Sunday, November 6, 2011

Let’s Play "Leary’s Snapshot Moments"!

Leary said:
Nobody in their right mind, could, should or would defend or sympathize with the ultimate idiot (Tex), but I do confess that I have contemplated a particular moment from time to time from a storytellers perspective. It was that moment when Tex had walked across the desert headed towards Barker, after having come back from Hawaii. He was headed to rejoin Charlie and the family, when after walking for a long time he just stopped in his tracks, said he felt the darkness, and just turned around and walked the other way and called his parents back in Texas.

That is one of many "snapshot moments" I contemplate when thinking of the Manson saga. There are the obvious "snapshot moments" like Tex saying 'I am the devil" and Pat chasing Abigal out on the lawn.

But I am curious what alternative or offbeat "snapshot moments" you guys might have in your heads with regards to the whole TLB scenerio and aftermath. Charlie under the sink at Barker comes to mind.

Lynyrd’s Top Picks for "Snapshot Moments":

1) The now famous meeting of Manson and Squeaky in 1967, at Venice beach. 
How many times have we heard Squeaky recount their encounter, with a gleam in her eye?  That’s got to be one of the more famous “Family” moments.  A sobbing young girl… Manson’s rap… the whole niner.  Squeaky leaves her entire world behind in a split decision, and never looks back.

2) Manson and TJ confronting Bernard Crowe.  That must have been an interesting “scene” to say the least.  Money involved, drugs involved… a kidnapped “damsel in distress” involved… Crowe’s threatening call to the ranch.  Talk about an intense situation.  TJ flubs the plan, and Manson ultimately blasts the huge Bernard Crowe.  Crazy shit man!

3) The look on Manson’s face, the day the verdict and sentencing is read in court!
Gas chamber!  Fuck me man… I don’t care how cool Manson (likely) played-it-off.
Nobody, but NOBODY wants to hear “Guilty” followed by those two words!

Those are my top three choices for Leary’s “Snapshot Moments”.

C’mon folks… play along!  You KNOW you have some moments which stand-out in your mind, and I, like Leary, would love to hear them!  I agree with Leary.  It’s interesting which moments become important to different folks, and for what reasons…

Thanks Leary for an interesting & fun thread Idea! 

62 comments:

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Leary...

I added you to the "Thread Hall of Fame" list in the side-bar.

Thanks Again!
You ROCK!

Peace... Lynyrd

katie8753 said...

Well, for one thing, I'll never forget when, back in December of 1969, we learned who the murderers were and saw their pictures in the paper.

We were all shocked! We had been reading articles for months about satanic cults and drug use, and were stunned to find out that it was 4 young girls along with a goofy fuzzball from Texas, led by a strange little hippy cult leader named Charles Manson.

They called them "Zombie Hippy Killers". HA HA.

Kimchi said...

I remember more of 1970 - my sister and I driving down Sunset Blvd, and her telling me "lock the door and role up the window and don't stare at those girls, those are Charlie's girls"...it scared the crap out of me because I didn't know who "Charlie's Girls" were..but she was yelling at me...

katie8753 said...

Hi Kimchi.

I remember when the whole thing happened. I remember picking up the paper and reading about Sharon Tate and the others being sliced, shot and beaten to death. Everyone was holding their breath.

I remember when their pictures came out in the paper as the murderers. They scared the "bee-geebies" outta me. That was just totally out of left field.

katie8753 said...

Kimchi, I appreciate your comments, and any other folks who were in California in 1969 when this went down.

I was fully aware of what went down in August of 1969, but I was in Texas, and even though the current events were broadcasted at the time when it happened, we only got snippets after the murders about the investigation.

I would appreciate anyone telling first hand from someone who lived in California what the news was reporting, because I'm sure it was daily in California.

I wish I had kept those articles.

Sigh.

leary7 said...

wow, totally humbled and honored, Lynyrd. Thanks.
Yeah, I've always liked contemplating the odd moments, like Lee Harvey leaving the Book Depsitory and catching a bus.
There are dozens of them in the Manson saga - for some reason I always think of how far the maid who discovered the bodies had to walk to work. Didn't she have to catch something like two different buses and then walk five miles or such?
The odd character, the quirky moment...always my favorites.

leary7 said...

makes up for the De Ja Boo of the Patriots game today.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Leary!

I found your conversation with Circumstance regarding "faulty wiring" very interesting as well.

I really wanted to participate in that discussion, but unfortunately, personal commitments precluded me from doing so.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

MattP...
Where you at brother?!

