Friday, December 16, 2011

Photo of "Anton LaVey, Diane LaVey & Susan Atkins"
Black and White 8x10 Limited Edition Never-Before-Seen
Anton LaVey's son "Stanton", is selling this photo on his Etsy Site for $100.
Description: "This incredible black & white photo taken in The Church of Satan's early days is from a series shot for one of the many men's magazines that Anton LaVey's infamous abode (aka The Black House) was featured in.  This photo was one that didn't make it into any of those exposés and has until now never been seen by the public!  The photo shows High Priest Anton LaVey in ritual setting with High Priestess Diane LaVey on his left and Susan Atkins, nude, to his right.  This photo was taken in 1966 three years before Susan Atkins became a household name as the most violent member of the Manson Family having brutally murdered actress Sharon Tate along with her unborn child in the gruesome Helter Skelter murders of August 8th 1969.  It is a little known fact that Susan Atkins was a member and publicity model for The Church of Satan before she hopped on Charles Mansons "black bus" heading for Hollywood.  This photo is from the private collection of Diane LaVey and has never been seen until now!  Here's your chance to own a haunting piece of Americas dark history.  Professionally restored & printed by Stanton LaVey this Limited Edition B&W 8x10 can ignite flames of fascination from your family & friends!
Story submitted by Miss Spiritual Tramp!  Thanks Missy!

237 comments:

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Cease2 said...

Nice find L/S. There was a website with other Lavey/Sadie pics I saw a couple of years ago, but can't seem to find anymore...perhaps gone now. Sadie was present & clear in one or two pics, same series as this pic came from, i expect.

I think it was in 66 or 67 when LaVey was getting some press for recruiting suburbanites.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

((((((((((Cease2))))))))))

No need to change avatars, just because I "outed" you! LOLOL

Although... I love the Christmas Squaeky too!
Eh... I love any Squeaky, who am I kidding. LOL

The credit for this photo find, belongs completely to Miss Spiritual Tramp.
I really had nothing to do with it...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thanks Miss Spiritual Tramp!!!

St. Circumstance said...

I have seen some photos of Susan with Levay- but not this one...

Sadie was a freak...

she was into some very strange things in her time, and ran with some serious characters long before Chuckie came along...

In the years of incarceration she made the most noise of any of them about being an innocent kid getting caught up in trouble by the manipulative older con man....

but if that was true- by the time Charlie took his turn -it was habit for her....

She was an attractive young lady- and she used her ass to get attention from men she thought could help her...

That is not tooo uncommon

But what was tragic for her is the choices of men she made to get that attention from...

how many times was Susie going to stick her hand in the fire until it got burned???

St. Circumstance said...

By the way Katie...

I am looking into it and not sure yet..

But I think Sadie met Anton levay at MAma Cass Elliots house..

;)

TomG said...

Have you all read Child of Satan, Child of God by Susan Atkins.

She was bad from the get go. She was stealing penny candy as a pre-schooler. She failed the third grade. She failed the 12th grade but said fuck it, I quit.

Then came a series of waitress jobs and she balled whatever came in her path. She met a convict which almost led to a shootout with the police.

So she was always bad. Manson didn't make her bad. Even after Manson, she was still getting in trouble. Susie is Susie. A skank with a moustache. And a bucknive.

St. Circumstance said...

I have read that book, and her website and all of her parole hearing transcripts...

I totally agree she was as you said...

"Bad from the word go"

But she didn't portray herself that way later in her life...

She fought like a tiger to get out of the clink, and sometimes reading her words, and listening to her tell her story... she really does get to me a bit... she made a very sad, sympathetic older woman...

but when you look at the whole picture- you have to walk away thinking...

she was what she was

TomG said...

All of us have to take a step back sometimes and imagine what prison does to you.

When the lsd wore off, when the family loyalty wore off, when the 60's radicalism wore off..... those girls are sitting in a small cell thinking what the fuck did I do? And how do I get out of here?

My own take is that if I were facing long term incarceration, I would tell any motherfucker whatever they wanted to hear if it would help me get out of prison.

For this reason, I can't call them hypocrites are phonies for post conviction statements.

St. Circumstance said...

Can anyone make a good argument that any girl on that ranch wasn't a skank??

they way they lived, bathed, slept. the garbage they ate, and fed to children.. The dirty old men, and ex cons they let around there babies...

Strip and suck for bikers on command....

many people they say came and went from the ranch...

the girls who chose to stay and live like that...

Skank is a good enough word for me


but your right...

even if it was because they were forced by fact they had no choice..

they cleaned up and sobered up after 20, 30 years...

and sometimes no matter how evil they acted as kids/tennagers...

The old women made me feel a little sympathetic..

I honestly dont feel the same for Bobby/Bruce/Tex or even Clem

maybe that makes me a sexist pig...

but The men knew more, and they were older for the most part, and Bobby still acts cocky to this day... a guy is more capable of taking care of himself if he wants to go out on his own- where a younger girl is more likely to stay with the pack for safety...

Maybe I'm just making excuses for them but They all are paying the same so it doesn't matter- and I agree they should...

I just get more satisfaction watching Tex get denied than i did watching Sadie lying on that gurney with Brain Cancer...

She didn't look like a threat to anyone to me...

watching the victims family crying
her family crying...

she didn't even know where she was..

just all around sad what happened to her in life- and sad what she helped do to make others life's miserable as well....

TomG said...

The girl all the way to the left in this photo, needs a trimming down thurrrr!

My last comment of the day. promise.

katie8753 said...

Which girl is Susan?? The one way back in the background???

katie8753 said...

>>>St said: But I think Sadie met Anton levay at MAma Cass Elliots house..>>>

I hard that Charlie met the Ayatollah at Mama Cass's house too. They were discussing wallpaper, recipes and maybe someday overthrowing the Shah, in between jams. LOL.

katie8753 said...

>>>St said: Can anyone make a good argument that any girl on that ranch wasn't a skank??>>>

YEEEEEEE-HHHHHAAAAAAAAA!!!

Righteous!!!!

LOLOL!!

CarolMR said...

katie, I can't tell which one is Susan, either.

Marliese said...

Borrowing Lynyrd's line, i am seriously crying here with these comments. ROFL.

can anyone make an argument that any girl on the ranch wasn't a skank, the
Ayatollah, the one on the left needs a trimming...

One hilarious remark after another. LOL!

katie8753 said...

Are there any experts on Susan's nipples out in the audience?

If so, we might can identify Susan as the "big-nipped" girl on the far left. HA HA HA.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Carol, Katie...

To be frank with you... I'm assuming the dark-haired girl (with the gorgeous ta-tas, LOL), on the extreme left, is Susan... but, I'm not sure myself. LMAO!

When Spiritual Tramp sent me this, I thought:
That doesn't look like Susan??

Then, I thought:
Well...
Susan is one of those people who looks different in every photo anyway... so, that must be her.


Plus, I thought:
This was 1966... (before I ever saw Susan), so who knows... LOLOL

Bottom Line:
Your guess, is as good, as mine!
Ahahahaha

Spiritual Tramp??
Stanton??
WTF??
: )

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Naah...
I'd know those T#ts anywhere.
That's definitely Susan!
LOLOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

She WAS a "looker"!!!

Puss-dripping VD, and all!
Ahahahaha

TomG said...

The girl on the left isn't Susan. I think Susan is behind the girl on the right.

I love Susan, whichever one she is. I know she's bad, sometimes you have to love people, even if they are bad.

v717 said...

