Monday, December 5, 2011

Bobby and Barbara
They met in an interesting way.  Barbara saw a television report about Kenneth Anger.  Bobby was building the Syntar (which was then called “the dream machine), as well as some keyboards, for the soundtrack of Anger's movie.  Barbara decided to write Bobby a letter.  In Bobby’s words:

"She wrote me a letter just to say that she felt a kinship with me, because she's an artist and a creative person as well, and she admired me for leaming how to apply myself in my situation, for how I'd overcome the circumstances to maintain a level of creativity.  There was something special about her letter.  It was simply honest and straightforward, and contained no hint of an interest in any notoriety I may have had, which I found refreshing.  So I wrote her back and thanked her for her kind remarks.  We struck up a friendship, in letters, at first.  She was an apprentice carpenter at that time and working on the capitol building in Sacramento; she became a journeyman carpenter shortly after we were married.  After we exchanged a few letters, she came down to visit—she was so ignorant of prison and all of that, that when she showed up for her first visit she had a bottle of wine in the back of the car, thinking that we could sit out and drink it together"!

Within a couple months of meeting each other… "she" asked him to marry her.  They were married in December 1981.  (Bobby had been married about 6 months prior to that, but it was immediately annulled - it had been a marriage of desperation, you know, conjugal visits and all).  Barbara is also a painter and belongs to a Middle Eastern dance troupe. 
Bobby again:

"We're both visual artists—she's a painter and I've done a lot of illustrations and paintings and drawings, and so that's one of our ways of communicating, to share with one another our creative output.  We both write a bit, we've of course done a lot of corresponding.  Barbara's put out some publications that I've assisted her with, things like that.  And there's the music—she's a dancer, I'm a musician".
===================================================================
Bobby was born in Santa Barbara, California in 1947.  He was the first of 5 children, 3 boys and 2 girls.  His father was a milkman, delivering for Arden Farms; his father went on to become a manager - they weren't poor, and weren't wealthy by far, but they always got by.  His dad bought a tract home in 1955, on the GI Bill.... where he spent most of his years growing up.  He spent a lot of time at his grandmother's house in El Monte, CA.  When he was 11 years old, he found an old guitar in her attic and pretty much taught himself to play.  He loved Rock and Roll, especially "Hound Dog".  One summer when he about 13-14, he went to stay with his grandmother again and met a few friends.  He used to help one of the friends at their parents' gas station.  After closing, a bunch of the kids would get together and play guitars.  He loved doing that so much, when it was time to go back to school in Santa Barbara, he refused to go - he wanted to stay and hang out with his friends.  A few months later, he and his friends were caught vandalizing, and he was sent to Juvenile Hall in LA, then to (Reform school) Los Prietos Fire Camp up in the Santa Barbara hills...

98 comments:

MrPoirot said...

Bobby knows he messed up bad really early in life but I don't think he ever came to terms with the fact that he started the most notorious murder spree in the 20th century. He still refused to straighten up in prison. He chose to worship satan. If I were a parole board member i'd never even consider paroling a devil worshipper. Bobby aint all there. He's definantly narcissistic.

Nimrod said...

MrPoirot said...

>>>If I were a parole board member i'd never even consider paroling a devil worshipper. Bobby aint all there. He's definantly narcissistic.<<<

MrPoirot ..... Repeat after me, "All we are saying, is give Peace a Chance" :-)

Do you anything about history or current events?

Only a few posts back, i gave V717 a whole bunch of links that show the Satanic practice of the Bush Family who sons have done everything humanly possible to usher in a New World Order for their Satanic Illuminati Elites.

Bobby Beausoleil is the not the problem here.

Many European and American Leaders both Political and Corporate have been known to openly give the famous Satanic hand signals to each other at social events.

Forget about Bohemian Grove and what goes on there and who the members of this exclusive club are which includes some BIG names in Hollywood along with other Hollywood individuals not as prominent as some.

Bobby Beausoleil used the Devil to get laid. Girls love that shit. It's like a way of getting back at their overly Christian Parents.

Bobby Beausoleil is an accomplished artist and musician who could give something back to society. His wife, Barbara, is also an artist. They produce something that benefits mankind unless the crazies in office today who are doing everything possible to destroy mankind.

If anything, the Parole Board Members belong in jail for deliberately ignorning the laws as they pertain to determining parole "suitability".

You say that Bobby Beausoleil is Narcissistic? What about Barak Obama? Wouldn't you say that he is Narcissistic?

At least Bobby Beausoleil can produce his birth certificate if asked for unlike the fellow we have in the oval office who photoshopped his.

Sorry Poirot. You are dead wrong on this issue.

MrPoirot said...

I should not have spoken. What was I thinking? I will go back to the barn now and saddle up your other big white horses.

dbryant said...

Nimrod

The Parole Board is doing
their job. They are supposed
to keep criminals in jail that
aren't rehabilitated yet.
Obviously they are reading his
reports to determine this.
Why do you think he got a 5
year denial the last time?

Bobby still hasn't told the
parole board the truth about
why Gary was murdered. Seems
they also look at this before
they release them. The actual
facts and why the crime was
committed.

Jim,

I'm sure you seen his artwork
I don't know how this type of
art would have any contribution
to society. I am sure some people
like it I don't. Why? because it
pertains to the Devil and
Satanism.

Either way just because people
think his Art & Music is good
doesn't mean he should be paroled
When He still has other issues
to resolve.

Just like Tex & Bruce shouldn't
be released just because they are
born again christians.

Jim,

I'm not going to sit here and
tell you are wrong. You have much
different opinions than mine.
I am just telling you things
the parole board looks at.

See I could argue with some people
till I am blue in the face and
it still wouldn't matter.

But don't tell others they
are wrong just because you
disagree with them. Because
alot of this is fact.

Jiri said...

You've got to admire him for not letting his situation get the best of him and find ways to be creative.

There's nothing to the satan worship thing. Hewasn't involved with white supremacy either.

katie8753 said...

Why are some women attracted to convicted murderers? Can't they find a regular guy with a job? LOL.

Gary Hinman was a peaceful, likable guy. He never went out of his way to hurt anyone.

