Saturday, July 7, 2012

Regarding Kasabian in the comments section...
Lynyrd's Thoughts:

I have reservations, regarding Kasabian.

She was pretty messed-up before she even got to the ranch. She was no hapless "Snow White", that's for dang sure. She was involved in these murders no matter how you slice it, and hence, is a criminal in her own right.

Bugliosi loved to say:
"Linda was cut from a different cloth".
I think her "cloth" was much more similar (to the others), than Bugliosi portrayed.
"Birds of a feather", as it were...

Bugliosi knew, that painting Linda as "a cut above" would make her a more credible witness in the eyes of the jury... and hence, make her more valuable to his prosecution. Her "squeaky clean persona" was carefully planned and orchestrated.

Folks always hound Bugliosi about "Helter Skelter", but I submit... his portrayal of Kasabian as a hapless victim of circumstance, may have been his greatest distortion and fabrication, of all.

Of all the pieces of shit to choose from... yeah... I probably would have used Kasabiam myself, as a prosecutor. She was "less guilty" than the others... but c'mon... how far does "less guilty" take ya?
As Marlin said:
"How far can you carry empathy?"

I'm very pleased that Kasabian did, in fact, testify and jail these criminals. 
But, one has to ask:
Did she testify "just to be a nice girl"???
OR... did she "turn state's evidence", to save her own skin???
If you look at her track record of decision-making before, during, and after the murders... the answer to that question, is pretty clear.

It's also worth noting here:
If Kasabian had foolishly NOT "taken the deal"... (and make no mistake folks, it was a deal no matter how you slice it)... Bugliosi would have turned on her immediately, and prosecuted her to the full extent of the law, just like all the others.
You would have seen "Linda" painted in a totally different light by Bugs... and that's worthy of thought and clarification.
Love him or hate him... Bugluiosi was, in fact, a very effective lawyer.. and Kasabian (a criminal in her own right), would have done time.

I'm not a huge "Linda fan".

67 comments:

leary7 said...

I fear I have given her the benefit of the doubt in the past because we are both from New Hampshire. And her plea to Sadie to "make it stop" has always resonated with me. But as many have pointed out there are many marks against her starting with the promiscuity (but then who wasn't then) and not taking off while in the car waiting for the killers and of course going out on the second night and leaving her daughter behind etc etc.
She certainly was no Mary Ellen Walton. But obviously the Bug made a smart choice given most who saw her testify said she was very credible. I doubt they would have said the same about any of the others.

katie8753 said...

Well, Bugliosi first chose Susan to testify against the others, and she backed out. He then offered it to Leslie, and she balked. Enter...Linda.

Bugliosi needed someone to testify against the others. No doubt about it. I'm not faulting him as a prosecuting attorney. He knew they were all guilty and wanted to convict them.

I will say this...that Bugliosi is a brilliant attorney. He did his job, did his homework, spent countless hours on this case and finally won. Kudos to him.

I don't like what he did in his personal life, but that has nothing to do with his prosecution of this case.

As for Linda, she's not a "shining example" by any means. Leary, I'm not even talking about her promiscuity. She leeched onto these losers in July of 1969, and if she was a clear minded human being, would never have allowed her daughter to become enmeshed into this nonsense in the first place.

Oh yeah, I know....the hippies did such and such.

Well, this was a cult. And she should have known that from the get-go. No watches, driver's licenses, glasses. You and your daughter are now separated. That was nonsense. She should have bolted then.

And if she bought into that as long as the drugs were free, then how is she any better than the others?

She stole $5000 from her husband's friend because these "new friends" told her to, which makes her a thief.

katie8753 said...

Oops...did I say Leslie....I meant to say horseteeth. HA HA.

Dilligaf said...

Here's the rub. As prosecutors, you do not get to choose your witnesses, many times they are not much better than those that you are attempting to convict. Many "star" witnesses for the prosecution are in fact, criminally minded themeselves. They choose to testify for many different reasons, self-preservation toppinng the list. Some witnesses do have a modicum of conscience or values which can appear at the strangest time, but while appreciated and useful, those morals/values still take a backseat to saving one's own hide.