Here is a little excerpt from Susan Atkins "Child of Satan, child of God." I haven´t read the book myself but i found some excerpt on the web.
"It was a slow afternoon, and I considered my first thirty-minute routine as merely a warm-up for the wilder things to come with nightfall. I was just finishing when Mr. Garnet, the owner, walked in with a man I had not seen before. The room was quite dark but the afternoon sunlight splashed through the swinging door behind them. The man seemed to be dressed entirely in black. His face and the top of his bald head were extraordinarily pale - white.
Garnet and the stranger walked toward me. "Sharon," my boss said as I reached for a wrap and moved toward the side of the stage. "Sharon, I'd like you to dance one more number."
"But I've just finished, Mr. Garnet."
"I know, sweetheart," he smiled, "but I'd like for you to do one more number for Mr. LaVey here. This is Mr. Anton LaVey."
I smiled at the man. His gaze was a intense as any I'd ever seen, even though his mouth was smiling. His eyes seemed to be black - and glistening.
"It's important, Sharon." Garnet said. "You can stretch your break a bit afterward."
"Okay." I walked over to Tommy the bartender and told him to put on my favorite record. "I might as well give him the works," I mumbled to Tommy.
The intensity of the stranger's black eyes deepened as he watched my movements. A smile curled about his lips. I slipped into one of my fantasies about Sharon King the dancer, the sensuous, long-legged, full-breasted movie starlet, the Broadway queen. The music penetrated the lower depths of my abdomen and up into my chest cavity. It possessed me.
Garnet motioned me to the small table where he and Mr. LaVey were seated. "She is one of my best girls, Mr. LaVey. Do you think there's a part for her in your production?"
"Hello, Sharon." LaVey's voice sounded as though it were in an echo chamber. "That was very good."
He turned to Garnet. "Yes. Yes. She would be very good for the vampire role."
"Vampire role?" I asked, silently."

katie8753 said...

V717, who is Sharon?

MrPoirot said...

Sadie said in her book that she dumped one beau because he was "normal". Yet she also said she left Anton Levay after being invited to his house where he had a lion.
Susan couldn't find an equalibrium.

The biggest mistake she ever made was watching that movie about copycat murders. She took that cornball idea and brought down the house of Manson. But then, the Family was always copying what they saw on tv or heard on records. Susan was a main instigator in the crime of the century. I doubt she ever knew who she really was. Maybe there really are witches?

TomG said...

v717....the book does have a kind of softcore porn tone to it, which is somewhat surprising for a Christian self-discovery expose'... or maybe not.

v717 said...

Katie: Susan Atkins worked sometimes under the pseudonym of Sharon Stone. Isn´t it strange?

katie8753 said...

If that's Susan in the background, she sure didn't get star billing.

"Okay, in this scene, everyone else gets a closeup, and you will be the girl in the background lying on your side looking bored and wishing you could stand by "the leader".

LOLOL!

katie8753 said...

>>>V717 said: Katie: Susan Atkins worked sometimes under the pseudonym of Sharon Stone. Isn´t it strange?>>

That is very strange. Spooky strange.

Marliese said...

Katie, Susan called herself Sharon King when she was a topless dancer in San Francisco, and so LaVey also called her Sharon.
She said something about in case the cops showed up, she didn't want her real name known...

Kind of ironic, huh...

v717 said...

Here are some more excerpts:
Garnet turned to me. "You see, Sharon. Mr. LaVey has agreed to stage one of his productions here at the club - a witches' sabbath - topless and all - and I think it could be fun for you if you're interested."
"What's a witches' sabbath?" I asked, looking first at Mr. Garnet and then back at the bald-headed man.
LaVey threw his head back and gave a barking sort of laugh. "It's a time, my dear, when the witches worship their leader - Satan. It's a marvelous ceremony and will be very colorful for your club. It's a bit out of the ordinary."
I shrugged. "It sounds it." I thought it was weird, but it might be the trick to launch my career. "Sure, if Mr. Garnet wants me in it, he's the boss."
"Good. Good." LaVey rubbed his palms together.
"But what about costumes and all that, Mr. Garnet?" I asked, trying to understand the thing better.
"Don't you worry about those details," LaVey interrupted. "You won't need much to wear. Besides, we will be having a meeting at my house to discuss these matters. It will all work out."
He turned to Garnet. "I think she will be excellent. And she will also be good for the witch in the torture scene."
"Torture scene?" Again I only spoke to myself.
"It's been nice meeting you, Sharon," LaVey said to me, turning to walk away. "I know you will find this most interesting."

I was near exhaustion the next night. The men in the crowd demanded more of me than I was able to perform. They seemed to want explicit sex acts, not merely free dancing by nearly naked young women. They equated dancers with hookers. I welcomed Garnet's high sign to cut my last number short and come to his table.
"Sharon," he said, "I know tomorrow is your day off, but I would like to have you join the other selected girls and me in going to Mr. LaVey's house. He wants to fill us in on the witches' sabbath and black magic. We've got to start preparing."
"Why his house?" I was still uneasy about LaVey.
"It's all part of a Satan worship routine. You know anything about that?"
My silence spoke for itself.
"Everyone has his own hussle going," Garnet said. "LaVey's is this Satan thing. He calls himself the high priest of Satan. He's a full-fledged honcho in that stuff. His wife is a full-fledged witch. They have a Satan church in their home. It's a big thing around here."
"You're kidding. You mean they really worship Satan? It's not just for show?"
"Hell no. They really mean business. Of course," he grinned, "they put on a really good show too. It's good show business. And that's what I need right now - something to get us out in front of the other clubs. We can be the hottest thing on the strip."
He paused, looking first at the drink in his hand and then into my face. His mouth was set. "So I need you to come with us tomorrow. We'll leave from here at three o'clock."
"All right, Mr. Garnet. But only because I need the job. I don't go for this Satan stuff."
He laughed. "Neither do I, but business is business."

TomG said...

She says alot of outrageous things in her book. And quite frankly, I am puzzled why it isn't discussed more often on these blogs.

katie8753 said...

Marliese, that IS creepy.

One of the best books I've read on Sharon Tate was by Greg King.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Tom said:
>>>>"The girl on the left isn't Susan. I think Susan is behind the girl on the right".<<<<

Behind the girl, on the right???
Are you kidding me? LMAO

Jeezus...

Susan is that dark shadow in the background??? LOL

C'mon... they could never charge $100, for that shadow in the back.
LOLOL

...or, could they?
: )

What a f#ckin' rip-off!

I'll give you $100 for the tits, and nothing else. LOLOL

St. Circumstance said...

Sadie is the 4'th female( smallest in background) face in the pic...

St. Circumstance said...

that is why this isn't a common pic- she wasn't one of the principals- and only someone who knew she was in could point her out...

its worth is more in its rarity...

Its very blurry... if that is her- its the first time I have ever seen this pic....

I think it probably is her

TomG said...

She has star quality even if she is way back in the picture. Not everybody can say that.

St. Circumstance said...

but there are a few other pics out there which feature Sadie with Anton more prominently- and those are the ones that the books usually include...

katie8753 said...

Was Anton Lavey involved in the movie Rosemary's Baby? Or is that a rumor?

v717 said...

We turned the corner and there was no mistaking LaVey's house. It sat in he middle of the block, with empty lots on each side. The house was wholly black. Not one bit of white or other color showed. Even the curtains were black.
"Wow!" one fo the girls wheezed softly.
"This is weird," I said.
"Look at the lawn," Garnet said. "It's all weeds and dirt."
He was right. Nothing of any beauty seemed to be growing around the two-story black monster.
"What a place for Halloween!" one of the girls said. We all laughed, a bit too loudly.
When I stepped out of the car, I was actually shaking.
"Mr. Garnet," I asked weakly, "are we really going into that house?"
"Aw, come on, Sharon. If you don't believe in black magic, nothing can hurt you. Don't be afraid."
I wasn't convinced. I don't believe the other girls were either.
Garnet reached for the doorbell. I expected a gong, or a howl, or something. It was an ordinary "ding dong."
The door opened, and there stood LaVey, all in black, his powdery white skin glowing. I felt sick at my stomach as I walked past him. His smile was sickly, I thought. Then I froze in my steps. Straight ahead at the far end of the entrance hall was a human skeleton in a glass case. It seemed to have the same sickly smile as LaVey.
"This is all the horror movies rolled into one." I thought.
"What am I doing here? I wonder if I'll get out of here in one piece."
"Please come right into the living room," LaVey said, with refined politeness. His manners were exaggeratedly excellent.
My stomach sickness immediately deepened. The first object to attract my eyes in the living room was a huge, black grand piano. That was okay. But right beside it stood stuffed, full-grown wolf, and atop the piano itself was a stuffed raven. The fireplace mantle held a large stuffed owl.
LaVey and Garnet launched immediately into discussion of the witches' sabbath. But I had trouble maintaining concentration. The decor of the house was beyond my imagination. I examined the stuffed animals and found myself shivering. Their eyes seemed alive.
"The May pole ritual is a fertility dance." LaVey's voice penetrated my consciousness for a moment.
I smiled and felt a giggle inside. "I played that all the time when I was a kid," I thought, "how come I'm not pregnant?"
The giggle choked inside me as I caught a glimpse out of the corner of my eye of someone descending the staircase in the hallway. It was a woman with the longest hair I'd ever seen. It was as black as it could possibly be and hung at least three feet below her shoulders, full and thick. At first I thought it must be a wig, but it was real.
"Ah, my wife," said LaVey, rising.
"Hello, everybody," the woman said, softly and seductively. Her manners were as impeccable as her husband's. She stood for a minute, smiling warmly at everyone, and then said, "Would you girls like to come into the kitchen with me? I'm going to prepare some coffee."
"Yes, ladies, why don't you go with Mrs. LaVey while we finish up these details? But we'll be finished soon, and I do want you to stay for our evening services. Things will come a lot clearer to you when you see it first hand."
We all looked quickly at one another.
I spoke first, and my voice was not particularly steady.
"I'm afraid I won't be able to stay, Mr. LaVey. I hope you won't be offended, but I don't believe in the devil, and..."
LaVey interrupted me with a wave of the hand and a wide smile across his white face. "But, Sharon, we don't believe in God either, but that doesn't mean he isn't real."