He most likely would like to have had a wife and children of his own, but that won't ever happen, because Bobby decided that it was time for him to die.

Why? Well, that depends on what day it is.

Bobby needs to stay right where he is, painting and playing the guitar. He's lucky he's still alive.

St. Circumstance said...

Bobby is a self absorbed egotistical maniac who was not nearly as bright as he was conceited....

That is very very clear if you read enough of his own words...


Barbara is to me much like the Wife of Tex Watson or any of the husbands of the incarcerated women- very SAD...

What does it say about you when you chose this path in life???

of tall the available options- and all the people you meet in life???

You chose someone you can never spend any quality time with- or private time with... or share the precious moments of life with....


What else can I say???

all around very sad group of people

St. Circumstance said...

I mean- we all try and chose the right people in life dont we ??

We like to think we know the people we love- but still sometimes we are shocked...

to know ahead of time what a persons true colors are, and still chose these type of people with the advantage of hindsight????

Madness I say


Choosing to meet and devote your life to Tex or Bobby- knowing what they had done- is just as sick to me in a way- as some of the things they have done...

or LULU/KATIE/SADIE for that matter- or really any of them

They were sick little animals who were caged for all the world to see...

You want to crawl in that cage with them???

Then that's where you should belong

In my opinion :)

katie8753 said...

I agree St.

Why would anyone even make the effort to even write a convicted killer a letter? Much less pursue a relationship or marriage with these people.

And I have to say I feel sorry for these kids that are born to these killers. How do you explain to friends that your father is not only a killer, but used to be associated with Charles Manson. Talk about having trouble "fitting in". LOL.

St. Circumstance said...

Sigh....

I didn't even bother to go into the effect it has on the kids...

You think Tex - for one- cared what anybody else in the world had to deal with besides himself???

St. Circumstance said...

one last comment on the Bobby Beautiful...

He had the chance to be an accomplished musician- and a better chance than most. He had a few in's, and was around at the earliest stages of a growing movement. He had every opportunity to be all the good things people always want to say about him...

but he chose something much darker...

now he is living with those choices..

Gary didn't get to have a choice

katie8753 said...

That's true St.

Bobby grew up in a comfortable middle class home. He wasn't an orphan. His parents weren't drunks. He wasn't abused. He pretty much had as ideal a life as you can get.

He, like so many of the girls who joined this "group of misfits", has no excuse for choosing to lie, steal and kill. He has no one to blame but himself.

And really, if you think about it, killing Gary is even more heinous when you look at the relationship Gary & Bobby had before the murders. They were actually "friends", with Gary going out of his way to help out many times with "family problems".

MrPoirot said...

There were hints that Bobby was a murderer waiting to kill even when he was with Kenneth Anger in Frisco. He was already into satanism. He was already writing messages on the wall in RED. He was already wearing a sheath knife. He would ealk around with a falcon on his shoulder.

katie8753 said...

Didn't Bobby & Kenneth Anger have a big blowout when they were working together the first time?

I think Bobby has a short fuse.

MrPoirot said...

K Anger and Beausoleil argued over who owned what in their film endeavors. Bobby stole the film saying they were his. They had a falling out. Whi is to say who did what though. Anybody know?

Nimrod said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nimrod said...

katie8753 said...

>>>>Why are some women attracted to convicted murderers? <<<<

By Convicted Murderers i'm assuming you're referring to heros of the revolution?


>>>>Gary Hinman was a peaceful, likable guy. He never went out of his way to hurt anyone. <<<

Gary Hinman was involved with drugs. A seller of drugs is someone who is providing another human being the opportunity to destroy his/her life while at the same time allowing this user of drugs to be a burden to the local community in which he/she lives.

Gary was portrayed as a nice, clean cut, kind of guy who took stray men into his home and gave food and shelter and whatever else they may have craved, but the sad reality is that Bobby was involved in some kind of a drug related event in which he was to get money back for a bad batch of drugs that Gary had sold to him that he allegedly pass on to one of the local biker clubs.

Things didn't go down according to plan, Manson was contacted by Bobby in which he was drawn into something that had nothing to do with him and then Bobby killed the guy probably to keep him from going to the cops when Manson sliced his ear with the sword.

Drug deals usually have very bad endings, and in this saga, we can see what went down.

Nimrod said...

MrPoirot said...

>>>I should not have spoken. What was I thinking? I will go back to the barn now and saddle up your other big white horses.<<<

Hasta Siempre Comandante Poirot !

CarolMR said...

"He most likely would like to have had a wife and children of his own, but that won't ever happen, because Bobby decided that it was time for him to die." - katie

I think Gary Hinman was gay. Not that there was anything wrong with that.

St. Circumstance said...

Gary might have been Gay
He probably did sell drugs
He may have been a real piece of shit for all I know...

but it still did not give Bobby a right to stab him and let him bleed to death over two days...

did it?

katie8753 said...

Where are my manners? I forgot to say hello and welcome to dbryant. Good to see you!! :)

katie8753 said...

>>>Jimmy said: By Convicted Murderers i'm assuming you're referring to heros of the revolution?>>>

No I'm referring to people who kill other people for other than self-defense.

Jimmy I've never seen any proof that Gary sold or took drugs. I'm not buying any of that.

I think Bobby just wanted money from Gary...period.

According to Bobby, the girls called Manson to come "take care of things."

I do think that Bobby eventually killed Gary to keep his own butt out of trouble.

And Bobby wasn't exactly a Rocket Scientist, driving the stolen car that belongs to a guy you just killed and sleeping on the side of the road. Yeah...that's REAL smart. LOL.

MrPoirot said...

Hinman did give Bobby everything of value that he had on the property. It ain't like Hinman refused to give Bobby his money back. There was no cash in the house. Bobby try to get blood from a stone. What purpose could be served by two days of torturing Hinman? Hinman gave Bobby several hundred dollars worth of cars. That was a good ways towards paying back Bobby. Bobby had become a lowlife whom could waste human life like swatting a fly. I doubt Bobby knew what he had become.
Hell, it's been 42 yrs and we still don't know if bad mescaline was actually why Bobby went to Hinman's. It may have been a straight forward robbery.
One thing for sure: Hinman misjudged Bobby.

bobby said...