It is not only the defense that will attempt to rehabilitate a witness, either before or after direct testimony. LK is no different. She was(is) damaged goods, she was involved, by a lessor degree in the murders, however, more value was gained by utilizing her as a witness rather than prosecuting her with the rest. As I have said many times, if one does not understand chess, than one should not be in a courtroom.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Dilligaf said:
"more value was gained by utilizing her as a witness rather than prosecuting her with the rest."

That's a great point.
That pretty much encompassses the entire situatuion in a nutshell.

Thanks for your post Dilligaf!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Poirot said (on the previous thread):

"Bug was initially overwhelmed at his appointment as Chief Prosecutor after the first Chief Pros was unfairly dismissed(Stovall?sp). Can you imagine what would have happened if Sadie had remained the state's chief witness?(no guilty verdicts that's for sure)Can you imagine a Sadie May Glutz free on the streets of America? It is easy to imagine that Bug is probably still breathing a sigh of relief that Sadie turned back to being loyal to Charlie thus forcing Bug to use Linda as his main witness".

Poirot... I agree.
In retrospect... it's safe to assume that things did indeed, turned-out for the best.

I'm sure Bugliosi himself, would agree... that Kasabian was ultimately more useful to the prosecution, than Susan would have been.

ST. Circumstance said...

People have done much worse than Linda and cut deals...

that is not the first or last time- scum avoids trouble by talking

But this girl was much like the rest of them- I think their are about 15 to 20 other girls who would not have had the nerve to actually stab anyone...

Sadie herself- has had quite a few chances to kill someone with not actually doing it...

she was a drugged up sexed out wanderer who had more concern for her own gratification, than the welfare of her child....

look at the life linda and her kid have led since...

she never grew out of being a scum.
she never made anything of her new lease on life...

she was and is a total loser and waste of life...

her whole insolvent with the family started with her ripping off friends for poeple she had just met...

she didn't kill anyone???

she drove them there
she didn't try to stop them
she let them go back a second night without reporting them


she abandoned her child with people she knew were killers and dangerous.

then she went about wasting away the rest of her life on hard drugs and petty crimes...

the TLB thing was just a small detour for her- and then back to life and business as usual...

this is an egg the ooompa loompas would have rejected

ST. Circumstance said...

Guys...

they had Charlie - and it wouldn't have mattered if they had a chief witness or not...

He didn't need a turncoat or a motive...

that stuff helped him make millions...

he had bloody clothes and fingerprints and the suspects acting like mad people in front of the jury...

when you have crimes that sick- and the people you can place at the crime acting that crazy....

It isn't hard to get people to help you lock them away from the rest of us....

people mention other slam dunks...

OJ- Casey Anthony...

they all tired like hell to look straight honest and did everything to help their attorneys...

not the same thing at all....

This case made a name of Bugs and he made a legend of this case

but any John Doe lawyer with a degree could have put them away

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Just for fun... I like to speculate about this:

IF Kasabian had turned-down the deal... how would Bugliosi have portrayed her to the jury, while prosecuting her?

I think Kasabian would have been painted by Bugliosi, as the "promiscuous, run-away, neglectful mother... who acted as the driver, and criminal lookout".

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Folks...
I lost my uncle a couple days ago... and will be attending the wake this evening, and the funeral tomorrow morning.

My participation here, will be fairly sparse for a day or two...

Carry-on folks!

Peace!

ST. Circumstance said...

So very sorry for your Loss L/S

best wishes and I hope your family will get through this as best as possible...

Keep your head up Brother :) !!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thank You Saint... much appreciated.

starship said...

So sorry, Lynyrd.

katie8753 said...

I'm just going from memory here and need to look it up in Helter Skelter, but I think that Bugliosi thought that using Susan was abhorrent and it was Stovitz' idea to use her, and Bugliosi was relieved when she backed out of the deal.