v717 said...

I only shook my head and followed the others into the kitchen. His remark left me speechless, but my first sight upon walking into the large, quite ordinary kitchen changed that. Through a full-glass back wall I could see a real lion in the yard. He was huge, and rather mangy-looking, but he gave a loud roar as he saw us enter the room.
"That's too much," I said, only barely audibly. "What kind of place is this?" I added under my breath.
I backed out of the kitchen and retreated to the living room.
"Mr. LaVey," I interrupted, "I'd like for you to excuse me, please. I'm not feeling too well." I turned to Garnet.
"Mr. Garnet, I think I'd better leave now. I'll be your vampire and witch, but I must be going now."
"Sharon," LaVey's voice was gentle, but his smile was still strange. "You've only just arrived. Won't you please stay? I'm holding services this evening - there will be special secret rites - and I'm sure you would enjoy it. It isn't often that I invite an outside guest to these rites."
I looked right into his eyes momentarily, but I couldn't withstand his gaze. "No thank you, Mr. LaVey. I hope you won't be offended, but I was raised to worship God, not the devil. I must leave now."
Garnet apparently recognized the urgency and decided against getting tough with me. "Okay, Sharon, you take the car and we'll get a cab later on."
He walked me to the door and out to the car. "Will you be all right?"
"Yes." I stopped beside the car. "I'm sorry, Mr. Garnet, but my imagination must have been working overtime. I had visions of somehow being sacrificed and all that. Besides, I'm tired and need to go to bed early tonight." Looking back at the scarey, black house, I wasn't sure I'd be able to go through with LaVey's plans, but then again, what other course did I have?

St. Circumstance said...

Anton Levay- was NOT the Devil in Rosemary's baby...

that was just a rumor

v717 said...

I looked at my two-inch-long false fingernails, painted brilliant red. And my face was something special, as I looked up into the mirror. It was eerie - milky-white, broken by bright red lips that matched the color of the fingernails by seemingly sunken blue-black eyes expertly twisted upward at the outside corners - grotesquely exaggerated cat eyes. Jet black hair framed it all. I was the perfect, sexy vampire, ready for my casket lying at the center of the stage.
Using care because of my fingernails, I reached into my big, black handbag and fished out a pill. Rehearsals had gone well - we were ready for the weirdest show on the strip, but I knew I'd never be able to get into that casket for real without beng stoned. I popped the acid tab into my mouth, carefully avoiding any lipstick smears.
As the end of the production neared, I lay inside the casket. I remembered very little of the show. I had shaken several people with the reality of my performance when I had risen from the casket and pointed a long, blood-red fingernail at the audience and marked them as my next victims. Gasps, from both males and females, had sounded all around the club. But as I lay there, I fancied the idea of being dead and still hearing all the sounds around me. I heard everything - the footsteps, the breathing, the sighs in the audience. "But I'm dead," I thought. "It's so pleasant... I'm outside of my dead body... I'm a spirit... I can see and hear everything... I'm dead... But I'm really alive..."

TomG said...

Little v, read her book beginning to end. She has alot to say besides this.

v717 said...

I lay in the casket so long that I missed the curtain call by five minutes. I just didn't want to get out of it.
The audience went wild over the performance. Garnet had himself a hit. I was convinced he had a whole lot more than he realized.
But the night's success spelled trouble later. Gary, my current lover of about three weeks standing, layed quietly in bed as I entered the room. I was still stretched tight from my acid trip and sat down next to him.
"You're awfully quiet, Gary. Is there something the matter?"
"I don't like what's happening to you, Sharon," he blurted out. "This whole thing you're into at the club is crazy. It's changed you. All through the rehearsals I've watched you change."
"I don't understand," I said softly, not wanting to get into a hassle. "I haven't changed."
"Yes, you have," he said sharply. "It's hard to describe. But something's happened to you. When you play your autoharp, for instance, it's creepy. There's a strange sound to it, and when you sing with it, it's like something far out, from somewhere else."
I persisted with my soft approach. "Aw, come on, Gary, you're imagining things. This is just a job. There's nothing to that black magic stuff if you don't believe in it. Relax, babe."
"Please, Sharon, baby, get out of this show. You don't need the money. We can live dealing dope. You don't need this stuff."
Gary was getting to me. And the room started to close in.
"I'm going out for a while, Gary. I'm really wired from the acid I dropped tonight. You go to sleep. I'll be back."
I picked up my harp and walked out into the street, throwing a gray cape over my shoulder. The night was foggy. I walked along quietly for several minutes and then began to strum the harp softly. I tripped out again - and was a little fairy playing my music. I sat down under a window and played softly for the whole neighborhood. Strangely, no one bothered me.
It was dawn when I walked back into the apartment and found a note from Gary. I saw immediately that his things were gone. "Sharon," the note read, "I love you too much to sit and watch you lose yourself to LaVey. Goodbye."
I sat quietly and sadly, strumming my harp and humming.
The show was a smash hit along the strip. Garnet had scored big. But the witches' sabbath, and my total sellout to LSD, marijuana, and hashish, and to sex with virtually any attractive man, landed me in the hospital in four months. I was half dead from gonorrhea and had a complete physical breakdown.

TomG said...

You gonna put the whole book on here? We get it. She mixed with some wrong people.

v717 said...

That was all I got.

TomG said...

Your heart is in the right place little v........I think...

Dilligaf said...

Ummm, perky.....

Marliese said...

katie8753 said...>>>>>
Are there any experts on Susan's nipples out in the audience?

If so, we might can identify Susan as the "big-nipped" girl on the far left. HA HA HA.<<<<<


In the famous topless photo of Susan standing with the black drape, her nipples aren't that big. You know the photo i mean, right? She's standing topless with a not very low cut bikini bottom, her arms stretched with a black drape. Ugly vampire make up.

katie8753 said...

Susan played the Autoharp?

HA HA HA HA!

TomG said...

Strumming on the ol, strumming on the ol, strumming on the ol banjo!

katie8753 said...

Yes Marliese, I know the photo you mean. I'm pretty sure Susan is the one in the background lying down in this particular photo.

>>>St. said: Anton Levay- was NOT the Devil in Rosemary's baby...

that was just a rumor>>>


Thanks St! I've read here and there that Anton was (1) in the movie Rosemary's Baby and (2) was a consultant. But I didn't know if any of that was truth.

You know how these rumors abound in TLB land. LOL.

St. Circumstance said...

Oh yes I do....

katie8753 said...

>>>Tom said: Strumming on the ol, strumming on the ol, strumming on the ol banjo!>>

HA HA. Every time I think of the Autoharp, I can't help but remember when Granny Clampett was "strummin' and'a singin". LOL.

mattprokes said...

by the cement pond

TomG said...

My favorite sitcom of the 60's was the Beverly Hillbillies. Sharon Tate had a role as Janet Krego, at the Commerce Bank. Jethro use to hit on her, much to the chagrin on Miss Jane. (Nancy Culp).

St. Circumstance said...

I personally loved Andy Griffith...

but that is probably because I look exactly like OPY

katie8753 said...

