Friday, June 3, 2011

"Blood Family"... previously published as "Trial By Your Peers", was written by TLB juror William Zamora... 507 pages.  According to Pristash and MattProkes... the book was not a must-read. 
I found it interesting however, that Zamora actually wrote the book, during the trial... talk about a first-hand, fresh source. LOL  The book can be found on Amazon (link below) starting at $4.32, through $55.96... quite a disparity huh?  Most copies are under ten bucks however... and according to MP, the book can probably be found readily in bargain bins. LOL  This one has a price tag of $1.95. : ) 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0890832110/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&qid=1307127187&sr=8-1&condition=used

66 comments:

katie8753 said...

Thanks Lynyrd! I think I'll start with the library first. I'd like to get this book.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Yeah... I'd like to at least skim it once, out of sheer curiousity.
You could probably grab one out of the local library circulation as Pristash suggested for free... or, grab a cheap used copy on Amazon for 5 bucks, plus shipping.
You'd have to go used anyway... it didn't appear to me, they're still printing new copies, unless I missed something.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Maybe Hendrickson should consider Zamora's price point. LOLOL

Poirot is gonna jump right on that one! : )

mattprokes said...

thats the one i have...looks like i got a deal for a dollar.
if you're paying a buck or two its worth a read but from what i recall there was'nt much new info in it.
i remember there was a clip on youtube with this juror and paul fitzgerald screaming at each other on some talk show.
damned if i can remember which show it was some bertice berry/sally jessie type of show from the 80s.
maybe its on the backporch tapes channel.

Mary said...

507 pages??? Really?

mattprokes said...

its the leeza show!
on yt type in 'leeza the most dangerous man alive charles manson'

its the ed george taming the beast review towards the end of part two zamora and fitzgerald start in with each other.

how many of these damned shows were on back then?!?

katie8753 said...

Thanks Matt. I'll check it out!

Kimchi said...

Sorry folks, but this guy lost credibility with me, all he did (in his book) was gossip about the other jurors...JMO

katie8753 said...

Kimchi are you talking about this book?

katie8753 said...

Kimchi, you mentioned a book called "Coming Down Fast" that you were reading. I went to Barnes & Nobles and they didn't have any idea what I was talking about. Is that the name of the book? Where did you get it?

Kimchi said...

No, I'm talking about the Zamora book...

Kimchi said...

Coming Down Fast is good...Simon did a lot of research..

katie8753 said...

Kimchi, where did you get Coming Down Fast? I'd like to get it and read it.

Kimchi said...

I got it (Coming Down Fast) through Amazon

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thanks M/P.
I'll check-out that video, when I have a chance.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Mary said>>>>
"507 pages??? Really?"<<<<

That's how Amazon listed it.. but, it could be inaccurate.
It's just one of those type-in fields, that they use for all the books.
It sounded a little high to me, as well.
Maybe M/P, Pristash or Kimchi can shed some light on the true number of pages.
Is it really 507?
I'd like to know myself. LOL

lurch said...

Blood Family has very little in the way of new info.....more of a "diary of a juror" deal. Not an esential read. Slightly better than "Reflections on the Manson Trial" by Rosemary Baer, who was a wife of one of the jurors, though. "Coming Down Fast" is a really good read, highly recommended!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hello Lurch, and Welcome!

Starship and MattProkes gave a very similar review (of the book) on the previous thread... and Kimchi on this one.
With your input... it's now 4 for 4, thumb's down! LOL

Kimchi said...

Lurch, I agree...he (the author) put to rest, (to me) the questions regarding the Pugh incident...

Kimchi said...

Lurch said"

"Coming Down Fast" is a really good read, highly recommended!"

I agree...and how the author settled the Pugh thing..

I have to learn to be specific on these blogs..

katie8753 said...

OK thanks Kimchi. Thanks Lurch.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Kimchi said>>>>
"Lurch, I agree...he (the author) put to rest, (to me) the questions regarding the Pugh incident".<<<<

It's really strange, because a blogger by the screen-name "Shak El" has posted here only one time... and he said EXACTLY the same thing.
It was way, way back... I went looking for his comment, but can't find it.
Anyway... he asserted that Simon's book, addressed the Pugh situation definitively.

BUT NOW... the weird part of the story:
After his comment... I went poking around.
I found a 2-3 part video set of Simon (on YouTube) being interviewed following the realease of the book.
The entire 2nd-half of the footage, Simon discusses Pugh... and Simon states 3 times... "it's still an open debate, and after much research... I'm not convinced either way". (paraphrasing)
I was baffled... and I'm baffled again.
Now, I have both Shak El AND Kimchi saying the book put the subject to bed, once and for all... and the author himself, says he's still undecided???
True Story.
I'll see if I can find the footage later.

