tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post3362775445731134869..comments2024-03-19T21:34:44.985-04:00Comments on The Tate-LaBianca Homicide Research Blog: Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-2410188737594407572012-11-06T09:10:35.306-05:002012-11-06T09:10:35.306-05:00Yea Doc it's a DA. It isn't really a true ...Yea Doc it's a DA. It isn't really a true cowboy revolver.Most early cowboy six shooters were SA.MrPoirothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06155552886069024565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-31186158869655467842012-11-06T04:54:41.871-05:002012-11-06T04:54:41.871-05:00MrPoirot said...
To Sunset77
My apolohie...MrPoirot said...<br /><br /> To Sunset77<br /><br /> My apolohies, you were correct. The Manson gun is a double action and the cylinder does hinge out to load. It is not a single action as I said.<br /> November 6, 2012 2:59 AM <br />--------------------------------<br />Are you sure? I thought it was a single action revolver.Doc Sierrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15092659205764422809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-53096824265983909412012-11-06T02:59:09.959-05:002012-11-06T02:59:09.959-05:00To Sunset77
My apolohies, you were correct. The M...To Sunset77<br /><br />My apolohies, you were correct. The Manson gun is a double action and the cylinder does hinge out to load. It is not a single action as I said.MrPoirothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06155552886069024565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-43016464205630583212012-11-03T00:15:24.023-04:002012-11-03T00:15:24.023-04:00Doc Sierra said...
I read somewhere that gun had a...Doc Sierra said...<br />I read somewhere that gun had a history misfiring. When CM shot Bernard Crowe he had to pull the trigger more than once to get off one shot(end quote)<br /><br />Poirot rteplies:<br /><br />A misfire is not the same as a jam.<br /><br />Misfire is when the trigger is pulled and the hammer falls but doesnt ignite the gunpowder in the 22 casing. Better known as a dud.<br /><br />Jam is a mechanical malfunction where either the trigger is frozen or the cylinder is frozen or the hammer wont fall when the trigger is pulled. It's broken anotherwords.<br /><br />The Buntline had a history of misfring at the Ranch due to cheap and/or old ammo. There was not a mechanical problem with the Buntline.<br /><br />Tex hit Frykowski so hard that it broke the gun in some way that caused a jam. Anotherwords when Tex pulled the trigger nothing happened. The hammer never fell and the cylinder didnt turn. The ammo was perfectly good but the gun got broken after the 7th round was fired. The gun jammed not misfired.<br /><br /><br />MrPoirothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06155552886069024565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-47473029770143897052012-11-02T17:33:04.260-04:002012-11-02T17:33:04.260-04:00MrPoirot said...
If the last two rounds were ...MrPoirot said...<br /><br /> If the last two rounds were duds there would be a clearly visable<br /> firing pin indentation. There wasn't.<br /> The gun jammed after he clobbered Frykowski with it.<br />-------------------------------------<br />I read somewhere that gun had a history misfiring. When CM shot Bernard Crowe he had to pull the trigger more than once to get off one shot.Doc Sierrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15092659205764422809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-55350817193399839042012-11-02T16:41:21.503-04:002012-11-02T16:41:21.503-04:00In the photo Paul Watkins looks like he could be r...In the photo Paul Watkins looks like he could be related to the Cheeto's Cheese Puffs mouse.Doc Sierrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15092659205764422809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-10829692705704923872012-11-02T16:39:51.111-04:002012-11-02T16:39:51.111-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Doc Sierrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15092659205764422809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-77138351795667701672012-11-02T16:37:41.973-04:002012-11-02T16:37:41.973-04:00If the last two rounds were duds there would be a ...If the last two rounds were duds there would be a clearly visable<br />firing pin indentation. There wasn't.<br />The gun jammed after he clobbered Frykowski with it.MrPoirothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06155552886069024565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-88716895524272702482012-11-02T16:24:42.768-04:002012-11-02T16:24:42.768-04:00In other words, something happened with the gun. ...In other words, something happened with the gun. Tex wasn't saving bullets.revatronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06445916298681297308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-48643708248363672262012-11-02T16:23:14.306-04:002012-11-02T16:23:14.306-04:00Yeah, the testimony is FULL of inaccuracies, but t...Yeah, the testimony is FULL of inaccuracies, but there's only two reason not to fire the last two shots<br />1. The gun jams<br />2. Cheap ammo doesn't fire, assumes he's out of bullets<br /><br />I'm not sure which, but if he knew he had two bullets left, and if the gun were working properly, then someone, probably Voytek would have a couple slugs in them too.revatronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06445916298681297308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-90591393903139508162012-11-02T16:10:57.899-04:002012-11-02T16:10:57.899-04:00or maybe tex was telling the truth and he did walk...or maybe tex was telling the truth and he did walk in the front door.... <br />who knows with tex. when his lips move you pretty much brace yourself for lies. <br />johnnyseattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10315694616360383693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-19445269669638270062012-11-02T16:10:05.984-04:002012-11-02T16:10:05.984-04:00tex was mixed up in his testimony as he also said ...tex was mixed up in his testimony as he also said he walked in the front door. this is at odds with his later book. johnnyseattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10315694616360383693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-35216148629234738142012-11-02T15:21:28.489-04:002012-11-02T15:21:28.489-04:00sunset77 said...