Hi Matt!!! Yes by the cement pond!! LOL.

Tom I LOVED the Beverly Hillbillies! And yes Sharon played Janet Trego, a brunette worker at the Commerce Bank that Jethro hit on constantly, much to Granny's chagrin. HA HA.

St. Circumstance said...

Sheriff without a gun...

Can you imagine a time and place???

Thank god Charlie didnt get out of jail and go to Mayberry

TomG said...

Andy Griffith was a great sitcom, especially with Barney Fife. Imagine entertainment without profanity and adult situations!

St. Circumstance said...

But there is no question whatsoever the best television show in the history of the bube tube was the one which starred the face of our gracious host...

" Stifle yourself there Edith will you herrrrr ?"

Archie Bunker

katie8753 said...

St. I LOVED Andy Griffith too! Loved that Barney, with one bullet. Otis the "town drunk", Aunt Bea, Clara, the Darlings and Ernest T. Bass. HA HA.

I also loved Green Acres.

"What tha"? "Of all tha"?

HA HA.

katie8753 said...

>>>St. said: Thank god Charlie didnt get out of jail and go to Mayberry>>>

Well I wish he would have, because there's no way that Andy would have let him get away with anything. He'd have been caught a lot sooner. LOL.

St. Circumstance said...

Have you ever heard the sweet sound of Gomer Pyles voice??

bring a tear to your eye

St. Circumstance said...

Happy days and All in the Family- most spin offs ever...

Name them???

katie8753 said...

Yes St., All in the Family was the BEST sitcom on TV.

It came out in 1971 when I was a senior in High School. It was the most unheard of humor we'd ever seen, but the country LOVED it!!

Archie Bunker was saying all the things we wanted to say at the time. LOL.

Long live Archie Bunker!!!

TomG said...

My favorite sitcoms of all time are 1) Beverly Hillbillies 2) MASH 3) Seinfeld 4) The Andy Griffith Show 5) Happy Days

katie8753 said...

>>>St. said: Happy days and All in the Family- most spin offs ever...

Name them???>>>

Okay, let me try:

Maude
The Jeffersons
LaVerne & Shirley

What am I missing?

St. Circumstance said...

Happy Days..

Laverne and Shirley
Mork and Mindy
Joanie and Chachie

All in the Family

Jeffersons
Maude
Archis place

There are more...

St. Circumstance said...

I think toms list is killer...

I like I Love Lucy, and Roseanne alot as well...

katie8753 said...

>>>Tom said: My favorite sitcoms of all time are 1) Beverly Hillbillies 2) MASH 3) Seinfeld 4) The Andy Griffith Show 5) Happy Days>>>

Loved all of them!!!

But let's add:

Cheers & Night Court.

TomG said...

I remember that we use to play street hockey until it was too dark and too cold and we were too tired to play anymore.

Then we'd go home and watch Happy Days and do homework and talk about it all the next day at school.

We had so much fun. The joys of youth.

katie8753 said...

>>>Happy Days..

Laverne and Shirley
Mork and Mindy
Joanie and Chachie

All in the Family

Jeffersons
Maude
Archis place

There are more...>>

Thanks St. Joanie & Chacie, yes. I forgot about Archie's Place. I think I wanted to . HA HA.

Mork and Mindy was a spin-off from these???? How?

St. Circumstance said...

Cheers was a really good show...

Mash... also really good

Tom- growing up in Princeton we used to have sleep overs and play floor hockey with Tennis balls in the basement...

Sat nights were Love Boat- Fantasy Island and floor hockey and when you scored in the basement on the goalie..

you Tatooed him...

lol the joys of youth indeed

St. Circumstance said...

Laverne and Shirley first met Mork on an episode of Happy Days...

he then appeared on there show a few times before they brought in Pam Dawbner and gave them there own show..

TomG said...

I Love Lucy was the song they use to play every afternoon before I left for the Kindergarden. To this day, every time I hear that theme music, I identify it with having to say goodbye to my Mom.

I'm being whimsical now and maybe I should say goodnight.

katie8753 said...

Tom, I remember back in the 70's Laverne & Shirley & Happy Days were prime time, I believe on Tuesdays on CBS. I was a "grown up" HA HA. After working all day I'd fix dinner, clean up and sit down for the comedy.

Mash was on too. Loved that show!!!

St. Circumstance said...

100 points Katie...

Happy days and Laverne and Shirley were Tuesday nights...

St. Circumstance said...

in was channel 7 though which in Jersey was ABC

katie8753 said...

>>>St. said: Laverne and Shirley first met Mork on an episode of Happy Days...>>>

I didn't know that!!

St. Circumstance said...

its true...

honeymooners...

Ralph Cramden before he was Buford T Justice..

Very funny show....

katie8753 said...

St.!!!

Lavoine & Shoiley, Happy Days, All in the Family, and M*A*S*H were all on CBS.

Seinfeld, Night Court & Cheers were on NBC.

Why do I know? Because I'm on steroids. HA HA.

Just kidding. I have a photographic memory.

Why? I don't know. LOL.

TomG said...

Sheila McCrae! Jane Keane! Art Carney! Goodnight Everybody!

St. Circumstance said...

maybe it is regional- or maybe my memory is getting worse with each hit of this dube I take lol...

and for all my fans out there-

Yes I am pounding Coors Lights as well

katie8753 said...

Did you like The Honeymooners?

I thought Ralph Kramden was just a loud mouthed idiot.

"ONE OF THESE DAYS ALICE.....ONE OF THESE DAYS!!"

HA HA HA!!

TomG said...

I went down to Miami Beach in 2008 or 2009 and ran a fucking half marathon or whatever it was I was there for......and they had this Jackie Gleeson Arena which I walked around and thought, this is where they made the shows I watched when I was a kid.

katie8753 said...

Night Tom!

St. Circumstance said...

Tom- I saw Social Distortion in that auditorium about 3 weeks ago or so...

its called The Fillmore now

St. Circumstance said...

Here is a list I found of the top 10 60's sitcoms...

10. Mister Ed
9. Gilligans Island
8. The Lucy Show
7. Car 54 Where are you
6. F- troop
5. The Munsters
4. My Three Sons
3. Bewitched
2. Dick Van Dyke
1. Andy Griffith

St. Circumstance said...

Number 7 I never even heard of...

But it says Nipsy Russel was in it...

I sort of remember him

TomG said...

I liked Dick Van Dyke when he tripped over the footstool.

And his wife, played by Mary Tyler Moore reminds me a little bit of Leslie Van Houten.

I'm not done yet, Ms Katie.

katie8753 said...

Hey did you guys like Jack Benny?

Crossing his arms, "Rochester...Rochester..."

Or Red Skelton?

"Good night and Gawd Bless".

St. Circumstance said...

well that would make LULU connected to two of these shows- because i know Katie thinks Mr. Ed is about her as well...

lol :)

St. Circumstance said...

Not to speak for you Katie- but I have heard you call her a horse face before

:)

katie8753 said...

St., you never heard of Car 54 Where are You?

It starred Fred Gwynne, who later starred in the Munsters, which is #5.

YEAH..

St. Circumstance said...

do not remember that show...

TomG said...

Red Skelton was a funny m-f'er. Remember the drunk who use to sing?

St. Circumstance said...

We are heading out tonight...

you guys all be good and see you soon!!

TomG said...

I remember Car 54 where are you.

katie8753 said...

St. I call Leslie Van Skankston horse TEETH. HA HA.

I heard a joke on the movie The Nutty Professor with Eddy Murphy, and when the comic Buddy Love was on stage battling the comic that had belittled the Professor, this is one of his jokes:

"Looking at your teeth, it's plain to see that your mama had an affair with Mr. Ed".

HA HA HA HA HA.

katie8753 said...

>>>Tom said: Red Skelton was a funny m-f'er. Remember the drunk who use to sing?>>>

Yes indeedy.

I remember all of Red's characters. The drunk, Gertrude & Heathcliffe & Clem Kadiddlehopper.

Loved that guy!!!!

Night St.

TomG said...

Do you remember that Brenda McCann blamed the girls propensity for violence on the show Combat?

Yes, Combat was a violent show....but gee whiz Nancy.

adam said...

