Saturday, December 9, 2017

Charles Manson’s remains could become a shrine, some fear

 

SACRAMENTO, Calif. — The body of murder mastermind Charles Manson was barely cold when competing bids began for his remains and belongings among relatives and longtime associates.

Their plans have not been divulged, but some fear they might create a shrine for those who are still fascinated by the man behind the bizarre celebrity slayings that terrorized Los Angeles nearly a half-century ago.

The value of Manson’s belongings — said to include music, artwork, writings and at least two guitars — is unclear. But probate attorneys said the real value of his estate could be in controlling the use of his image and the power to authorize any biographies or documentaries.

“It’s going to be a food fight,” said probate attorney Adam Streisand, who is not involved in the Manson case but was involved with Michael Jackson’s estate and currently is representing the estate of Hugh Hefner.

“You have to sort of worry about creating a monument that becomes a focal point for people to exercise their extremist views,” he said.

At the very least, it seems, Manson devotees want to prevent his ashes from being anonymously interred with other indigent inmates.

One person seeking control of Manson’s estate is his purported grandson, Jason Freeman, who flew into California with a documentary film crew after Manson died last month.

His effort is challenged by Manson associate Michael Channels, who exchanged letters and visited the killer in prison. Channels has filed a two-page will in court dated Valentine’s Day 2002 that purportedly leaves everything to him.

Freeman’s attorney, Dale Kiken, said there might be a third claim by Los Angeles musician Matthew Roberts, who has described himself as Manson’s son. His bid is backed by Ben Gurecki, who has done YouTube videos focused on Manson and told several media outlets that he obtained a January 2017 will from Manson naming Roberts as his heir.

Kiken said prison officials told him Manson left no will and he disputes the validity of the ones that have surfaced.

Kiken provided The Associated Press with a copy of a 1986 Ohio court ruling saying Freeman is the son of Charles Manson Jr., and a 1993 Colorado death certificate showing Manson Jr. as the son of Charles Manson and his first wife, Rosalie Willis.

Manson, 83, died Nov. 19 of natural causes after spending decades in prison for orchestrating the 1969 killings of pregnant actress Sharon Tate and eight other people. Prosecutors said the slayings were intended to trigger an apocalyptic race war.

Tate’s sister, Debra, fears those seeking control of Manson’s remains and belongings hope to profit from his dark legacy.

“Whatever he was in life, in death he deserves dignity,” she said, asserting that the only way to ensure Manson is undisturbed is to have his body cremated and placed at an undisclosed site.

Freeman said he is a man of faith who wants to have his grandfather cremated and his ashes properly placed.

“It won’t be in the media, it will be a private family matter from that point,” he said, adding that he won’t disclose his plans until the release of his planned documentary.

“We’ve got some plans and I’d like to see this ship take flight,” he said.

Freeman, a Florida resident, and his film crew traveled last week to Corcoran State Prison, where Manson was housed in a special protective cell because of his notoriety. Freeman was accompanied by Manson associate John Michael Jones, who said he wants to ensure “that Mr. Manson’s death wasn’t turned into a spectacle like his life was.”

Joe Townley, chief operating officer and executive producer of MY-Entertainment, said the company has been filming for about six months.

At one point, Freeman requested $3,000 each time the AP published an article about him, to provide “assistance in my time of hardship being away from my family and taking care of my grandfather.” He dropped the request after it was refused.

Freeman said he was largely protected growing up when his mother and grandmother “kept the Manson name away from my doorstep.”

However, he long blamed Manson for his father’s suicide until he came to believe the real cause was the media pressure from being Manson’s son.

He exchanged letters and phone calls with his imprisoned grandfather in recent years, and said he is determined to be present for his own children to break the cycle of fatherless upbringings that he believes doomed both his father and grandfather.

“It was almost as if he had a shield in front of his heart and I tried to share personal stuff with him about my father and about my children so he could understand that in my lifetime I brought the family tree full circle,” Freeman said of Manson.

Gurecki and Roberts did not return repeated telephone messages, and Channels could not be reached despite repeated telephone calls.

https://nypost.com/2017/12/06/charles-mansons-remains-could-become-a-shrine-some-fear/

30 comments:

katie8753 said...

Nobody has anything to say. Amazing! I guess that means ole' Charlie can shuffle off to buffalo and nobody cares.

Well I don't. And I don't reckon anyone else cares. HA HA.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Exactly what I was thinking...

