Tuesday, March 6, 2012

Debra Tate Issues Official Statement
Regarding Alisa Statman's Book:
"
Restless Souls: The Sharon Tate Family's Account of Stardom,
the Manson Murders, and a Crusade for Justice"

It Books/HarperCollins Published February 21, 2012

As Sharon Tate’s only surviving sister and closest living relative, honor and our family name compels me to make a statement about the new book Restless Souls: The Sharon Tate Family’s Account of Stardom, the Manson Murders, and a Crusade for Justice by Alisa Statman with Brie Tate, published in February 2012 by IT Books for HarperCollins Publishers.

This book publishes accounts of our family story attributed to my mom, my dad, and to my sister Patti, all deceased. Comparison of the original manuscripts and papers by my mom, dad, and Patti in my possession with the published text in this book is currently underway. Ms. Statman says, on page xiv, that she was “left to fill in the gaps” with her “own personal interpretation.” If facts in the book are wrong, readers might well question precisely how much Ms. Statman’s “personal interpretation” has intruded into this work.

Statements, sentiments, and alleged memories in this book appearing under Patti’s name, often contradict other known records of Patti. Patti had few substantial memories of Sharon and could only recall isolated incidents of our sister Sharon’s life that do not resemble the lengthy saga in these pages. Sections dealing with my sister Sharon’s life away from our family circle include verbatim conversations without attribution and statements whose veracity is in doubt. Just doing a simple overview of this book, we've found many egregious errors, too numerous to list.

Alisa Statman presents herself in this book as a “close family friend” and insinuates that she speaks on behalf of my family. Readers should know that Ms. Statman has a long and troubling history involving my family’s tragedy. Unfortunately Ms. Statman made the decision to go against Patti's expressed wishes that her children never be involved in the Manson saga, by using my impressionable niece’s name to lend credence to the book that she has long wanted to write.

I reject this book. I regard it as an insult to the memory of my parents and my two beloved sisters, filled, as it is, with un-attributed conversations, imagined thoughts, and demonstrably false incidents. It represents merely the latest in a long string of efforts by Ms. Statman to insinuate herself into my family’s life and history, present herself as an expert on the subject, realize her long dream to write about my family’s tragedy, and diminish my continued role as guardian of our family’s legacy.

Soon I will make the full story of my family and our tragedy public in a definitive way. Until then, and for as long as I live, I will honor my family’s memory by continuing to work on behalf of our legacy and other victims of violent crime.

Debra Tate
March 6, 2012
==================================================================
Official Statement Found Here:

102 comments:

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Wow...

Katie was JUST saying the other day... that she'd LOVE to here from Debra on this topic... and Voila!

katie8753 said...

This is GREAT!!! I wanted to hear what Debra had to say about this book. I'm really hoping that she comes up with a book to tell HER side of the story.

A story ALWAYS has two sides.

I have found numerous discrepancies in this book which at times were just irritating, and other times ridiculous.

I've read this book, and have gone thru with a red pen and made notes.

I will post those notes regarding the erroneous information reflected in this book in the next few days.

I said before, if you just want to read a fictional account of what happened, this book is for you.

BUT...if you're trying to get to the truth...you won't find it with this book!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I haven't read the book yet... although, I've ordered it.

Without reading the book, my general thoughts are as follows:

As close as Alisa proports to be with the Tate family...
Debra IS (in fact) immediate Tate family.
Biologically, that's a fact.
If it's true... that Debra is legally disinherited, disowned... or whatever... it doesn't matter, in regards to fact recall or memories.
Immediate family doesn't forget facts or memories, because of legal disinheritance.

No one will ever know my blood brothers the way I do... regardless of whether I'm disinherited, or not.
That's a fact.

Heck...
I shared a bed with my oldest brother... 'cuz, we didn't have enough beds or bedrooms to go around... and my Mom threw us in the same bath-tub together as kids.
We were even dressed alike for a few years! YIKES!
It's safe to say... I knew my brothers "biblically". LOL

Bottom line:
Family is family...

No one will ever convince me otherwise...

For this reason alone...
I think one HAS to give Debra's opinion some serious thought, credence and consideration... to be sensible about the whole issue.

I'm looking forward to reading the book myself... to discern (for myself)... what's really going-on here...

Peace... Lynyrd

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Sorry...

That's... Katie would love to "hear" from Debra Tate... not "here". LOL

katie8753 said...

I will say one thing for now, and I'm surprised that no one else has brought this up.

Starting on page 297, it says that Patti has not read anything about the murders, and decides to "dust off" the book "Helter Skleter" written by Bugliosi.

The account that follows is so ridiculous that I can't even imagine where Alisa got it. It has NOTHING to do with the book Helter Skelter.

It states that Parent was shot 3 times and he peed his pants.

It also goes into conversations between the killers and the victims that I've never seen before. The only survivors who could even relate that are the killers.

Where did she get that information? Not from Helter Skelter.

I will enumerate these discrepancies page by page tomorrow.

MrPoirot said...

Tranlation: Brie has beaten Debra to the bookstore shelves and is getting richer as we speak. Damn!

Get writing, Debra. I've heard that Buster, the cadaver dog, has a book ready to hit the shelves. It's a story about the 2,471 bodies buried around Barker Ranch and how Buster was never given his contractual milkbones promised for each body he located.

katie8753 said...

Mr P., while I understand your thoughts, I can't understand why you would think the meanderings of a "life partner" and a girl too young to know anything about this case would overshadow the actual lone survivor of this family.

Who do you think is profiteering here? Debra...or Alisa?

leary7 said...

I got a bad feeling about this. You know how the Col feels about Debra. This whole thing could devolve into a blog war between the pro-Alisa faction and the pro-Debra folk.
At least now with Katie on the case we will get some hard facts. Hey, that's a good title for her blog - Katie On The Case.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I don't know Poirot...