I found Sadie's book "Child of Satan" to be a rather strange read. When she describes the murders, her tone seems far too emotionaly detached. True, no one wants to read 200 pages of hand ringing guilt, but still...

adam said...

And those are not Sadie's titties. Having studied hers for many an hour I can state this with confidence.

TomG said...

They aren't Susie's titties. We are all pretty much in agreement on that. They're somebodies titties, but not Susan's.

katie8753 said...

Hi Adam.

I didn't read Sadie's book. I didn't want to spend the money on it. V717 posted parts of it and it looks self serving to me.

Sadie is a liar. Always was...always will be.

>>>Tom said: Do you remember that Brenda McCann blamed the girls propensity for violence on the show Combat?

Yes, Combat was a violent show....but gee whiz Nancy.>>>

Yes I remember that Tom. Brenda is more scary than most of the girls.

I've always thought that. Case in point. She can kill Lauren Willet and bury her in the basement, and still live in that house.

Brrrrrrrrrr. More cold-blooded than a hooded Cobra.

katie8753 said...

And then she takes up with that baby like it was hers.

Reminds me of a horror movie I saw years ago. It was a movie that nightmares were made of.

I'll share at a later time. It will make the skin crawl off.

Suffice it to say, that Brenda is a very scary individual. She needs to be steered clear of.

TomG said...

Susan Atkins book was her 80's attempt to tell conservative Americans what they wanted to hear.

They thanked her and kept her in jail anyway. Even when she was wheeled in on a gurney with the husband dude with the ponytail so she could spit out a word of the 23rd Psalm

Thats our Susie. Always intereting.

MrPoirot said...

Charlie would have been perfect to play Ernest T Bass. Charlie is like ErnestT on acid. As long as Ernest T stayed up in the hills he was tolerated but when he came to town all hell broke loose.

TomG said...

Agreed.

Charlie Manson was a minor comedic character who by the fickle finger of fate became the face of evil.

Go figure.

katie8753 said...

>>>Tom said: Charlie would have been perfect to play Ernest T Bass. Charlie is like ErnestT on acid. As long as Ernest T stayed up in the hills he was tolerated but when he came to town all hell broke loose.>>

I agree. Ernest T. was as crazy as a loon. In fact, he could have been a forerunner of the character Charlie Manson likes to play.

Charles Manson = Ernest T. Bass.

HA HA HA.

Night all!!! Smoooch!!!

katie8753 said...

Sorry, check that.

>>>Mr. P said: Charlie would have been perfect to play Ernest T Bass. Charlie is like ErnestT on acid. As long as Ernest T stayed up in the hills he was tolerated but when he came to town all hell broke loose.>>

Mr. P., sorry. Great thought. You're exactly right!!! :)

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

You guys/gals are right.

Susan is the "fourth girl", way in the back... (face only), under the chandelier.

And yes...
Susan's boobs were bigger... less perky... with smaller nipples (ie., areola, LOL).
She also had one, slightly larger than the other.

A pair of reading glasses, works wonders!
: )

katie8753 said...

>>>Lynyrd said: And yes...
Susan's boobs were bigger... less perky... with smaller nipples (ie., aereola, LOL).
She also had one, slightly larger than the other.>>

Okay, that's TMI!!!! HA HA

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Next Challenge:

We've gotta identify all the girls (from behind), in their famous "crawl" to the courthouse... by viewing only by the shapes of their asses!
AHahahaha

Gypsy had the "breeders hips". LOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Damn V717...

You gonna paste the whole freakin' book??? LOL

Eh, whatever...

TomG said...

To make a long story short, Susan Atkins had nice breasts and nice everything for that matter.

She was a little bit troubled. I would have loved to talk her over to the bright side of life. Without her putting a knife in my neck. If you take your chances, you take your chances.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Saint Circumstance said:

>>>>"its worth is more in its rarity...

Its very blurry... if that is her- its the first time I have ever seen this pic....

I think it probably is her
<<<<

-------------------------------------------

It's all making sense, to me now.

Stanton's website, indicates in the description (small print), below the picture:

"Actual Photo is clear & crisp - Display Photo is formated for protection".

Evidently, they blurred the photo (pre-sale) a bit, for protection.

katie8753 said...

Tom, Susan wasn't just "a little troubled" she had a shitty fucking life going on.

Her mother died of cancer when she was young, her father was a drunk that couldn't support the family so they moved a lot. He finally bailed out and she was on her own, supporting her brothers.

She finally said "fuck it" and left to go to San Francisco or points north and joined up with creepy, horny old guys. Including Charlie.

She was crazier than a bed-bug.

Not excusing her behavior by any means, I'm just sayin'.

Okay guys....night.

Snooorrreee.. HA HA.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

TomG said:
>>>>"To make a long story short, Susan Atkins had nice breasts and nice everything for that matter".<<<<

I've always found Susan hands-down the sexiest girl in the group.
'Course, anyone who reads the blog already knows that. LOL

Lynn was my favorite all-around... looks and personality combined.
Lynn was almost as hot as Susan, with 20 times, the personality and demeanor.

That's just my preferences...

TomG said...

Good night

mattprokes said...

coming into this late but the best sitcom of all time for me comes from across the sea
fawlty towers
the brits have the right idea-go out on top
even the best american sitcoms(all in the family and mash for example)stayed around long past their expiration dates. in england their seasons last between 6 and 10 shows with at least two years in between seasons so the writings as good as possible and they seldom do more than 3 or 4 seasons.
and besides all that john cleese is a comedy genius.

v717 said...

Here is part 4 of "Charles Manson Superstar." Strange connections between Susan Atikins and Sharon Tate. It starts ca 07,30 into the clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6EWiPJPchk&feature=related

v717 said...

Sharon Tate, Charles Manson, the Beatles and Hollywood Satanic spell. Seven parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdHgO5jjefs&feature=related

adam said...

There is a great clip on youtube from I think it's the Ben Stiller Show (did he once have one??) called Manson. It's a piss take on the old Lassie episodes with a wild extra hairy Manson as the family pet. Instead of the dog barking and the cast saying "What's that, little Suzie is trapped down the well" it has Charlie spouting his Helter Skelter end of the world rap to get their attention. I'll try to track the link down, it's awesome.

katie8753 said...

Adam, here is the Manson/Lassie clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5IrRe2F7qY

The Ben Stiller show was short lived. It starred Ben Stiller, Andy Dick, Janeane Garofalo and Bob Odenkirk.

Bob Odenkirk plays Manson in this clip. He was a great comedian. He also had bit parts in Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm.

adam said...

Thanks Katie.
"You want me to go away but I can't go away 'cos I'm not even here man. I'm the ghost of a phantom of a shadow in the hearts of your children!"
That's our Charlie.

katie8753 said...

>>>"You want me to go away but I can't go away 'cos I'm not even here man. I'm the ghost of a phantom of a shadow in the hearts of your children!"
That's our Charlie.>>

"I'm so insane, I'm SANE!!"

HA HA HA!!

Venus said...

I need to clarify something. Mork didn't appear with Laverne and Shirley. He was on "Happy Days" with Richie and Fonzie. There's a hiklarious scene where Fonzie mentions that they'll rumble and Mork launches into this "West Side Story" theme and dance. You can see Henry Winkler struggling to not laugh. One of my all-time fave TV moments.

Venus said...

Oh, I know the girls were involved in the episode too, I meant that it took place on the "Happy Days: show.

Venus said...

I just re-read the orginal post and it says that Susan is to his right. If so, that's make her the one lying down as that's the one on his right. the others don't look like her at all IMO.

I looked for the Mork clip on youtube, it's on there, but I couldn't get the link to work. Laverne is in the episode, not Shirley.

katie8753 said...

Hi Venus. I'm pretty sure you're right, it's the girl in the background lying down. :)

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Adam...

I've seen that "Manson" clip several times, and it's always hilarious.

"I got the eye of the tiger, and I don't know who to kill first" LOL

"You can lock me up, but you can't block me up... I'm so insane, I'm sane". LOL

I like when he starts doing the karate moves. hahaha

St. Circumstance said...

Venus-you may have there its been a long time and I did not go back and check..

but my memory is that ...

As I said they debuted on Happy Days- but it was an episode involving Laverne and Shirley...

Then he went on Laverne/Shirley a couple of times as Mork before they gave him and Pam Dawbner there own show...

Am I wrong???