Blogger MrPoirot said...
"S... sunset77 said...<br />Blogger MrPoirot said...<br /><br />"Sunset the buntline was merely jammed"<br /><br />How does a double action revolver "jam"? I packed my Hi-Standard Longhorn through mud, sticks, woods and rivers for about 15 years, it never jammed a single time(end quote)<br /><br />Poirot replies:<br /><br />Sunset if I read you correctly the Buntline is a Single Action revolver not a Double action. That bent part under the barrel has an eject rod on a spring that pushes out each spent casing manually one at a time.<br />The short rod/pin sticking out is the axel rod that the cylinder rotates on. If you pull it forward it comes out completely and the cylinder comes loose from the pistol. You then have the cylinder in your hand. The cylinder does not swivel out like a Double Action does. In a Single Action it comes completely out the gun without the cylinder rod to hold it in place. On Tex's gun you can swap cylinders between 22LR and 22Magnum.<br />MrPoirothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06155552886069024565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-52777105579353044652012-11-02T14:15:38.481-04:002012-11-02T14:15:38.481-04:00Blogger MrPoirot said...
"Sunset the bun...Blogger MrPoirot said...<br /><br /> "Sunset the buntline was merely jammed"<br /><br />How does a double action revolver "jam"? I packed my Hi-Standard Longhorn through mud, sticks, woods and rivers for about 15 years, it never jammed a single time. <br /><br />Also, the portion of Watson's gun that is bent is not the spent shell casing ejector, it's the "cylinder release mechanism". There is a tab underneath the barrel you slide forward while pushing against the cylinder with your other hand and the cylinder swivels out to the left. The shell casing ejector is the pin in the center of the cylinder, you push that back towards the hammer and the spent casings fall out on the ground.<br /><br />At least that's how mine operated.sunset77https://www.blogger.com/profile/04041729222425015567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-29948046978900406342012-11-02T14:03:21.707-04:002012-11-02T14:03:21.707-04:00Tex didn't run out of bullets, but he thought ...Tex didn't run out of bullets, but he thought he did.<br />I know his testimony is full of tons of bologna, but here are some quotes from page 4 http://www.charliemanson.com/documents/testimony-watson-4.htm<br />Here he is talking about Sebring<br />A: "I emptied the gun on this man."<br />Q: "You say emptied the gun on this man?"<br />A: "Yes."<br />Q: "How many times did you shoot him, if you know?"<br />A: "I don't know. I just shot, you know. I don't know how many times I shot him."<br />Later in the questioning...<br />Q: "...do you remember how many people you shot in the house?"<br />A: "One person."<br />Q: "Oh, you shot one in the car, is that correct, outside of the house?"<br />A: "That's correct."<br />Q: "And one in the house?"<br />A: "That's what I did."<br />Q: "Do you have any recollection of shooting any other person in the house?"<br />A: "No, I have not, no."<br />Q: "Did you know that the gun still had live bullets in it?"<br />A: "No, I did not."<br /><br />Probably he pulled the trigger and the gun didn't go off so he thought he was out of bullets. Then he started using the gun as a hammer.revatronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06445916298681297308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-64756692956733177412012-11-02T11:45:54.138-04:002012-11-02T11:45:54.138-04:00Thanks Sunset. I didn't know about the video. ...Thanks Sunset. I didn't know about the video. <br /><br />One striking thing about the pic is that those doors were last opened by Abrigail as she was followed closely on her heels by the killers. A desperate run. johnnyseattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10315694616360383693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-26222925490567643502012-11-02T11:28:09.763-04:002012-11-02T11:28:09.763-04:00The Buntline didn't jam on Charlie. It just di...The Buntline didn't jam on Charlie. It just didn't go off. I think the second or third time he pulled the trigger it went off.<br /><br />22 ammo is usually cheap, target ammo with 5 or 6 duds out of every 50 to 100 rounds. Sometimes you can back the cylinder up and try refing the bullet. If it doesn't fire the second time most people just throw that round away.<br /><br /><br />But with Tex the gun jammed. Meaning he was unable to get the trigger to move.MrPoirothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06155552886069024565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-10075134530456547252012-11-02T11:01:47.541-04:002012-11-02T11:01:47.541-04:00Isn't that the same gun Charlie used to shoot ...Isn't that the same gun Charlie used to shoot Crowe and it "jammed" on him then? Or was a different gun?katie8753https://www.blogger.com/profile/00353364961453501063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-61444942019655851602012-11-02T10:57:05.008-04:002012-11-02T10:57:05.008-04:00http://www.cielodrive.com/photo-archive/buntline-2...http://www.cielodrive.com/photo-archive/buntline-22-tate-murder-gun-02.php<br /><br />Here's the Buntline pistol. Notice the barrel is straight. The ejectot rod housing underneath the barrel is what got bent. MrPoirothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06155552886069024565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-49905761627505966182012-11-02T10:37:32.480-04:002012-11-02T10:37:32.480-04:00Sunset the buntline was merely jammed. It could ha...Sunset the buntline was merely jammed. It could have been unjammed in couple of minutes.