I'll bet if she had gone through with it and was spared the death penalty that she would have eventually been paroled before she died. She could have used that in her hearings that she turned them all in and she was rehabilitated.

katie8753 said...

Lynyrd, I hope you're okay......

MrPoirot said...

ST. Circumstance said...
People have done much worse than Linda and cut deals...

......her whole insolvent with the family started with her ripping off friends for poeple she had just met...

Poirot replies:

Linda and her hubby were gong to take a long ocean voyage by buying a sailboat. There had been a vote taken by this group Linda was in and Linda had been blackballed from the sailing excursion but her hubby intended on going on the crise while leaving Linda behind. She had been cast out. She became a Robinson Crusoe before she even got on board the boat.

Having become a castaway she fled to the Family. She was angry at her hubby and his friends for tossing her out of the group. The money she stole was probably her share of her husband's inheritance windfall.

I'm not defending Linda. It is likely that she was blaclballed because she was difficult to deal with. On a small 26ft sailboat an argumentitive person like Linda would have made life unendurable on board during an extended voyage.

ST. Circumstance said...

so this is a good excuse to steal from people you know why???

if my neighbors decide not to invite me to picnics anymore- can I break into there houses???

She had every right to be pissed at her husband/friends

every right to leave and go on with her life to other people...

no right to steal from them

ST. Circumstance said...

so this is a good excuse to steal from people you know why???

if my neighbors decide not to invite me to picnics anymore- can I break into there houses???

She had every right to be pissed at her husband/friends

every right to leave and go on with her life to other people...

no right to steal from them

ST. Circumstance said...

wow Im double vision on both sites tonight...

this is really good stuff...

ST. Circumstance said...

Katie- I think I have solved the problem of being ignored on Liz's site lol

sigh

why dont I just put my computer away on nights like tonight?

when I was younger I had to hide my phone so when I got in drunk at night - I wouldn't call girls I didn't want to apologize to the next day...

now I have to do it with my laptop- so I dont get myself tossed out of Manson blogs...

I have grown so tremendously as a person after all of these years...

lol

oh well as long as there is always a room for drunken inbreds....

I guess I will always be o.k.

MrPoirot said...

ST. Circumstance said...
so this is a good excuse to steal from people you know why???

if my neighbors decide not to invite me to picnics anymore- can I break into there houses???

She had every right to be pissed at her husband/friends

every right to leave and go on with her life to other people...

no right to steal from them

July 13, 2012 7:14

Poirot replies:

She was married to the guy who inherited the money. Legally as his wife the money($20,000) was part hers. She took $5000 of the $20000.
I never said it was right nor do I care if it was right. You are trying to claim I am justifying her actiona. I merely filled in Linda's stepss in that short period of time prior to her joining the Family up to the the first week she became a Family member.

Would it make you feel better if I said it was wrong for her to take the money?. Would that make you happy? Well I'm not going to say it was wrong because that won't change her actions. She did what she did.

katie8753 said...

ST CIRCUMSTANCE!!! HA HA HA.

You always lift my spirits and help me see the lighter side of life! LOL. God Love ya!

katie8753 said...

>>>Mr. P said: She was married to the guy who inherited the money. Legally as his wife the money($20,000) was part hers. She took $5000 of the $20000.>>>

I thought she stole it from her husband's friend????

ST. Circumstance said...

Im just saying it was wrong and makes her a not very nice person...

among other resasons

that's all :)

ST. Circumstance said...

She went and took it without asking-

even if they split the matrimonial assets 50/50 lol

I doubt they went to that trouble..

no problem with just going and taking it????

if she herself didn't think it was a problem- why not just ask for it???

not really in her nature or character in my opinion...

petty piece of shit crook and looser

katie8753 said...

Mr. P., according to Ed Sanders, Bob Kasabian's friend, Charles Melton had inherited around $23,000. He was going to use some of that to finance the boat trip to South America. When Linda went to Charles' house to get her possessions, she helped herself to "Melton's duffel bag and removed a Velvet tobacco pouch containing fifty $100 bills that she took to Chatsworth to give to the Wizard: $5,000.00"

That's on page 154 of The Family, Copyright 2002.

katie8753 said...

