Tuesday, June 14, 2011

Speaking of Sargent Dostie, and Buster... Kimchi has met both of them!

Kimchi Writes:

Right place, right time? 

I had just finished reading the latest news on Mark Turner's site, about the cadaver dog "Buster".  Luck would have it, that sunday (february 2008), my husband and I, decided to check out Death Valley and Barker Ranch.

When we arrived, there was one vehicle there.  We got out of our 4x4, and a friendly black lab greeted us with barks and licks.  I looked up, and noticed someone filming a man, on the porch of the ranch...I said "hmm, he looks familiar".

Just then, a man came over to us, and said: "They will be done in a little bit"....so we made idle chat with the man and the dog... (breaks ice you know)...

So... I said:  "This is the Manson Place".  

He said: "Yeah, we're filming a segment about it, and the cadaver dog" .

I said:  "Oh, I just read about 'Buster'....he pointed to the black lab we were hugging and petting... and I said "That's Buster?"  

He said: "Yup"!

Needless to say, we got "the" tour of Barker Ranch, from Sgt. Paul Dostie and Patrick Healey from Channel 4 News (LA)...lots of photos (that I'm not sharing...haha), but I am sharing Buster's Law Enforcement Card that Sgt. Dostie gave me that day...

We all know what happened 3 months later....

More to come later on the "Spahn Dig"....did you know about that???
Sargeant Dostie, Buster, and Mr. Kimchi
Front of Buster's "Baseball Card"
Back of Buster's "Baseball Card"

Thanks Kimchi!!  You're the Best!! 
We're not worthy... we're not worthy! LOL
(Sorry... A little "Wayne's World") 

64 comments:

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thanks Again Kimchi!
Great Thread... Much Appreciated!

MrPoirot said...

Lol! Buster the wonderdog! Just add milkbones. He'll do the rest.

MrPoirot said...

But the question begs to be asked: what is Buster reading to Sgt Dostie?

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

He's a beautiful dog.

Poirot... is that the famous "LIFE" magazine with Manson's photo on the front?!!
LOLOL

Heck... I think it is!

MrPoirot said...

And Buster says, "but I've read this story 40 times and I've told you 40 times I can't smell any buried bodies up here!". "Give me a milkbone and by the way you know I prefer working in the snow!".

katie8753 said...

Buster is soooooooooooooo sweet!!

Hey Kimchi, did you happen to see Debra Tate out there???

katie8753 said...

Sgt Dostie is pointing to a picture of Charlie in that magazine.

"Buster.....sic 'em!"

HA HA.

Marliese said...

Noticed the remark about a Spahn Ranch dig...
I've always believed the only digs around Spahn Ranch, other than for Shorty's remains, have been from self-serving vultures and souvenir thieves. I don't think there is any truth to be found there, other than the realization that Charlie and his friends didn't give a damn about the environment when they littered that remarkable landscape with such a sick legacy.

bobby said...

Marliese said:Charlie and his friends didn't give a damn about the environment when they littered that remarkable landscape with such a sick legacy.

& dunbuggies,gasoline stashes,burning heavey machinary etc. They would have more credability if they would admit that the ATWA thing was an epiphany.

katie8753 said...

Hi Marliese. Hi Bobby.

I don't know anything about a dig at Spahn's Ranch. Don't know if this has already been done or is planned????

I agree with you guys. They littered that place up big time. It's very clear that they didn't give a shit about the environment then. Blood stains everywhere. LOL.

I wonder what happened to Tex & Horseteeth's clothes after the LaBianca murders. Tex took a shower and changed. Horseteeth stole Rosemary's clothes. She claims she gave her jeans to Tex but we all know that's BS.

bobby said...

Hi Katie, I think they tossed them out the car window. Of course Tex & Leslie didnt become enviromentalist either.

katie8753 said...

Hi Bobby. I don't think they could have thrown them out of the window, cuz they hitched a ride with some jake-leg that knew about Spahn's Ranch and was hot after Van Skankston.

Or...maybe he was so busy looking at Leslie he didn't notice. HA HA.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

What can I say... it's a pro-Manson crowd. : )

Marliese said...

Hi Bobby and Katie, agree Bobby, dune buggies, gasoline, machinery etc and I guess their concern for trees didn't include the trees around Spahn that Charlie used for target practice.
Katie, tex says he stashed the bloody clothes under some stuff in someone's trash bin on the street when they were wandering around after the Labianca murders.

bobby said...