In 40+ years... has Debra ever made any real attempt to profit financially from the murders?

I can see how one might accuse Debra of being a "media hound"... as, has often been proported in the past...

I can also see how one might accuse Debra of (sadly) suffering some mental and emotional damage from the murders (through no fault of her own)... again... as has often been proported in the past...

But, competing with Brie for money?

Hmm...

That doesn't seem like a likely motive for her statement to me.

Debra could have written a book for profit at any point, over the last four decades, if book sales were her goal.

More importantly...
SEVERAL books have already been written on this topic.
This is FAR from the first book written on this subject... and very likely, not the last.

I'm just not buying your assertion...

leary7 said...

Speaking of profiteering Katie, how do we find out specifically how Alisa's book is selling? Everyone seems to assume it is a given the book will be profitable. I would sure love to see some hard evidence of that. Book sales figures seem impossible to get on the net. I've been told you have to call the publishing company of the book to get them. Anyone know how that Canadian psych nurse's book sold?

leary7 said...

Or Hendrikson's "Death To Pigs" for that matter.
Anyone???

MrPoirot said...

katie8753 said...
Mr P., while I understand your thoughts


Poirot repies:

I wasn't aware I was thinking.

katie8753 said...

Leary, I'm about to retire for the evening and won't go into a lot of detail, but I do know that authors of books are given stats as to sales, and as such, Alisa would have been able to provide you with details of sales if she had been so inclined. If she didn't....then that was her decision.

I have no idea how much this book has sold. If you break down the demographics of people interested in this saga between (1) victim-oriented and (2) Manson-oriented, I would imagine that the population interested in a victim's book would be a low sale. I would say the large majority of the interest in this murder would be young kids looking for a hero. Unfortunately, there is no hero.

That is only my conjecture on the sales of this book.

Regarding the "War of the Worlds" which might take place, I say bring it on.

I REALLY like a good fight. HA HA.

katie8753 said...

>>>Mr. P said: Poirot repies:

I wasn't aware I was thinking.>>>

HA HA HA. Touche!!!

Leary, as to Hendrickson's Death to Pigs, I have no idea how that sold. Sorry. I didn't buy it, nor will I. :)

leary7 said...

Katie, you are never more beautiful than when you are leading the charge into battle.
Kind of like a Joan of Arc thing, with a little bit of Lisa Simpson thrown in.
Kidding.

leary7 said...

Interesting that you see the demographics as being either victim oriented or perpetrator oriented, Katie. I have a hard time putting myself in either category. I guess I have always seem myself in the "cultural context" category. I spend way to much time, for instance, trying to imagine if Charlie and the gang had just headed to Woodstock if that might have somehow altered the whole 'death trip' he was on and put the others on. Probably not, but that is what I think about.

leary7 said...

really silly when you think about it. Kind of like comtemplating...if Hitler had only been accepted to art school, would WWII have happened.
I need better hobbies.

MrPoirot said...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2111152/Why-redheads-feel-pain-thats-excuse-taunt-them.html

The above link may explain Squeaky's tendency to staple her arm as a teen.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Leary.

Leary said:
"I got a bad feeling about this. You know how the Col feels about Debra. This whole thing could devolve into a blog war between the pro-Alisa faction and the pro-Debra folk.
At least now with Katie on the case we will get some hard facts. Hey, that's a good title for her blog - Katie On The Case".


This is quite simply, a case of reporting the latest TLB news, to my readers.
I would be remiss, if I didn't present this type of news.

The Colonel has voiced disdain for Debra many times.
That's his business.
He has a right to his opinion.
I have no beef with Colonel, or his opinion.

As for me...
I believe whole-heartedly, that Debra is a victim.
I believe her (sometimes) strange actions... are a direct result of the trauma, she suffered from this whole ordeal.

When Debra defended Polanski's rape and sodomy of Samantha Geimer (on national tv) a few years back, I was apalled.
I was disgusted.
I couldn’t believe it!
Debra actually said: “The sex was consensual”.
Things like that, are indefensible.

The woman definitely has some issues, and baggage.
That should be obvious to everyone.
On that fact… I agree with Colonel.

The real question becomes:
Do we attribute those obvious issues, to the murder of her sister?

And more importantly:
Do we hold those issues against her?

Personally...
I DO attribute her issues directly to the murders… and (for that reason)... I try my best, not to hold those issues against her.
That seems to me, the logical and polite way to approach those two questions.

Quick story:
I have a set of cousins, who come from a very large family.
The girls (my cousins) were all very beautiful.
They were cheerleaders.
You get the idea...

Their oldest brother (my cousin) was killed in an auto wreck.
His sisters (my cousins)... who up to that point were gorgeous (cheerleaders, as I said)... all became extremely obese.
In my mind... there was no big mystery, as to why they fell apart (both mentally and physically).
The body and mind are directly linked... and tragedy can seriously f#ck people up.

Debra was victimized, and hence, is a victim.
I just don’t see any way to dodge that bullet.

Did the murders effect Debra’s family, the same way they did her?
It doesn’t seem so, does it?
She seems to have "faired" the worst.

Leary…

The bottom line is this:

I can’t fathom, how anyone could possibly believe that Debra actually enjoys this life of parole hearings. stress, etc.
Given the choice… I’m sure she’d rather have her sister alive.
AND…
I’m sure if Sharon WAS still alive… Debra would be a totally different person… in a totally different “place” mentally, emotionally and physically.

I also believe… that Debra is totally ill-prepared for these parole hearings etc… but, only does it, because she feels it’s her duty, as the “last Tate standing”, as it were.
She's totally ill-equipped, to be attending these things.
You can see that, in her face.
She's a wreck.

Personally… I give the woman a pass... as a woman, who has been victimized, and has never completely recovered.

As you know Leary…

If you polled 100 bloggers… you’d get 100 different opinions.
I have no interest in forcing my opinion on anyone.

