Saturday, October 28, 2017

Member of the Family, by Dianne Lake

This is my review of the book.  I don't know how good this review is, but you get what you pay for.  LOL.  If I've been too vague on some things, or skipped over anything of interest, let me know in the comment section and I'll look it up.
  
The first half of the book is about Dianne’s childhood & growing up years before she met Manson & the gang.  It starts out pretty normal.  She had a younger brother & sister and parents who were at that time, pretty average.  Her Dad painted houses for a living and her mom was a home-maker.  She was evidently pretty close to her mom in her younger years, always cooking, cleaning & sewing like her mom.

Then her father got bitten by the “hippy bug” and wanted to move to California.  Her mother was against it at first, but evidently relented.  They traded their 2-story house for a trailer and took off.  Didn’t get far though.  The trailer broke down and they didn’t even make it out of Minnesota.

So, they tried to make a go of it where they were and the Dad finally took off for California and left them.  After a couple of years, the Dad contacted them.  He was living in CA and wanted them to join him.  So they did.

The next few years is just talking about how they went from commune to commune and got more and more “hippy-ish” by the minute and Dianne was subjected to all kinds of pervs.

They ended up at the Hog Farm and the owners of that fine establishment finally told Dianne that she couldn’t stay there because she was underage and a liability, of all things.  This was after she got caught doing the horizontal mamba. 


Dianne suffered at the hands of multiple perverts, and at the end of her book, Dianne says that she doesn’t blame her parents for what happened to her, but I think it was totally irresponsible of them not to take care of her until she was an adult.  They were acting like children instead of parents.  Just my opinion.

She left the Hog Farm with a couple who took her to The Spiral Staircase and her eventual introduction to Manson.  She says when she walked in a red-haired girl kept saying “Dianne is here”!  It turned out to be Squeaky.  Of course when she met Charlie, he did his little impy goon act plus he told her she was pretty, etc., etc. and she fell for him, just like all the other girls say when they first met him.  He didn’t show his “crazy side” until later.

She also met Pat there.  In the book, she speaks highly of Squeaky, Pat & Gypsy.  She immediately disliked Mary, Sandy, Susan & Leslie.  I found that interesting.  In fact, she talks glowingly about Pat & Squeaky until the end of her time with them, when she found out Pat was involved in murder and when she showed up to testify for the trial and Squeaky made a sarcastic remark.

She mentions that often times, Charlie would start singing and draw a crowd, then he would start on his mumbo jumbo about life.  He would pick out a certain target in the crowd, then nod to one of the girls or guys, who would then go sit by that person and start trying to recruit them with the rest of the mumbo jumbo.

She also mentions that Charlie is the one who came up with most of their fake ID names.  I had always wondered if he did that.  He named her Dianne Bluestein, a married lady of 20, to hide the fact that she was a minor so he wouldn't get in trouble.  She says her fake husband was a guy named “Bruce”, and his fake name was John Bluestein.  I don’t think it was Bruce Davis.

She says they went to Harold True’s house and Charlie told her to sleep with Harold and she didn’t want to because he was fat and he scared her.  She started bawling and Charlie started to hit her, then softened and offered her candy when it was over.

She talks about their time with Dennis Wilson and how it started out so good but ended so badly when Charlie had the recording session at Brian Wilson’s house and he got mad at them because they were giving him advice, and supposedly pulled a knife on them.  End of relationship with Dennis.

She talks about multiple beatings from Charlie & how he even raped her.

She mentions Tex briefly before the murders.  In fact, she doesn’t really talk much about him at all in the book.  She mentions Clem once, and says “what he lacked in brains he made up for in his endowment”. 

She talks about going to Myers & Barker Ranches and also the need for the family to get money to make the permanent move.

She first mentions Gary Hinman when she said that on one of the many times Charlie tried to get rid of her, he took her to Gary’s house.  I think this was a few months before Gary was killed.  She talks lovingly about Gary, how nice he was, and how into Buddhism he was.

She also states her opinion on Gary’s murder.  She thinks Bobby & the girls went there strictly to get money, not for reimbursement for bad drugs.  I agree with her on that one.

She says that Tex told her about the murders when they were at Olancha. 

She says that the morning after the LaBianca murders, she saw Leslie come into the room around 7am and she was trying to start a fire.  She says that Leslie burned some clothing , some credit cards,  a purse & a rope and when someone drove up, she took the rope out of the fire and tried to put it out.  Not sure what the rope signified.  She said she helped Leslie, not knowing where Leslie had been or what she had done.  When Tex told her what happened, she figured out that Leslie was burning evidence of her crime, and that made her sick.