Just a guess, a gut feeling if you will. Drug deals are like plane crashes. Thousands & thousands happen with out an issue. But when one goes wrong it can really go bad.

MrPoirot said...

Hinman had developed a mescaline brewing technique that enabled him to omitt two steps in the manufacturing process.

bobby said...

MrPoirot said

Hinman had developed a mescaline brewing technique that enabled him to omitt two steps in the manufacturing process

and you back this statement up with what ?

and i ask that with respect.

MrPoirot said...

Bobby my reaction when I read that was the same as yours. It was in one of the many books on the case. I don't remember which one. The author didn't say how they knew that. It's an interesting tidbit though. I blurted it out hoping maybe somebody in here could elaborate further.

katie8753 said...

Mr. P., when the police searched Gary's house after finding his body, there is no mention of drug manufacturing paraphernalia.

Seeing that Bobby killed him very suddenly and surprisingly, I'm sure that Gary didn't have time to "clean the place up" to not be caught making any type of drugs.

Why do you think he was making mescaline?

katie8753 said...

Mr. P., I agree with you that Gary gave Bobby everything he possibly could that had any value, which was basically his 2 cars.

Stop and think about it. He had 2 rundown cars, which were basically his only transportation to get back and forth to work (yes...he had a job...unlike anyone else in this scenario). That must have been a real low blow to have to give away his vehicles.

But that wasn't enough for Bobby. I guess somehow he thought if he kept on torturing Gary, somehow he'd shit out some more money or something.

He's a real genius, that Bobby.

katie8753 said...

Hi Bobby!!

>>>Bobby said: Just a guess, a gut feeling if you will. Drug deals are like plane crashes. Thousands & thousands happen with out an issue. But when one goes wrong it can really go bad.>>>

That's true Bobby!!

MrPoirot said...

Bobby has said himself that Gary manufactured mescaline. Bobby has claimed the stuff was bad and the bikers he sold the stuff to wanted their money back or else.
However, one of the inner circle girls said they regretted telling everyone that Gary had inherited $20K. This chick says that got Gary murdered.
There is testimony that backs up both murder scenarios.

No there wouldn't have been drug making tools left in the house. Gary wouldn't be that stupid. Gary was fixing to leave for Europe in a few days. his home was probably cleaned of all drug residue or paraphanalia.
It ain't like Gary would leave behind a big wooden box labled "ACME mescaline manufacturing kit".

Meep meep!

Nimrod said...

katie8753 said...

>>>
Why would anyone even make the effort to even write a convicted killer a letter? Much less pursue a relationship or marriage with these people.<<<

Why should this matter Katie?

Who are we to judge people?

This tabloid society that's been created feeds off of that which goes against the norm.

Accept it for what is and let people pursue the things in life that bring that they were perhaps meant to pursue.

Just because this is something that you wouldn't do personally doesn't mean that it's not something inappropriate for someone to do.

God brings people together for certain purposes and what may seem unnatural for you may be part of some divine plan that we just don't understand at the surface.

If God brings some people together for whatever reason, then who are we to question his purpose?

Sometimes things happen in life because they were meant to. It's as if it was already preprogrammed into what would be played out historically in time.

You just have the privilige of watching one of God's chosen disciples fulfill their destiny right before your very eyes.

That's something to marvel at, not something that you should be critical of.

v717 said...

Kenneth Anger tells how Bobby got mixed up with the Manson family.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9MZmEGLR0U

katie8753 said...

Mr. P., Bobby's first story was that Manson had heard that Gary had inherited money, and he wanted him to get it.

Why in the world would Gary clean up any drug-making equipment before he left for Europe? He had no idea that anyone would be in his house, especially the police looking for his dead body. Makes no sense.

MrPoirot said...

Because the directions in the ACME kit said so.

katie8753 said...

Jimmy, I don't mean to sound critical, but in my way of thinking, as hard as it is to make a marriage work, why reach into a "bag of darkness" to even get started on the search?

I would think that a sane and sensible person with no prison record would prefer searching the "personals" in hopes that none of the potential suitors even has a prison record.

That's just common sense.

katie8753 said...

>>>Mr. P said: Because the directions in the ACME kit said so.>>>

HA HA HA HA HA. Okay, it's Wiley Ky-yo-tee once again. LOLOL.

katie8753 said...

Gary Hinman was a very accomplished individual.

I'm quoting from memory here, but I believe he had a degree, and was accomplished at playing at least 3 instruments, one being the bagpipes.

He taught piano and guitar to various students, thereby making a meager living.

His musical interests were probably the cruxt of his interest in Manson & Bobby, maybe advising them on their fledgling attempts at making any type of music that was "listenable".

He had converted to Zen Buddhism because of his peace-living ways.

In fact, the trip to Europe that he was taking was with his Buddhist friends.

He certainly didn't deserve to die in his own home.

Bobby bragged a few days after the murder that he went back and maggots were eating Gary's body, and he laughed about it.

Bobby Beausoleil deserves to die in prison, just like he made Gary die in agony in his own living room.

katie8753 said...

And I'll say one more thing.

Missy, close your ears.

The music to Lucifer Rising SUCKS!!!

It's the most God-awful sound (not akin to music) that I've ever heard.

It's worse than a a car screeching stop to avoid a collision, and 2 cats fucking combined.

It should have been used in the movie "A Clockwork Orange" to drive Malcolm McDowell crazy. To petrify and punish him into a senseless blather in which he could only look glassy-eyed and drool.

Bobby's art sucks too. It's just a bunch of crap that he's hocking to anyone with no sense of style who would eagerly buy it up, because it was drawn by a half-wit murderer.

Maybe it will sell at Sotheby's someday. But Bobby won't collect.

He'll end up in a plywood coffin, covered with dirt, and remembering Gary's last sounds and last breaths.

adam said...

One thing that Bobby does have going for him is at least he dropped the whole "Charlie made me do it" excuse years ago and accepted responsibilty for his own actions, unlike Tex, Sadie, Bruce etc...

katie8753 said...

Well Adam, if you'll remember, Bobby had lots of reasons why he killed Gary. He blamed Charlie first. that didn't work.