I’m not Pro-Alisa or Pro-Debra.
I’m a man, trying to keep an open mind.

I hope I made some sense… LOL

And No...
There will be no "war"... as much as katie would probably enjoy it! LOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Leary...

Katie is right, regarding the book sales figures.

My co-worker sold an instructional audio CD online years ago...

He was kept abreast of the sales figures regarding his CD, on a very regular basis.

Alisa could gather the sales figures information for you, with little effort.
if she's not providing that information, it's intentional.

As for public listings online... regarding book sales figures... I've never seen a resource like that before.

Although...
I've never looked.

I know, if you look-up individual record albums... even on Shitapedia (Wikipedia)... they many times give a rough account of albums sold.

I know you've voiced interest in these figures MANY times... so, I'll do some digging for you, when I have a chance.
: )

CarolMR said...

"A story ALWAYS has two sides." - katie

Actually THREE sides: One side, the other side, and the truth!

I don't know why, because she has said some really dumb things (especially re Roman and his marriage to Sharon), but I like Debra. Lynyrd is right - she is family and no one can change that. I think she knows a lot more about the case, and obviously about Sharon, than either Alisa or Brie.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Carol!

katie8753 said...

Hi Carol.

>>>Actually THREE sides: One side, the other side, and the truth!>>>

Yes you're right. There are 3 sides..and the truth is usually buried somewhere in the middle.

katie8753 said...

Lynyrd I agree with your assessment of Debra.

Had this not happened to her, she could very well have turned out totally differently.

I don't understand her defense of Roman, but on the other hand, I haven't walked in her shoes. I've said many times...the Manson family didn't just kill Sharon...they killed her whole family that night. As well as the other victims' families I'm sure.

katie8753 said...

Leary in my experience with bloggers on this case, there seems to definitely be a line drawn between victim supporters and Manson supporters. And both sides are pretty dogmatic.

And then occasionally you'll find people who don't seem to be on either side, or they just don't voice their opinions as loudly, but I don't think their number is as great.

leary7 said...

that was an extremely well written piece on victimization, Lynyrd. Good stuff. Debra's actions over the years should be taken in context for sure.
I swear I wasn't trying to start anything, just saw some potential for serious disagreement with the Alisa/Debra debate. Not that that would be a bad thing neccissarily.

For some odd reason I would consider it rude to ask an author about book sales. I'd rather contact the publishing company. I don't have a copy yet of Alisa's book or the one written by the Canadian psych nurse. Can you guys give me the name of the publishing company of either or both? Thanks.

katie8753 said...

Leary, Restless Souls is published by Harper/Collins Publishers.

starship said...

Yes, I would like to hear what Debra has to say too. And I always try to give her the benefit of the doubt because of what she went through.

Hell, I even try to give the killers the benefit of every doubt as well.

This bit about Debra being disinherited though, disn't the Col publish an actual legal document about it a few years back, proving it? The Col always says she has the Cols ashes, but there has never been objective proof that she does.

starship said...

Lt. Col PJ Tate's ashes is what I meant.

katie8753 said...

Hi Starship!

I remember reading that the Col got a copy of Paul Tate's will I believe which said she was disinherited. If he published it, I don't remember.

The ashes thing...I really don't know a thing about that.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Starship.

I've never (personally) viewed any legal document (regarding Debra's disinheritance), as such.
That's not to say, it doesn't exist.
I've never put any effort into looking for one.

Anyone?

The whole (disinheritance) concept doesn't surprise me.
At a minimum... it's obvious there was a major "falling-out" of some sort... between Debra and her family.
From what I'm told... the entire book manages to avoid Debra, almost completely.

If Colonel says she was disinherited... I'll take his word on it, until it's proven otherwise.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Starship communicated (just now), on a previous thread:

"Lynyrd... I'll be emailin you soon once I finish Restless Souls...with my deep thoughts about it of course".


As always Starship... your input, is much anticipated.
Your input is much anticipated, because of your extensive knowledge of the case... but moreover... because, I know your report will be unbiased, with no particular slant or hidden agenda.
Impartiality and evenhandedness are the real purpose (and value) of any professional critique.

I'm receiving a copy of "Restless Souls" today, myself.

Between the two of us... we'll get to the bottom of this book... (amidst all the promotion and discord).
We'll read it, and submit an unbiased thread.
I have absolutely no "agenda".
I'm beholding to no one.

To illustrate (to my readership) how unbiased my agenda is:
(As Katie can attest)... I was actually hoping to avoid reading this book altogether... as, my schedule is just so completely jam-packed.
But...
It seems reading this book, has become a mandatory task for participation in the TLB world. LOL
The subject just won't die... and I'm left with no choice, but to read this thing. LOL

I've heard so many different opinions of this book... ranging from fabulous to awful... I absolutely must read it, and formulate my own opinion.

Starship... we'll get to the bottom of it!

If nothing else... my curiousity is completely "peaked", at this point.

Cheers!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

'Course...
I'm such a slow reader... the entire subject of "Restless Souls" will probably have passed, by the time I finish.

That's probably a good thing. : )

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Update:

Evidently...
Alisa Statman is not convinced that this statement was, in fact, written by Debra Tate.

She believes it was written by an individual named "Robin Olsen".

This woman "Robin Olsen" (whoever she is), would have to have a LOT of sack (and not many brains), to release an "official statement", and sign someone else's name to it!

This looks like a potential lawsuit to me.

Dilligaf??

The plot thickens...

It seems to me, that Debra will (likely) have to come forward (in some capacity) to confirm or deny this "offical statement".
It doesn't seem likely that Debra will be able to completely ignore this situation.

Stay Tuned...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Venus has informed me, that "Inside Edition" (today and tonight), will be featuring a small segment about "Restless Souls"... and showing photos (from the book).