...and Bob too.

...and Mary, Marliese, Lynn, LadyRam, Frank, Venus, Saint, Stella... et.al., for that matter.

It seems the blog world has been really slow at ALL the sites lately.

Five comments here... Eight comments there...

Heck, I can't even access Thelma and Louise, on their own site!
I've been chatting alone with Katie over there for two days. LOL

Aahh for the good ol' days, when folks stayed awake half the night feuding, to the tune of 250 comments each thread... LOLOL

Where's the passion gone? : )

Sigh...

MrPoirot said...

1 Bobby Beausoleil knocks on Gary Hinmans's door and enters with Mary and Sadie.

2 Charlie arrives home from Esalen Institute all refreshed and glowing with his new squeeze, Stephanie, only to have Sadie ruin his day by telling Charlie that Bobby has been arrested for murder. Sadie says she saw a movie where copycat murders were commuitted in order to free the real killers. For some reason Charlie listens to Sadie's idea.
Dum dee dum dum.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hello Poirot.

... or better yet, when Manson found-out he was being held for the TLB murders, because Susan squealed. LOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Manson "wheeling-and-dealing" with Dean Moorehouse... and making-off with his piano and lovely daughter Ruth must have been classic footage as well.

I would have loved being a fly on that wall.

That probably would have been my #4 "snapshot moment". Top ten anyway...

Actually... experiencing Manson's "Rap"/"wheeling & dealing" with Spahn, Wilson or anyone for that matter... would have been interesting.
I'd love to see Manson "operate".

Although... Manson met his match with Frank Retz.
The big German evidently wrestled a knife away from Manson, and told him to get f#ckin' lost! LOLOL

Every dog has his day I guess...

And, Manson got "burned-up" by a Hare-Krishna around 1984.
Another bad day...

sbuch113 said...

Linda's view of the killers as they returned to the car......."they looked like zombies, they were covered in blood".

Charlie greeting Dennis Wilson and kissing his feet the night they met.

The reflection in the mirror Tex saw of himself, when the killers stopped at the service station restroom to wash any remaining blood off.

lurch said...

1) Manson tossing guns off the Golden Gate Bridge

2) The killers faces Aug. 16 during the raid.....their faces when the charges were read....their faces when the charges were dropped and they were released

3) Charlie driving the bus to Barker Ranch, supposedly levitating it over the roughest parts

katie8753 said...

Hi Leary! Speaking of Lee Harvey, I watched a documentary not too long ago about that whole saga and it was leaning toward the railroading of LHO. But...that's another blog and a different railroading. LOL.

I think Mrs. Chapman did have to change buses at least twice to get to Cielo Drive. I'm not sure where she lived, but it was quite a trek for her to get there and get back home.

That particular morning she was upset because she was running late. Little did she know, nobody was gonna be mad at her for that.

katie8753 said...

Hi Mr. P., Lurch & Sbuch!

Very good snapshot moments! I'd forgotten about Tex looking in the mirror or Charlie "levitating" the bus.

Yeah that was a real downer for Charlie to come home with Stephanie to some REALLY bad news. He was mad enough to "kick the dog". LOL.

katie8753 said...

This isn't a snapshot moment, but I can't help thinking about the most basic of human emotions that, in my opinion, will never be wiped out, no matter who is running the cult.

And that is jealousy.

There's no way there wasn't some jealousy among the girls.

I can just hear the girls grumbling to themselves when Charlie shows up with Stephanie and seems to be "gaga" about her.

"Well, after all the dumpster diving, making vests, stealing credit cards, "putting out" to get new members, creepy crawling, knife dodging, drug-fueled orgies, cooking, cleaning and following Charlie without question, he replaces us with a 17 year old punk? We'll see about that!"

HA HA.

katie8753 said...

The funniest moment I can think of about Charlie is the time he supposedly ate the hot check that was evidence against him when someone's back was turned and they had to let him go. LOL.

leary7 said...

I got a new one.
I like contemplating Squeeky and Sandy when they went to Eau Claire Wisconsin to talk to Mary. I was in Eau Claire this summer and trying to imagine Red and Blue showing up.

leary7 said...

It is interesting, Lynyrd, to contemplate the ebbs and flows of the blog world. I remember bartending in college and trying to figure out which would be the busy nights. I never could, some nights would just catch fire.
I haven't been to T & L's site in awhile, couldn't access it. We sure did have a hootnanny or two over there. I hate to say this, but things do seem to have slowed down since we all decided to play nice. Still, I'll take quality over quanity anyday.

leary7 said...

