Saturday, March 16, 2019

The Death Penalty Debate Rages On...


Charles Manson, Rose Bird, Caryl Chessman and California’s wrenching death penalty debate

Full Story Here:
Charles Manson, Rose Bird, Caryl Chessman and CaliforniaĆ¢€™s wrenching death penalty debate







22 comments:

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Submitted by Lee.
Thank You Lee.

Full article here:

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-california-death-penalty-history-20190316-story.html

sunset77 said...

The Manson case I why I've never supported the death penalty. If anyone ever deserved to be executed, it was Charles "Tex" Watson. Multiple stabbing murders, including a pregnant woman. Nevertheless, he's still sitting in prison to this day, fathered 4 children in prison and has his own website, I guess maintained by his family. Some people get executed, while others don't, it's not "fair" or "justice" at all.

Also, innocent people are found in prison fairly often, proven innocent by DNA. While being innocent and sent to prison is bad enough, there is no recourse at all if they are executed.

Dilligaf said...

Sunset, if I may, when California overturned the DP in Anderson (1972), the only legal mechanism in place to address this was to commute all death sentences to Life Wih. There is no doubt that Watson, as well as many others were deserving of the imposition of sentence, but even when Californians voted to create the sentence of the DP a few years later, constitutional protections precluded the re-imposition of the original sentence.

In Re innocent people being innocent, post Furman, there has not been a single case for n which a person was executed and then subsequently been shown legally innocent. The number of appeals, and review of a case, makes it extremely difficult for that to happen. Of course, the flip side is that people who have been released are a reflection of how the system does work. However, please consider that not all sentences hat are overturned are a result of the defendant being innocent. Many times, sentences are overturned turned as a result of procedural errors, meaning that people who were factually guilty got away with it. That is when the “fairness” pendulum swings both ways. Yes, there are times when a person is re-tried, but many times not, as a result of evidentiary issues, witnesses dying, etc. The DP, in my humble opinion, is fair, just, unbiased, and, effective in today’s society. Have a great day!

beauders said...

All a death penalty opponent needs to do is listen to the recordings made by Lawrence Bittaker and his crime partner Ray Norris torturing their teenage victims and they will change their minds and if not imagine it is your daughter doing the screaming and again you will change your mind in at least Bittaker's case. I believe if the Pope heard these tapes he would want Bittaker put to death. Of course we are running out of time with Bittaker he's going to die an old man on Death Row and never receive the execution he deserves.

katie8753 said...

Scott Peterson deserves to be executed. He killed his wife and unborn child just to date some girl that he met.

He could have just divorced her, but that was more trouble than killing her.

beauders said...

Well at least he didn't get away with it and I bet he thought he would.

katie8753 said...

Yeah he definitely thought he would get away with it Beauders. He's a psychopath. Psychopaths don't think normally. They don't think about their actions, they only think about what might be otherwise.

OJ Simpson should have gotten the death penalty, but he didn't even get a guilty verdict. That's another case to argue! We could talk about that for years.

Okay back to the Manson Family. I find it irksome that a jury spent 8 months of their lives determining if the Manson Family was (1) guilty or (2) if they should get the death penalty.

That jury decided to give the death penalty to the Manson, Atkins, Krenwinkle & Horseteeth. As well as Watson in a later trial.

The fact that the state of California overruled that in 1972 was a slap in the face of those juries.

Unfortunately, the families of the victims have had to deal with this every few years to keep them from getting out.

I don't know why California keeps doing this. Does life mean nothing in that state?

Dilligaf said...

Anymore, life means nothing. Does not matter if it is in death as a victim, abortion, or in prison. Since the executive order by the governor, you are already seeing liberals saying that even LWOP is too severe a sentence. What the court gives us, the legislature can take away, regardless of what even the voters approve.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Dill. And then you have sanctuary cities, which protects the criminal illegal aliens. Life without rules is chaos.

beauders said...

Grim I am watching the eight hour documentary on the case of missing child Maddie McCann on Netflix. I am wondering what do you think happened to the child?

grimtraveller said...

beauders said...

I am wondering what do you think happened to the child?