Nothing says "no one gives a shit, about Charlie's remains", like zero comments.

Short of "mummification" (LOL), how long can you keep a dead body preserved anyway?

This has to be some kind of record.

katie8753 said...

Can you imagine getting possession of a body that's been "on ice" for weeks. YUCKKKKK!

katie8753 said...

Once permission is given to someone to pick a body up, do they deliver it or do you have to go get it? How does that work? Do you stuff it in your trunk?

Bobby said...

Speaking off the cuff, I thought someone had like 10 days to claim the body & such. I image that with several people who's motive's could be questioned as to having rights to Manson's name that Lawyers are involved and holding up the process. Much like say Jimmy Hendrick's estate with a sister , brother , father , someone makes a ton a money having the rights to his name for merchandise & music sales. I could have it all wrong but I think that's the hold up. Rights to manson's estate or is is it writes or wrights ? proper English escapes me.

I should have invested in Manson instead of Enron and Beta tape.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Bobby but I don't think Manson's estate is going to be worth much. We'll see what happens.

That guy didn't do anything to earn any love from anyone. He had children that he could have loved, but he didn't. What a waste of many lives, including his murder victims.

Bobby said...

Katie, I hope you are right, it would be a damn shame.

starviego said...

katie8753 said...
"Once permission is given to someone to pick a body up, do they deliver it or do you have to go get it? How does that work? Do you stuff it in your trunk?"

It's supposed to be BYOBB* event.

*'Bring your own body bag'

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

LOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

All I keep visualizing is "Clark Griswold" (aka Chevy Chase) of the famous "Vacation" movies, driving cross-country with "Aunt Edna" strapped to the roof of the family station wagon. LOL

St Circumstance said...

I wonder if Marlise still reads this blog? Hmmmm.....

Anyhow

Charlie is dead as you all know by now lol So, I am fully retiring from my, what has been for the last few years only a part-time, job of giving a shit and writing about him. One of my favorite people in the history of the TLB community felt it was important for me to acknowledge my time and relationship with this blog. I am at airport, on my way to paradise and will spend one final second doing so. Then- I swear on all that is holy- I will not respond to- nor read any comments here or anywhere else on TLB sites any time in the immediate future... Bobby- This is for you ;)

L/S is a very good guy. Funny, smart and fair- and was very kind to allow me to post on this site. I really enjoyed engaging with you and that's no shit. At one time, you were among my one or two favorites. I know you don't care, but I am not patronizing.

Also, when I was very new to the blogs and feeling myself out lol- He out argued me and put me in my place more than once, and I have tried over the years to point that out to his credit.

I also tried my very best to defend and -befriend Katie who I know was a very important part of his blog. Sometimes that wasnt easy, but Katie was always worth it to me lol- In other words, I was not always perfect, but I did my best for L/S when and how I could...

Then towards the end of the Evil liz days- I shared personal, embarrassing information about Liz with L/S in what I asked and thought to be a confidential exchange. Stuff only two other people knew. The other one besides me- definitely did not talk to Brian Davis. Liz Definitely did not tell Brian Davis. Brian Davis said the exact quote on his radio show three days later.

Nobody gives a shit about Evilliz any more nor should they. But I never forgot.

Happy Holidays to all of you and no hard feelings. Life is too short to hold grudges about a murder case over 40 years old- or a simple choice of where to make your points about it :) I did what I thought was best in an online world where it is impossible to figure out who to be loyal to, or who you can really trust. We are all strangers lol End of the day- we all ended up o.k. We all rock on.

If I wronged anyone - it wasn't my intention. If I was wronged- I am not mad. I just wanna be friends. Coors-lights on me ... See ya when I see Ya

- Your very favorite Saint

katie8753 said...

St. Circumstance, what are you talking about? I'm mystified! You haven't been on this blog in years! And for you to say you won't look at the responses on this blog is just plain silly. You're probably looking at it right now!

I know you defended me several times, and I appreciate that. How many years ago was that?

You've been a TLB blogger for more years than I have, and during all those years I know that people have respected your opinion on this case. I'm not going to name names.

I don't know how anyone else feels about EviLiz, but I've got nothing against her. She was always nice to me, as far as I know.

