil Island where he met Manson. You could see how a young Manson would idolize an old time bad ass like Karpis. Karpis didn't snitch and it probably is one of the reasons that Manson has a hard time even today in breaking that criminal code. No matter how bad Charlie thought he was, he paled in comparison to Karpis.9end quote)

Poirot Replies:

This is an interesting comment you make. Just like WW1, WW2 and Viet Nam including the Cold War were merely continuations of the same conflicts that could never be settled no matter how many were killed; so was the Manson saga a continuation of criminal ideologies that began in the depression era. Much of Manson's ideas came from the tales he was told by Karpis and crew.

Also this analogy may apply to music today. Greg Jacobson described Manson's free flow music style as early rap music. Unfortunantly rap music is still alive today. Damn you Charlie!

MrPoirot said...

Watch the Karpis interview. Notice where the repoter asked him if he feels remorse for hurting and killing

Karpis replies: I don't think like that. That is the difference between my makeup and yours.

Karpis is telling you he is a sociopath after all these years. Sociopathy doesn't doesn't go away with time.

johnnyseattle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
johnnyseattle said...

spot on MrPoirot. Karpis would kill you in an instant if he thought he needed to do so. the whole Barker Gang was like that. and that was just the kind of reason why Charlie was in awe of Karpis. stone cold killer.

johnnyseattle said...

Ha ha, Charlie has yet another crime to atone for: Rap!

As even Karpis admits, back then at times they were slightly nuts on some of those bank jobs. He said later on it was like they had gotten bored with the success on some of them that they tried make it even more exciting.

At the behest of local crime interests, The Karpis and Barker did some high end kidnapping back in the day getting $100 thousand for the head of the Hamm Beer Family and $200 thousand for the head of the Bremer Banking family. (multiply by 16 to get what it is worth today).

In the Bremer kidnapping they had the local police chief on the take who was feeding them information. On the Hamm kidnapping they had an insider in the Hamm Org who was keeping them fed with info. Read "John Dillinger Slept Here" about the city of St Paul Minnesota that basically had a hands off crooks policy IF you paid off the cops and agreed to not do anything within city limits. Which is why the Barker Gang, Dillinger Gang, Baby Face Nelson types all flocked to St Paul.

All of these bank robber types served the interests of organized crime until they got to be too hot at which time they got killed or tipped to the police. Karpis knew people like Frankie Carbo, Frank Nitti, and had even met Capone before prison. Of course, he got to know Capone real well during the time at Alcatraz.

So Charlie sees from Karpis how the mafia and independent criminal types work together. You'll see this theme fleshed out in the Shreck book.

Here is a great quote about Karpis contemporary Dillinger:

"Johnnie's just an ordinary fellow. Of course he goes out and holds up banks and things,
but he's really just like any other fellow....aside from that."
- Mary Kinder, a Dillinger girlfriend"

September 24, 2012 9:04 AM

leary7 said...

Holy crap, Johnny. I did not know that. Here I am living in St Paul and I just thought it was the boyhood home of F. Scott Fitsgerald. I had no idea it was a criminal haven in its day. I will search for that book.

johnnyseattle said...

Leary 7, check out this interview of the author "John Dillinger Slept Here. "Learn about the 'OConner System' and all the genuine bad dudes who use to make St Paul the place to be when you were hot and needed to escape from law enforcement. You will be amazed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaJ0pyaE3Gg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtHqu405OR0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2PlFIJnZgE

Kimchi said...

This is an interesting topic guys- last night I went to those links you posted and read up on this guy.... He was well spoken, I'll say that, nothing what I expected.

I did feel bad however, about his remains being dug up 20 years after the fact and placed in a communal grave...that bugged me for some reason..

johnnyseattle said...

In the Shreck book, it contradicts Karpis about him not helping Charlie with his connections to Frankie Carbo, etc. One can imagine when Karpis wrote the book he was out and didn't want to unduly entangle himself with Charlie post prison life so he gave the story about not giving any assistance with contacts, etc.

I am 'assuming' that Shreck got his information from his talks with Charlie Manson. But I do not know that for sure.

johnnyseattle said...

Here is another Karpis interview, more in depth while in Toronto. His intelligence comes through.

Howard Duff does the interview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8tV3wNLUOE

Kimchi said...