St. Circumstance said...

Never mind Venus I just read your second post...

We are on the same page...

St. Circumstance said...

dont think we have met by the way...

Hello Venus and Happy holidays :)

St. Circumstance said...

Speaking of which...

Happy Holidays to all lol

:)

hope you are all having a hell of a Holiday Season!!

Venus said...

Katie!!!!!!

katie8753 said...

"Tell us boy...did Timmy have an accident?"

"ACCIDENT?! There are no accidents!! There's only the PLAN!"

HA HA HA.

katie8753 said...

Oh, where are my manners?

St. Circumstance, may I present Venus. Venus, this is St. Circumstance. LOLOL!

St. Circumstance said...

my absolut pleasure

( Absolut and red bull)

:)

Venus said...

Hi St!! Nice meeting ya!!

I definitely remember watching the Mork appearance the first time around because it basically catapulted Robin Williams into fame. Everyone was talking about his appearance on the show. I always loved "Happy Days" and "Laverne and Shirley." Good times, good memories!

Venus said...

Yes, Katie, where were your memories? Aren't you supposed to be the hostess with the mostest? LOL

St. Circumstance said...

Your right Venus..

He then made the movie Popeye

which coincidentally was produced by Robert Eavens who would later be caught up in the "Cotton Club" murder of Roy Radin...

who Maury Terry alleged was part of the same Process Church of final judgement splinter group as Charles Manson and William Metzer who he called " Manson 2" -one of two actual people who killed Radin...

sigh its like the Kevin Bacon thing...

you can tie almost anyone in Hollywood together it seems lol

all we know for sure

is that they all met at Mama Cass Elliots house

:)

Venus said...

We should call it "The Cass Effect," huh?
BTW, I meant to ask Katie where her manners were, not her memories. I'm battling a severe sinus infection and my head is so clogged up that it's ridiculous. so, I'm going to go to bed and hopeully wake up in a less foggy way.

Catch y'all later!

katie8753 said...

>>>Venus said: We should call it "The Cass Effect," huh>>>

HA HA HA.

Venus, hope you get to feeling better! :)

katie8753 said...

The only thing I know about Robin Williams is that he married the baby-sitter after having an affair with her.

I'll bet Robin met the baby-sitter at Mama Cass's house too! LOLOL.

CarolMR said...

Thanks, Venus, for pointing out which girl is Susan. Maybe there are several rumors about Sharon Tate being a witch and meeting Anton is because Susan used the name Sharon so there was some confusion about that.

katie8753 said...

Hi Carol!

Sharon was involved in some stupid witchcraft stuff, but it wasn't anything serious as far as I know.

I think she got "way-laid" by Roman's Rosemary's Baby movie and started into that stuff. But it was a past time. When she got preggers, she was full time into her baby. Nothing to that story.

I think at that time, people thought it was "cool" to "belong" to that crap, although most people brushed it off as nonsense.

Unfortunately for Sharon, she was into most things, so she got dissed after she was slaughtered.

Sharon was a free spirit, but she wasn't into anything deadly or diabolical. She was a good girl, and there was no reason for her murder. Had nothing to do with the Manson Family at all.

She didn't even know them. Contrary to others who will say she knew the murderers. NONSENSE!!!

She didn't know any of them. Period.

katie8753 said...

Oh, I have it from a "good source" that I can't reveal, that Jackie K. met Ari O. at Mama Cass's house.

Mama Cass took Jackie aside and said "GO FOR IT!!"

HA HA

There's an old joke that goes like this:

"What did Ari give Jackie as a wedding present?"

"What"?

"An old organ".

HA HA HA HA.

katie8753 said...

Does anyone know who Ansom is????

Mrstormsurge said...

Ansom Williams played "Potsie" on Happy Days. He met Ari Onassis at Mama Cass' too. Yeah, I know it was Anson Williams.

Do you mean who was Ansom13?

Dilligaf said...

katie8753 said...
The only thing I know about Robin Williams is that he married the baby-sitter after having an affair with her.

I had heard he was cheap, but that's going a little far to avoid having to pay the babysitter...

katie8753 said...

>>>Stormy said: Ansom Williams played "Potsie" on Happy Days. He met Ari Onassis at Mama Cass' too. Yeah, I know it was Anson Williams.

Do you mean who was Ansom13?>>>

Stormy, you crack me up!!!!

HA HA HA!

Yes I meant Ansom13. Who is that???

katie8753 said...

>>>Mr. Dill said: I had heard he was cheap, but that's going a little far to avoid having to pay the babysitter...>>>


HA HA HA HA HA!!!

"Good morning Viet-Nam!!" HA HA

katie8753 said...

Well Fiona1933 likes to make comments way back on threads where she can't be thwarted.

Well guess what. I'm gonna bring it up to date.

>>>Fiona said: all I can ever hink of Bret is how he ripped me off. I sent him a lot of money to send me the Hendrickson films and he just took it.>>>

Then I said:

>>>Fiona, I don't think Bret was in the business of "selling" Hendrickson's films. He offered to PAY for info or pictures.

If you wanted Hendrickson's films, why didn't you send money to Hendrickson?????

I'm dismissing your claim as false.

BTW, is "hink" a verb? LOL."

Blog world, tell me what you think of Fiona. LOL.

Mrstormsurge said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mrstormsurge said...

Ansom 13 married TJ Walleman and they had kids. She died from breast cancer I believe and he from an auto accident. I believe both remained loyal to Manson til their ends. Ansom was not there in the late 60's but I believe became a strong follower of Charlie years later after the murders. She went on at least one talk show and vociferously defended Charlie. She would write Charlie and visited him which is where iirc she met TJ. Their kids visited Charlie too and there are pics of Charlie having fun with them.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Stormy for the update on Ansom 13.

I'll tell you tomorrow why I'm asking.

Night all!!

Bing said...

Have been away for a couple days so only getting to comment on this post and comments now.

I think Susan is in the background because i have seen other pics of Susan topless from her time with LaVey and her nipples look almost like rolos, and none of those girls in the pic have rolo type nipples....also about Sharon Tate being on The Beverly Hillbillies here are the links for anyone who wants to watch ithttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMqd2W164HI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFMxrZlWR3M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THphATy5ji4

BTW you guys forgot about Leave it To Beaver in your sitcom lists....I fuckin' loved that show when I was a kid for some reason...don't ask me why though

katie8753 said...

Hi Bing!! I'm not sure what "rolo type" nipples are, but I agree, Susan is in the background.

You're right. We left out Leave it to Beaver. I loved that show too. I still watch it on TV Land.

We also left out Father Knows Best and Ozzie & Harriet. Other great family sitcoms. If only real life was so warm & fuzzy as it was at the Cleaver, Anderson & Nelson homes. HA HA.

TomG said...

Rolo is a candy made by Hershey consisting of chewy caramel wrapped in milk chocolate.

katie8753 said...

>>>Rolo is a candy made by Hershey consisting of chewy caramel wrapped in milk chocolate.>>>

Thanks Tom! HA HA HA.

Bing said...

I was just using rolos as a metaphor when i said rolo type nipples i meant her nipples kinda look like the size and shape of a rolo.Not her breast just the nipple kinda short and stubby...there are lots of different metaphors for nipples, like one of my ex girlfriends used to have nipples that looked lie an eraser on the end of a pencil, and ive seen nipples that are long and skinny that looked like the end of a long skinny baloon that clowns make baloon animals from.

St. Circumstance said...

Bing- never heard your views on Manson...

but if your as thorough in your study of Charlie as you are on the female anatomy..

Your going to be interesting as hell

:)

St. Circumstance said...

byt the way everyone lol I knows blurry but after being told which one she is...

look at the face of the girl in the background over the girl in the middle..

then look atht the three girls in front with Anton...

you really cant tell Thats Susan in the background???

The girl in the background is blurry but the three in front are not- none of them look THAT much like Sadie...

do they???

Bing said...