Check your local listings...

JDB1973 said...

Hey, all. Been a lurker here. Like the site alot, very informative.
In regards to the subject of Paul tate's ashes, this was on the Col's site about a month ago:
"There is my Aunt Debra. Although she is my mothers sister, she is a far-removed Aunt. Never close with Mama, always at battle with her, I knew Debra less than I knew Aunt Sharon. ...What little I Knew about her firsthand was that she had taken my grandfather's ashes and to date had not given him a proper burial." Brie Tate, Sharon's niece/ blood relative
Hope that clears a bit up.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi JDB.
Welcome to the blog!

mattprokes said...

i've heard the name robin olsen somewhere before.
maybe from one of nelsons books?

katie8753 said...

Hi JDB! Welcome!

That quote is in the book Restless Souls, page 365. I guess that's where the Col. got it.

I will say one thing. You don't have to bury ashes. Some people keep them on the mantle or something. I had a friend die and she had 3 children, and they divided her ashes and each keep 1/3 of her in their homes. That way they all still have a part of her.

Just saying.....

katie8753 said...

Hi Matt.

I've never heard of Robin Olsen. Do you remember what was said about her?

Does the name Pam Turner ring a bell with anyone?

katie8753 said...

If Debra was disinherited, I wonder how she even got Col Tate's ashes.

I don't think they would hand 'em out to just anybody.

mattprokes said...

pam turner rings the same bell as robin olsen.
a name i've heard but can't place.

mattprokes said...

a quick google search tells me that robin olsen was debra tates representitive, at least she was in 2005
pam turner is sharon tates cousin

Dilligaf said...

L.S.,

In today's world, the sad thing is that anyone can sue for anything these days. In reading the statement, there really is nothing that appears to be libelous or slanderous on its face. It does claim that there are areas of inaccuracy, but does not cross a line.

If you are asking about whether Debra has an actionable claim against the person posting it, you would really need to look at the potential damages suffered, if any, to determine the viablity of such an action.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Matt.

There was a Pam Turner at one of the parole hearings (I think Susan Atkins) and it said she was Sharon's niece. I was just wondering how she could be Sharon's niece, but cousin makes more sense.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Mr. Dill!

As far as I can tell, Debra has not commented that she is not the one who released that statement.

Muirmaiden said...

Debra is family, disinherited or not, I agree. I thank her for attending the parole hearings and doing her part to keep the Mansonites behind bars. But I don't know if what she says can be trusted either. I don't doubt Sharon's murder and the impact on the family was traumatic for her, and I can certainly see how the way she acts and what she says now reflects that. I can't imagine what it must have been like for the victims' families, particularly the younger members who were just children at the time. However, since the death of her father, Debra seems to have built up her involvement in the aftermath of the murders. There's no one alive in the Tate family now who witnessed any of the things she has claimed to back her up. I'm not saying that she's lying or exaggerating, there's no way of knowing that. But it's interesting that no one else, including Doris or Patti ever mentioned the things she has. I'm saddened that Debra was and is estranged from her family and I don't doubt it's painful for her. But her defense of Polanski is something that I find very disturbing. I don't think she's vindictive, but I think she does enjoy some of the media attention she gets to some degree.

But I don't think that's the main reason why Debra has suddenly come forward in recent years about things that supposedly took place all those years ago. I think it's a way to keep Sharon's memory alive, and a way to keep Sharon close to her. Whether she's telling the truth or not (and I can say the same for Brie and Patti, through Alisa), people who have suffered such a terrible loss and had loved ones killed so brutally have to find some way to internalize it, and find something positive and healing to do to help them go on with their lives. It's just hard to know what to believe, and I really hope there can be some reconciliation between Debra and her family. Whatever I may think of the book (I haven't gotten it, but I will eventually), I will say that I admire the Tate family and that of the other victims for making their voices heard, and to make sure that the killers remain behind bars and that the victims are not forgotten.

Sorry to ramble on like that. Hope I didn't bore you all too much.

Muirmaiden said...

I wonder if Debra will release a statement about how she feels about the book. Unless she gave permission for the other one to be issued.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hello Muirmaiden.

A blog can never have enough beautiful women from Canada!
LOL

"Ooo-Canada"!! hahaha
Puts me in the mind for hockey!

We've got Spiritual Tramp, Muirmaiden... and in the past, Stella.

Hmm...
Whatever happened to Stella?

But, I digress...

katie8753 said...

The book mentions that Patti had 3 children. But it seems that only 2 lived with her and Alisa. It doesn't explain what happened to the other child.

Does anyone know?

katie8753 said...

Hi Muirmaiden.

>>>There's no one alive in the Tate family now who witnessed any of the things she has claimed to back her up. I'm not saying that she's lying or exaggerating, there's no way of knowing that. But it's interesting that no one else, including Doris or Patti ever mentioned the things she has.>>>

What things are you referring to?

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Dilligaf.

I was referring to the latter (possibility)...

The possibilty that Debra could sue someone for adding her name, to a document that she didn't write...

Your answer makes sense:

"whether Debra has an actionable claim against the person posting it, you would really need to look at the potential damages suffered, if any, to determine the viablity of such an action".

Thanks Dilligaf!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

MattP said:

"a quick google search tells me that robin olsen was debra tates representitive, at least she was in 2005.
pam turner is sharon tates cousin"


Thanks Matt.

I can always count on you, for behind the scenes research on details.

You ROCK!

katie8753 said...

I think that Debra is probably a very complicated person at best.

I have no doubt that she was close to her sister Sharon.

We've all seen the films of Sharon at Jay's house, and I'm pretty sure that the girl in the swing that Sharon was laughing with on that film is Debra Tate.

The book indicates that Doris shut down after Sharon's death and didn't function anymore until the parole hearings started.

I can't imagine losing my sister, and on top of that, losing my parents too.