Kimchi said...

I'd like to see that footage too..Simon has posted on another blog and he was quite confident of his research and findings regarding Pugh..

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I'll find it for you tonight Kimchi.
I'm currently researching the Zamora footage M/P mentioned. : )

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Katie:
Simon Wells', "Coming Down fast", can be found here on Amazon, for $6-$10, plus shipping.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0340977019/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&qid=1307146810&sr=8-1&condition=all

katie8753 said...

Lynyrd thanks for posting that Zamora video on Leeza Gibbons.

Boy Zamora really got angry for a while there. I can't blame him though, Fitzgerald is so smug, pompous and self-righteous.

So Charlie sent him a threatening letter? I made a comment on the previous thread about the jurors that Charlie seemed to have all their personal information, i.e., addresses, family members names, etc. I wonder where he got it.

Also I remember reading where Charlie used to stare the jurors down and try to intimidate them.

I have to say, that must have been the hardest jury duty EVER!!

katie8753 said...

Thanks Lynyrd for the Coming Down Fast info. I'm going to order that one!!! :)

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Kimchi: Here's the Simon Wells interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGO3eFPvff8&feature=related


Start listening at 4 minutes, 55 seconds through 7 minutes, 20 seconds.

He waffles all over the place.
Here's two examples...

At 5 minutes, 17 seconds:
Simon says:
"something was definitely happening there (in England)"... "who knows at the end of the day".

AT 7 minutes 12 seconds:
Simon says:
"the letter put things in better perspective... but, there'll always be a question mark, hanging over this".

Kimchi said...

It's easy to get juror information - that's why I hate Jury Duty - we have to state our name, where we live, our spouse's name and EXACTLY where we work and who we work for....it's the defendent's right to know...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Katie... here's a 3-part audio interview with Simon Wells, the author of "Coming Down Fast".
I believe, it's specifically about the book.

It'll give you a little idea, what you're in-for. LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysiGMbZuqKM&feature=related

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Kimchi... I posted the Simon wells interview of which I spoke earlier (where he waffles on the Joel Pugh motive) a few comments previous to this one.

I got real specific with 3-4 time references, right down to the seconds. LOLOL
That should save you a lotta headaches, because it's a half hour interview. LOL

Tell me what you think!

katie8753 said...

>>>Kimchi said: It's easy to get juror information - that's why I hate Jury Duty - we have to state our name, where we live, our spouse's name and EXACTLY where we work and who we work for....it's the defendent's right to know...>>>

Wow! That's amazing! That info should be strictly confidential. And this case is the perfect example. Not only do you give up your life for the duration of the trial (in this case 9 months!!) but then you have to live in fear because a guy you sent to the gas chamber has your address!!! Unbelievable!

I've never been picked for any jury, so I never really thought about that.

katie8753 said...

>>>Lynyrd said: Katie... here's a 3-part audio interview with Simon Wells, the author of "Coming Down Fast".

I believe, it's specifically about the book.>>>

Thanks Lynyrd...I'll check that out next!!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I gotta warn ya Katie... I found the interview extremely tedious, and difficult to endure.
Wells may be a very smart man, and the book might be fabulous... but, he speaks so slowly and deliberately... it was like pulling teeth, for me to stay focused.
I kept thinking... "C'mon dude, get on with it already"! LOL
It also seemed like his mouth was WAY too close to the microphone or something.
But... for Kimchi... I did it!!!
LOLOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

MattProkes... did you catch the Bruins game wednesday night?

Tough to lose by one goal, with 19 seconds left.
On the other hand... it coulda went either way, which is a good sign.
We stood toe-to-toe with the Canucks for an entire game.
I gotta feeling this will go seven games.
I can hope anyway!!!

Kimchi said...

"Kimchi: Here's the Simon Wells interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGO3eFPvff8&feature=related"

Thanks Lynyrd..

I listened to it...but I still lean toward what he wrote in the book and here:

The facts:

http://joelpughcharlesmanson.blogspot.com/

Sometimes they add "interesting" things in interviews to sell books...but that's JMO again.

katie8753 said...

Lynyrd I listened to that clip and yes, he was kinda hard to understand with that British accent and all. Plus my speakers don't work too good.

But...since Kimchi & Lurch thought it a good read, I'll go ahead and get it!