I love snapshots. There is this occurance in early Mormon history where Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and a couple of their other bigshots spent a month together in Salem Massachusetts, the famous witch town. I think they might have been there studying Mason stuff, it is a big of a mystery. And they they met with Ralph Walso Emerson who concluded..."those are the biggest blockheads I have ever encountered".
Snapshot history, gotta love it.

MrPoirot said...

When ralph W Emerson was writing on that pond he wasn't as isolated as history has it. His mother brought him lunch every day. Emerson was a mama's boy.

katie8753 said...

>>>Mr. P. said: When ralph W Emerson was writing on that pond he wasn't as isolated as history has it. His mother brought him lunch every day. Emerson was a mama's boy.>>>

His mother brought him lunch everyday. HA HA HA HA HA!!!

TomG said...

Snap Shot Moment;

That now historic ford fairlane stopped at a red light (for symbolic purposes ) on that Saturday night in LA.

Inside, six of the major players; Manson, Kasabian, Watson, Krenwinkel, Van Houten, Grogan, waiting.

If we could just see their faces on that fateful night....what do people talk about and think about as they ride around, looking for people to kill?

katie8753 said...

>>>Leary said: And they they met with Ralph Walso Emerson who concluded..."those are the biggest blockheads I have ever encountered".>>>

Boy he got that right. LOL.

I'd like to have seen the looks on Ma & Pa Watson's faces when the sheriff came knocking looking for baby-killing Tex for those "Tate murders".

Lynn said...

This is an interesting concept/question. I am sure there are many Kodak moments....one that comes to mind for me (because I know more about him than most of the others) would be Dennis Wilson coming downstairs in his house to find a "creepy crawl" had taken place and all of his furniture rearranged.

leary7 said...

good one Lynn.
I like the guy who challenged Tex and the girls when they were using his hose to clean up after the killings.
I bet he counted his blessings everyday when he was made aware of his close encounter with the devil and his skanks.

leary7 said...

MrPoirot...have you ever read "Emerson Among the Eccentrics". great book

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

SBuch said:
>>>>"Charlie greeting Dennis Wilson and kissing his feet the night they met".<<<<

That's a great one SBuch!
Another "snapshot" in my "top ten".

I actually thought of that "scene", as I was writing the thread.
It must have been surreal... a "nobody" like Charlie on Wilson's doorstep... (and the outcome is even more surreal).
It seems the Beach Boys keep that "chapter" of their history kinda quiet. LOL

Peace... Lynyrd

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

((((((((((LURCH))))))))))

Lurch said:
>>>>"Manson tossing guns off the Golden Gate Bridge"<<<<

LOLOL
You ROCK Brother!

I will NEVER forget the night you contacted the blog, and told us you were doing a midnight "flashlight tour" of Spahn's on the anniversary (August 9th)!
That will go down in blog history, as the coolest blog moment ever!!

Love you Brother... stop-in more often!!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Katie said:
>>>>"The funniest moment I can think of about Charlie is the time he supposedly ate the hot check that was evidence against him when someone's back was turned and they had to let him go. LOL."<<<<

: )

Yeah... I read that in Sanders' book.
I kinda chuckled myself...

I guess eating a small sheet of paper, beats spending the night in jail. hahaha

beauders said...

in 1969 my family moved from from portland, oregon to the bay area. i remember going out to play, i was about six and seeing a newspaper stand and the front page photo was of manson (from the life magazine cover). it totally freaked me out wondering where we had moved to. little did i know.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Leary said:
>>>>"It is interesting, Lynyrd, to contemplate the ebbs and flows of the blog world. I remember bartending in college and trying to figure out which would be the busy nights. I never could, some nights would just catch fire".<<<<

Hey Leary!

I never was a bartender, but I spent considerable time on the other side of the bar. LOL

Anywho...

You're right... some nights the bar would get "hopping" (as I called it)... and other nights it was 'dead" (as I also called it).

But one thing was always consistent at my neighborhood bar...

The holiday season (Xmas through New Years and beyond) were always amazingly slow.
Folks were obviously visiting (partying) with family during the holidays season (big-time).
They were all "party-ed out".
Moreover... everyone was completely broke following Xmas.
Let's face it... no one is out spending money on booze during (or after) the holidays... except drunks.