I think that would probably either (a) make me comotose or (b) piss me off. Probably the latter.

I don't think anything bad of Debra. She does defend Polanski (I don't get that), but she has also attended these stinking parole hearings, and I'll guarantee you that she'd much rather be sitting on her porch enjoying the breeze, hearing her dogs bark and relaxing than being in a stuffy room with maniacal killers.

As to her being a publicity hound, she sure doesn't do herself up for these public appearances. She looks like she's 2 seconds from being dead and wishing she was anywhere else.

I have to say, when all is said and done, that I admire Debra for continuing on with her mother's work, especially if her mother turned her back on her. Not saying she did intentionally, but it seems that the family gave her the "heave ho" for some reason.

My hat is off to Debra.

Muirmaiden said...

Hi Katie. If you watch some recent interviews of Debra on youtube (since Col Tate's passing) she basically says that she kept the family going after Sharon's death (took care of Patti, etc, that one can't really be verified one way or the other), that her boyfriend at the time was the one who told Doris, inadvertently, that Sharon was murdered. That she, Debra, was in the shower, when her mother came in and told her. This conflicts with what every other book has said about how Doris learned of her elder daughters' death. Debra also claims that she confronted Manson before or during the trial (I forget which) because she wanted to look into the eyes of the man who orchestrated the murder of Sharon. Again, there is nothing written works or stated in other interviews by other members of the Tate family to support this. She also slipped up in one interview, saying Sharon was nominated for an Oscar for her role in "Valley Of The Dolls", when in fact she was nominated for a Golden Globe. It may have just been a mistake on her part, but it makes you wonder.

Some have also said that she did not visit Cielo Drive as often as she now claims before the murders. Who knows.

Not to say she is lying, but it does come off as strange considering all that has been said and written about the murders and their aftermath.

katie8753 said...

My hat is off to Doris too. How she could sit thru Tex's parole hearing and listen to all his fal-der-all and "born again" what-not without voicing her opinion is beyond me. I know I'd have been thrown out for saying how I felt, but she was smarter than me. She kept her trap shut until it was time to talk. Then she gave both barrels.

I've made the comment many times, the Manson Family didn't just kill Sharon Tate on August 9, 1969...they killed her family too. It's very evident by the aftermath.

And now it's trickling down to the next generation, which is very sad.

I think that the Tate family (and all the families affected by this tragedy) will NEVER start to heal until these killers are finally dead and they don't have to worry about parole hearings, and they can finally relax.

katie8753 said...

I'll say one more thing. I'm glad that Doris' continual work and Patti taking up the cross made it possible to end the conjugal visits for convicted felons, and also put an end to Tex's "church work"

He should just clean toilets until he dies. He will never get out. Anyone who reads what he did, even if they're not familiar with the case, will never let him out.

And his last parole hearing, when he chose not to speak? Tough luck Tex. You're not getting out!

Muirmaiden said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Muirmaiden said...

I don't think badly of Debra. I admire her greatly. She must have so much inner strength to continue this battle that Doris and Patti did before her to keep those monsters incarcerated. It can't be easy to sit there and listen to those lowlifes go and on about how they have served their time (yeah right), and how they should be allowed back into society. It must be like reliving the horror, pain and grief that has never really healed.

My issue is not with Debra continuing the legacy of Sharon, Doris, Patti and Paul but rather what to believe regarding what the remaining members of the Tate family (and what Patti may or may not have left to be written about after her passing), have said and claimed. Given the estrangement between Debra and the rest of the Tate family, it's hard to know what to accept as fact. Like I said, I hope there will be a reconciliation for them.

There will probably always be some things about the case and the Tate family dynamic that will never be public knowledge.


Peace out.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Muirmaiden!

>>>Hi Katie. If you watch some recent interviews of Debra on youtube (since Col Tate's passing) she basically says that she kept the family going after Sharon's death (took care of Patti, etc, that one can't really be verified one way or the other)>>>

No that can't be verified but I have a feeling that's right. Her mother took to her bed, and her father went on a witch hunt. So it's not unbelievable that Debra took over the household, much like Susan Atkins did so many years before that.

>>>that her boyfriend at the time was the one who told Doris, inadvertently, that Sharon was murdered. That she, Debra, was in the shower, when her mother came in and told her.>>>

This account just isn't true. Her boyfriend didn't tell Doris. I don't know about the shower stuff....

>>>Debra also claims that she confronted Manson before or during the trial (I forget which) because she wanted to look into the eyes of the man who orchestrated the murder of Sharon.>>>

I don't think that happened either.

>>>She also slipped up in one interview, saying Sharon was nominated for an Oscar for her role in "Valley Of The Dolls", when in fact she was nominated for a Golden Globe. It may have just been a mistake on her part, but it makes you wonder.>>>

I do think that was a mistake, because she quickly corrected herself. I think at that time she seemed to be over medicated, to me at least and she wasn't thinking straight.

>>>Some have also said that she did not visit Cielo Drive as often as she now claims before the murders. Who knows.>>>

Well I do believe her when she says she visited Sharon at Cielo. In fact, she called Sharon August 8th and asked if she and her friends could spend the night in the loft because it was cooler up in the canyon, and Sharon said no, she wasn't feeling well.

I DO agree that some of the things that Debra has said have been erroneous, but I don't think it was spiteful. I think it was a tired mind trying to remember.

Debra is a "middle child", and as such, sometimes the responsibility falls on a middle child much heavier than on a youngest child.

I can't even begin to explain Debra Tate or any of the others. She has made some major pratfalls, but I do think her heart is in the right place. :)

Thanks for sharing Muirmaiden!

katie8753 said...

>>>It can't be easy to sit there and listen to those lowlifes go and on about how they have served their time (yeah right), and how they should be allowed back into society. It must be like reliving the horror, pain and grief that has never really healed.>>>

No Muirmaiden, it can't be easy. I can think of a million things I'd rather do than sit in some dank, stuffy room and listen to how my sister was brutally killed by these monsters, and wonder how she felt before she died.