Hey St. just want to say that I've been a lurker on the blogs for a while now and I've always enjoyed reading your comments here and at the Col.'s blog and on Liz's blog and you always come across as witty, intelligent and well spoken.I am somewhat shy so it has taken me a while to come out of my shell and to start commenting. Also just weant to apoligize if I offended any of the lovely women on here with my last post. I am not sexist or chauvinistic at all, i was just trying to be funny....As for my views on Manson. i am in no way a supporter of CM but I just find the whole case so damn fascinating. i do think Charlie is somewhat of a political prisoner. would he still be locked up if Sharon Tate wasn't a victim?...he never killed anyone, but he is guilty of conspiracy. I can relate to the girls because I came from a well to do family. In south Western Ontario my family name is well known because of the family Business my grandfather started. and when I was younger I had a bit of a substance abuse problem that led to a bit of jail time. So in those regards I symphathize and have that in common with the girls like squeaky and sandy etc. that came from upper middle class backgrounds only to end up fucked up. the difference is I learned from my mistakes and made changes and became a better person. I sometimes wonder though if I was a teenager in the late 60s living in Cali. and came across the family would I have joined up?...i tell myself no but you never know.

My opinion of the whole case is that i don't believe the HS theory made up by the Bug, but i dont know what the motive really was. Maybe drugs?, maybe copycat?...who knows. I just find it interesting and want to know as much as I can find out about it

St. Circumstance said...

Bing....

I'm flattered :)

Thanks, and look forward to learning more about this with you...

Its a hard case to figure out..

It seems that many people on the blogs are quite sure what Wasn't the motive...

I am with Col and most who think Helter Skelter was not the real reason for what went down...

But as I have posted recently elsewhere...

If you know for sure something happened- but you cant be sure or why it happened...

can you be sure of why/how it didn't??

lol after all these years and books and movies and blogs and websites...

I really dont know

St. Circumstance said...

what I meant was...

If you cant be sure how or why it DID happen...

How can you be sure how/Why it DID???

Sorry too much partying today

Typos left and right

Forgive me all my sins

St. Circumstance said...

how or why it didnt lol

o.k. I am putting myself in time out for a bit...

katie8753 said...

St., you need some "hair of the dog that bit you". LOL.

Bing, we all have our opinions on this case. Bugliosi didn't make up the words "Helter Skelter". He got that from family members.

He used that theory to convict Manson. He didn't really think it was the motive either, it was just a "motive theory" that would include Manson as ringleader.

I can't understand why ANYONE would have joined this nasty mess of a "family" back in the 60's or at ANY time. Whether they were rich, middle class or dirt poor.

I don't think Charlie is a "political prisoner". He's the one behind these murders, and I think the only motive is that he was pissed off because his "musical career" hit the skids.

My 2 cents anyway. :)

Bing said...

Katie, i realize Bug didn't invent the words "Helter Skelter" I just don't subscribe to the motive he fabricated to convict Manson.

As far as joining the family...I just think that had I been alive and in Cali in the late 60s I would have been part of the counter cultural movement and prolly would've been seduced by the premise of sex & drugs, peace & love mumbo jumbo that Charlie preached and the girls parroted. You have to remember numerous former members and associate of the family have claimed it was all peace and love and fun times before it turned dark and violent.

At the first notice of violence and what not, I would have fled like TJ did, and Ella Jo Bailey.

I totally agree with you Katie that charlie is the one responsible for these murders, there is no denying that, and i am not sympathetic towards him. I just think if it had not of been for Sharon Tate being a victim, the intrigue and hoopla surrounding this case wouldn't be there. There has been mass murderers since 1969 that after you read the story in the paper or see it on the news, it just gets forgotten. i think without the notoriety of the case cause of the victims and the general interest by the public on the case most of the killers might be free by now, especially Bobby & Bruce & Lulu. They are now labeled and attached to the Manson stigma and will probably never get out

Bing said...

I know this is off topic, but I came across this and some of you might be interested in it. Its a movie called "Gimme Skelter"

here is the synopsis:

What if Charles Manson's illegitimate son decided to follow in his father's footsteps and start his own "family?" They've come to town on a mission... they are going to kill as many people as they can in one night.

Trailer can be viewed at:

http://207.32.176.74/index.php?id=gimme-skelter-teaser-trailer

film can be viewed as well as numerous other Manson related movies and Documentaries at:

http://motionempire.com/Watch_Gimme_Skelter_-2007-_Movie_Online_for_Free_67533.html

v717 said...

The beginning of the end, dec 2 1969.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX0wnoaddXM

katie8753 said...

Hi Bing!!!

>>>Katie, i realize Bug didn't invent the words "Helter Skelter" I just don't subscribe to the motive he fabricated to convict Manson.>>>

Bing, Bugliosi didn't "fabricate it". He gleaned it off Charlie's followers. Charlie was preaching "Helter Skelter", but that isn't the motive.

What I'm saying is...Bugliosi didn't subscribe to it either. So many people get "mis-confused" (haha) by the motive presented in the trials. Bugliosi just used that to convict Charlie.

I don't think that anyone who follows this case thinks that Helter Skelter was the motive.

>>>I just think if it had not of been for Sharon Tate being a victim, the intrigue and hoopla surrounding this case wouldn't be there.>>>

Well you have a point there, but it's not just about WHO was killed, but HOW they were killed.

There have been many serial killers and their murders are sometimes gruesome, sometimes quick.

But if you think about it, what Tex did was so brutal, especially back in 1969, it was un-nerving.

He mutilated a corpse. He stabbed his victims so many times that the stab wounds were hard to count. Overkill!!!

And Tex was a product of Charlie.

I don't think any of them are political prisoners. They were all sentenced to death. They got lucky. Let's not let them get lucky twice.

BTW, thanks for the link for Gimme Shelter. Looks interesting! Can you view it other than online??

katie8753 said...

Thanks V717!

That's one of Bret's videos. LOL.

katie8753 said...

You know, Bing, people like to say Charlie and the rest are political prisoners. I guess that's the "buzz term".

But if you look at Charlie's history, he's been in and out of some type of penal colony for most of his life.

Why? Because every time he was released, he committed another crime.

Why? Because he can't live within the limits of the law.

Why? Because a boring 9 to 5 job isn't his bag. He'd rather do crime which pays more, until you're caught.

So to me it's very simple. If he was ever to be released again, he'd go back to what he knows....crime.

So what's the point of releasing him???

katie8753 said...

Some people think that Leslie, Pat, Bruce and Bobby should be released.

I say not.

Leslie, Pat, Bruce & especially Bobby willingly took part in taking lives. For Leslie, Pat & Bruce, for no reason at all, except that their hippy cult leader told them to.

For Bobby, he just decided that killing Gary would prevent him from getting into trouble.

Bobby for sure should never get out. I really think that the decision to kill Gary wasn't Manson's...it was Bobby's.

Bobby's callous disregard of taking a human life...a human life of a "friend" of his...laughing about it later when he saw the maggots on Gary....driving Gary's car...in my opinion, this makes him just as monstrous as Tex.

Bing said...

Katie, you are totally right. The way those people died was hideous.The killers diserve to remain in jail til the day they die, if it wasnt for the death penalty being abolished they would be dead.

also, you might be able to rent it from netflix, or buy it from amazon or something like that

Marliese said...

Bing said >>>>>I just think if it had not of been for Sharon Tate being a victim, the intrigue and hoopla surrounding this case wouldn't be there. There has been mass murderers since 1969 that after you read the story in the paper or see it on the news, it just gets forgotten. i think without the notoriety of the case cause of the victims and the general interest by the public on the case most of the killers might be free by now, especially Bobby & Bruce & Lulu. They are now labeled and attached to the Manson stigma and will probably never get out<<<<<<


Hi Bing, i like your posts, and i like your candor too. Just don't agree with the above....

These people are never getting out because of the sheer brutality of their crimes. And they shouldn't. I'm sorry that Patricia Krenwinkel, by all accounts a gentle child, grew up to be a killer and commit such horrible acts, but she did, and she will pay with her freedom until the day she dies, just like Susan Atkins paid. These people are lucky they weren't put to death.

Same with Horseteeth...her denial of serious involvement with comments like 'i felt she was already dead' only makes her situation worse, and makes her sound apathetic in the midst of unspeakable human suffering. The facts are that she walked into a private home knowing the people living there were going to be killed and that she was going to participate. She told a jury in her third trial that she thought long and hard about whether or not she could kill and decided that she could. You don't get to live in free society again after you do such things.

Multiple crime scenes with multiple victims at each, extreme violence, bludgeoned, stabbed, shot, ripped up, carving 'war' into a victim's body...like some kind of depraved threat???