Hey Johnny, I watched that one last night, that's where I got the impression he was well spoken,,,,

leary7 said...

thanks much for the great links johnny. i've been in lots of towns that gave me bad or weird vibes - Cedar City Utah with its MOuntain Meadows Massacre is one, and Flagstaff for some reason gave me some serious dark vibes. But St Paul seems as benign as Mayberry RFD. I'm gonna have to do some diggin to find the bad guy vein here. Maybe Prince eradicated it.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Here's the thing that really stood out, regarding Karpis' story to me.

Karpis spent years robbing banks... and he was NEVER caught.

For some reason, Karpis decided to switch over to kidnapping... and that was his downfall.

You see... bank robbery was a local offense... and evidently, the local cops sucked.
But kidnapping (on the other hand) was a federal offense.

After kidnapping his first high-profile person... the feds were on his trail big-time.
They had the green light.
Even the president got involved.

When he kidnapped the second dude... the feds marked the ransom bills... and that's how they got him.

A gazillion bank robberies... and he walked away scott free.
Two kidnappings, and he was done.

Very interesting story.

Moral of the story...
Stick to local crimes you're really good at. LOL!

But seriously...
I found that interesting.

It's all in the video footage.
Everyone should watch it.

I gotta wonder why he gave-up on bank robberies, after so much success with them.

Had it become less lucrative for some reason?
Who knows...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Here's something to think about.

If Helter Skelter was the real motive... you have to ask yourself this:

Why did they abruptly discontinue "operations" after just two nights?

That's a question, which I've pondered many times.

I think that's one of the bigger loopholes to Bugliosi's theory.

I mean...
If they were really, really convinced that the end of the world (as we know it) was eminent... "coming-down immediately"... as Bugliosi suggested... then why stop?

Yet another reason why Bugliosi's theory doesn't fly very well.

If they were really trying to ignite a world-wide Armageddon race war... they certainly weren't very persistent about it.
Two nights?

Just thinking aloud...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Johnny's comment pulled forward, from the previous thread:

In regards to the Helter Skelter Theory, why did they book out to Death Valley when it was obvious that revolution wasn't gonna happen. You murder over a half dozen people and you tell me that you are gonna give up the revolution? And why would anyone think that Blacks would be targeting or revolting over the death of a young white movie star, a coffee heiress, a hair stylist, and some other well to do white folks?

Not only that, but Tex and the girls weren't hanging around with Charlie they all scattered. So much for sticking around to help get the revolution going.

I was just a kid then in So Cal but I don't recall anyone being particularly freaked. People still got up, went to work, took the kids to school, etc etc etc. That's because most people didn't have a close connection to what happened at the Tate Residence.

The over reaction by Rosemary Labianca was the tell in my eyes. Why did she get so worked up over the death of a young movie star and her rich friends that she ostensibly had no connection with. The newspaperman who sold Leno the paper that night said she reacted very strongly. Not just surprise, but very strongly to the news of the Tate Residence massacre.

johnnyseattle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
johnnyseattle said...

So Manson sends his killers out on Night 1 and Night 2 and then he stops...and waits... and waits...

and can anyone explain how the death of some rich white folks over a two night period was going to motivate blacks to start a revolution?

johnnyseattle said...

Hey Lynyrd
In regards to Karpis changing from banks to kidnapping he was basically against it. He went for the Hamm deal cause of the connections within and Fred Barker (who was the brains of the Barker family) was hot for the deal. The Bremmer kidnapping was one that Karpis really had to be talked into but finally capitulated as their local underworld contacts really really wanted them to do it and he didn't want to go against 'em. What he didn't take into account was that Bremmer was a close friend of FDR and that the heat would be uber hot. So hot it was ultimately their undoing. It got connected to the Karpis/Barker gang by a single fingerprint left on a gas can. Doc Barker -not known for his brains- took his gloves off when handling one of the gas cans and it was later connected to the kidnapping. Oh yeah, Karpis was one of the few who successfully went through the process to have his fingerprints obliterated via acid treatment.
Karpis later would go on to pull off a train robbery for $27 thousand (over $350 k today) with a newly constituted gang.

katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
leary7 said...

man, there's gotta be something wrong with me. I found Alvin totally charming. That he grew into a sociopath seems almost an amusement to him. Sociopaths have always fascinated me. I could have sat on the porch with Alvin for days listening to his yarns.

katie8753 said...

Leary I felt the same way. He was a soft spoken quiet man. Not at all what I would expect.

Sunset or Johnny, did Karpis ever comment about the Manson murders?? His opinion for motive or anything?

johnnyseattle said...