Debra might not be a pillar of truth, but she is indeed a soldier, and for anyone to feel slighted that THEY didn't get to speak at a parole hearing is beyond me!!!

katie8753 said...

Just a thought...if Debra felt the need to take over the house because her parents were so devastated that they quit living, then maybe Patti resented being bossed around by her, which would be a very normal reaction. Maybe this is the beginning of the causative agents that promoted the family breakdown...I don't know.

BUT...I just want to say one more thing about Doris Tate.

I love watching her at Tex's parole hearing, she in her chair with her arms crossed, glaring at him and listening to his talk about all the pain this has caused HIM (it's always about him), and then giving him both barrels. Gotta love it.

Tex thought he was George of the Jungle when he swooped down and killed Sharon.

That was his last mistake......HA HA.

Muirmaiden said...

I don't think Debra is vindictive or spiteful either. She has however, stated those same claims in more than one interview. It is a well-established fact that she was supposed to spend the night at Cielo with Sharon, that much is certain.

I don't doubt she had a burden on her after Sharon's death, but we'll never know to what extent. One person's viewpoint and recollections can differ from others.

It happens in families, I should know (let's just say that my younger siblings have a different opinion than I have, I am a middle child also), but the thing is, none of us know what is factual with some of it since it can't be verified. The same can be said of what Alisa and Brie have stated in the book. But I think if there is one thing they are united on is carrying on the legacy of the Tate family, Sharon's memory, and the continued fight to keep the killers behind bars.

Thanks for your reply, Katie.

Muirmaiden said...

This a little off-topic, but has anyone heard Hollywood hairdresser Eric Root claim that Sharon was planning a birthday party for him that night at Cielo Drive in 1969? And he said, "Thank god, I didn't go". First of all, it has been disputed by many reliable sources that there was no party planned at Sharon's house that night. The only party she was planning to go to was at her friend Sheila Wells house, and she decided that she was too tired to go. Eric Root had his so-called "private diary" about his friendship with the late Lana Turner published only a month or two after her death in 1995, where he made more outlandish claims about Lana, her daughter, and many incidents in her life. Lana's daughter and Lana's former business manager have both disputed Root's claims, yet he still tries to portray himself as a close confidante to celebrities who have conveniently passed on.

I can understand some people who knew Sharon and Jay and the others shivering at feeling how close to death they may have been had they been there, along with their grief and horror of what did happen. But Root seems to just want attention, and if the person he's talking about isn't alive to defend themselves or sue him, he works it to his advantage. Watching him in interviews, I think he is delusional.

I can't believe he had the nerve to claim that Sharon was planning a party for him and how lucky he was to not have gone - considering that there is no evidence that she was having him over in the first place!

Again, sorry for going off topic. Just wanted to put this out there.

Muirmaiden said...

I agree with what Katie said about Doris not backing down at the parole hearings. Tex Watson proved himself to be the coward, who thought that he was so powerful that night, but when he came face to face with the mother of the pregnant woman he killed, he was exposed as the pathetic low-life that he is.

Regarding Debra, as I said in another post, I have no doubt that she means well, but given some of the contradictory claims she has given in interviews, I'm skeptical of some of the thing she says. But she has my support and admiration for her hard work in memory of her Sharon and the family members she has lost to all this tragedy.

Meli said...

I'm kind of sorry I bought the book now. I ordered it thinking there would be more in regards to documentation (perhaps photo copies of documents, letters, and parts of manuscripts written by family members). I haven't sat and read the book yet, but just flipping the pages I have noticed HUGE errors that are a major surprise for me, as she says she had access to all kinds of information. If she can make such huge errors on the information that the public has knowledge of (Ex: a picture of David Niven and Sharon on the set of Eye of the Devil was labeled a shot from the set of "13" i.e. Thirteen Chairs which I believe was her final film) what kind of misinformation is she providing elsewhere. Seriously, if I as a fan of Sharon can point out discrepancies by just doing a flip through the book....there is something wrong with this situation. I will probably read it to be able to give it a proper review-but I'm sickened that it's turned out to be nothing but a work of fiction. I wanted the truth about the Tate's experience because they deserve for people to know what happened. They deserve for people to remember that Sharon was a real person, not some Hollywood story. People sensationalize what happened and glorify the killers, and I was hoping for a book that would be just about sweet Sharon and her life and the hard work and dedication that her family put in to not only making sure her killers stayed behind bars-but to make sure other victims had their voices heard as well. So sad this book turned out like this. I really do hope that Debra does put out a book and shares the real story of her family.

MrPoirot said...

Zeppo Marx once said that in his biographies, when he needs a quote, he uses a dead person. There are many lies in books and Holltwood. there is a Cary Grant biography that says Cary Grant was outside in the yard of a home just below the Tate home and heard the murders going on but did not report the screams because he was with a gay lover(thus utilizing two false rumors). I myself have read many biographies that were so boring that I wished the author had made up some tales to spice things up. Meatloaf claims he gave Manson a ride once.

starship said...

Hey, isn't MsBurb from Canada too?

If I am remembering correctly, wasn't it that Debra lived in a pretty remote area of California where there was no internet but dial up and so she basically had other people running her website for her?

JDB1973 said...

Thanks for the welcomes. Didn't know that quote about the ashes was from the book, I've not received it yet. According to amazon, it will be delivered between March 5 and March 28! Can't wait to read it, though. reading various commenst on various blogs, it seems like an great read.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thanks Meli, and welcome to the blog.

I enjoyed your post.

katie8753 said...

