tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post8629172618457517305..comments2024-03-19T21:34:44.985-04:00Comments on The Tate-LaBianca Homicide Research Blog: The Mistrial of Steve GroganUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-75548903551132409312014-01-10T14:16:25.778-05:002014-01-10T14:16:25.778-05:00Johnny, LOL!Johnny, LOL!katie8753https://www.blogger.com/profile/00353364961453501063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-7264047213833133762014-01-09T20:46:09.333-05:002014-01-09T20:46:09.333-05:00you know that picture of clem and bruce, i wonder ...you know that picture of clem and bruce, i wonder what they would have played 'good news' 'bad news' <br /><br />good news, you will both be alive in 2014<br /><br />bad news, only one of you would be free. <br /><br />and let them puzzle that out. johnnyseattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10315694616360383693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-35668193269188360542014-01-09T20:36:18.561-05:002014-01-09T20:36:18.561-05:00"They would invite me to go camping with them..."They would invite me to go camping with them at Spahn Ranch so they could reindoctrinate my misguided and corrupt establishmentarian ways of thinking."<br /><br />Man, best case scenario on that one is you come back on Monday with a killer set of STDs. Worst case scenario is you don't come back. <br /><br /><br /><br />johnnyseattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10315694616360383693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-70651814895687829072014-01-09T13:25:04.958-05:002014-01-09T13:25:04.958-05:00Jeffrey, I don't get all that legal stuff. It...Jeffrey, I don't get all that legal stuff. It seems that the perp has a lot more rights than the victim ever had.katie8753https://www.blogger.com/profile/00353364961453501063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-15737718880296683522014-01-09T11:57:14.053-05:002014-01-09T11:57:14.053-05:00Thanks for the reply Christopher,
I assumed that ...Thanks for the reply Christopher,<br /><br />I assumed that Katz would want to tell his side of the Dunne trial in his book.<br /><br />The decision that Katz made to disallow the testimony of a former girlfriend of the defendant was a major blow to the prosecution. The former girlfriend had been beaten by the defendant numerous times and had been hospitalized on two of those occasions.<br /><br />Allowing "prior bad acts" testimony is a slippery slope for a trial judge. The law generally prohibits prosecutors from introducing evidence of prior bad acts at trial to show that the defendant had a propensity for committing a crime, but evidence can be allowed to show a pattern of conduct.<br /><br />I'm not sure of the legal precedents that Katz considered when making his decision that the testimony would be too prejudicial. But, I am reminded of the Phil Spector trial where four different women were allowed to testify that Spector had previously pulled guns on them.<br /><br />And that is what is so maddening about our legal system...random and too open to interpretation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-72311914840339138432014-01-09T10:10:44.005-05:002014-01-09T10:10:44.005-05:00Anybody know if JFK ever blew Charles Manson?Anybody know if JFK ever blew Charles Manson?starshiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13207679706874165027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-53856072767216957902014-01-09T04:16:33.982-05:002014-01-09T04:16:33.982-05:00Jeffrey jeff
Katz does also write about the Dunne...Jeffrey jeff<br /><br />Katz does also write about the Dunne trial.<br /><br />I recently watched Michael Douglas in the movie 'The Star Chamber'. Which adopts a similar tone to Katz's dilemma.<br /><br />As a judge you can go for the conviction, but you will be aware throughout the trial that on appeal your decision will be reversed as a reversible error.<br /><br />As a judge you will attempt to follow previous appellate court decisions (many he claims are conflicting) which will result in what happened in the Dunne trial.<br /><br />The book also mentions that when Grogan decided to do something about letting the authorities know the whereabouts of Shea's remains, he chose to give this information by letter to Katz.Chris Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14711422705919582549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-17907984718049410602014-01-08T12:29:52.914-05:002014-01-08T12:29:52.914-05:00They should have used Judge Mathis. He would'...They should have used Judge Mathis. He would've put that "crack head" away. LOL.<br /><br />Mr. P, I know what you mean about Shirley McClaine. I saw an interview with her recently and she does tend to ramble.katie8753https://www.blogger.com/profile/00353364961453501063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-4660303694266833122014-01-08T08:08:41.555-05:002014-01-08T08:08:41.555-05:00Dooger said...