Blaming Charlie or someone else. He finally decided on blaming himself.

That was a big risk at getting out. Didn't happen.

It's like Wheel of Fortune. Which is the best answer? Just spin that wheel. None of his answers got him out. HA HA

beauders said...

first off hinman was travelling to japan to study his religion. i have been studying this case since 1994 and have not come across any real evidence that hinman was manufacturing and dealing drugs. it was most likely a rumor sanders heard and wrote as fact. beausoleil latched onto the idea because he knows he looks better the more independant from manson he is. beausoleil went to hinman's to get money because manson told him to. ella jo bailey started the rumor that hinman had inherited money but when he was murdered bailey ran. beausoleil like all the guys in the family were more independent than the girls but they were still pretty dedicated to him. beausoleil had a daddy complex just look at his relation-ship with anger then his relationship as manson. he's a jerk who tortured then murdered his friend he should spend the rest of his life in prison. and katie i agree his drawings and music suck.

adam said...

Hi Katie,
You are right it could just be a contrived effort on Bobby's part to get parole. Only he knows for sure.

I will say I like his Anger soundtrack. It's better than Jimmy Page's aborted attempt and Jagger's 9 minutes of bleeps.

Nimrod said...

Hey Skynyrd,

Just wanted to let you know that the disturbed Canadian woman who's been stalking me online, Miss Spiritual Tramp 1979, is back over on Michael's channel as 2012LuciferRising talking about me once again.

She can't seem to resist the urge not to make a reference to me on a board i don't participate in. She's like a female dog in heat.

I guess things must get pretty lonely up there in Canada.

Anyway, i'm out of here and I just wanted to wish you and your readers a very happy and joyous holiday season.

I hate to leave on a whim, but i honestly believe that this woman from canada is mentally insane and is stalking me so it's just another episode that I can do without.

Be well and have a great holiday one and all.

MrPoirot said...

beauders said...
first off hinman was travelling to japan to study his religion. i have been studying this case since 1994 and have not come across any real evidence that hinman was manufacturing and dealing drugs. it was most likely a rumor sanders heard and wrote as fact.


Poirot replies:


Not that it matters because Hinman never went anywhere, but Buddhism is an India religion. Isn't Japan more Shinto religion? I didn't know Buddhism had any Japanese connection or that Hinman was going to Japan. Can you study Buddhism in Japan? I guess you can, I don't know.

I have read that the Family was already into Hinman for money from a previous drug deal. Manson also talks about the "bad mescaline". If Hinman had no drug dealing habits I would expect his sister would have denied these rumors but she never denied this about Hinman. It certainly appears that Hinman was a manufacturer and dealer of drugs. Perhaps when Ella Jo Bailey eroneously stated that Hinman had inherited $20K, she basically put a noose around Hinman's neck. The inheritence claim by Ella Jo came at a time when Charlie was in dire need of cash. If Beausoleil had just purchased $2500 of mescaline from Hinman and then Charlie and Bobby heard Hinman has inherited $20K it's easy to see how They thought Hinman was loaded with cash at that time. Charlie was expecting a big payout from robbing Hinman and wouldn't take no for an answer from a guy who Charlie wrongly thought had $22,500,00.

dbryant said...

Jim

Rather than be a Bobby Sympathizer
why don't you get to the real
facts of the case. I know its
hard for you to do.

But see its like this if you have
read Bobby & Bruce's most
recent letters they tell you Hinman
was no drug dealer. At least I can
read. I do believe them. What would
they have to lie about at this point?

Mr. P

Gary's sister never says Gary
was a Drug Dealer. Why? because
he wasn't. I have read the reports
and no Drugs or Mescaline lab was
found at Gary's house. Although
Sanders does mention this in is
book this is false. I'm sure we
all should know by now you can't
believe everything you read.

Mr. P

I will agree with when you say
Bobby said Hinman was a drug dealer. But that was his orginal
statement and what he told the
parole board. He doesn't say this
now.

I imagine the reason he told the
parole board this in the first
place was to make things easier
on himself at that time. It would
of been alot simpler for Bobby & Bruce both if they had just told
the truth in the first place rather
than changing their stories.
Maybe they would of been paroled
by now if they did this.

Jim

Before you are so eager to put
the Blame on Gary why don't you
take a good look in the mirror.
Doesn't seem like your much of a
person to me either. You can
take it as an insult if you like.

From what I am told Gary did trust
Bobby Why? I guess he figured he
was his friend. That cost him his life. Jim whether you want to believe it or not Gary was a very
nice person who did go out of his
way to help people. He wasn't
the sad messed up drug dealer
you portray him as.

Also as for Bobby's wife it's
not up to me to judge her for marrying Bobby. But I just don't
feel their wives should complain
when they don't get paroled.
When they knew they married
a conviced murderer.


Hi Katie

You seem to be a pretty cool
person to me. Keep up the
good work on the Blog.

Also Lynyrd I have spoken with by
email. Just wanted to say that he
is a very nice Guy.

MrPoirot said...

DBryant I doubt the story about Gary not being a dealer. If Gary knew Beausoleil it was because of drugs. Beausoleil lived in a drug world. He didn't hang with straights.
Saying there was no drug paraphanalia found in Gary's house isn't proof of Gary not making mescaline. It just means Gary made the mescaline somewhere else. Gary would not be dumb enough to leave drugs or drug paraphanalia behind in his house unless hev wanted to return to the US with cops waiting at customs. Gary would have tidied up his affairs before leaving for an extended religious sabbatical.
Beausoleil talked about the bad mescaline for decades. Suddenly he retracts that statement and you buy that? I can't. It just means that Beausoleil is trying another approach to getting parole. He stuck with his origonal story too long for there not to be some truth to it. Manson also told the same story about Gary's bad mescaline. For decades he has talked about the bad mescaline. Manson has never recanted that.

katie8753 said...

Pearl Harbor was bombed 70 years ago today. A day that will live in infamy....

katie8753 said...

I've read several versions of what happened, but I'll relate the one that makes the most sense to me, after studying the characters in this scenario:

Manson was told (by Ella Jo?) that Gary had inherited money. Manson called Gary and asked him to join the family, knowing that when someone joined, the money came along with them.