You've given this "Shakespearean Soliloquy" that you are leaving TLB so many times I can't count them. Well, goodbye again Columbus! Take care! And make sure you take pictures of Casey Anthony's parents again on your "cruise". LOL.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Saint said:

"Then towards the end of the Evil liz days- I shared personal, embarrassing information about Liz with L/S in what I asked and thought to be a confidential exchange. Stuff only two other people knew. The other one besides me- definitely did not talk to Brian Davis. Liz Definitely did not tell Brian Davis. Brian Davis said the exact quote on his radio show three days later.

Nobody gives a shit about Evilliz any more nor should they. But I never forgot."




You owe me an apology, for such a ridiculous and hurtful accusation.

I have NEVER revealed anything, that we EVER discussed in confidence.

And believe me, if I WAS the dishonest person you're accusing me of being... your TLB career would have been completely finished 5 years ago.

Years ago, you would email me frequently, and cry on my shoulder (at great length).

You would go on, and on, and on, about how ColScott was a complete asshole, because he was constantly picking on you... and how Matt never showed you enough love or respect.

On several occasions, you even spoke of "opening your own blog" to defend yourself against those guys (Colscott and Matt) "on an even playing field".

I never breathed a WORD to either of those guys, about your lengthy diatribe emails.
You can double-check that, with BOTH of them!

And the KICKER to this whole story, is that you jumped right into bed with both of them, after crucifying them privately.
Heck... you're STILL kissing the Colonel's ass.

The fact is Saint, you're the biggest two-faced hypocrite the TLB community has ever seen. You have no loyalty to anyone. You go wherever the grass is greenest, at any given time. I've never revealed that fact to anyone, but if you're gonna waltz in here and call me out, then I'm gonna defend myself.

As I said,:
If it was my "MO" to reveal confidential information (to hurt and embarrass you), your career in the TLB world, would have been finished years ago. That was NEVER my "MO", or my intent.

===============================================

As for myself:
Yes... I've done some online and offline gossiping through the years... everyone has.
But, I've NEVER done anything vicious, or gone out of my way, to embarrass anyone publicly. For you to insinuate such a thing, is an outright lie.

Speak to Brian Davis. I'm sure he'll confirm my story. I NEVER went to Brian Davis with any secret "Evil Liz" information. You can take that to the bank!

================================================

I never revealed a WORD of our email conversations before, because:

#1) That's not the kind of person, that I am.

#2) I always liked you. I didn't feel it was necessary to ruin your TLB fun, over some stupid gossip. I was actually very happy for you, when you were fully accepted "into the fold" on Matt's website, because despite your constant belly-aching (about him), I knew "Mansonblog", was where you REALLY wanted to be.

I've always liked you Saint. But, you definitely owe me a sincere apology for posting such a spurious accusation on my blog.

And please... speak to Brian Davis. I never fed Brian any information about Evil Liz. Brian has his own contacts. He doesn't use me, as an informant, and he never has...

Merry Christmas.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Damn...

That was completely out of left field.

I mind my own business over here, and I never bother anyone.

Saint walks in (out of nowhere), and calls me out, for something I never did 5 years ago???

It's like the Twilight Zone.

I honestly have no idea, what the heck he's referring to... zero.

I can count the things that I know about "Evil Liz" on one finger.
I never really had a major beef with Liz, either.
We had a "blog rivalry", but I never wished the woman any harm.

WTF???

This is what blows my mind, about this situation:
There are people online, who have mistreated Saint Circumstance REPEATEDLY through the years... but yet, he feels the need to set the record straight with ME, on his last day??? ME?? Really??

I'm the TLB "bad guy" that he has to have a "final word" with, before he goes?
Really???

Fuck...
I've been nothing but nice to that guy, from day ONE.

Go figure.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Honestly...

I regret that I even bothered to respond to such nonsense.

Bobby said...

My fault LS. I should have let him write his blog history and kept quite. I replied to it and didn't expect it to turn out like this. Sorryou,
Bob.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Bob,

It's all good. You did nothing wrong. I'm sure your heart was in the right place.

As for myself, I've always been fair and straight with SaintC, so my conscience is clear.

The irony of this whole thing, is that it was someone from her own blog, who was revealing Liz's personal business. They had a "mole" over there (I think his name was Shawn or Sean?), who circulated links to all kinds of old news articles and personal emails, which painted Liz in a very bad light. In short, it was old police logs, newspaper stories, personal emails, and such. By the end, most of Liz's business was made public... and believe me, NONE of that stuff was ever posted here. And trust me, none of that research ever originated here, either.