So the money didn't belong to her at all. She just stole it....

Marliese said...

Sincere sympathy, Lynyrd, for you and your family.

ST. Circumstance said...

I know it wasn't her husbands money lol

but my point is - would it have mattered...

even if you are entitled...

you dont just take do you?

to bring back so you can fuck Charlie and Tex

yuck

Marliese said...

katie8753 said...>>>>>

I thought she stole it from her husband's friend????<<<<<


She testified that she stole it from Charles Melton...a friend of her husband's who was living with Linda and her husband in their truck. What a life, huh?

katie8753 said...

The lovely Marliese!! Thanks Marliese!! :)

ST. Circumstance said...

The lovely Katie and Marliese...

more than we should ought to be able to ask for...

my ladies...

katie8753 said...

St., I think when Linda took that money, it was a "screw you" move on her part. But it shows that she had no moral factors working for her.

People like to say that she was a good mother. HA HA.

The first thing she did when she moved into the "spook farm" was relinquish her daughter because "they said". As a mother, I find that despicable. There's no one on earth who could talk me into that. According to Sanders, when she gave up her DL, watch and personal effects, she was also told not to speak English to Tanya.

Now that is one ZANY family!!! Red lights should have been going off everywhere!! LOL.

Marliese said...

katie8753 said...>>>>>
So the money didn't belong to her at all. She just stole it....<<<<<


Hi Katie...i think our posts crossed. :)

That's right, she just stole it. She had no right to that money.

ST. Circumstance said...

Yes Katie...

I think you are right

Marliese said...

ST. Circumstance said...>>>>>
I know it wasn't her husbands money lol

but my point is - would it have mattered...

even if you are entitled...

you dont just take do you?<<<<<



St. Circumstance...I love it when you're on the blogs...you make everything all better all the time.

You're right, even if she was entitled, you don't just take it.
But she did. Because she was a flake. And a cheat. And a thief.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Marliese.

Yes she had no rights to that money at all. She flat out stole it.

Sanders said she got pregnant when she first got to the "funny farm" by one of the regulars. She claims that it was Bobby's.

Isn't that funny. After she describes this "one of a kind experience" with Tex, the baby is suddenly Bobby's?

I contend that she was already pregnant when she got there. The baby was probably good ole boy Bob Kasabian's.

Just another baby who can't possibly figure out who his/her Daddy is because the mother was screwing so many people every day.

Pathetic.

I can't imagine, in any depth of my inner self, how ANYONE could live the kind of life they were living. I mean even long before the murders. It just boggles my mind. Many of these kids were from families with lots of money.

The ones who came from nothing (like Susan) I guess I can kind of understand it, since I haven't been in that situation.

katie8753 said...

Brian, I answered your e-mail but I don't know if it went thru. Did you get it???

This new-fangled e-mail. GRRR..

katie8753 said...

Lynyrd call me. :)

katie8753 said...

Night y'all....

adam said...

I could have never survived living with The Family, because as much as I loved the weed it would always give me the mega munchies. Pizzas ,crisps, cakes, chocolate, I would just stuff my face when high.

What would you be able to eat at the Ranch when you had an attack of the munchies? Mouldy old vegetables and Sadie's ranchid pussy.

P.S. That photo of Linda - what a fuckin' hideous bitch she was. Honestly I would'nt use that face to wipe my boots with.

beauders said...

i don't know if you realize this but charles melton was known as blackbeard charles and was good friends with little paul watkins. as an aside blackbeard was arrested in my hometown, half moon bay, ca. for pot possession, while hanging out and traveling with Watkins. all these little groups of "hippies" knew each other is what i'm trying to get at.

beauders said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MrPoirot said...

Katie you quoted from "THE FAMILY" by Ed Sanders. So which is it? are books worthless or biblical canon?