Go Bruins!! (Is that football? HA HA.)

Kimchi said...

Hmm, according to Wiki, Simon is the great-grandson of H.G. Wells...interesting, I didn't know that! I also have a book of the Beatles by him...

katie8753 said...

H. G. Wells!! That is interesting Kimchi. I guess writing runs in that family.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

In fairness, Wells also says (in the interview):
"I present the facts (regarding Pugh), and let the reader decide".

I think, as Kimchi suggests, authors sometimes (intentionally) leave you hanging, when promoting a new book.
If they reveal everyhting, there'll be no reason to buy the book.
It's like they say in show business:
"Always leave them wanting more". LOL

Katie, if Kimchi and Lurch say it's a good read... I'd say go for it.
Just don't get the audio book!! hahaha

katie8753 said...

>>>Lynyrd said: Katie, if Kimchi and Lurch say it's a good read... I'd say go for it.
Just don't get the audio book!! hahaha>>>

I won't! I'll just keep saying "huh"???

I forgot to tell you Lynyrd that I was watching Judge Mathis today (love that guy) and the defendant was from Alabama and Judge Mathis said that he had lunch with the Lynyrd Skynyrd Band the day before, and kept going on about that song "Sweet Home Alabama". He's a big fan of theirs.

That Judge knows lots of folks!! HA HA.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Are you serious??? LOL
Well... he's got great taste in music!

I'm not a big fan of Mathis' show.

The only online judge I REALLY like (and watch), is "Marylin Milian".
As the beginning of her show states... "the hottest judge on television". LOL
She IS a good-looking woman! LOL
She's REALLY smart too.
That woman is SHARP!

Mary said...

Lynyrd - typical man...beauty before brains...she is hot...oh, and she is smart to, I guess. LOL!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

AHahahaha

Aw C'mon... I put the "REALLY" and "SHARP" in Caps.
Beauty AND brains... what more can ya ask for?
But yeah... they always do list beauty first, don't they? hahaha

Oh well... think of it as a compliment.
How many women wanna be known as ugly? LOLOL

Mary said...

I was just thinking about this juror thing yesterday. I have been watching the Casey Anthony trial and the jury is sequestered, just like the Manson trial. All us on the outside world are inundated with information - information that the jury does have access to...information that is obviously prejudice towards the defendant...just like the Manson trial.

I would definitely love to read a book that tells the story that they jury hears. Sometimes it is hard to believe juries make the decisions they make - but they don't have all the information that we do...only what is permissable in court. Too bad this book was not received well - if someone did it right...it would prove to be a very interesting read.

katie8753 said...

Mary that is soooo true.

The jury only hears what is admissable.

They can't hear about any prior offenses...no matter how much it might affect their decision....because of the rights of the accused.

I'll tell ya....it's gotta be hard to be a DA. There are so many rules you have to go by.

I'd like to know just what the Anthony jury is hearing. I know what they're seeing...it's on the news. But what have they heard???? That's the question.

Although I can't imagine anyone on this planet not thinking this girl is guilty.

katie8753 said...

>>>Lynyrd said: Oh well... think of it as a compliment.
How many women wanna be known as ugly? LOLOL>>>

I can't think of many. HA HA.

But I have to say...I think Judge Mathis is cute. And funny!! (Blush)!!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Mary said>>>>
"Too bad this book was not received well - if someone did it right...it would prove to be a very interesting read".<<<<

Rich and I, were just discussing reading the Zamora book, on the previous thread.
Why not give it a skim?
At the library it's free... and Amazon has it for 5 bucks.
You gotta figure... Zamora actually wrote the book, while attending the trial daily... that's a pretty "first-hand" account.
And if it sucks... just return it to the library.

From what I suspect... it's not so much about case-solving facts... but rather, what it was like to be a juror... the "juror experience", if you will.
According to the main article below (which Katie submitted), Zamora discusses the other jurors quite a bit.
Kimchi corroborates that fact.

Give it a shot! LOLOL
But, read pages 66-90, of "The Family" first! LOL
(Sorry, I couldn't resist) : )

mattprokes said...

the one i've been trying to get through the r.i. library is desert shadows.i've had it on hold for 3 months so i guess i'm out of luck.
ls- as far as the bruins go that did suck but it was a fun game to watch and i think the bruins can beat ANY team when they're on top
of their game.
i think the fans,media, canucks all underestimate the bs. i would'nt count us out even if were down 2-0(but i would'nt want to test out that theory)
i say 3-1 boston thomas is good at bouncing back from stuff like that.
get through the 1st ten minutes at 0-0 and go on from there.
easier said than done!
nothing more fun than playoff hockey(when you win)

MrPoirot said...