Gary refused. He had his own life, his music, his students and his religion. He said he was more than happy to be friends, but didn't want to join the family.

Manson then asked Gary to give him some money. Gary said he would be glad to help out, except that he didn't have any money. He had just financed a trip abroad and was out of funds.

Manson threatened him....Gary hung up.

Manson then told Bobby to go to Gary and get this "inheritance".

And the rest of the story we know.

I don't think Gary's murder had anything to do with drugs. It was all about Manson needing money.

dbryant said...

Mr. P

I know you are
one of those people that think
you know everything.

Maybe you can go back to telling
us more about what you have
read in books.

See I know more about Gary than
you do.

I also know this Gary did have a
small drug problem at one time.
But he was never a dealer.

Where do you suppose he made
this bad mesc?

Don't put words in my mouth.
Because I do have the correct
facts.

dbryant said...

Katie

Yes, You are correct. It was
about money and they wanted Gary
to join the family.

Also Gary's trip was to Japan.
I don't know much about
buddhism. But if you read
up on it it is common in Japan
but originated in India.

katie8753 said...

dbryant, do you know:

(1) if there even was an actual inheritance, and if so

(2) Who did Gary inherit from and how much?

St. Circumstance said...

Here is what I think about the Gary as a drug dealer theory...

1) I dont believe it....

Nobody found drugs or money at his house... not the attackers, nor the cops who followed up...

O.K.- he was getting ready to leave town BUT- wouldn't he have needed some money to do so? These were the days before debit cards dont forget. The fact that they came up with nothing but vehicles to take with them, and the cops found nothing is very curious - since you have to figure Gary wasn't probably planning to have his entire life sorted through by strangers with no notice...

2) What is the difference?


Especially in this scenario- they were friends..

Maybe he sold a little on the side- maybe he didn't. Maybe he was big - time- maybe not...

He knew these people
He helped these people on more than one occasion

They treated him like he was no more human than a rag doll...

Pricked at him- poked at him- threw him around- beat him up...

let him bleed and suffer slowly for hour after hour...

Then killed him...


If it makes anyone feel better to say he was drug dealer...

I cannot understand why????

St. Circumstance said...

I say- who cares what the times are?

Who cares what the guy does for a living?

Who cares how cool you are- or how much you want to impress your buddies and some dirty luv sluts who crawl around you...

You cant hurt or kill people who you call friends....

If you give someone your trust, and take from them favors- then turn on them and harm them....

your the lowest of low in my book


:)

St. Circumstance said...

and as I said earlier...

Those who chose to worship you, and devote there lives to you/marry you..

are almost as hard to understand as you are- but certainly more pathetic as they have many choices available to them- and still they chose people like you???

Sad statement about the way some people are raised and about the options they have available to them....

St. Circumstance said...

Gidget is a guy I grew up with in high School, and he lives a few miles away from me in the next town...

I get my weed from him ,and so do a few of the other guys I hang out with and play Mens League Sports with...

He doesn't really " Deal" -but he gets big enough quantities when he gets for himself- so that all four of five of us get our monthly bags a bit cheaper... so technically I cant argue if you say he does sell weed.

I have known him since we were teenagers, and we hang out all the time.... We always have partied together and still do- I am able to save a little money using his connections- and we are friends- so I do...


Now my question to all Bobby excuse makers out there is this???


If one of the other guys in our group of friends were to get desperate for one reason or another,need money or weed, and break into Gidgets house and kill him because on that particular day- there was not anything of value there to take and they were afraid he would narc if let go....


Do you think it would matter to anyone who knew or loved Gidget that he sold a few quarters of weed from time to time????


Should anyone love or miss him one bit less???

would it affect me any less???

Should it???

Will what have happened to him be any less wrong???

Can you really not get this???

MrPoirot said...

dbryant said...
Mr. P

I know you are
one of those people that think
you know everything.

Maybe you can go back to telling
us more about what you have
read in books.

See I know more about Gary than
you do.

I also know this Gary did have a
small drug problem at one time.
But he was never a dealer.

Where do you suppose he made
this bad mesc?

Don't put words in my mouth.
Because I do have the correct
facts.

Poirot replies:

You are Don Murphy aka The Col.

katie8753 said...

St., I agree with you totally. Gary was a nice guy. Didn't deserve to die. Especially not at the hands of a guy that he had laughed with, partied with, played music with and trusted.

If Gary was afraid of Manson, having been threatened by him, I'm surprised he let Bobby & the girls in his house that day.

But...knowing charming little "Cupid", he probably just flashed a big smile and told Gary they just wanted to hang out for a while or something. Then once they were inside, Gary's goose was cooked. All because he trusted the wrong people.

katie8753 said...

It's a shame that in all these murders we only have the words of lying killers to try to figure out what really happened.

Gary can't tell us what happened. He can't defend himself. He's dead.

Bobby, Mary & Susan are ALL notorious, story-changing liars.

katie8753 said...

Mr. P, dbryant is not the Col.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Well stated Circumstance... I agree.

Like everyone else, I've heard (both) the drug and inheritance motives, countless times.

However...
I've never seen convincing physical evidence of either (motive).

I've never seen convincing physical evidence that drugs were being manufactured or sold (by Gary).

I've never seen convincing physical evidence that Gary had inherited money... or was by anyone's standards wealthy.

For this reason, I'm (personally) very hesitant, to commit myself to either theory.

BUT... it really doesn't matter.
Regardless of which motive one adheres to... Bobby's participation and guilt are incontrovertible.
Bobby killed Gary... admits to it, and that's-that.

The point (as Saint suggested) is this:
Gary's life is no less valuable... regardless of which story one believes.

Even IF (and that's a big "IF")...
Gary sold a few drugs on the side, to supplement his income... he certainly was no "Stanley Owsley"... or modern-day meth lab.

If you look at Gary's photo... he doesn't look like a drug addict.
He looks more like Richie Cunningham.
Compare Gary's photo to TJ Wallerman, or Larry Melton... you'll see my point. LOL

If Gary WAS a "big-time drug dealer "... there would have been evidence of that.
Big-time drug dealers leave a trail of connections, and evidence of their behavior.
Even Bobby himself admits now (paraphrasing):
"the whole drug thing was over-blown".