Karpis said that charlie was the last man he would have figured to go into the 'mass murder business.' he also talked about how charlie was 'into this new thing called scientology and figured it would enable him to do anything or be anything.' Karpis tried to dissuade him from that angle and essentially told him scientology was bunk. This is what Manson said about his time with Karpis.

"Manson recalled about his days with the old timer at McNeil, “There were times when I would try to sell Karpis on the things I was learning through Scientology. ‘Kid,’ he would say, ‘your mind is your greatest friend, yet it can be your worst enemy. Don’t let it get any more fucked up than the world has already made it!’”Before being released in 1967, ‘Little Charlie’ told Karpis that he planned on being bigger than The Beatles. By the time Karpis himself was released a couple years later, Manson would be back inside, this time facing the multiple homicide charges that would lead to a heavier sentence than even Alvin Karpis had served. Karpis had written, “The history of crime in the United States might have been considerably altered if ‘Little Charlie’ had been given the opportunity to find fame and fortune in the music industry."


yeah Leary, I agree. Karpis comes off like a kindly old grandfather but those eyes could get damn cold if you stood between him and what he wanted. that dude was a stone cold killer and those peeps of his rival those Manson moonbeams.

johnnyseattle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
johnnyseattle said...

Here is a great gallery of Karpis and check out the fingerprint close up. in those pre DNA days, it was the fingerprints that gotcha.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2012/january/history_012412/gallery

katie8753 said...

Thanks Johnny.

Boy that Karpis was "yooo-gly". And he had "girl fingernails". LOL.

>>>Karpis said that charlie was the last man he would have figured to go into the 'mass murder business.>>>

I guess Karpis didn't know Charlie as well as he thought he did. Or maybe he didn't give a rat's patoot.

As Bugs Bunny used to say "he don't know me very well...do he?"

I think Scientology played a big role in other murders. Gary Hinman for one and Joel Pugh for two......

This is where Brucie-baby starts getting his hands dirty.

johnnyseattle said...

to get those fingerprints erased, he had to dip 'em in an acid concoction after injecting his fingers with cocaine and taking morphine.
it wasn't so much for the actual robberies as he always wore gloves but for the moving around in safe houses, etc he didn't have to worry about getting his fingerprints tying him to a specific locale where a crime occurred.

i think karpis was downplaying what he might have known about charlie in terms of future criminality or just didn't think charlie stuck out in a prison full of felons/bad men.

the scientology angle is damn interesting. and bruce is a wild card for damn sure.

CarolMR said...

I think Charlie went beyond Scientology into the Process Church of the Final Judgement, a violent off-shoot of Scientology. According to author Maury Terry, Charlie was definitely "Processed."

katie8753 said...

Hi Carol! :)

I don't know about Maury Terry, but I do believe that Scientology had a lot to do with what went on in early to latter 1969 with Charlie.

I do know that Bruce was stationed in England furthering that cause.

I don't know a lot about Scientology, but there is one thing I know...the same as any cult...they want your money. Whether it be Scientology or The Process Church.

I think that money was the root of these murders. You can slice it up any way you want to, but I think Charlie needed money to support this "church" or whatever "church" he was following. Not that he was "religious" but that he was following something that he thought had power.

He thought he had special "powers" and I think that he thought they were granted from these "entities".

Whether he thinks that now or not, I don't know.

I know his original followers have pretty much blown him off as to his special "powers". Maybe the newbies think so...pathetic.

I hate to say that the murders of Gary, Sharon, Jay, Voytek, Abigail, Steven P., Mr. & Mrs. LaBianca were all about money. And I believe more.

But I think it's a real possibility.

It cheapens lives....and I don't mean to do that...but it is what it is.

MrPoirot said...

CarolMR said...
I think Charlie went beyond Scientology into the Process Church of the Final Judgement, a violent off-shoot of Scientology. According to author Maury Terry, Charlie was definitely "Processed."

September 25, 2012 8:32 PM
(end quote)

Poirot replies:

Paul Watkins clearly disputes this on the Larry King interview when Maureen Reagan interviewed him.

katie8753 said...

Charles Manson's music SUCKED. But if you can make a hit out of "Ma-na-Ma-na" then you could probably make a hit out of anything in the 60's.

If he really wanted to be a musician bigger than the Beatles, he should have kept after it, instead of killing innocent people because he's just a dweeb.

He's "kind of a drag". LOL.

CarolMR said...