She says that at some point, Leslie, Pat & Susan started talking about the murders.  She said that Leslie said “the woman” she stabbed was still warm and said stabbing was fun.  Susan talked about “saving the baby” while she was stabbing Sharon Tate.  Susan also talked about killing Hinman and sounded “put out” that Gary just wouldn’t die quick enough.  She says Pat talked about tackling a woman then stabbing her to death.

She says she wasn’t that surprised that Susan & Leslie would do such a thing, but she was really surprised at Pat for doing that.  From everything she says about Pat from the time she met her, it seems to go against the kind of person Pat was.  That shows how strong Charlie’s control over her was.

She was finally spared from this life of misery when she, along with other family members, were arrested in October and she was put in a Hospital because she was underage, which got her completely away from the other girls and out of their control, and helped her heal up to think normally again. 

She talks about testifying at the trial and how difficult it was because she was afraid of what Charlie might say or do, and admitting on the witness stand that she still loved Charlie, which pissed him off. She was relieved when they were all found guilty.  She knew she could finally get on with her life.   

There are a few things in her book that I disagree with or question, or at least I’ve read these in the past from various sources that are different:

She says that Nancy  Pittman introduced Deidre Lansbury to the family.  I thought it was the other way around.  Also, she says that Deidre did not have a note from her mother saying she could hang out with the Family.  I’ve read that she did have a note.

She says that Dennis Wilson picked Patty & Ella up hitchhiking, they told him about Charlie, and he drove them to Spahn’s Ranch to meet Charlie.  I’ve always heard he took the girls to his house, left the house for a while and when he got home, Charlie & more girls were there.  That’s when he first met Charlie.  Then Charlie kissed his feet or something.

She says that when Charlie went to Lotspoppa’s he took TJ & Tex.  I thought he just took TJ.

She says that Charlie found out about Bobby being arrested on August 5.  I thought Bobby was arrested on August 6 & Charlie found out August 8.

128 comments:

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Good review Katie, thank you.

It's more-or-less, what I expected...

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Again i hate to sound repetitive but i just dont believe 90 percent of what she says, shes giving too many conflicting stories that have been told by numerous people and she was just a 14 year old baby who knew nothing except being used as a fuck and suck toy who got bitch dlapped if she misbehaved just like kids should

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I have to wonder, what motivates a person to write such a book, after all these years?

Healing? Closure?

I can't imagine there's much money to be made (on this subject), at this point.

Sure, guys like SAG like to purport that another "piece of shit" is "cashing-in on Manson"... but I just don't buy it.

Yes, Vincent Bugliosi made a killing with "Helter Skelter".
His book is one of the best-selling books on "true crime" to date.

But...
Think of all those other (fairly obscure) books.

For instance, how much money did Marlin Marynick really make with his book "Charles Manson Now"?

The list goes on:
"Child of Satan, Child of God" by Atkins.
"Squeaky" by Jess Bravin.
"My Life with Charles Manson" by Paul Watkins
"The Long Prison Journey of Leslie Van Houten".

I bought William Zamora's book out of a bargain bin for $2.

I scored a first-edition hardback copy of "The Family" at a library sale for $3. (And some might say, that I overpaid) LOL

I wouldn't be surprised to learn, that some of these books actually LOSE money.

Dianne Lake got some nice marketing exposure, courtesy of "Dr. Phil" last week... but how many copies of her book will be selling 5 years from now? Or, even 3?

If someone could "solve the case" to everyone's satisfaction... and I mean, beyond any reasonable doubt... now THAT book (or movie) would make some money!!! $$
The good "Colonel", has his eye on that prize.

I mean, do the math. The guy's a movie producer. I highly doubt he's been working on this case for decades, just to make friends. LOL

Just my two cents...

katie8753 said...

Thanks Lynyrd. I was curious as to why Leslie was burning rope. And why she would grab it out of the fire?

Yeah I don't know if Dianne was just trying to make money, I don't know her personally. It seems funny that she would wait all this time to do it. But maybe she's reached the age where she doesn't care if the world knows about her involvement with the Manson family.

And how many people would actually buy these books? Probably just the handful that we have on TLB blogs that research and discuss the case. I'd say that percentage is pretty low. Maybe 5% of the populus???

I have to say, every time I've been to Barnes & Nobles to get a new release on a Manson-related book, they say they're still in the back in a box, and have to get a box cutter to get it out. I'm guessing there wasn't an 8am RUSH on it. LOL.

Just sayin'.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Or, to quote SAG directly:

"Another fame seeking cockroach crawls out from under their rock to get a piece of the "Manson family" money, shes full of shit"

Like I said... I just don't see it.

I'm not really sure, that I'd want to be connected to that type of "Fame" either...

katie8753 said...