Thanks Marliese, I forgot that they where the first "carpoolers" ever mindfull of saving resources even when returning home from a murder.

katie8753 said...

>>>Marliese said: Katie, tex says he stashed the bloody clothes under some stuff in someone's trash bin on the street when they were wandering around after the Labianca murders.>>>

Okay thanks Marliese. I couldn't remember what they did with them. I remember Horsey burning Rosemary's clothes back at Spahn's and I'm assuming that Tex changed into Leno's clothes after the murders and he dirtied their nice bathroom with his stench.

I guess Pat just wore the same clothes. Haven't read where she rifled thru Rosemary's nice clothing and helped herself.

katie8753 said...

>>>Bobby said: Thanks Marliese, I forgot that they where the first "carpoolers" ever mindfull of saving resources even when returning home from a murder.>>>

Yes, weren't they thoughtful!!!

That's like remembering to put your "pinky" up when sipping blood from a goblet. HAHA.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Aren't you folks being just a bit harsh on "the family"?
I mean, after all... everything they did... they did for love of brother.
They were "soldiers".
This was "war".
They were brave, loyal, self-less people, willing to face the gas chamber, for a noble cause.

Ingrates...

: )

(OK... I'll stop. No one ever gets my humor)

katie8753 said...

Lynyrd, I think it's called sarcasm. HA HA.

Okay I posted this comment a few threads back and don't think I got a good answer. I'm posting again because it's the same subject:

I don't know why it's so hard to conceive of bodies being buried at Barker's Ranch, Spahn's Ranch or anywhere else on this planet.

We know that the family killed and buried Shorty Shea because Charlie thought he was "squealing on them".

We know that family members made James Willet dig his own grave then shoot him because they thought he was going to squeal, then shot Lauren and buried her in the basement to shut her up.

Are we so naive to assume that no one else got offed by these people and buried somewhere???

Mr. P: I don't know how you can compare Barker's Ranch to Mayberry, USA. Totally different arena.

I've never been to Barker's, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like that place is in the middle of nowhere. How could anyone possibly be aware of a killing out there, when the neighbors at Cielo Drive didn't really hear anything, and they're much closer???

katie8753 said...

Well no one had an answer. Just like I thought.

I guess I'm right. :)

Have a nice day.

Marliese said...

Katie, i'll respond! I just have to catch up on posts. Can we go back to the Willets? I've always been bothered with the light sentences their murderers received. The girls were allowed to plead to accessory after the fact, I don't know if they even went to prison, did they? One of the men pleaded to second degree murder and got five to life or some other ridiculous sentence. Where was the justice for the murder of two people? Didn't they have a child? Never much said about the Willets.

I don't agree that Death Valley is like Mayberry, maybe Mr. Poirot means a couple of miners sitting on a front porch somewhere that think they know everything that passes their way, but I disagree. The vastness of Death Valley is indescribable, it is one of the most humbling and remarkable landscapes in the world, in no way does any circumstance or surrounding within Death Valley remind me of smalltown, u.s.a., not even in a broad comparison of two guys sitting at a broken down general store at the mouth of a wash to a small town main street front porch. Have never known of any evidence that the Manson family killed anywhere there, but certainly they were capable, like you say, Shorty, the willets, the tate Labianca victims. Gary Hinman. Descriptions of the family there usually mention paranoid naked people with knives. Certainly they could have, but how would we ever know. They're not going to snitch on themselves. :)

katie8753 said...

Hi Marliese!

Yes the sentencing for the killers of the Willets was so lame. I'm wondering if they plea bargained. I'd have to read up on that. That might explain a light sentence, just to get them off the streets and save money on a trial.

I think Nancy went to prison for a year or so, but that's nothing for taking lives.

Thanks for the description of Death Valley. I didn't understand how Mr. P. or anyone else would think that if any murders took place there, then everyone would know about it.

I don't have any proof of murder of course, it's my opinion, but given the fact that we do know the family can murder and we know they did murder, the chances of them murdering others and just not getting caught are pretty good.

Death Valley is the perfect graveyard. Even if they did find a body, they'd have a hard time proving that any of the family members did it anyway. And if someone was looking for bodies...where to start??? Like you said, it's vast and you could bury a body virtually anywhere.

katie8753 said...

And you're right...they're not about to admit to any knowledge of more murder. Wouldn't help their cases a bit!! LOL.

katie8753 said...