Hi, Katie! I don't think most followers of TLB make a connection between Scientology and the murders. I don't know much about the religion (or cult) either. But I don't think it encourages violence. I guess Charlie, if this was one of the forces that pushed him and the others to kill, took his religion to a whole new level.
Mr. Poirot, did Paul Watkins admit that Charlie was into Scientology at all?

katie8753 said...

Charles Manson was a piss-ant motherfucker, and his crew was headed to the River Styx.

They thought they were "all that". And that he was gonna get them off with his special powers.

That's why they carved "x" in their foreheads and carried on.

But you already knew that....

matt prokes said...

I had posted The Watkins CNN interview on my old youtube channel but it got taken down when the channel got wiped out and i don't think anyone else has reposted it yet.
It is on my dailymotion page,heres the link if anyones interested.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdw5p2_paul-watkins-cnn-interview-part-1

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdw60j_paul-watkins-cnn-interview-part-2

CarolMR said...

Thanks for the link, Matt.

beauders said...

one reason why the murders ceased after the second night according to watson was his mother tried to contact him, and watson used that to say the authorities went to his parents home looking for him in regards to murders in california. also according to watson he told manson of this and that's why the murders stopped and the family went to the desert. totally self serving and most likely total bunk.

Kimchi said...

Hi Beauders.... I agree... For some reason it sees 'ol Tex got scared all of a sudden, which he well should have....that's my thought too why the murders ended after the second night.....even though Shorty came after.... But they thought he was a snitch....which in reality it was Frank Retz....I won't waiver from that....

Kimchi said...

You know Mr. P..... Paul Watkins was a good kid and all, but I don't buy his story....I'm re-reading his book right now and it's so much fluff and him going back and forth with the girls at the trial and such, I really find him hard to believe....but that's just my opinion....

matt prokes said...

Why would he return to the family knowing what he knew unless he was up to something?
I always felt that Watkins made himself out to be more important than he actually was.

Kimchi said...

Yes Matt, I get that feeling too...

katie8753 said...

Chilren were the most important thing to Charlie, according to the "girls".

Charlie didn't spend a dime on children, even after all his posturing on children.

Child support, medical bills, dental bills, eye doctor bills, car insurance, totaled cars, cell phones, gadgets for the internet, gadgets for the phone, gas for the car, insurance for the car, registration for the car, groceries, phone card for prepaid cards, car repairs, repairs on car wrecks, which total $10,000's of dollars.

I know Charlie didn't pay for ANY of that.. I LOVE that bullshit about them loving children. That fucker didn't spend one thin dime on those fuckers.

That ATWA is SO MUCH SHIT IT STINKS!!!

I Dare that ATWA to regurgitate how much they spent on THEIR OWN CHILDREN!!! Let's hear it!!!!

Not ONE THIN DIME!!!

katie8753 said...

These fuckers make me sick bragging about loving children.

Clem loved children. Yeah....Literally into their pants. Sadie claimed she molested her own son, although I'm sure that was pure brag not fact.

The rest of them didn't spend one minute on their children. Or one thin dime.

They make me SICK. A bunch of assholes/losers/child molesters.

I don't want to hear one more word on how much they loved children. It's BULLSHIT.

katie8753 said...

Don't ever have kids. They're leeches.

And don't ever work for yourself. It will lead to the poorhouse. The people you work for don't pay you.

Take it from me.

katie8753 said...

I told my son I can't pay for his doctor visit and meds tomorrow like I usually do and he got mad and left.

Yeah children are a boon. HA HA

Whoever is doing that ATWA crap needs to correct that. Whatever imbecilic asshole is doing that..correct it.

Or do they even mention children now?

They used to mention it a lot. Maybe now they know not to.

ReesesPeace said...

Hey all! I have been sans computer for about 2 weeks and am using a friend's 'puter, getting my jones on. lol

Anyhow, wow! Great threads the last couple weeks. What is drawing me to comment is the psych thread on Tex...I remember when I first read about his describing the people he slaughtered as running around like chickens with their heads cut off. That chilled me then and it still does. Tex and Pat/Katie (whatever she goes by) are the 2 that scare me: they were killing machines. Not taking anything away from the others, but they had something in them, I believe.

Sooo...I'm off to Nags Head...y'all have a great day...loving this weather and I'll be back to get my jones on later!

Matt said...

I wonder if Manson has ever "paid it forward" and taught any young inmates the guitar.

Maybe one day we'll hear about one of them...

johnnyseattle said...

katie
hope things get better.

sunset77 said...