In the StarCity interview with Pau...Dooger said... <br />In the StarCity interview with Paul Cockett, he suggested that his testimony had something to do with the mistrial? An merit to that claim?(end quote)<br /><br />Poirot replies:<br /><br />Crockett is a limelighter and will put himself center stage if not corralled soon enough. I was hoping Brian Davis might get him back to guest again and this time keep him from wandering off into his ethereal crapola. He is very interesting when kept to the facts of what went on up at Barkers.<br />He reminds me of Shirley McClaine in her many books. She's fascinating when she talks Hollywood but my eyes glaze over when she detours off into her spiritualism and UFO tales. After that you can just close her book and go to sleep. No point reading further. Remember that long hook that would come out onto the stage and grab Vaudeville acts that were bombing?<br /><br />MrPoirothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06155552886069024565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-42250449344463168212014-01-07T22:00:30.320-05:002014-01-07T22:00:30.320-05:00If anyone doesn't know or hasn't seen it a...If anyone doesn't know or hasn't seen it and wants to, there was a vid uploaded to YouTube about 2 years ago that might possibly be Steve Grogan playing guitar in a jazz blues band <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOSvMiUfoQ8" rel="nofollow">HERE</a>. Whatever else Grogan might have been, he's apparently a decent guitar player.<br /><br />I also ran across a pretty comprehensive article about Bobby Beausoleil from 2004 <a href="http://www.sfweekly.com/2004-11-17/news/lucifer-arisen/2/" rel="nofollow">HERE</a>.sunset77https://www.blogger.com/profile/04041729222425015567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-19794898857502512872014-01-07T21:40:54.741-05:002014-01-07T21:40:54.741-05:00In the StarCity interview with Paul Cockett, he su...In the StarCity interview with Paul Cockett, he suggested that his testimony had something to do with the mistrial? An merit to that claim?Cuntry Trashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05721594982194464895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-77747881615929675232014-01-07T18:25:39.334-05:002014-01-07T18:25:39.334-05:00Leery is very correct, you NEVER know unfortunatel...Leery is very correct, you NEVER know unfortunately how you will react in any given "stress" situation, regardless of experience or training. Everyone would like to think they would be the hero, but you won't really know until the time comes. And NO ONE should ever be faulted on that account.<br /><br />On a 2nd note, I found the "chambers story" very interesting. As many times as old ideas and theories are re-hashed, it is a extra special gem to learn something you may not have herd before or behind the scenes shenanigans.<br />Bravo Christopher!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-44031479144750178272014-01-07T15:58:07.546-05:002014-01-07T15:58:07.546-05:00Bobby, LOLOL!Bobby, LOLOL!katie8753https://www.blogger.com/profile/00353364961453501063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-111431450793161912014-01-07T14:12:02.599-05:002014-01-07T14:12:02.599-05:00Leary you should have changed the test questions a...Leary you should have changed the test questions and had different answers, so then the book would have been worthless to the kid. LOL.katie8753https://www.blogger.com/profile/00353364961453501063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-39930043888388840132014-01-07T14:08:25.016-05:002014-01-07T14:08:25.016-05:00you know years ago I was teaching school in Mesa a...you know years ago I was teaching school in Mesa and I had a kid who wore a trenchcoat everyday and had 'kill everyone' tattooed on his hands. Anyway, one day my teacher's book with all the answers disappeared and the other kids told me the trenchcoat kid had taken it. I considered this kid seriously deranged and dangerous.<br />So you know what I did? Nuttin. I decided it wasn't worth dying for $400 a week. Let the kid get all the right answers, what did I care.<br />Obviously, not my finest hour. I feel deep shame now looking back. And I actually did do something, I passed on the info to the asst principal. He was making 40k a year, let him take the risk.<br />It's easy to see Judge Call as a coward and schmuck. But unless you have been in that position, nobody knows how fear will affect their actions. It is 'the red badge of courage' over and over again.