I'm personally convinced Gary was "small-time" at best... if he was a drug-dealer at all.

Bottom line...
This whole mindset:
"Gary's just another victim of the drug trade"... is a gross over-simplification, and places zero value on Gary's life.


Like everyone else... I can't prove a motive, because physical evidence doesn't exist.

BUT, no matter how you slice the cake... Gary did not deserve to be killed... and there's no justifying Bobby's actions.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

((((((((((BOB))))))))))

Great to see you Brother!!!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hello DBryant!

Yes...
I remember our e-mail conversation.
Great to see you on the blog!

Like I said...
Have fun with it... and don't take anything too seriously.
It's the same 30 rednecks (posting the same shit) on all these blogs anyway! Ahahahaha

Peace... Lynyrd

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Poirot... chill out.

DBryant, is not the Colonel.

CarolMR said...

"Gary might have been Gay
He probably did sell drugs
He may have been a real piece of shit for all I know...

but it still did not give Bobby a right to stab him and let him bleed to death over two days...

did it?" - St. Circumstance

Never meant to imply that Gary possibly being gay gave Bobby the right to kill him. Just trying to say that if Gary were alive now he may not have had a wife and children.

St. Circumstance said...

Carol...

point taken- sorry wasn't trying to be gruff towards you in any way :)

St. Circumstance said...

this subject comes up on lots of blogs and Garys private life seems to be reason for some to justify what happened to him....

sometimes ones lifestyle is a valid reason for ones personal tragedies- but I think not in this case...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Jim said:

>>>>"Anyway, i'm out of here and I just wanted to wish you and your readers a very happy and joyous holiday season".<<<<

All the Best to You, Jim!

Although... I must admit, I hate to see you go.
Seeing you post on-topic for a few days straight, is something I haven't experienced in years.
It was a throw-back to "old times".

I was kinda hoping to hook you in, as a "regular".
Non one, but no one... can create posts like Jim!
... and that's a fact! LOLOL

Here's Wishing You a very Happy, Healthy, and Blessed Holiday Season from the Blog.

Thanks for all the great information on Frank Howard's movie, and Melton's 1986 interview.

Visit Again Soon!

Take Care... Lynyrd

CarolMR said...

"point taken- sorry wasn't trying to be gruff towards you in any way :)" - St. Circumstance

No worries - I didn't take it that way!

MrPoirot said...

It is very easy to document both MOs in the Hinman murder. Beausoleil himself has admitted both MOs. It looks like Manson thought Gary had $22,500.00

$2,500.00 mescaline deal
$20,000.00 rumored inheritance

Was the mescaline bad? It looks like it. Mary, Sadie, Bobby and Charlie all detail the two day struggle to get $2,500.00 back from Gary from the inferior mescaline batch. None of them mentioned the inheritance money in the trial.
There was an attempt to get Gary to join the Family. That to me says there is an implied attempt to get Gary to hand over everything he owned IE: the inheritance. There was no overt mention of the $20,000.00 by any of the four home invaders.
it appears Beausoleil now wants to remove his claim that Gary made and sold mescaline in order to remove any appearance of putting blame on the victim for his own murder.

dbryant said...

Poirot,

Did it ever occur to you that
Bobby has a conscious now and
is trying to come clean about
why Gary died?

Katie

You asked if Gary had inherited
money? No, but he did have a small
amount of money that a relative
gave him to put aside in case of
emergency. I don't have an actual
amount.

After Gary's divorce he didn't
have alot of money. So his parents
sent him a small amount so that
it would help him with bills while
he was attending school and working
part time. This information I am
getting from one of Gary's
older relatives.

Anyway, Thanks for letting me
share a few things about Gary.

katie8753 said...

Thanks dbryant!

I didn't know Gary was ever married. Why do people think he was gay???

I always wondered how Gary made ends meet, with going to school and teaching music. I know that teaching music doesn't earn a whole lot of money.

I'm assuming that he owned the house he lived in. I haven't seen the inside of the house, but it looks like a big house to me. I wonder what his payments were.

MrPoirot said...

dbryant said...
Poirot,

Did it ever occur to you that
Bobby has a conscious now and
is trying to come clean about
why Gary died

Poirot replies:

I couldn't care less Don.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Mr. Poirot said:
>>>>It is very easy to document both MOs in the Hinman murder. Beausoleil himself has admitted both MOs"<<<<

Poirot...

Sure there is testimony, which can be cited in support of both popular motive theories.
But verbal testimony (from those defending themselves), and supportive physical evidence, are different matters.

Like I said...
I've yet to see convincing physical evidence... to support either theory, beyond doubt.

If anyone has seen convincing physical evidence to support either of these theories beyond doubt... they've either seen much more than I... or, they have a crystal ball.

When you're working with testimony, provided by those defending themselves... (and those associated with them)... you have to be critical in your thinking.
It's not like we're getting the story, directly from Gary's lips.
Also bear in mind:
We've been provided with TWO stories... both of which, have changed through the years.
What does that tell ya?

My personal GUESS... based on non-physical evidence... (and likely tainted) testimony... is that they (the family)... were there (at Gary's)... for money/inheritance only... OR,... it was in-fact drug-related... the result of Gary being a "small-time", in-experienced dealer.

But now... I'm GUESSING... which brings us back to square ONE!

My Point Poirot:

How ANYONE can look at the testimony we have (alone)... and defend EITHER of these motives with absolute certainty, is a complete mystery to me.
Until either of these motives can be proven with concrete evidence... this event remains steeped in mystery... and should be discussed as such.

No one KNOWS for sure, accept those who were there.
1) Gary is Dead.
2) The others have provided two versions... and both have changed over the years.

It's basic concept(s).

The only thing I believe with measured certainty, is this:
IF Gary WAS dealing drugs... (and that's a big "IF")... it was on a small-time, occasional level.
Gary wasn't a "Drug-Lord", by any means.
If he were... we'd have physical evidence.
More importantly, we'd have much more testimony supporting that fact... beyond just his tormentors and killer.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Jim.