<br /><br />The barrel was not bent as typically stated. That barrel was solid steel and would never bend vs a human skull. What was bent was the ejector rod housing under the barrel.<br /><br />The pistol was found by the Weiss kid with 2 live rounds and 7 spent shell casings still in the cylinder.<br />The trigger guard was broken long before the murders. MrPoirothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06155552886069024565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-66772681664959759952012-11-02T10:23:10.187-04:002012-11-02T10:23:10.187-04:00Sunset, thanks as usual for all your good info. ...Sunset, thanks as usual for all your good info. It's very possible that Tex ran out of bullets. He may have just thought it jammed. I never heard about the horn in Parent's car not working either. Interesting stuff.<br /><br />Johnny, thanks for the heads up on the pics at Cielodrive.com. I'll check those out.<br /><br />Mr. P., thanks for the info on the Power Wagon. <br /><br /><i>Prices are slightly higher than the $1,627 list price of the 1946 original, starting at $119,950 and running up to $249,000 for a Woodie wagon...</i><br /><br />That's quite a difference in price! LOL.katie8753https://www.blogger.com/profile/00353364961453501063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-86040802680586336032012-11-02T09:14:44.543-04:002012-11-02T09:14:44.543-04:00The pic archive at Cielo Drive calls Watson's...The pic archive at Cielo Drive calls Watson's pistol a "buntline" in the caption of a couple of pix. It's a personal peeve of mine, but to the best of my knowledge, Hi-Standard never manufactured anything they called a "buntline". <br /><br />I'm guessing they copied the LOOK of a Colt "Buntline Special" to capitalize on the popularity of that model. <br /><br />I think the caption in one of the pix says Watson used the gun as a bludgeon after it "jammed". That would be VERY unusual. My dad had a Hi-Standard, chrome plated, Longhorn, "double-nine" 9 shot, .22 caliber revolver, with a 6 inch barrel. I fired thousands of rounds through that pistol, not one single time do I ever remember it "jamming". What I think is more likely is Watson simply ran out of bullets. While the cylinder holds 9 rounds, I'm guessing Watson started out the evening with either some empty chambers, or chambers with spent casings. I know from experience it's very easy to do. <br /><br />Also, there is a pic showing the interior of Steven Parent's car. The horn button seems to be missing from the center of the steering wheel. Under the dash is what appears to be a white button with wires coming out. Actually, that brought back memories for me as I bought a car once with a round white plastic button, the same size, shape and color, located in almost exactly the same position, with wires coming out. I'm guessing the horn quit in Parent's car, they couldn't find the right parts, so they bought an aftermarket horn switch and mounted it under the dash.<br /><br />Finally, @JohnnySeattle, I think there is a vid on YouTube from when some rock band people owned the house years after the murders. The cameraman re-traces Folger's steps through the house and onto the lawn. It's very creepy.sunset77https://www.blogger.com/profile/04041729222425015567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-61015456746117175612012-11-02T02:34:42.503-04:002012-11-02T02:34:42.503-04:00http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/11/01/legacy-p...http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/11/01/legacy-power-wagon-is-reborn-american-classic/?intcmp=features<br /><br />The Dodge Power WagonMrPoirothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06155552886069024565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-61234563646444597532012-11-02T00:59:36.096-04:002012-11-02T00:59:36.096-04:00the pic that Cielo Drive posted that really hits m...the pic that Cielo Drive posted that really hits me is the one of the hallway that Abrigail Folger ran down trying to escape the killers. the terror she must have felt as she headed out towards the pool. <br /><br /><br />http://www.cielodrive.com/photo-archive/10050-cielo-drive-hallway-01.phpjohnnyseattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10315694616360383693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-73450751841621660872012-11-02T00:52:02.093-04:002012-11-02T00:52:02.093-04:00nice article on juanita wildebush.
thanks!
hey, g...nice article on juanita wildebush.<br />thanks!<br /><br />hey, gotta concur on the pic archive over on Cielo Drive. very very interesting stuff. <br /><br /><br />johnnyseattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10315694616360383693noreply@blogger.com