Well Susan I can't blame people for wondering why she wrote this book and how true it is, but her depictions of Manson's cruelty ring true to me. I didn't put all that nonsense that was in the book in my review, frankly there's not enough room, but the way he beat women is pretty much substantiated by other female family members. Gypsy & Mary both say he beat them senseless.

A man who hits a woman is a coward. Period!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Katie said:
"And how many people would actually buy these books? Probably just the handful that we have on TLB blogs that research and discuss the case. I'd say that percentage is pretty low. Maybe 5% of the populus???"

5% of the populus??
No way.

You think 5% of American's have a TLB book at home, other than "Helter Skelter"?
I highly doubt it.
Maybe .25% (1/4 of a percent)

Some people in this "TLB bubble" are convinced that this "case" is still popular.
But short of "proving another motive", it's definitely not...

The average person on the street, doesn't even know who the fuck Dianne Lake is... Or Bruce Davis, or Steve Grogan... or any of the others, for that matter.

Poll 100 strangers, and ask them who Harold True is?
Good luck.
I bet only 2 out of 100 random people, would even know who he is... and that's a generous estimate.

They recognize the name "Manson", but they don't even know the basic details of the case.

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Even if they made 10k on those books which is a paltry sum its still 10 thousand more than they had, Lake is full of shit plain and simple, its a cash grab and pure sensationalism

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Like i said even if its 10k its still 10k more than her fucking broke worthless old ass had anyway

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

A couple years ago, I think Beauders gave us some hard numbers, regarding what these books usually make...

(If memory serves me correctly)

katie8753 said...

That's my point Lynyrd. If you even ask a guy on the street who Tex Watson is, he'd just shrug and stare.

We have some true TLB bloggers who are really interested in this case, but I would say that most of the world has moved on by now. Sure, they've got news reports about this book, but it's just to get viewers to tune in to something "new" on an old case that was weirder than any case ever to happen.

Weirder than Casey Anthony! News sells and makes money. Believe me, by tomorrow they won't mention Dianne ever again. Because frankly most people don't care. It peaks their interest for 3 minutes, then they move on to something else now.

katie8753 said...

I'd like to see the sales numbers on this book. Like I said, when I went to Barnes & Nobles, they had to get a box cutter and get it out of the stockroom, because they didn't even unload it yet. And that was about 4:00pm on the day of release. I got the feeling that I was the first person who asked for it.

katie8753 said...

Okay Susan, stop with the "Jew" stuff. Enough already! We're talking about Dianne Lake's book. I'm deleting that comment.

katie8753 said...

Susan it takes money to publish a book. It's not ALL profit! DUH!

katie8753 said...

I feel sorry for Dianne after reading what happened to her. We're the same age, and I didn't have ANY of that stuff happen to me. I loved growing up in the 60's. It was so much fun. I loved the music, the fashions, the new musical groups, the new TV shows, listening to my AM/FM transistor radio while lying in the sun, riding around with my friends laughing and going to various drive-ins and ordering malted-milks & fries. It was just so much fun.

I'm sorry that Dianne or any other child had to go thru all that hippy stuff. What a downer! That hippy stuff was supposed to be uplifting, but I've read so many stories that it was just another excuse for child molestation.

And there's no excuse for that.

Mario George Nitrini 111 said...

Thanks for the book review Ms Katie.
Ms Katie, LynyrdSkynyrdBand, and everyone:
Have you noticed that NO ONE from
The Manson Family will even remotely talk about certain people from a "Group" that frequented Spahn Ranch?
after all these years?
And certain "Things" that went on at Spahn Ranch while The Manson Family was there?
Business Dealings and More......
And, there are NO
"Statute of Limitations"
on certain felony crimes.
I know what I was told, but of course, it's hearsay, but, there are times a person can understand MORE if there is no talk about something(s), than if there was/is talk about something(s). And, I also have corroboration.....

And speaking of Col Scott/Don Murphy, I just wonder if Mr. Murphy knows/is aware about certain "Happenings" at
Spahn Ranch when The Manson Family lived there.
I will say this about
Col Scott/Don Murphy:
He has been very respectful and courteous, but yet firm to me, when replying to my comments.

Mario George Nitrini 111
------
The OJ Simpson Case

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

SAG said:
"Like i said even if its 10k its still 10k more than her fucking broke worthless old ass had anyway"


Why are you so angry?

==========================================================


SAG said:
"Again i hate to sound repetitive but i just dont believe 90 percent of what she says, shes giving too many conflicting stories that have been told by numerous people and she was just a 14 year old baby who knew nothing except being used as a fuck and suck toy who got bitch dlapped if she misbehaved just like kids should"


I don't think anyone here (or elsewhere) believes for a moment, that Dianne Lake was "calling the shots", or part of "the inner circle" (if there was one)... nor, does Dianne make such claims.