Linda was blackballed from the ocean voyage. She was a S California castaway. She either legally or illegaly got $5000 from her "group" who had cast her aside
(rightfully so) and she joined the very expensive Manson Country Club which offered her group rape, acid, mass murder and eco friendly dumpster vegatables.

Linda's hubby did dump her. Linda was a castaway. Her hubby was going on the sea voyage without Linda. Gypsy described Linda as "always acting tough". I take Gypsie's quote from her latest appearance on primetime tv from maybe a couple of years ago.

When Linda did arrive in Taos post Cielo her hubby already had a new girl. At Taos she told the commune leader whom told Bug or an LAPD det that she watched Steven Parent walking with a briefcase(clockradio?) from the main house to his car.

dinggo said...

Hey, cut St. Linda some slack. On making good her escape, she stole the new ranch hand's car and drove it towards Taos until the gas ran out. Then after making it to Taos, she mailed the keys back with an apology letter. May be a "simple" car theft, but she's shown more remorse with that one apology letter than the other miscreants have, combined, in their entire lives.

And as I said last time, well, let's assume that she ought to have done as some suggest. So she should have fled the scene in the car and got the cops, whatever. She didn't do that. Now she lives with that guilt and her life is witness to that. And note that while she has been free, that her violent conduct has been nil or virtually nil. And unlike some others who wear that same reality as a badge before the parole board, she hasn't been living in a controlled environment.

TomG said...

If given a second chance, my bet would be that Atkins, Krenwinkel or Van Houten would have lived far more productive and law-abiding lifes than Linda Kasabian......who at the end of the day is a drug addicted trailer park ho.

As if we don't have enough of them.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thank You Starship and Marliese for your kind words... your sympathies and thoughts, are much appreciated.

Great to have you on the blog Marliese!

MrPoirot said...

One of the most repeated testimony stories of all is the story of Parent's headlights suddenly approaching just after the killers jumped the fence. I doubt this is true at all because of what Linda told the commune leader in Taos which was radically different from what she testified in court.

The commune leader stated to Bug or and LAPD Det that Linda told him that they jumped the fence and sat in the bushes as they watched a man with a briefcase walk all the way from the main house to his car. The man got in his car and then drove up to Tex who then shot the man. Linda obviously never knew the briefcase was a clockradio.

It is not likely the comune leader made up such a detailed story. I think Linda told the commune leader the truth in Taos but told a truncated story in court as did Sadie and all the others who claim the car "suddenly appeared". That car didn't "suddenly appear".

It is highly likely that Steven Parent saw the killers from the main house just as well as the killers saw him. This means Parent saw the phone lines had been cut and laying on the ground. It means that the killers watched Parent's car jump the curb and knock down the fence. This means Parent was already in a panic before he got in his car. It explains why Parent drove backwards, jumped the curb, knocked down the splitrail fence and nicked up the cement curb as well as scratched up the underside of his car. Parent was in a life or death rush to get off the property and only stopped when he saw the gun Tex had in his hand.

I think the ever truthful little hippie chick Linda Kasabian lied about nearly all of her steps at Cielo in her court testimony. Because of Linda's story she told in Taos I have always greatly suspected that Linda did lie in court when she claimed she never entered Cielo that night. I greatly suspect that Manson was being honest in Emmon's book when he told Emmons that Linda was in the house at one point. I feel that Tex told Charlie that Linda was in the house. Tex most likely did tell Charlie this as soon as he was debriefed by Charlie immediately after the murders.

Somewhere on the Colonel's blog there still remains the transcript of Linda's tale she told in Taos.

MrPoirot said...

For some reason, Bug never subpeanaed the Taos commune leader who most likely was was the firat outsider who was made aware of who murdered the people at Cielo.

I;d love to hear somebody interview the Taos commune leader today. I'll bet he's still alive.

MrPoirot said...