Off subject a bit, in The State of Florida versus Casey Anthony, the prosecution has rested.

The defense asked the judge for an acquittal. He said "hell no". HA HA.

The defense plans to cast blame and doubt on lots of folks, kinda like a shotgun blast. Legal "analysts" have predicted that Casey will most likely have to take the stand to prove all this up.

Stay tuned!! :)

MrPoirot said...

Everybody loves to think there are Manson victims buried away in Death Valley.

It reminds me of myself. Everytime I go to the beaches here in South Carolina i always dig in the sand thinking I'll stumble upon Blackbeard's many buried treasure chests.

Marliese said...

Everybody?

We know these people that were associated with each other are responsible for the murders of eleven people. Correct me if I'm wrong. Tate Labianca, Gary, Shorty, the Willets, and these people bragged...I think Sandra was the one that said there were something like 35 victims, there is video of certain individuals talking about caressing and making love to weapons, people 'that were there' have talked about drills on how to stab to kill, how you have to stick it in and twist it deep to cause injury to internal organs, one of the girls (was it Kitty? can't remember) said Charlie was completely "feral" in the desert, these people were digging for a bottomless hole in which to escape while the rest of the world slaughtered each other, like that's rational. Digging in the middle of the night, half naked and strapped with knives...so you know, given all that and much more that we do know, it's not such a stretch to believe in the possibility that there could be other victims. I think Shorty was the only murder at Spahn, and the only way we'll ever know about Death Valley or anywhere else is if the killers decide to snitch, and that won't ever happen. These are people that thought it was perfectly okay to kill a friend they figured was going to snitch and bury her in the cellar of a house and continue living upstairs like it was all in a day's work. So who is to say?

katie8753 said...

Okay Mr. P.

So you think these people, Charlie's "family", after they butchered and stabbed a good friend for no reason at all, other than he wouldn't give them money he didn't even have, a friend who had always been there for them thru thick & thin, and stole his vehicles, and...

stabbed an 8-1/2 month pregnant woman to death, ignoring her pleas for her life and that of her baby, crying to her mother to save her (look bitch, I have no mercy for you...you're gonna die, and you'd better get ready), not to mention 4others that night, and...

viciously mutilating 2 middle aged folks they didn't even KNOW...stabbing a defenseless man with his hands tied behind his back, carving WAR in this abdomen,leaving a knife in his throat and sticking a carving fork all the way in up to the tines, watching it wobble and laughing, butchering his wife, then laughingly grabbing clothes from the closet as the blood seeped all over the carpet, and....

Ambushing and killing a fellow worker because Charlie thought he was a snitch and he was married to a black woman, and....

making a young father dig his own grave and shoot him dead in it, and shooting his wife in the eye and burying her alive in the basement, all because they might be "snitches".

You think, for some unknown reason, that these maniacs never killed anyone else????

They just never got caught doing it.

Come on now!! Stop being pig-headed and put your thinking cap on!!!

katie8753 said...

I will say this...and I don't think I've said it before.

Doris Tate stopped living after Sharon was killed. For years.

I can understand that. Her daughter was crying out to her to help her. And she couldn't.

Adam Walsh's father gave an interview a few years ago, and said that every single day, he thought about his son crying out to him for help, and that help never came.

He said he will never stop hearing his son's voice crying for help.

He used that pain to start the Adam Walsh Center, just as Doris used that pain to form Parents of Murdered Children, and to stop the monsters from getting out of prison.

My hat is off to Mrs. Doris Tate, and other parents of murdered children, no matter how old their children are!!

katie8753 said...

And I'll say one more thing...the victims aren't the only ones who were killed...their families were killed those nights too.

And if Charles Manson had a shred of decency in him, he would have at least shared a "why" they died with the family members who were just trying to make sense of all this killing.

But he never has. And he never will.

So much for "Mr. Superhero".

MrPoirot said...

One day I'll find one of the many buried Blackbeard treasure chests and you will all see! I'm never giving up no matter how much I'm teased about carrying a shovel on the beach. Ha!

Kimchi said...

Marliese said:

"Noticed the remark about a Spahn Ranch dig...
I've always believed the only digs around Spahn Ranch, other than for Shorty's remains, have been from self-serving vultures and souvenir thieves."

Did you see "Manson's Missing Victims"? It was produced in late 2008 and shown many times by the Investigative Discovery Channel..and is still shown occasionally..