>>>Muirmaiden said: This a little off-topic, but has anyone heard Hollywood hairdresser Eric Root claim that Sharon was planning a birthday party for him that night at Cielo Drive in 1969?>>>

No I've never heard of Eric Root, but he can join a cast of characters who claim to have been invited to a party at Cielo Drive that night. There was no party planned. You're right...she was supposed to go to Sheila's house for a get together but declined because she wasn't feeling well that night.

It's really gotta suck to feel bad then get killed. Not to say it's better to feel good and then get killed...LOL.

katie8753 said...

Hi Meli! Welcome to the blog!!

I had the same thought when I saw that picture of David Niven, and did a little looking around on the history of that movie.

It was released as "Eye of the Devil", but for some obscure reason, it is also known as "Thirteen" or "13". I have a feeling it was dubbed this after Sharon's death to somehow connect it to her final movie "Thirteen Chairs" or "12+1".

Having said all that...I agree, the caption on the photo should have said "Eye of the Devil", as that is the release name of that movie.

I agree with your entire comment. I had the same feeling when I bought this book and was really excited about it, but when I started reading it, I saw so many discrepancies and errors that it really put a major damper on my hopes that some really good information would be presented.

When you do read the book, you will see exactly what I'm talking about.

katie8753 said...

>>>Mr. P said: there is a Cary Grant biography that says Cary Grant was outside in the yard of a home just below the Tate home and heard the murders going on but did not report the screams because he was with a gay lover>>>

Boy, what'll they come up with next??? LOL.

katie8753 said...

>>>Starship said: Hey, isn't MsBurb from Canada too?>>>

I don't know where she is from, but she CRACKS ME UP!!! LOL.

>>>If I am remembering correctly, wasn't it that Debra lived in a pretty remote area of California where there was no internet but dial up and so she basically had other people running her website for her?>>>

I think I remember reading that, but I really don't know exactly where Debra lives.

katie8753 said...

Hi JDB!

I hope you like it!! :)

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Well...

I got the book last night at 5pm... and I'm on Chapter 3 - "Alone in the Crowd", (page 39). LOL

I'm getting there...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

LSB3 WILL issue an official statement on this book, if it kills me!
(...and Starship!)
AHahahaha

CarolMR said...

I think Debra does live in a remote part of CA and she runs a horse farm. At least that's the last I heard.

Miss Spiritual Tramp 1979 said...

Yeah...I have to get reading my copy of Restless Souls...I am too easily distracted and only on page 20. Mind you my copy of Death To Pigs has gathered a nice layer of dust on it...and yessss I know SHOCKER...Hendrickson actually shipped the book to me in Canada!

Also please note I bought Death To Pigs before I learned of his role in taking down BPT otherwise no chance that I would have bought it...

Venus said...

Muirmaiden and I have been pals for years and have shared a lot of chats about Sharon and the entire "situation." We've discussed "what if's" and have basically analyzed everything that can be analyzed. Having said that, I have nothing to add to what she said except to say I agree with her 100%.

I have total respect for Debra having the strength to attend those parole hearings. That can't be easy for any of the victims' family members and I feel badly for them having to do this.

My main "gripe" with Debra is what Muirmaiden said: her changing stories. She's told several stories about where she was when she heard about Sharon's murder. How can that story change? How can you forget where you were and what you were doing when you heard such life-altering news? I still remember exactly what I was doing when I heard that Elvis and Rick Nelson had died and I had no connection with them so how can she change her story about where she was and what she was doing when she heard about her sister's murder?

katie8753 said...

Hi Missy. I thought you'd be at the finish line by now on that book. LOL.

How is little Meow Mix??

katie8753 said...

Hi Venus!

I agree with you and Muirmaiden completely. I think that while Debra has said some really screwy things, which is disconcerting, she has been stalwart at attending these parole hearings, even in the face of the fact that her family apparently didn't care for her.

In fact, I think she was the only driving force to get Sharon a star on the Walk of Fame, which unfortunately for her, failed.

When I get a little time, I'll expound on my thoughts about Debra. :)

Miss Spiritual Tramp 1979 said...

Hi Katie...little meow mix is doing very well..she is gaining back all the weight she lost when she was sick and is as witchy as ever...she still tries to outfox me with the pills but its pretty hard to outfox the FOX..hahaha=^..^=

I know right..page 20 and I have had this book since the day it was released...I was really hoping that sunflare solar storm was going to wipe out the grid for a while because that is the only way I will ever get anything done...damn you internet and tumblr and youtube and zuckerbook and...

katie8753 said...

>>>Hi Katie...little meow mix is doing very well..she is gaining back all the weight she lost when she was sick and is as witchy as ever...she still tries to outfox me with the pills but its pretty hard to outfox the FOX..hahaha=^..^>>>

I'm glad to hear that. I was driving home today and saw a cat cross the street who looked JUST like her, and I thought of her. :)

katie8753 said...

I asked this question previously, but no one answered.

Patti had 3 children. The book says that only 2 of them were living with Patti and her partner at Patti's parents' residence.

Does anyone know what happened to the other child? I find it odd that nothing is really mentioned about that child. Is this a habit...don't mention someone and they don't really exist?

I don't understand how Brie could leave her sibling out like that. I thought this was about the family.

katie8753 said...

On page 47 & 48 of Restless Souls, does anyone know who this mysterious "blonde man" is who comforted Patti with tips on how to keep Sharon around her on the day of Sharon's funeral?

Venus said...

Alisa said (don't ask me where I read it) that Patti didn't remember who it was, but she thought it was a musician. Of course, that doesn't narrow it down by much, does it?

katie8753 said...

A musician??? Hmmm.....I'm wonder what musician she met at Sharon's house that could be that tender as to comfort her by telling her she shouldn't feel guilty that she didn't protect Sharon, and for her to do what he does...lie in bed and call out Sharon's name and she'd be there.

Sounds kinda Shakespearean to me.

Venus said...

I'd like to know who it was too. I doubt we'll ever know his name.