My guess s that the Taos commune leader was never subpeanaed by Bug because Linda told him she went in the Cielo house that night. It's probable that Linda told other selfincriminating details in Taos. Linda may have been a participant in the actual violence. Remember now, nobody knows who put the towel on Jay's head. Other things as well occurred in that house which were never assigned to Tex, Sadie or Patricia.

dinggo said...

TomG: I've no doubt that if some had a do-over, they'd have been a little slicker with the act and so have avoided Manson's negative critique of their performance (nothing quite like being found wanting in the eyes of your messiah). That's as far as I'm willing to go.

I'd otherwise rather be a trailer park ho than an unrepentant sociopath. And make no mistake, the three you speak of, well, one died an unrepentant sociopath and the other two remain so.

And so there is no mistake, we don't have the M16 simply and only because we like to avoid our own bodily mortality and so we kill at a distance. No. Also have the M16 since that spares us from having to view the horror we've inflicted, and so we remain more psychologically intact. Or if you prefer, the M16 allows us to kill from a distance rather than up close and personal, thereby saving our conscious from having to witness the consequence of the act.

As noted by Dr. McDanial, well, he simply could never understand how Patricia wasn't disturbed by all the blood-letting. And the difference between her and St. Linda is that she killed the first night while St. Linda didn't, and then on the 2nd night, St. Linda went along for the ride while Patricia went for some more bloodletting.

By the way, for how disturbed her mind:

"We were just like wood nymphs and wood creatures. We would run through the woods with flowers in our hair, and Charles would have a small flute"

For more of Patricia on forest nymphs and wood creatures:

http://tinyurl.com/832hdpt

Lastly, for how little they understand, simply recall Susan's response to the query over her one prison infraction for abusing her phone privileges. According to Susan, she did in on an "impulse". Just what we wanted to hear from the homicidal maniac, that she has poor impulse control.

dinggo said...

Mr.Poirot:

Linda stayed at Mr. Sage’s residence for several more weeks. During this time, Linda seemed upset over another matter and questioned intensely by Joe Sage and Jeffrey Jacobs, regarding this. Toward the end of her stay at Sages residence, she finally agreed to inform him of her problem. At that time, she stated to Mr. Sage that she had been involved in some homicides with other people.

So early indicia of remorse. And the story is confused, by the way:

At that time, she observed a male wearing glasses and carrying a briefcase coming out of the house. This male walked toward the gate at which time he was shot and killed by one of her male companions.

So he was shot walking towards the gate and not driving. And note the male companions, since this same fellow has Linda with another woman and two men. And so he goes on to say:

Mr. Sage stated that he has a very poor memory and does not recall her exact conversation and is not sure if she actually said there were two males and two females involved and does not recall anything further about her conversation . Mr. Sage stated that he did not believe Linda’s story about the killings and attempted to question her further. He noted many discrepancies in Linda’s story. Linda continued to insist that the story was true and that it could be verified by various people at the Spahn Ranch in CA. Sage asked Linda to telephone the Spahn Ranch to verify this story. Linda dialed the number in CA and talked to someone for several minutes. Joe Sage then took the phone from Linda and talked to a female on the other end of the line and asked her whether her story regarding the killings was true. The female at the other end of the line stated that Linda was nuts and that she often fabricated stories. At that time, Sage believed the female on the other end of the telephone and did not question Linda further. Several days after this telephone conversation, Linda left the Taos area enroute to New Hampshire.

katie8753 said...

>>>Mr. P said: The commune leader stated to Bug or and LAPD Det that Linda told him that they jumped the fence and sat in the bushes as they watched a man with a briefcase walk all the way from the main house to his car.>>>

He wouldn't be walking from the main house...he was in the guest house.

andy said...

i believe in HS linda says she wouldve talked without a deal. her lawyer held out.

katie8753 said...

Hi Andy. I believe you're right!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Andy.

I've read (or heard) that somewhere myself... but, I can't recall where or when...

Things start to blend together after a while.