Mattprokes try interlibrary loan for Desert Shadows. It is obviously lost from your library. It's one of my favorite Manson books because it focuses more on their desert adventures. Yes part of the book does discuss other parts of the saga but those parts Don Murphy almost copied ver batim from other books. Murphy's expertise on Death Valley matters is 1st hand.



BTW there was a rumor this week that a defense atty slept with two Manson girls. If it's true it was Fitzgerald that did so. You can see he's tight with the girls and defends them voraciously. Fitzgerald seems to have a screw loose as well. His story about the girls asking cops for a ice cream cone is silly. So if a criminal asks for an ice cream that means they're an honest citizen?

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Poirot,

I believe you meant Bob Murphy.
The author that is...

mattprokes said...

the interlibrary loan is the one i've been waiting for.
guess someone took it out and never brought it back.
usually it takes about a week to get a book or dvd from anywhere in the state.
the only manson book in my local library is helter skelter.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Poirot...

I don't know much about this "sleeping with girls" rumor, but Fitzgerald certainly comes across like a freak, with a few screws loose... I'll agree with you there. LOL

MrPoirot said...

Yea Lynyrd it was Bob wasn't it? BTW, who was the cop or ranger in Manson73? That cop was very cozy with all the Family. He's shown with them in the desert in what almost looks like a traffic pull. I think he was a Mansonaholic too like us. He was the one who warned Crockett Poston and Watkins not to go to Barkers because a raid was going to happen. I can't imagine a cop telling even his wife about a raid beforehand and admitting this yet he did both.

Mary said...

"But, read pages 66-90, of "The Family" first! LOL
(Sorry, I couldn't resist) : )"

LOL! You really know how to hurt a gal! Actually, that is on my list of things to do this weekend.

Kimchi said...

A person of interest to me has always been Charlene Cafritz - I know Sanders mentions her briefly, with videos of the family and the place in Reno, it just seems like she is mentioned, died during the trial before she could testify and poof...gone...and Melba Kronkite is a mystery too...

MrPoirot said...

there are multiple versions of THE FAMILY. Page quotes an be 4- pgs off. Entire groups of chapters are absent from later versions.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

WTF?!!!
The Bruins lose game 1... by one goal... with 19 seconds left... final score 1-0.

Tonight... the game was dead-locked 2-2... goes into overtime, and we lose 11 seconds into overtime.
I got up to use the bathroom, and it was over!

I don't know what's worse... getting smoked... or losing by one goal every night with seconds on the clock!!!!

For cripes sakes...

katie8753 said...

This is my favorite Cat Stevens song. Ruby Love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoOXIoqCWnE

"Ruby my love. You'll be my love. You'll be my sky above. Ruby my life. You'll be my life. You'll be my day and night. You'll be mine tonight."

AHHHHHH. SOOOOO SWEEEETT!!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Cat Stevens...
I like "Oh Very Young".

katie8753 said...

Oh Lynyrd, Cat Stevens was SUCH a big part of my early adult years. I first heard him in 1971 when I was 17.

Peace Train, How Can I Tell You, Wild World, Moon Shadow, Tuesday's Dead, Morning Has Broken, Ruby Love....And yes, Oh Very Young. Just some of the few. Great, great songs.

Sigh...the easy days of yore!!! HA HA.

katie8753 said...

And I'll say one more thing, I don't care if he became a muslim. I still love him!!!

katie8753 said...

The Peace Train.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sjSHazjrWg&feature=related

MrPoirot said...

katie8753 said...
And I'll say one more thing, I don't care if he became a muslim. I still love him!!!

Mr Poirot replies:

His cult belief in islam ended the music you loved. Islam is a cult. The music you love came prior to his islamic belief. ALL the songs you love by Cat were vwritten before his conversion. Islam ended the musical career of your favorite musician.
Islam threatens everything. Nothing flourishes under islam. Least of all music or females.

katie8753 said...

Yes Mr P. I know that his decision to become an islamic took a toll.

But I still love his music as Cat Stevens. And I always will, as he will always be the Cat.

Nobody can take than from me. Not even him :}

Shak El said...

Cat Stevens is playing his old stuff again. He came back out at the Corbert/Daily Show rally in Washingtim where he performed Peace Train until interrupted by Ozzy Ozborne singing Crazy Train