You know, this is the reason I don't like to blog. If I have to "prove" and "defend" everything I've seen or tidbits I've learned,
I just won't share anymore.

And yes, I have personal photos I took before and after the dig at Spahn AND Barker...and personal photos of other things..

I chose this site to share my things, I like Lynyrd.... and I don't want to put him in a position to have to constantly defend or explain to the doubters or skeptics of something "I" personnaly know about...and I just don't have the time to...

Sorry Lynyrd...it's just the nature of the beast I guess...

katie8753 said...

>>>Mr. P said: One day I'll find one of the many buried Blackbeard treasure chests and you will all see! I'm never giving up no matter how much I'm teased about carrying a shovel on the beach. Ha!>>>

You do that bucko!!! HA HA HA.

Why don't you join a Blackbeard blog???? Maybe you can clear something up over here. I doubt it!!! LOL.

HA HA.

katie8753 said...

>>Kimchi said: Did you see "Manson's Missing Victims"? It was produced in late 2008 and shown many times by the Investigative Discovery Channel..and is still shown occasionally..

you know, this is the reason I don't like to blog. If I have to "prove" and "defend" everything I've seen or tidbits I've learned,
I just won't share anymore.>>>

Kimchi don't get disenheartened.

We're just wondering about the Spahn dig???? Did they find anything???

Comments???

Lynyrd did the Bruins win???? I hope, I hope, I hope....

..I guess not.

katie8753 said...

Kimchi, sometimes I get so tired of this crap.

I keep trying to prove my theory and so many others try to prove me wrong.

It's the name of the game.

You just have to keep on keeping on. If you get tired, then stop.

I know that I've been doing this for 40+ years. Not on blog, but in different avenues.

I know that you're tarred. I'm tarred too.

But I keep on.

Why?

I don't know directly, but just to make sure that someone, somehow finds the truth.

Peace out....

katie8753 said...

The Bruins won the Stanley Cup. YEAHHHH.

I think??

OKay I'm going to bed. Tired.

It's 150 degrees in the shade here. Shit.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I’ll take it from here Kimchi.

I have no beef with Marliese… but, I would like to respectfully address a similar situation with Pristash.


Pristash said, regarding the previous thread>>>>
“What the hell is this?”<<<<


Pristash… I’ve known you for a long time, and we’ve always operated with mutual respect. Based on that, I’m gonna address you as politely as I can, while still being frank.

I invest a lot of time and effort into this blog, on a completely volunteer basis.
I do research… I share photos, legal documents, and video.
I type summaries, book reports, post breaking news, etc.
It’s all very time-consuming.
I also cash-in a LOT of favors from friends, to give my readers something special when I can.

BUT… I have a job, a family, and other MUCH more pressing responsibilities than this blog… just like everyone else.
This is a hobby.
Based on my other responsibilties… my time for this blog varies, week to week.
So yes… some threads will be much better quality than others.
Some are great… others are just “fillers”.
That’s a fact.

If you see a thread that doesn’t interest you… or isn‘t up to your most discerning standards… ignore it.
If you see several threads that don’t interest you… you’re under no obligation to visit… and pay nothing for the privilege.

What always amazes me Pristash… is the folks who offer and share nothing… are always the biggest critics.
It never fails.
The following folks have contributed an idea/material, for a thread (in most cases several threads)… Mary, Katie, Kimchi, Bob, Lynn, MattProkes, Lurch, and Beauders.
Pristash… you come here every weekday, at lunch-time, correct everyone, complain, and exit.
But yet… you contribute the least.
Heck dude… when my blog was private… you wouldn’t even share an e-mail address!

The side-bar states, that any/all thread ideas are welcome.
If my thread merits “what the hell is this?”… why don’t you write a thread?
Why don’t you show us how it’s done, and share a photo, book review, discussion topic, collectable or video?
Get in the game brother.

With all due respect Pristash… you’ve become the guy who shows-up at the party empty-handed… and then complains the host didn‘t buy your favorite beer.
You gotta lighten-up a little dude.
It’s just a hobby… not a trial.

The Colonel, Cats, Liz, Thelma, Myself… we all invest a lot of time and effort for zero pay. Pristash… bear in mind, this case is 40+ freakin’ years old.
There’s no breaking news for months on end.
Heck… even the parole hearings are getting sparse.
Sometimes you gotta dig deep, to find an interesting thread.
I’m not on the best terms with Liz and company… but heck… I can at least respect the fact that Matt, Patty, and Ken contribute their time, and what they have generously.