I sincerely believe if we combine all the elements of the crimes, very little of the interest we've seen for the last 40 years has been held together by the mediocre celebrity status of one of the many victims...

A young kid like Steven, shot in the face as he drives out of a driveway? A 39 year old wife and mother, asleep in the privacy of her own bedroom ends up with her pillowcase yanked over her head and tied down with her bedside lamp...screaming as she hears her husband being stabbed to death in the next room of their home while filthy skanks hack at her with knives? It's terrifying. My heart aches for Rosemary's bravery, and for her suffering, and for the suffering of all the victims.

I understand your opinion, I just feel strongly that I won't victimize the victims...that if it weren't for who and what they were, there would be less ongoing interest and their killers would be free. I don't think so.

katie8753 said...

Whooo-waahhhh!!! HA HA

Love these posts!!

Bing thanks. I'll look this up on Netflix. Maybe I'll secure it.

Marliese....let it fly babe!!! I'm right with you!!!

>>>Same with Horseteeth...her denial of serious involvement with comments like 'i felt she was already dead' only makes her situation worse, and makes her sound apathetic in the midst of unspeakable human suffering. The facts are that she walked into a private home knowing the people living there were going to be killed and that she was going to participate.>>>

Right on!!! Horseteeth went willingly into a private home, went to Rosemary's bedroom, accosted her, tied a lamp cord around her neck, covered her with a pillow case, held her down, told her it would be alright, until Rosemary started screaming "What are you doing to my husband".

If all of you would just stop and think.

It's a late Saturday night/Sunday morning. You've just gotten home from a long drive from the lake. You've gotten into your night clothes and are settling into bed.

Your home is your castle...right? No one can hurt you there. Especially back then.

Enter Charlie, Tex, Leslie & Pat.

Suddenly your right world turns upside down.

Two girls are on you with lamp cords and knives. Your husband is screaming.

Does anyone realize that BEFORE Tex severed Rosemary's spinal cord that she crawled. She crawled to get away. When the girls called Tex in for the kill, he severed her spinal cord.

And Suzanne wants to forgive him??? I'm telling you what. There's something really wrong with Suzanne. I've said that many, many times. If someone did that to my mother, I would NOT forgive him.

She didn't make it.

Rosemary Labianca had 42 stab wounds to her body. Mostly in the back and lower back. But some in the upper back, which were fatal.

Her nightgown was drawn up above her waist to reveal her naked buttocks. What a nice sight to see for her children.

Horseteeth said she only stabbed her after she was dead.

Nice!!!! Then horsey got cheese and chocolate milk from the fridge that Rosemary had bought that day.

She had no remorse. She HAS no remorse. She's a sick motherfucker that just needs to die.

katie8753 said...

Let's look at the victims for all those who think these fuckers are "political prisoners".

Steve Parent: A high school grad who wanted to go to college. Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang. You're dead.

Abigail Folger: A coffee heiress who could have been on the French Rivera. But chose to stay in LA and help scumbags like the Manson Family. She was stabbed 28 times. Her white nightgown was red.

Jay Sebring: Hairdresser to the Stars. Shot in the shoulder. Hit in the nose with a big shoe. Stabbed again and again.

Voytek Frykowski: A loser asshole living off Folger. Fought for his life, but endured 51 stab wounds, 2 gunshots and bludgeoning of his head that made his head not a head anymore. More like oatmeal.

Sharon Tate: A helpless female who begged and begged to have her baby. Who called for her mama.

No mercy. 16 stab wounds, 3 of which were fatal. Into the heart and lungs.

Leno LaBianca. Tied like a hog. Behind his back. Tex stabbed him in the neck in a main artery. He would die from that.

Then Tex carved WAR in his stomach. Later Pat thought it funny to stab him with a carving knife and see it wobble. The LaBianca's cutlery of course.

Rosemary LaBianaca. I've already told about her stabs.

How ANYONE could think these fuckers should be released is beyond me.

katie8753 said...

And these people want you to think that they are being held as "political prisoners"?

Everything was fine and dandy as long as they could stab and get away with it.

Now that they are caught, they think it's political????

HA HA HA HA.

BAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH, HUMBUGGGGG.

St. Circumstance said...

Hey I just woke back up...

where did everyone go??


:)

katie8753 said...

Hi St. You've been asleep since yesterday. WOW!! LOL.

St. Circumstance said...

People use the term political prisoners in the sense that it is politics- and people who play political games- that results in them not being able to go free..

There is some truth to this...

you cant argue that different people pay different prices for similar crimes at times...

part of why that is does sometimes have to do with the politics of certain people and situations, and the fact that different people have different feelings about different things...

However- what they felt to remember is you have the right not to subject yourself to any else politics if you just simply...

Don't stab people to death...

its quite easy actually.

St. Circumstance said...

I meant fail to remember..

Sigh...

guess I am not ready yet lol


I will try again later

katie8753 said...

I wonder if anyone bought it. LOL.

katie8753 said...

Why are the girls naked in this picture and Anton is clothed??

Hmmmmm....

Is Anton a bit of a sexist? HA HA.

Mrstormsurge said...

The site of Anton nekkid would make me throw chunks Linda Blair pea soup-style.

Personally, I suspect that more than a few of these still imprisoned folks got more blood and other culpability on their hands then they've ever let on.

Mrstormsurge said...

Had some Frank Sinatra on in the background. Sure glad Sadie didn't make a pocketbook outta him.

katie8753 said...

Stormy!!! You always crack me up. HA HA HA.

I agree. These folks in prison have a lot more to admit to than they ever will.

I've spent most of the day researching and have found quite a few interesting things. Will share with you guys anon.

Yeah Sadie bragged about skinning "Ole Blue Eyes". She's a liar.

If they had even tried, they would have been lying in the harbor wearing concrete overshoes faster than a New York cabby turns on his fare meter. HA HA HA.

katie8753 said...

Stormy I agree.

There's "good naked" and "bad naked". And he's definitely "bad naked". He looks like he's carrying a whale to term. HA HA.

Mrstormsurge said...

Good one, Katie.

MrPoirot said...

Tex said he was there to do the devil's business. Wonder what led to that statement. I haven't seen much mentioning Tex's connection to Satanism.

Sadie was into Satan prior to Cielo and Linda called herself a witch. I can see where those two have an evil training background.

Patricia Krenwinkle was as violent as Tex at Cielo. It's tough to explain how Patricia. Her life at Spahn's is not well documented.

katie8753 said...

Mr. P., I think Tex's statement about "the devil's business" directly tied into Charlie.

Charlie claimed to be the devil, and he sent Tex on that mission.

Therefore, "the devil's business".

I think I can try to explain Patricia as time goes on.

Susan was a sponge. She soaked up everything she came in contact with. She only parroted what she heard.

Linda is just a drugged-out loser. She's not noteworthy. She was too "pure" to kill for Charlie, but not too pure to ruin every life she touched afterward.

MrPoirot said...

Patricia was the most violent woman at the ranch.

Dilligaf said...

I think that Mary Brunner was more dangerous, she just held it together better.

Marliese said...

MrPoirot said...>>>>
Patricia was the most violent woman at the ranch.<<<<<

Was she violent prior August 8, 1969, or before hooking up with Charlie?

MrPoirot said...

That's the thing Marliese. If that were a pic of Patricia with Anton Lavey then it would be easier to understand Patricia's two nights of gore. Perhaps it is Patricia, not Leslie van houten, who least fits the profile of a killer?
Anybody can understand a blood drinking devil worshipper becoming a killer but Patricia had no violence in her past prior to Charlie waking her up the night of Aug 8 and telling her to "do what Tex tells you". How did Charlie know that Patricia would be his most blood thirtsy assasin? there were other girls already awake that were standing around fully aware of the gravity of what was brewing. Patricia was sleeping off a LSD hangover minding her own business. Yet Charlie knew she'd kill for him.

katie8753 said...

Mr. Dill, I agree with you. Mary is a lot more dangerous than people think.

She knew Gary was murdered and it didn't bother her a bit. That's chilling to me. A man that had helped her out keeping her baby so he wouldn't be taken away from her.

Then she got on the stand and lied her ass off about it according to which way the wind was blowing. She should have been convicted of murder with the rest of them.

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