It's impossible to say.
She could have been kidnapped as is supposed. For decades, it was quite normal practice for English couples to leave their young children asleep while they went out to eat while on holiday. There was an implicit assumption that "people" would be keeping their eyes open and any funny stuff that looked to be going on would be challenged.
At the same time, in more recent times, we've had quite a few incidences here where a child has disappeared or been murdered and the parents or grandparents have come out on national news making tearful pleas for the child to be returned and it then transpires that they were in fact responsible for the disappearance or murder. So that has made the McCann case all the harder to guage or have an opinion about.
Having said that, I don't think any of us do have a right to an opinion. None of us were there, none of us know the McCanns and it's a live case unlike, say, the Manson, OJ or JFK case where all the data is in {or at least as far as is known} and has been discussed and debated endlessly and where various opinions can be drawn from the differing elements.

Mario George Nitrini 111 said...

No grimtraveller,
ALL the data relating to
The OJ Simpson Case is NOT in,
&
ALL the data relating to
The Charles Manson Case is NOT in.

The OJ Simpson Case is
STILL AN OPEN CASE,
and there are MANY "questions" surrounding happenings when
The Charles Manson Family were living at SPAHN RANCH.

Mario George Nitrini 111
-------
The OJ Simpson Case

beauders said...

Thanks Grim for the response personally from what I know and assuming the parents are being honest at best she is being raised by someone else and at worst she ended up in the sex trade. If anyone has an interest in this case the documentary on Netflix is very good.

beauders said...

I have an interest in the McCann case because it is similar to a case that happened to a little girl I went to school with. Anna was a kindergartener that lived about a mile from my family when I was in the third grade. One January day in 1973 Anna came home as usual and went out to play after a short time her mother realized she was not making her usual play noise such as talking to their cat. Her mother went to look for her and could not find her. She called the Half Moon Bay, California police and they responded with a questioning and search. There was a creek on the property and the police thought she may have fell in it and drowned. After several divers searched the creek and found nothing, they began to question her natural father, a doctor in San Francisco who was schizophrenic and under the influence of a strange older con man. The mother had left her marriage to the doctor because of this man's influence and had been in a long term relationship with another man who Anna considered her father. Nothing came from the investigation and Anna has never been found. It's been almost 47 years Anna's mother still lives close by in Moss Beach a town a few miles down the coast from Half Moon Bay. She hasn't given up looking for Anna and has wrote a book titled "Searching For Anna." Part of her thinks Anna lives close by and was raised by another family. Hopefully that is what happened but I doubt it. The property that Anna's family lived on was very rural, people didn't go out that far in the country unless they had a reason to be there and strangers were noticed. My parents had guns around our property because it was so rural and it would take the police at least twenty to thirty minutes to get to us. This case is covered on webslueths and has some videos on youtube about her. Her name is Anna Waters for those interested.

grimtraveller said...

Mario George Nitrini 111 said...

No grimtraveller,
ALL the data relating to
The OJ Simpson Case is NOT in,
&
ALL the data relating to
The Charles Manson Case is NOT in.

The OJ Simpson Case is
STILL AN OPEN CASE,
and there are MANY "questions" surrounding happenings when
The Charles Manson Family were living at SPAHN RANCH


I think you deliberately missed my point there Mario. I think you also missed the little part I put in brackets after what I said about the data being in.

Mario George Nitrini 111 said...

I really didn't deliberately miss your point grimtraveller.
I just read it wrong. My bad.

And you're right Grim,
(I really hate saying that....lol)
I didn't interpret your "brackets" correctly.

Bottom line in
The OJ Simpson Case?
&
The Charles Manson Case?
Believe me Grim,
ALL THE DATA IS NOT IN.....

Mario George Nitrini 111
------
The OJ Simpson Case

katie8753 said...

Hi Mario!

Mario George Nitrini 111 said...

Hi Ms Katie.
Hope you're feeling well & things are going smoothly for you.

And thank you for letting me comment on yours & LynyrdSkynyrdBand's blog.


Mario George Nitrini 111
------
The OJ Simpson Case

katie8753 said...

Oh things are going okay. Thanks for asking! I apologize for the comment moderation that slows down your comments, but we've had a troublemaker on here bothering folks, so it's necessary. I'll keep an eye out to make sure your comments are posted in a timely manner!

Good to see you!!! :)

Mario George Nitrini 111 said...

Glad you're doing ok Ms Katie.

Oh yeah, I know who you're talking about (troublemaker).
The moderation is not a problem for me.
Always seems to be be 1 or 2 in the crowd. (Troublemakers)

I read your blog daily. I definitely have a vested interest in The Charles Manson Case.
Thanks Ms Katie.

Mario George Nitrini 111
-------
The OJ Simpson Case

katie8753 said...

Thanks Darlin'!

Doug said...



http://charleyproject.org/case/anna-christian-waters