If you go to a neighborhood bar between Xmas, and January 8th or so... you're definitely drinking alone... or with a few complete drunks! LOLOL

(I guess it doesn't say much about my "mis-spent youth" that I know all that)! LOLOL

Peace... Lynyrd

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Poirot said:
>>>>"When ralph W Emerson was writing on that pond he wasn't as isolated as history has it. His mother brought him lunch every day".<<<<

I never heard the "mom bringing him lunch" stuff... but, I must say:

I took a few "American Literature" courses in college, and my professor did say:
"Emerson visited the nearby village frequently (almost daily), and really wasn't as isoltaed as most believe".

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

((((((((((LYNN))))))))))

leary7 said...

Ah, the bar life...a whole thread unto itself Lynyrd.
Speaking of hopping nights, I have often wondered what will happen on these blogs when Charlie kicks the bucket - which for some reason I believe is imminent.

leary7 said...

my bar in Austin could rival the Lone Star Salon on Spahn for pure hedonistic decadance. Murders aside of course. I think.

leary7 said...

just one more Lynyrd about the bar life. I bartended at my bar in Austin for seven years and never got a paycheck - my tab was always bigger then my paycheck. Of course you could take cash draws as well as tab drinks and food. One year my tab was something like $2,800 and I got a fellowhship check for five grand from the University and just signed it over to the bar. A month later I got called in by the dean for an inquiry as to why research checks were being signed over to the Hole.
A lifetime ago.

katie8753 said...

Leary I forgot all about that guy with the water hose. I'll bet he was cleaning his britches out when he found out who he was dealing with. HA HA.

You know, I know it was dark outside, but Tex & Pat must have been covered in blood. I don't remember if that guy noticed that or not.

katie8753 said...

Hi Lynn. Good to see you!

katie8753 said...

Hi Beauders. That picture of Charlie was very scary. In fact, all of their pictures scared me the first time I saw them!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Leary said:
>>>>"Speaking of hopping nights, I have often wondered what will happen on these blogs when Charlie kicks the bucket - which for some reason I believe is imminent".<<<<

Ironically, and somewhat eerily... I've had the same EXACT two thoughts many times recently.

I really believe...
1) Charlie is gonna pass within the next five years, or so.

I wonder...
2) If interest in this case will increase... or if it will go the other way... and completely "dry-up".
Like I said... same two thoughts exactly.

I suppose it's possible, that (for the die-hard freaks in the blog world), things may proceed somewhat unchanged after the smoke clears...

One thing's for certain:
Everyone's chances for parole will increase exponentially, with each passing year following Manson's death.
Once the "boogey man" is dead and buried... and the others are (over time), somewhat dis-associated with the "Manson Legacy"... their chances will increase.
I've always said:
"The sooner Manson dies... the better Leslie's chances become".
That notion can be applied to all of them, across the board.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Leary said:
>>>>"One year my tab was something like $2,800 and I got a fellowhship check for five grand from the University and just signed it over to the bar. A month later I got called in by the dean for an inquiry as to why research checks were being signed over to the Hole".<<<<

Leary... you should have looked the Dean right in the eye... shrugged, and said:
"What can I tell ya Sir, I'm Boston-Irish".
AHahahaha

Now, that would have ROCKED! LOL

MrPoirot said...

Another snapshot moment was when the Death Valley park ranger spotted a black billowy plume of smoke miles off in the distance(the burning road grader). This brought down the house of Manson.

I wonder how much longer they could have held out in the mountains had they not burned the tractor?

katie8753 said...

>>>Mr. P. said: I wonder how much longer they could have held out in the mountains had they not burned the tractor?>>>

I think they were getting tired of the whole trip anyway because they were running out of drugs. LOL.

MrPoirot said...

They had stayed up in Death Valley until early February the the previous winter. the 2nd stay only lasted till November until they were busted. They were better supplied on the 2nd trip. They could have lasted longer than February were they not discovered for arson and car theft.

MrPoirot said...

A good "what if" would be if Charlie escaped capture in the DV raid. If everyone had gotten busted EXCEPT Charlie then he would have held out a long time eating rattlesnake and crickets. Would the police have gone after him? Without Charlie the whole helter skelter saga doesn't exist. Charlie could have become a lone hermit in Death Valley living under the radar for years after the rest of the killers were convicted. Only Geraldo could ever have found him.

Venus said...

The only snapshot moment that I can think of is that day in March of 1969 when Manson showed up at the Cielo Drive house and was seen by Sharon who definitely noticed him.

katie8753 said...