Lighten-up brother… and be just a tad appreciative.
Like I said… it’s just a hobby.
When it stops being fun... it's gone too far.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Pristash said>>>>
“Ok, Lynyrd, you know the rules: statements without any facts substantiating them are subject to dismissal. Glad you believe Kimchi, but without any further type of collaboration as to why she would know Alice had the book, etc...then we are free to chalk it up as another urban legend.”


If I have information I deem valuable... derived from 2-3 very reliable sources, I will share that information with my readers.
If you want to chalk my words up to urban legend, I have no problem with that at all.
Unfortunately, there are times, when providing proof for you, would require me to betray the trust of someone else, or jeopardize someone else… so, it’s not worth it, or possible.
This is one of those times.

I did attain further collaberation for myself... very convincing collaberation.
Unfortunately, I can't share that collaberation on a public blog.
I’ve shared the information.
If you care to dismiss it, or disprove it… again, that’s completely your prerogative.

I don't feel I've harmed anyone by sharing the information, that I'm personally convinced is true.

Marliese said...

Kimchi, you said..."more to come on the spahn ranch dig, did you know about that???" I replied that the only digs i know of at Spahn Ranch are the self serving vultures and thieves that have stolen from there. It was a response to your question, not directed at you personally.

Actually, that's been going on there for decades. Would like to know more about a dig that was permitted, and would be interested in knowing why they dug, what they were after and if they found anything, or if it was self serving exploitation...like Catherine Share's interviews. I'll look for the cable show.

Just speaking for myself, it's impossible to go to Spahn Ranch and not imagine Charlie's do something witchy, or a 59 yellow and white Ford with the blood of the victims rolling through there in the dark, but from the time that Shorty's remains were finally found, i've hoped that land could find healing peace, instead of the legacy forced on it by filthy murderers.

There's been vandalism there for decades. People have defaced the rocks with graffiti, scrounged around the land and creek, and sold what they've stolen. I just feel it's inherently wrong. Same with the LaBianca lanterns. An opinion.

For years the front ranch on the road was private property and posted, still people trespassed, taking any little thing they found. The private property signs are gone from the front now and i guess that area was donated to the park lands, whatever, point was haven't heard about any digs, especially not publicized digs like the Barker dig for bodies...other than people that scrounge like vultures, taking dirt, stones, tree bark, splitting rocks and selling off pieces. And i think the graffiti is disgusting.

Another example, the Cielo pig door...i don't know if it was taken or given to whats his name, Trent Reznor, when the house was being torn down. But why would he want it, if not for the infamy? It's now on Magazine St. in New Orleans. And for what?
A guy that posted in kts took and sold pieces of the Cielo fireplace bricks, like these pieces of brick witnessed slaughter. I remember thinking it was pretty crass. Would rather have seen those bricks recycled into something surrounded in life again, not sold as murder souvenirs.

Marliese said...

I'd hate to think i'd caused you to have a beef with me, Lynyrd, and sincerely appreciate that you said you don't.

MrPoirot said...

katie8753 said...
Kimchi, sometimes I get so tired of this crap.

I keep trying to prove my theory and so many others try to prove me wrong.


Mr Poirot replies:

The buried bodies rumors don't fit the Family MO and habits. The Family acted all as a single being with one brain. The Family was Charlie and everyone in the Family was Charlie also. None of the killings were lone assassin types. The Family killed in teams. They blabbed about any killing they did. They blabbed so much that it was laughable. News of each killing was dissiminated like party platform ideology or like gossip spread through Mayberry or fire spreads through drought infested brush. Yes Barkers was just a small town atmosphere just like Spahns and Mayberry. Everybody knew everything. It doesn't matter if Death Valley was a trillion sq miles. If the Family had killed a single person in DV then it would have been committed by a team of killers and then they'd blab about it.

Thus had anyone been murdered in Death Valley they would have died at the hands of multiple attackers who blabbed of their deeds not a lone assassin who acted on his own plan and then kept his mouth shut. There were no individuals in the Family. The Family was 25 people who acted as one.

Therefore had anyone died in Death Valley they would have died at the hands of multiple killers and it would have become known to all immediately.