Please...
Deal with this whole Spiritual Tramp issue elsewhere.
I don't need the headaches.

I sympathize with you, but it's none of my business.
Moreover...
I really don't know anything about it.
I RARELY read the comments section, on YouTube channels.
Estimating:
I probably read the comments section on any given YouTube channel... 4 times in a year.
I simply don't have the time, or the interest.

The only thing I can guarantee you Jim... is if you want to blog here... it won't be an issue.

My tolerance level for that situation (here), has dropped below zero.

MrPoirot said...

When interviewed by Truman Capote in the 1980s-15 yrs after the murder-Beausoleil restated that he killed Gary in a dispute over bad mescaline. Gary not only delt drugs he manufactured drugs. Why would Beausoleil make up a story claiming Gary could manufacture mescaline if it weren't true? Do you really think Bobby and Charlie made up the bad mescaline story in place of the inheritence money story? Do you really think Gary bought his house off money earned from music lessons? Human beings don't make up wild claims about someone manufacturing mescaline unless it is true.

katie8753 said...

Jimmy, thanks.

You have a nice Christmas too! :)

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Poirot... please...

I didn't say the drug motive was false.
I said... I'm personally undecided on motive, based on lack of physical evidence.

Poirot asked:
>>>>"Why would Beausoleil make up a story claiming Gary could manufacture mescaline if it weren't true?"<<<<

Simple Poirot:
Painting Gary as a drug dealer, diminishes Bobby's culpability.
Folks simply have less sympathy for drug dealers... than say... innocent old ladies.
It goes back to the... "Gary's a drug dealer, so he deserved it" mindset, which Jim so aptly shared earlier.

Furthermore, Bobby has since "played down" the drug motive.

TomG said...

That Susie Atkins wasn't just a skank with a moustache! Well said.

katie8753 said...

Mr. P,

I really don't care what Bobby or Manson said. They are liars. I don't believe that Gary Hinman was manufacturing drugs. Period.

There is no evidence from anyone, anywhere, at anytime, from anyone other than those 2 that he was. Which is hearsay.

Was his only customer Bobby? That's not much of a big time, Cadillac riding with fuzzy dice and curb feelers, big gold chains wearing drug dealer.

Maybe Gary smoked some weed from time to time. Big deal.

Manson made that story up. And Bobby stuck with it for a while.

This "bad drug deal" story is so easy to hatch. Gary was killed because of a bad drug deal. Tate, et al, were killed because of a bad drug deal. Rosemary was selling drugs.

It's all preposterous.

That interview with Capote (if it occurred) was all complete fantasy instigated by Bobby.

It's all so ridiculous.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

To Everyone:

If your comment is off-topic... please leave.

I put a lot of work into my threads... and, I'm not operating a 3-Ring Circus.

If you're not here to legitimately participate in the thread discussion... get lost.

That's the polite version.

beauders said...

gary hinman met manson and beausoleil at dennis wilson's--the connection between the three was music not drugs. i have heard hinman was gay--he was divorced but still friendly with his wife and since most of the women on these blogs find beausoleil to be good looking i would think a gay man would as well so maybe hinman thought he may have had a chance with beausoleil romantically.

dbryant said...

Katie

You asked why people think Gary
was Gay?

I think this is another rumour
that started in one of those
books. Because I have never
heard it come from Bobby,
Bruce or Susan. But I know
for a fact that Gary was not Gay.

I think its much easier to sell
a book if you have stuff about
the victims such as they were
Satan Worshipers, Drug Dealers
and Gays. It makes it much more
interesting. After all who wants
to read about the average
Hair dresser, Music teacher
or Student.

I think people read this stuff
first than repeat it on the
internet. Like I said before
I think alot of people believe
everything they read. That's why
I decided to do my own research.
I wanted to get to the truth about
this whole Gary situation.

Also Mr. P

I am not Don or the Colonel.
I'm sure he can confirm this.

Jiri said...

MrPoirot said...

Why would Beausoleil make up a story claiming Gary could manufacture mescaline if it weren't true? Do you really think Bobby and Charlie made up the bad mescaline story in place of the inheritence money story?


Beausoleil by admission changed his story no less than three times. It's in his own words on his website.

Yes, I believe he made-up the mescaline story.

MrPoirot said...

It isn't as simple as saying Bobby made the story up. You still have Charlie, Mary, Sadie saying the same thing over a long period during the trial, during many interrogations. Then after incarcerations these same people continued to confirm the story. You still have extensive information that Gary knew how to manufacture mescaline. That isn't the same as dealing mescaline. No one else in the Manson saga was ever said to have manufactured mescaline. Few hippies knew how to manufacture mescaline. The hippies that could do that occupied rarified air. That manufacturing claim by so many people is continually stated. This constitutes CORROBORATION. Go ahead and throw out all the other aspects of the murder tale but the mescaline manufacturing by Gary is abundantly substantuated to be true by many people. That is the one aspect that a serious examination will prove to be more than just a casual tall tale by Bobby. To claim that Bobby lied and Charlie lied and Mary lied and Sadie lied and bruce lied and they all told the same lie over decades is not a rational claim to make. Then to say all those people also told the same lie about Gary manufacturing mescaline several times prior to the mescaline batch Bobby murdered over is nothing but a lack of ability to assimilate facts that were corroborated ad nauseum. To deny that Gary never manufactured Drugs is blatant revisionism. Anyone who tries to walk that path has a revisionist agenda that has affected their better judgement.

but go ahead if you must. Go ahead and create your own parallel tale if it will fit your agenda.

St. Circumstance said...

I have never read anywhere or seen anything in my 20 years of studying this case that proves Gary made or sold mesc...

I have only ever even seen about 3 pictures of him actually...

very little is said or known about Gary in any of the movies/books/websites I have looked at to be honest....

Bobby has said himself that he walked out of the Capote interview when it became apparent Truman had his own agenda

and as was said- he changed his own story at least twice- so you can pick which of the three versions you want to believe...

none of them show any evidence of Mescaline....

katie8753 said...

dbryant, I think you hit the nail on the head.

Why say:

"oh he was just a really nice music teacher and I killed him"

when you can say:

"yeah, I killed him, but he was a big bad drug dealer and I did the world a big favor".