Do you remember the source?

andy said...

i think it was Helter Skelter. I definitely remember it from the HS movie from 1976.

andy said...

im not really a linda supporter, nor am i one of these people that cant seem to stand her. but ill say this. its easy to comment on her life (post murders)and looks when its all public knowledge. but after the life she lead and what she saw that night i dont think anyone really has the right to judge. how many soldiers come home from war and turn to drugs and other less then noble things to try to deal with what theyve seen? im not comparing her to a soldier but i know for sure she saw people she considered friends commit some of the most gruesome murders in american history. how shes dealt with it is on her. As for the comments on her appearance, its easy to rip people apart hiding behind your computer. id love to see what some of you look like

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

If not for the deal she was given... I believe Linda was facing jail time as a criminal.
I think that's a pretty safe assumption.
If we can agree on that notion... then we're in agreement, that Linda was (in fact) a criminal at the time of the trial.

On the other hand:
She did have more of a conscience than the others... and the Nader situation illustrates that fact pretty directly.

In the most basic terms:
Linda wasn't exactly "all good", or "all bad".
She wasn't the epitomy of either extreme.

Linda's character really becomes a "glass half full"... or "glass half empty" proposition.
There's really no other way, to slice the pie.

And Bugliosi... as one would expect... emphasized the "glass half full" perception, to support his case.
Again... I think that's a pretty safe assumption.
Why would he do otherwise?

Linda wasn't "as bad" as some of the others... but, she certainly left quite a bit, to be desired.
And not being "as bad", as some of the worst cretons on earth, is really not that great of a feat.

As I said... I have mixed emotions regarding Kasabian.

As for her physical appearance Andy... I've never commented.
You can search the blog on that issue... you won't find anything.

Fact is...
I actually find her quite attractive as a young woman.
She's certainly better-looking than "Mother Mary", Pat... and a couple of the others.

I would have "hit it" for sure... and it seems, I'm not alone in that thought, as she was quite promiscuous, with evidently no shortage of men or lovers...

Peace!

MrPoirot said...

Dinggo said:
(quote)At that time, she observed a male wearing glasses and carrying a briefcase coming out of the house.(end quote)


Poirot replies:

Again there is the Taos commune leader(Sage) describing a tale told to him by Linda. Linda saw a man with a briefcase walking from the house. This shows again that the Killers most likely spotted Parent before he got to his car. The carlights did not "suddenly appear" as Linda and others have stated ad nauseum in court and n prson interviews.(Sadie described the carlights "suddenly appearing" in a 1976 interview now on youtube.
The killers knew a car was leaving because they saw Parent as soon as he became visable to anyone in the parking lot/gate area.

This part of Linda's court testimony is in question. She condenses the story in court and just says that carlights "suddenly appeared". That parking lot was a small area no more than 100 feet long. The killers could even had heard Parent's footsteps at night at that proximity.

All of Sages descriptions of what Linda told him correctly placed a briefcase(clockradio) in Parent's hands. Sage may not have remembered how many men and women were with Linda but he definantly made a point of remembering an unmistakable detail which could only have been Parent walking to his car carrying something. Sage's words reveal that the killers knew a car was leaving. The carlights did not surprise the. The killers were EXPECTING CARLIGHTS.

Why did Linda falsify this seemingly insignificant moment? To me, this indicates Linda's testimony was coached or rehearsed. Why?

MrPoirot said...

Bug may have coached Lindas condensed version because the defense was not made aware of all of Bug's evidence. Vince did not give everything to the defense as required by law. The Bug was trying to avoid a mistrial thus he coached Linda.

adam said...

andy said...

As for the comments on her appearance, its easy to rip people apart hiding behind your computer.

Fun too.

beauders said...

steve hodel now believes that not only was his father the black dahlia killer but that he's also the zodiac killer.

fiona1933 said...

No, no, if Linda hadn't taken the deal, what would Bugliosi have had to go on?

He's very clear in Helter Skelter that "if Susan bolts back to Charlie, Linda may be our only hope.

"If your not saying what your saying there would be no tryle" said one of Manson's notes to Linda and I guess that's true.