<br />Manson danger was real danger. Should we be shocked or contemptuous that it had a real effect?leary7https://www.blogger.com/profile/16573687537798248297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-37338207724956821472014-01-07T13:53:46.540-05:002014-01-07T13:53:46.540-05:00Mr. P, I thought the defense brought it up first, ...Mr. P, I thought the defense brought it up first, which allowed Katz to ask about it.katie8753https://www.blogger.com/profile/00353364961453501063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-9393981364784405512014-01-07T13:15:34.857-05:002014-01-07T13:15:34.857-05:00Katz goofed. That is why Judge Call rendered a mis...Katz goofed. That is why Judge Call rendered a mistrial. Katz went ahead and questioned Brenda about her and Clem planning the murder of Frank Retz. Technically that had no bearing in the Shorty Shea case and should not have been brought up. MrPoirothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06155552886069024565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-32783625860975242472014-01-07T11:38:43.792-05:002014-01-07T11:38:43.792-05:00He (Judge Kolts) conducted a fair and expeditious ...<i> He (Judge Kolts) conducted a fair and expeditious trial. The case was tried swiftly and without incident to a conviction and a death-penalty verdict which Kolts reduced to life in lieu of granting a motion for a new trial.</i> <br />Are judges in the habit of reversing the juries decision in the penalty phase? This is where Judge Kolts famously noted that: "Grogan was too stupid and too hopped on drugs to decide anything on his own" and that it was really Manson "who decided who lived or died".<br /><br />This is somewhat off topic and I don't mean to hijack the post, but I find it interesting that Burton Katz seems to be somewhat critical of the judges that he tried cases under. This chapter starts off with Katz's comment:<i> "In many ways, the worst judges are not the corrupt or crazy ones. The worst are decent, well-meaning judges who just are not up to the job."</i> That was in reference to Judge Call. Katz was also somewhat critical of Judge Keene in the previous chapter about Mary Brunner's recantation. <br /><br />One of the biggest miscarriages of justice in California history was the Dominique Dunne murder case where Katz was the presiding judge on the bench. Dunne was savagely beaten and strangled in the driveway of her home by an ex-boyfriend. Due largely to decisions that Katz made from the bench, the resulting trial ended with the defendant being convicted of manslaughter. He was sentenced to six and a half years. He served less than four years before being paroled. After the verdict was announced the media and the public were outraged. Judge Katz deflected the blame by throwing the jury under the bus.<br /><br />Dominique's father, the author Dominck Dunne, wrote a magazine piece for Vanity Fair detailing his family's experience. This is rather lengthy but well worth the read: http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/archive/1984/03/dunne198403Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-66097534804633776892014-01-07T11:30:13.608-05:002014-01-07T11:30:13.608-05:00Thanks Chris!
We all stared, transfixed. At that ...Thanks Chris!<br /><br /><i>We all stared, transfixed. At that moment, Grogan could have killed him. The judge's face was ashen; his hands shook. Before the bailiff could help, the judge looked at Grogan for reassurance and said in a quivering voice, as if to convince himself "Steve doesn't mean anything by it." Grogan, looking up at the judge and still smiling, gently replied: "It's okay, Joe, I know you're just trying to be fair. . . you'll do the right thing." From that moment on, the judge began to unravel. All he wanted was to get out of trying this case. The only way he could do that was to declare a mistrial. You will probably not be surprised that he found a way to do precisely that.</i><br /><br />That is so creepy. It's amazing that the Family could invoke that much fear in judges & attorneys. I'm surprised they didn't just arrest them on the sidewalk for creating a disturbance and making threats.katie8753https://www.blogger.com/profile/00353364961453501063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6001083595175224919.post-11909135213369206492014-01-07T07:46:05.215-05:002014-01-07T07:46:05.215-05:00Apologies for the slap-dash posting.
It was scann...Apologies for the slap-dash posting.<br /><br />It was scanned in, most of the text was corrected but at least one howler was missed. When Brenda McCann is testifiying and Weedman makes a tactical mistake; it should read "whole conversation" and not "whore conversation".Chris Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14711422705919582549noreply@blogger.com