Makes you look less guilty.

katie8753 said...

>>>Mr. P said: To claim that Bobby lied and Charlie lied and Mary lied and Sadie lied and bruce lied and they all told the same lie over decades is not a rational claim to make.>>>

Why not? They're all liars.

To make the claim that anything they've ever said was nothing but the truth is not rational.

leary7 said...

Murder 101 makes it clear that unless you have 1)DNA/murder weapon or 2)eyewitness or 3)a confession then the lawyers are going to play volleyball with the facts and create doubt. The OJ and the Casey Anthony cases being classic examples.
At least with TLB and Hinman we know who did it. The only debate is motive and honestly, it simply cannot be determined "without a doubt" unless Charlie and Tex and Bobby are given copious amounts of truth serum and hooked up to polygraphs. And even then I am not sure I would buy the outcome since all three are pathological liars. So what we are left with is a parlor game...and as Lynyrd said so smartly, anyone who argues with "absolute certainty" most likely has their own agenda.
You can study TLB for decades and be no closer to "the truth" (motive wise that is) then when you started because the truth may just be as simple and unappealing as "angry assholes acting out" - no drug motive, no money motive, no race war motive - just brain damaged idiots lashing out.
Of course, accepting that renders the parlor game moot, so on we play.

St. Circumstance said...

at the end of the day the motive is never going to be known for sure absolutely...

I concur...

What Gary was like in his private life is the same quagmire in my opinion...

Speculation...

There is a very good chance that when it all comes into focus ( IF)

It may just be an older guy who took advantage of some younger doped out kids to get revenge on a bunch of more successful people- who flirted with him briefly- but rejected him when he tried to gain entrance to there world permanently...

That would be something very simple...


but when you take away the music, star power, drugs, sex, and other noise...

it would make some sense- and be something very explainable...

St. Circumstance said...

I will say this...

on his site bobby has been teasing a book for quite some time

he even has a few pages on there to read...

I do believe he has become the most reasonable with the passage of time, and I look forward to his book as it may provide some of the first real new information I have seen in some time...

He does seem to have become the most rational of them all over the years in my opinion...

He wont know anything about TLB- but some new stuff about the early times in the family- and the haight period- should be very intersting

CarolMR said...

I think it's the COL on his Official TLB Murders Blog who claims with absolute certainty that Gary was both gay and a drug dealer. I don't know what his proof is, though.

katie8753 said...

Hi Carol.

I've seen that stuff on the Col's site too. I don't know why he thinks that either.

katie8753 said...

Hi Jiri!

I agree with you completely!! :)

Lauren Webster said...

It has been reported that she passed away.

grimtraveller said...

CarolMR said...


"I think it's the COL on his Official TLB Murders Blog who claims with absolute certainty that Gary was [both] gay .... I don't know what his proof is, though."


In one of Virginia Graham's police interviews she mentions Gary being gay. That's possibly where it surfaced.
Also Susan Atkins alludes to this in one of her two books, implying that Charles Manson used it to lean on Bobby.
And Nuel Emmons in his book has Manson stating that he called Gary a cocksucker in one of his tirades about this supposed bad drug money and Gary saying he couldn't pay it back without seeing the product.

grimtraveller said...

I'd love to know what a bike gang is going to do with 1000 hits of mescaline !
A thousand hits !
If true, no wonder the bikers were ill !!

grimtraveller said...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

"Gary wasn't a 'Drug-Lord', by any means.
If he were... we'd have physical evidence.
More importantly, we'd have much more testimony supporting that fact... beyond just his tormentors and killer"


This point is the one upon which the wheel turns, for me. Vince Bugliosi stated in a 2009 TV programme that Gary Hinman used to "furnish the Family with drugs."
But so far in studying this case, I've not come across a single person outside of the Family that has said {other than VB} that Hinman dealt drugs and as far as I'm aware, not a single individual outside the Family has ever come forward and said they bought drugs from Gary Hinman. Now, I'm sure many will think that's naive, after all, who is going to come forward and tell the police they used to buy drugs....well, a number of people actually. When Gregg Jakobson testified in court about conversations he had with Charlie, he admitted sometimes he had taken drugs. Lotsapoppa Crowe admitted to drug use. People like Terry Melcher & Dennis Wilson were part of that world. But not once has anyone come forward independently and said they bought stuff from Gary Hinman.
Which is why it's a hard story to believe and seems made up out of thin air. And the thing is, if it's not true, Bobby & co would actually know that there's no way it can be contradicted. Anyone coming forward to say "Gary didn't deal drugs" only has to be met with a "were you aware of his every move every moment ?" That Charlie has stuck to the story for 45 years is neither here nor there. It could be true or it could simply be that he knows that it can never be disproved. If anyone of us died tomorrow and the word out was that we dealt drugs or abused kids, how could it be proven to the contrary ?
Exactly, it couldn't.

In the book "The Garbage People" from 1971, we are told that Gary had promised to finance a recording session for Charlie and somewhere along the line, Bobby figured he had money and decided to rob him of it which led to the events which led to his death. How true it is I can't say but during Bobby's first trial, Kitty Lutesinger recalls Bobby telling her that he was going to get some money from "a rich fag":

Q: Do you recall those words having been used?

A: Yes, it seems that those were the words used.

Q: These were the words used by the defendant Robert Beausoleil?

A: Yes.

Q: What did he say in that connection?

A: The best I can remember, it seemed that he said — he was going to go get some money from a rich faggot.

Q: After this conversation, did you see the defendant Bobby again later on?

A: Not for a couple of days.

Q: When you saw him a couple of days later, did you see him drive any car, any vehicle, at that time?

A: No.

Q: Did you at any time see a small white Fiat station wagon up there with a funny looking front?

A: Yes.

Q: When was that that you saw that? Was that before or after this conversation?

A: After.

Q: Where was that car when you saw it?

A: Well, I saw it at the ranch.

Q: Was anyone driving the car?

A: No, just when I went somewhere in it.

Q: With whom did you go in the car?

A: Another girl.

Q: Who was driving?

A: A girl named Mary.


Hmmmm.....