The rumors that Sgt Dostie persued were derived from lone individual rumor mainly from Vern Plumlee, Susan Atkins and Larry Melton. There are another 20 Family members who did not talk of these buried victims stated by those three. If there were gravesites EVERYBODY who was in Death Valley as a Family associate would have also spread these rumors but that didnt happen. Thus the MO doesn't fit the Family. The Family could not have murdered anyone/buried them in a remote Death Valley grave and kept the grave and victim a secret. It takes a single assassin to keep a killing quiet. The gravesites in Death Valley are just the stuff of legend propigated by offhand remarks by a few words an outsider claimed came from within the Family. If anyone were buried all 25 Family members at Death Valley the fall/winter of 69-70 would blab about it yet they don't. All Family related murders were team killings. Secret gravesites are the work of an independent mind. There were no independent minds in the Family. Thus they are called THE FAMILY.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Marliese...

I'll let Kimchi speak for herself... but, I'm quite sure she's referring to a legitimate dig/search conducted by authorities... not scavengers, vandals, and souvenir-seekers.

starship said...

Hey, Lynyrd,

My comment was just my expression of dumbfoundedness at the Kara Machado story. Just seemed to me like that chick is nuttier than Charlie even.

Please know I am very appreicative of your efforts at blogging...I'm sure it takes up a lot of time as it takes me enough time just to show up most days and shoot my mouth off.


But, unless objective evidence can be brought forth for ALL of us to consider, then skepticism towards people who claim they "know" something shall continue, as it rightly should. No, I do not want anyone's confidences to be broken, despite my own insatiable curiosity. I wouldn't want my own confidences to be broken either. That said, it just doesn't cut it to say so and so told me it's so...and I know and like him so that's the way it is. Much as I would like to believe some of this stuff, without independent collaboration it is just too far of a leap for me to take.

katie8753 said...

Mr. P., you speak of the family as if they are the "Borg", the "Collective". None exists without the other. HA HA.

Nobody blabbed or bragged about killing the Willets. They just got caught because they were stupid.

Bobby was arrested for killing Gary...not because of anyone blabbing, but because he stupidly drove Gary's stolen vehicle and fell asleep.

A lot of the blabbing you speak of occurred after the arrests and people were trying their best to stay out of the slammer at the time.

And no one is blabbing now, because like I said...they either want out of prison, or if they're not in prison, they want to be left alone and forget about their greivous past.

MrPoirot said...

Two men killed Willet and his wife. Brenda. Squeaky and one other girl knew immediately of the murders prior to police involvement.

Bruce, Charlie, Sadie, Mary and many others knew immediately that Hinman had been murdered. Bobby was arrested several days after the killing.

The Family are basically Borgs, yea, good analogy Katie. Robert Hendrickson trys to demonstrate this in Manson73 by letting them all preach to demonstrate they all talk and think like Charlie.

They did kill and bury people like you say but strangely they never killed or buried anyone in Death Valley. They murdered virtually everywhere except in the Valley of Death.

katie8753 said...

>>>Mr. P said: Two men killed Willet and his wife. Brenda. Squeaky and one other girl knew immediately of the murders prior to police involvement.

Bruce, Charlie, Sadie, Mary and many others knew immediately that Hinman had been murdered. Bobby was arrested several days after the killing.>>>

I never said other people didn't KNOW about killings at Death Valley...I said they didn't BLAB about it. You just agreed with my statement.

Thanks! :)

Marliese said...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...
Hi Marliese...

I'll let Kimchi speak for herself... but, I'm quite sure she's referring to a legitimate dig/search conducted by authorities... not scavengers, vandals, and souvenir-seekers.


Yes, and again i'd be interested in knowing the why, what, where and if anything was found. :)

MrPoirot said...

Katie dear, I'm not trying to debate semantics.

I'm saying that not a single human being ever died at the hands of the Family anywhere in Death Valley. Not a single person is listed as missing in Death Valley who was connected to the Family. Not a single Family member claims anyone was killed there.
There are no people unaccounted for yet they searched and searched with every known method of detection available to mankind and nothing has ever been unearthed in the 42 years since. However the sheriff of Inyo says he will investigate any accusations of graves from that era so if you know of anyone missing up there you need to tell him.

Marliese said...

Not speaking for Pristash, and not referring to anything in particular here, just generally speaking, I've read Pristash's comments and opinions for years, he's pragmatic, doesn't whine, doesn't schmooze, and always...always, apologizes if he's wrong. I appreciate his clarity, his encyclopedic knowledge of Tate Labianca, his ability to separate fact from fiction...