I noticed some more comments about Scientology.

Several months ago a person on another blog was trying to locate a person she thought might have been a member of the Manson family. I did locate that person and sent her an e-mail. (I didn't save the e-mail and I can't remember her name now).

She replied, it turns out she was NOT a member of the Manson family, but she was one of the founding members of Scientology. She said that Manson was never involved in the Church of Scientology as far as she knew. She also said no one in the church would want to be connected to him anyway.

I think at some point she was put on the list of "suppressive persons", (people excommunicated from Scientology). I think she now practices "free zone" Scientology in Oregon. People that practice Scientology on their own.

I'm guessing Manson may have studied Scientology in his jail cell and "declared" himself a Scientologist. There is little or no reference by Manson or his family to Scientology while they were at Spahn that I know of. About the only connection I know of, is apparently Bruce Davis made 2 trips to England to investigate and study Scientology.

Josh Bratt said...

How on Earth can you know what they all spent money on? Katie, how are you SO sure of everything that you "know"? seems you have the case solved. Opinion does not equal fact and though I tend to enjoy your informative moments, the moments of amped up speculation leave something to be desired. Just a thought...here's another......why is this the only case where "he told me to" is a workable defense? lol.....LYNYRD!!!!! KIMCHI!!!!! PEACE!!!! PS Questions tend to be rhetorical

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Josh.

Don't bother yourself.
Katie gets her thong in a twist, a couple evenings a week.
It comes with the landscape.

I've learned to enjoy her positive qualities, and ignore the wild stuff.
Luckily, everyone else seems to do the same.
It's not a perfect system, but it works... and I'm open to any/all better suggestions via email. LOL!

katie8753 said...

Hi Matt. Sorry for your recent loss. I hope all is well. I also hope that Manson did "Pay it forward" as you said.

Johnny, I'm better today. Thanks for asking.

katie8753 said...

My son dropped his I-phone into the Gulf of Mexico and ruined it. He was going to take it to the phone company and see if it could be replaced and it mysteriously disappeared. Yeah....Kids....Oh well...

Hi Josh. From what I've read, any money that Charlie came in contact with he either gave it away or spent it on guns and cars.

Do you have any proof that he paid child support or any other support (medical, insurance, etc.) for his child/children?

beauders said...

katie i believe that atkins was sick enough to sexually assault her son, she had no barriers sexually.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Beauders.

Andy Williams died. I used to love watching his variety show years ago.

TomG said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flm4xcOyiCo

See you on the other side. As Karla Faye Tucker once said, I will see you when you get there. I will wait for you.

bobby said...

hi Katie !

katie8753 said...

Tom, I LOVE that song! Andy Williams was a class act.

He even stood by Claudine Longet's side in her murder trial. What a guy.

Hi Bobby!!! :)

TomG said...

There is always that song in everyone's life, whether you are a good person or bad....

when you look up into the void of that deep dark starry sky and wonder......where do I fit into all of this?

Kimchi said...

All I remember about Andy Williams was when Bobby Kennedy was killed... "Mine eyes have seen the coming".....

Kimchi said...

I think he sang the Battle Hymn of the Republic at Bobby's funeral....

sunset77 said...

I just seen on my homepage news a man dying of cancer says he seen a body being buried in a concrete driveway in 1975. The police seem to think there is a possibility the remains might be Jimmy Hoffa.

There have been many false alarms in that case previously. I think they are supposed to dig up the driveway today.

MrPoirot said...

sunset77 said...
I just seen on my homepage news a man dying of cancer says he seen a body being buried in a concrete driveway in 1975. The police seem to think there is a possibility the remains might be Jimmy Hoffa.

There have been many false alarms in that case previously. I think they are supposed to dig up the driveway today(end quote)

Poirot replies:

This is a job for Buster the Wonderdog!

johnnyseattle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
johnnyseattle said...

if anyone has a garden that needs to be turned over for fall planting, all you gotta do is have grandpa 'recollect' and make a call to the cops...

Melissa Penrod said...

I know this is a very old post but I love to read anything I can find about Karpis. I really dig stories and facts about depression era gangsters. It's really hard to find anything about anyone that isn't Dillinger and half of what you find is contradictory. Karpis definitely fit the description of sociopath. He smirked when he talked about counting up the total of how many people he killed. He seemed perplexed that some people have a conscience because he did not. Also Mary Kinder was actually Harry Pierpont's girlfriend and helped execute the escape plan from Michigan City Prison.