Dilligaf said...

Hi Katie,

I believe that Patti met the man at Robert Evan's house, after the funeral.

I have always been interested that Robert Evans was peripherally involved with two separate crimes, The Tate murders and The Cotton Club murders. Most people go through life not being involved, even peripherally, with one murder let alone two.

katie8753 said...

Okey-dokey then....

It says on page 375 that Brie attended Susan Atkins' 2005 parole hearing ready to confront Susan with an impact statement, and I quote "For reasons that are still unclear, I was denied that right. Debra Tate spoke instead."

Here are the attendees at Susan Atkins' 2005 parole hearing:

SUBSEQUENT PAROLE CONSIDERATION HEARING
STATE OF CALIFORNIA
BOARD OF PRISON TERMS

In the matter of the Life

Term Parole Consideration CDC Number W-08304

Hearing of:

SUSAN ATKINS

CALIFORNIA INSTITUTION FOR WOMEN

CORONA, CALIFORNIA

JUNE 1, 2005 2:24 P.M.

PANEL PRESENT:

MARGARITA PEREZ, Presiding Commissioner

DIANE LUSHBOUGH, Deputy Commissioner

OTHERS PRESENT:

SUSAN ATKINS, Inmate

JAMES WHITEHOUSE, Attorney for Inmate

PATRICK SEQUEIRA, Deputy District Attorney

KAY STAFFORD, Deputy Commissioner/Observer

DEBRA TATE, Victim's Next of Kin

ANTHONY DIMARIA, Victim's Next of Kin

MARGARET DIMARIA, Victim's Next of Kin

MARIE FORD, Victim's Next of Kin

JUNE JONES, Victims' Witness Advocate

TIP KINDEL, BPT/Observer

A. FUNCHESS, Correctional Officer


Brie's name isn't mentioned. But she said she attended.

katie8753 said...

I think Col Scott is getting his info about the ashes and the niece not being able to attend parole hearings because of Debra from either Brie or Alisa.

But that's neither here nor there.

If I was Debra Tate, here's what I would say to Brie Tate, or whatever her last name is:

I you want to go sit thru these parole hearings, have at it. I'll just sit back in my easy chair and listen to the prairie lull me to sleep.

But, be aware that you will be sitting in a hard chair for 3 or more hours, listening first to how Auntie Sharon and the others at Cielo Drive were basically ripped to pieces for NO REASON AT ALL, then listen to the drivel of Tex Watson or Pat Krenwinkel talk about how they're "nice now" and are "no harm to anyone" and how they'd like to get out and start a new church and start saving folks, or just move away and become an insurance clerk again.

And then it's your turn for the impact statement. All eyes are on you...the tape recorder is running. Silence.

I would advise you not to look at the perp, because he/she might scare you, or might look like a puppy dog that just got spanked with a newspaper for puddling on the carpet.

Either way....don't look at the perp. Keep your eyes on the Board. At least the first time.

And if that perp somehow gets out that time, don't beat yourself up because you're the ONLY one who didn't keep him/her in prison.

katie8753 said...

You know Brie Tate oughta get down on her hands and knees and thank God that her Aunt Debra is willing to sit thru these nightmarish hearings, and that she is spared from this hogwash.

She should just hope and pray that her Aunt Debra outlives these freaks of nature.

Because that is what they are. And if Brie Tate goes before them, they will swallow her whole.

Unlike Doris, who is unscarable. She'd blow smoke rings in the devil's face. God Bless Her. Likewise Debra.

But I don't think that Brie is made up of what it takes to face killers of this magnitude.

So why all the bother about this?? Let Aunt Debra chase the boogeymen and sit back and take care of your life? Be glad you have one soldier still fighting to keep this vermin in prison, because if they get out...we all lose.

katie8753 said...

Hi Mr. Dill!!

>>>I believe that Patti met the man at Robert Evan's house, after the funeral.>>>

That's what the book purports. I'd really like to know what kind of "mystery man" would console a 10 year old child. Sounds kinda creepy to me.

>>>I have always been interested that Robert Evans was peripherally involved with two separate crimes, The Tate murders and The Cotton Club murders. Most people go through life not being involved, even peripherally, with one murder let alone two.>>>

Yeah Robert Evans. I remember he married Ali MacGraw after making Love Story. I think he was married 7 times. A real winner. HA HA.

katie8753 said...

I'm gonna go back to Doris facing Tex in that parole hearing. That is one to remember.

The victims and perps are NOT allowed to speak to each other in parole hearings, but Doris had her way when she spoke to Tex. Hoo Hoo. Doris is my HERO.

She's a true Texan. HA HA.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Page 63...

Lynyrd presses on...

LOL

beauders said...

i believe marie is brie's middle. it was also sharon's name.

MrPoirot said...

Much is made about the interfamily squabbles in the Tate family after the murder. An early death in a family tends to destroy family dynamics to the point that the family becomes dysfunctional. The murder was just the beginning of trouble for the Tates. I;m not surprised Debra was disinherited or kept her familial connection to Polanski. She did the best she knew how. It was a shattered existance after such a bizarre crime. If you look back prior to the murder there were no real problems in the Tate family. Charlie really messed up everything forever.

CarolMR said...

Bob Evans (he's still a handsome devil and I think he's in his 80s now) also is one of the many people in Hollywood who claims that he was supposed to have been at Cielo the night of the murders but changed his mind at the last minute.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Page 92...

Nose to the grindstone... LOL

starship said...

Hey, Katie,

It gets worse...I believe the actual story is that a biographer claimed that Cary Grant was actually at the guest house having a gay twist with WG when the murders began and when he heard the screaming he fled the premises.

Mae Brussel liked to push that story, and she was a loon for sure.

katie8753 said...

Starship that is worse.

So not true.

Wow!!!

Can't wait to hear you book report on Restless Souls!!! :)