Do we have to contribute threads?

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Marliese said>>>>
"Not speaking for Pristash, and not referring to anything in particular here, just generally speaking, I've read Pristash's comments and opinions for years, he's pragmatic, doesn't whine, doesn't schmooze, and always...always, apologizes if he's wrong. I appreciate his clarity, his encyclopedic knowledge of Tate Labianca, his ability to separate fact from fiction...

Do we have to contribute threads?"


Believe me Marliese, I've known Pristash for a long time.
He's always been the consumate gentlemen... and I've always had a great deal of respect for him, and his opinion.

In fact, when I was contemplating (opening) this blog, I tried three times to contact Pristash, to ask him if he wanted to go "halves".
That's right...
The top banner would have read "Lynyrd AND Pristash".
Katie can confirm this... as I discussed it with her a few times.

Unfortunately, I asked Pristash to e-mail me, three times on Thelma's blog... and he never responded.

I could also share a bit more information, and "proof" with Pristash privately... and under those conditions.
Unfortunately... that situation never materialized.

Pristash is a decent guy... like I said... he's always been a gentleman.
It just seems lately, he's been a bit more of a fact-finding ball-breaker than usual. LOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Pristash... I over-reacted a bit.
I apologize.

I understand your skepticism... without facts presented... it's just another goose-chase.
If we took everyone at their word, we'd get nowhere.
But, believe me... I would never steer anyone wrong, intentionally.
I'd like to think by now, you know that I'm not one to exaggerate... well, outside of my constant poor attempts at humor, that is.

I believe "A" book was found by Alice, and turned-in to the authorities.
Nothing more, nothing less.
I was simply "seconding" a portion of a statement, already made by Beauders.
I have strong reasons to back my assertion.. but, like I said... unfortunately, I can't elaborate further.

I'm not saying what the contents of that book was.
I'm not saying that "the family" was, or wasn't, there looking for that book.
I'm not saying the book, or even Leno's gambling activites, had anything to do with the motives.
All of that... I have no idea.

I'm just saying, a contact/phone book of some sort, was found by Alice, and turned-in.
It may have simply contained numbers regarding his supermarket business, for all I know.

Sometimes there's a choice to be made.
Go out on a limb, and offer information, without presentable facts with good intentions... or, keep your mouth shut.
I chose the former... as I said, with good intentions.

Peace... Lynyrd

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

BTW... the comments "order" is a little screwed-up.

Pistash repsonded earlier... but, it's just posting now.

I have the "comment moderation" on... and the folks who signed-on as members... their comments post immediately.
The folks who didn't, have to wait for me to "approve" their comment.
It's a delay... and things are often (consequently) not in the correct sequence.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I turned the thing off...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Marliese said>>>
"Do we have to contribute threads?"

YES... and that's across the board, and with no exceptions. LOL
Nah... I'm just teasin' ya.

Sometimes when I get going... I'm a run-away train.
You'll get used to it. LOL
I usually come back down to earth within 12 hours... and things are back to normal. : )

Just another one of life's bumps along the road.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Although Marliese...
I do think it would be a really cool experience... if everyone was just as involved in the threads... as they are in the comment section.
Talk about a truly "interactive" and "unique" blog experience!!

We could rotate weeks, and see what everyone comes-up with, for their week.

It'll never happen... I know that.
But... it would be quite the "hippy"/"communal" experience.
Heck... everyone must have something they'd love to say or share by now!

Marliese... you were saying earlier, that it amazed you, how the perpetrators of the Willett deaths... seemed to get away, with light sentences.

I always wondered if Steve Grogan wasn't politically tied somehow.
He's another that seemed to get a pretty light road.
First off... he was the only one to escape the "death penalty" sentence initially wasn't he?
Then, he was released after what? 12-14 years?
OK... I know he cut a deal, and identified the where-abouts of Shea and all that... but, what a lucky bastard huh?
Is Leslie really THAT much more guilty than Grogan was?

Anywho...
That "queery"/"thought" regarding Grogan, was one of my first threads.. and it spawned quite a considerable response/conversation.
Something like your "Willett thought" (like a minute with Andy Rooney, LOL)... can make for a really good thread discussion.
Like I said... I think everyone has something floating around in their head like that... that should be shared.
I also think every person on this blog, is more than capable of constructing a kick-ass thread.