As for painting Linda as an angel , I read in Bonfire Of The Vanities this is called 'lighting up your witness' by lawyers. It's a phrase used when a lawyer has to use some unsavoury character to prosecute other unsavoury characters and so has to convince himself that his gang-banger witness is just a poor, misled boy, with real talents, while his gang-banger pals are really evil. Same thing here.

fiona1933 said...

I call Linda more guilty, not less. Susan and Katie, inside the house, could not have run if they'd wanted to. Tex and his .22 would have done for them. Linda had a clear escape route and the keys to hand. Obviously, Tex trusted she wouldn't run.

So the alternative Linda scenario is that she, together with Tex, picked the house due to a drug burn,
sharpened the weapons,
cleverly kept herself out of the actual killings, robbed Parent,
kept lookout,
did not run for help,
went into the house in the middle of the murder and still did not run,
was completely collected, helping to dispose of the bloody clothes, and stuff,
went the next night,
lined up Nader for murder as he had not brought her to orgasm,
she, Sadie and Clem clearly weren't able to do it without Tex and Sadie had actually crapped herself, subsequently left Spahn Ranch, deserting her daughter, probably expecting arrests,
did not turn herself in til she absolutely had to,
was lucky enough to get a good lawyer who looked out for her (contrast Cabellero 's attitude to Susan, he should have advised her to keep quiet!) who got her total immunity,
master psychologist Bugliosi, realising it's better to give a jury a good/evil dichotomy, instead of just using evil to convict evil, spins Linda as the angel of light, innocent, helpless, docile and pregnant,
he could have painted her as Yana the witch and still given her immunity, but it sure wouldnt make the world happy to see her walk out,
Linda got everything. A free pass in every way. and what did she do with it? she developed methamphetamine addiction, had multiple police run-ins, got her daughters into trouble, certainly was dealing, the whole thing just makes the Tate drug burn so much more likely, wound up in a trailer park and had to be hushed by Bug when she went on TV when she spilled out the robbing Parent bit. she came over as hard as nails. Whereas Pat Krenwinkel comes over as devastated with remorse, Leslie has starved herself, Susan...well, Susan went to Jesus too fast to get to the remorse stage, but all three have done good works and led helpful and productive lives.

fiona1933 said...

Plus, Linda certainly blackened the others. It's only Linda who said that they were acting as if it was "all a game" on the way back from Tate. Susan, in contrast, said, "I almost passed out. I felt as if I had killed myself' and of Pat, she said: "Patricia was very silent". Back at the ranch, Susan did pass out, not even knowing if Clem was having sex with her, and during the La Bianca ride, she did the same, winding up with nearly shitting herself on Nader's doorstep. Susan also said she and Katie would look at each other all the time, both knowing what was the "utmost thing on our minds."
Contrast Linda: she turned up high and happy at her dad's house, disgusting him with rhapsodizing about the Family and appeared in high spirits to everyone she met. She turned herself in only when she had to. Her demeanour during trial was very collected, no sign of trauma at all, whereas the other three were clearly on another planet, Susan looking as if she might "start screaming and never stop".

fiona1933 said...

Poirot, I never heard that "panicked Steven' scenario before. It is fascinating. You put it together so well. Add his anguished "Please! don't hurt me! I won't say anything!"
Somehow, I feel this is very compatible with the stories of the Polanski house being a centre for 'living freaky' cf, the neighbour who said rough characters would often show up at her house, lost on the way to the Polanski's, and Joan Didion's chilling comment : "what I remember, and I wish I did not, is that no-one was surprised" by the massacre. That's how violent the hippy/beautiful people world had become. Look what happens when people turn on, tune in and drop out. There go the societal controls.
So perhaps Parent wasn't surprised either. Maybe Garretson had told him of the shady types hanging around, and when he saw 4 of them standing by the bushes, oh God, imagine his heart-stopping panic. But wouldn't he have dropped the radio? Perhaps he put it on the seat, and saw them as he lifted his head. And saw the phone lines too....only one reason to do that