If SaintC really believes that he (and one other person), were the ONLY people privy to Liz's personal business (at that time), then he's living in a bubble. Like I said... a jerk was sending tons of information to everyone. Moreover... Liz had lots of friends, and communicated with dozens of people on a regular basis. She was operating a blog. Is SaintC really pompous enough, to believe that HE was Liz's ONLY "confidant" at that time? C'mon... let's get real.

This is precisely why, I don't visit other websites any more.
It's just not worth the headaches.

SaintC could have done the right thing, and simply posted a heartfelt "goodbye" and "thank you" in here, and went on his way.
Instead, he's digging-up old bones, and making false accusations.

Ridiculous...

Don't sweat it Bob.
The entire thing, is just nonsense.

katie8753 said...

I can't imagine why St. would say that. Bizarre!

This guy has quit so many times, we should call anyone who announces they're leaving the TLB blog world a "Cirumstance-ist".

Every single time he announces he's leaving, he always expresses remorse for something, uplifting words for those remaining to try to get along, and hope for the future of these TLB sites.

In the past, he has cited his reasons for leaving, i.e., my wife left me, I lost my job, my family thinks I'm crazy and I'm giving away all my collectibles, etc, etc.

And every time he leaves the TLB arena, he always says he's "taking a cruise". LOL. That guy takes more cruises than Castro did!

And every time he leaves...he always comes back! See ya later St.! It's been real.

Sweet Good night...parting is such sweet sorrow...that I shall say goodnight 'til it be morrow...". HA HA HA HA!

starship said...

To everyone out there, I just want to say: Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! Let's talk some more in 2018.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Starship! Merry Christmas to you!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Merry Christmas Starship!

Mrstormsurge said...

Merry Christmas to everyone here!!!!

You all are great people!!!

katie8753 said...

Merry Christmas Stormy!!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Merry Christmas Stormsurge!
You ROCK Brother!!!!

matt prokes said...

Hey I haven't been on here in a few years but I was listening to the star city radio show tonight and Brian was talking about this thread.
Just wanted to throw in my two cents on the subject....in my experience Lynyrd has always been a stand up guy and wouldn't go around blabbing stuff like that.
Hope you all are doing well,happy holidays!

katie8753 said...

Thanks Matt, happy holidays to you!!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Matt,

Thanks for your vote of confidence.
The feeling is mutual, you've always been a man of your word, and a quality person.

I hope you're doing well.
Happy New Year!

I hope to see more of you in 2018.

matt prokes said...

L/S I'm out of the loop about whos fighting with who these days on these blogs etc.but Brian did say you were the most trustworthy person hes dealt with in the tlb world(or words to that effect).

A friend of mine passed away a few years back...his family didn't have the cash for a funeral-they eventually raised it via gofundme or one of those kind of things-so they kept his body on ice for at least two weeks.The funeral was open casket.
You know how you go to a funeral and think 'boy he looks like hes sleeping'?
Well this wasn't like that....i've never seen a deader looking body in my life.
He looked kind of freezer burned and I don't say that to be funny.
Manson was Manson but he deserves to have this stuff taken care of and not turned into a sideshow.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Matt said:
"L/S I'm out of the loop about whos fighting with who these days on these blogs etc.but Brian did say you were the most trustworthy person hes dealt with in the tlb world(or words to that effect)."

I'm glad to hear that.
Brian's word is good with me, as well.
Any time I've ever communicated with Brian, he's always told me the truth, and he's always kept his word.

That's why I told St. Circumstance to speak with Brian directly, because I knew Brian would tell him the truth.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Matt said:
"A friend of mine passed away a few years back...his family didn't have the cash for a funeral-they eventually raised it via gofundme or one of those kind of things-so they kept his body on ice for at least two weeks.The funeral was open casket.
You know how you go to a funeral and think 'boy he looks like hes sleeping'?
Well this wasn't like that....i've never seen a deader looking body in my life.
He looked kind of freezer burned and I don't say that to be funny.
Manson was Manson but he deserves to have this stuff taken care of and not turned into a sideshow."


I agree.
Whatever Manson was during his life, he deserves fair treatment after death.
What the courts should have done, was allow Manson's remains to be cremated within 10 days of his death... and deal with the legal dilemma of who will inherit his ashes afterwards.
Preserving a body for over a month, is just not normal.