My opinion... "for what it's worth"... as they say.

starship said...

Hey, lynyrd,

Please, no need to apologize to me. It's your blog. And thank you for your initial invite to join you. I was and remain flattered.

I jsut couldn't get into this now. My wife would definitely leave me if I put any more energy and effort into a 42 year old murder case which happened clear across the country.

That said, retirement may enable me more time. Alas, that is probably a decade away for me at least.

But, Lynyrd, I haven't begun yet, but I promise I shall attempt this summer to research whether or not Leno's Gateway Supermarkets ended up post his demise the property of the apparently mafia related Shop-Rite supermarkets of today.

Peace!

katie8753 said...

>>>Mr. P said: I'm saying that not a single human being ever died at the hands of the Family anywhere in Death Valley. Not a single person is listed as missing in Death Valley who was connected to the Family.>>>

How do you know this? And even if it's true, there are victims of the family that WEREN'T CONNECTED to them.

Namely....TLB!!!

MrPoirot said...

ob·fus·cate verb
\ˈäb-fə-ˌskāt; äb-ˈfəs-ˌkāt, əb-\
ob·fus·cat·edob·fus·cat·ing
Definition of OBFUSCATE
transitive verb
1a : darken b : to make obscure
2: confuse

katie8753 said...

ed·i·fy   /ˈɛdəfaɪ/
–verb (used with object), -fied, -fy·ing.
to instruct or benefit, especially morally or spiritually; uplift

beauders said...

as far as i know the only benefit grogan had over the others was he had a brother studying to be a police officer.
i don't know if there were murders in death valley but it wouldn't surprise me if there were. the guys seemed to go feral in the desert. maybe they didn't tell the girls because they realized what blather mouths they were. the main guys in the desert--manson, grogan, davis have already were already convicted of murder why would they tell anyone today or maybe manson was so serious about getting evryones hands dirty they did and are afraid of their own complicity. does anyone believe if grogan and rocky had caught up with hoyt and schram(?)those women would be alive today?

beauders said...

also susan atkins was not a creative liar. she took stories already talked about and elaborated on them--she was responcible for the murder of tate, she was having sex with a guy who killed himself during the act. so what about the three she said she brought to death valley, maybe they were just hikers/dropped out hippies and they were murdered. atkins just wasn't that creative to come up with this out of dead air. what about tennerelli, the biker who supposedly killed himself but they found his car soaked in blood at the bottom of a gully in death valley. it's pretty hard to kill yourself one place and have your car found miles away with enough of your blood in it to know you died there.

MrPoirot said...

It was Diane Lake who said she had 3 bikers bring her to Death Valley. Then Larry White Rabbit Melton further edified Diane's story by claiming Charlie shot all three bikers in the back of the head with a 45 caliber pistol. Naturally the biker gang had no objections to the executions and held no hard feelings towards Charlie.

That White Rabbit dude is a very honest guy. He is the very pillar of honesty. He would never exaggerate.

And frankly Beauders I'm shocked that you would even dare to try to impune or discredit Sadie's reputation as a trustworthy, ever reliable upstanding citizen.

beauders said...

actually there are two stories of atkins bringing three people to barker ranch to help her get zezo back. one set of three was two bikers and one girl, and another set just being kids, two boys and a girl.

MrPoirot said...

Beauders in Nelson's interview of Diane Lake she said Charlie got mad at her for bringing THREE guys with her to Barkers thus revealing their hideout. White Rabbit said a Manson girl showed up at Barkers with THREE bikers with her so Charlie executed the bikers. You just mentioned Sadie arriving on 2 occasions having THREE people with her. All 4 stories you and I mention sound like variations of the same story.

Janson2112 said...

I dont understane why it is so hard to beleive that there are mor bodies buried at Barker, I have only been there once and it was before it caughgt on fire, but in the early evening when we were preparing to leave, the most gawd awful smell came from nowhere, everyone was consumed on trying to figure out what the smell was. I knew but didnt say anything because I wanted to get the hell out of there and was creeped out, but once you have smelled a dead body you never forget the smell, that day it smelt like a whole lot of bodies or we were standing really close to one body? Dont know, but I do not get spooked very easy, BUT I will NEVER go back there again. Also, anyone that thinks the family is only responsible for 9 deaths, really isnt paying a whole lot of attention to this case!