Hi Venus!

Good snapshot moment.

How about when Garretson says the cops rushed him, knocked him down, and accused him of murder.

Or when Mrs. Chapman came to the property, snapped off the garage light, went in the back door, put down her purse, picked up the phone and found it dead, walked thru the dining room and looked out the door and saw Voytek's body, ripped, beaten and shot.

Bodies...blood...death!

Talk about a wake up call at work.

katie8753 said...

Mr. P., a great "what if".

If that patrolman hadn't seen Charlie's hair sticking out of the cabinet, he could very well have gone un-noticed.

Would he have tried to rescue his "children"? No f*cking way.

I think he would have hid out in the desert for a while, then moved to a new place to start a new "family".

Maybe Guyana?????

katie8753 said...

Charlie didn't give a crap about his "family". Not then...not now.

That's why they're all so stupid.

He sold a bill of goods to unsuspecting, gullible kids that bought it all...hook, line and sinker.

He sold them all down the river..for what? For nothing, except that he was pissed and he got satisfaction. Until he got pronounced guilty and given the death sentence. Then it wasn't so funny anymore.

Then he started caterwauling that "he never sent anyone to do anything that they didn't want to".

Yeah right, buddy boy. Save it for your current minions. Talk to the hand....because the brain ain't listening. HA HA.

katie8753 said...

I will say that I have empathy for these kids that fell under his spell.

Most were lost kids looking for some kind of leadership that they had been denied. So, no matter what resulted from that union, I feel that they are not totally responsible. Not excusing their actions mind you, but there is other blame to be laid.

But in that same conjecture, I do feel that after the murders, and after Charlie was arrested and exposed, those who kept on with murder and death threats should be held responsible on their own. They should have known the truth.

I don't need to name names. You all know who I'm talking about.

beauders said...

i've often wondered what will happen after manson dies, and i think there will manson mania in the press for about two weeks. all the books, dvd's, and art will skyrocket in value, then after two weeks the u.s. public will get bored with the story and move onto something else to be obsessed with for two weeks. as an example do you guys realize that nuclear reactor in japan is still burning? it's not on the news any longer but that reactor is still burning.

katie8753 said...

Beauders, I agree with you. I think that after Charlie is gone, the interest will fade. To what extent I don't know. People are still interested in all kinds of killers that are no longer living.

That reactor still burning is much scarier than Charlie.

leary7 said...

wow, that is an excellant point I have never thought about Lynyrd - the one about everyones parole chances increasing once Charlie has departed.
Not that is a fantasy snapshot moment - Leslie and Pat sticking needles in their Charlie voodoo dolls.
By the way, I think Charlie is gone within the year.

leary7 said...

Katie, Charlie was and is a total nihilist - he believes in nothing despite all his bullshit rap about the trees and water and such. That is part of what makes TLB so fascinating, i.e., that a complete nihilist could con people into believing in such absurdity and ignorance. The blog item that Cappy is still pissed she wasn't chosen to go out that night and that she still believes TLB was totally justified is an example of the degree of idiocy in those people.
Maybe a nihilist has a higher inate ability to spot idiots.

katie8753 said...

You hit the nail on the head Leary. Charlie was good at talking people into things, even though they were ideals or actions that he would never pursue himself.

As to Cappy still being pissed that she wasn't chosen...I have a hard time believing that statement is true.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

The following post has been stuck in the "Spam Folder" since Nov. 7th:

Tom Writes:

"Snap Shot Moment; That now historic ford fairlane stopped at a red light (for symbolic purposes ) on that Saturday night in LA. Inside, six of the major players; Manson, Kasabian, Watson, Krenwinkel, Van Houten, Grogan, waiting. If we could just see their faces on that fateful night....what do people talk about and think about as they ride around, looking for people to kill?"


Sorry Tom... I just came across your post.
One of those "blog glitches"...

If anyone doesn't see their comment post immediately, let me know, and I'll retrieve it.

katie8753 said...

Tom, Lynyrd found your thread from November 7 in the spam folder and posted it for you.

Sorry about that. Don't know what happened. :)

katie8753 said...

Not thread...comment. sorry!

TomG said...

I misspelled the first word verification on that comment. Maybe that had something to do with it.

Janson2112 said...

my snapshot:Garretson looking out the window and seeing 2 girls running, and thinking they were playing around, he has the snapshot picture of Abigal being murdered and didnt know it, i don't know if I could ever forget that if it was me, and you beleive Garretson's story