Dianne admitted right on the Dr. Phil show, that she didn't even know the Cielo/Waverly murders had taken place, until days after the fact.

As I said in a previous post, I don't think the purpose of her book, was to solve the case, or present a new motive.
It's a Memoir.
It's her own personal story.

A memoir is a collection of memories, both public or private, that took place in the subject's life.

Maybe some people would like to know, how a 14 year-old girl, could have ended-up in a situation like that... or, what it was like, to live through such a situation.
The book, is for those people.

The intent of the book, is not to retry the case.

You're right, she wasn't privy to every detail pertaining to the murders.
She was a very young kid, who was naive.
She was a pawn.

All of those things, are understood.

Also bear in mind... she was being fed drugs, and this was a very long time ago.
When people write a Memoir like this, they simply tell their personal story, as they remember it.
She's not relating the facts, as if she's back on the witness stand in court.

But let's not forget--- she was THERE.

She might not have been privy to every decision and detail of the murders... she might not remember a few things (due to the lapse in time, her young age at the time, and drug use)...

But hell...
I'm certainly sure she's capable of remembering her own life and experiences.

Which brings me back to my original question:
Why are you so angry???

This girl was a VICTIM.
Due to her parent's poor judgement, she was used as a "fuck and suck toy" (as you described it) at the age of 14.
She was a child, being abused by adult men.

How can you possibly exhibit animosity and bitterness towards a child, who was VICTIMIZED through no fault of her own?

Dianne was the victim.
Manson and the other men who abused her, were criminals.
Get the story straight.

EVEN IF, she wrote the book as a "money grab"... I say MORE POWER TO HER... she deserves the money!
She deserves every penny... and I hope she enjoys it.

The woman has a right to write a book, and people have a right to buy it.

If you're angry at life, direct your anger at the perpetrators of evil, not the victim's of it.

katie8753 said...

Well I'm gonna get to bed. Most all those girls were pretty in their own way, and ugly in another way.

I guess, to sum it up, they're all pretty ugly. LOL.

And Manson was just bat-shit ugly! No doubt about any of that!

Night y'all!

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Becayse i dont like opportunists

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Common sense tells you if yhey have cases of it they expect to sell it

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Manson is one of the biggest opportunists you'll ever find, and you don't seem offended by him...

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Of course be like all the social progressives of today and just delete what you dont want to hear, thats very enlightening

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

They said or did something to deserve it, violrnce doesnt arise from nowhere, wonen and children need to be shown discipline in order to behave sometimes

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Im angry at intellectually dishonest people who make up "facts" to sell books and make money and no one "fed her drugs" she took them all on her own

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

SAG said:
"They said or did something to deserve it, violrnce doesnt arise from nowhere, wonen and children need to be shown discipline in order to behave sometimes"

Seriously?
The victims said or did something, to deserve being victimized?

Dianne deserved to be used as a "fuck and suck toy" at the age of 14?

You are one whacked-out dude.

Do you, by any chance, live in an underground bunker?

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I'm heading to bed.

Unless I wake-up to take a piss, there won't be anyone around to post your comments until morning.

katie8753 said...

Chill out big Daddy. If you need bread, go to Clampetville! And groove to the sounds of Kenny G....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN2RnjFHmNY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oomf8zxPNew

katie8753 said...

Ha ha. Night y'all!!

sunset77 said...

Pretty good review Katie, far better than your usual rants. Keep in mind that not everything stated by former Manson family members is always true, they have been known to stretch the truth occasionally. I think the story about Manson meeting Dennis Wilson and Manson kissing his feet is pretty well established, I think Wilson himself said that. What day Beausolieil was arrested should be easy to find out from arrest records.

I think Dianne Lake has "hidden" for about the last 40 years, why she decided to write a book now, I don't know. Probably money was a part of it. Apparently, there aren't any tremendous revelations in it. I didn't know she helped Leslie burn evidence after the crime, I guess it's possible she didn't even know what she was doing.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Sunset! The part about helping Leslie burn stuff is new to me too. Especially the rope. I wonder why she was burning a rope.

Marliese said...

Katie, Thank you for the review. You put a lot into getting, reading, and reviewing the book, and I really appreciate it...I especially like your synopsis style of review...thanks. There is a lot I (eventually!) want to comment about, but quickly, a few things stand out...LVH burned items after the Labianca murders? Hasn't it been said...possibly by Catherine Share, but not certain on that source, that LVH also burned Shorty's stuff after his murder? She's just a little fire bug, isn't she? I think at the time it was also that just about everyone at the ranch within the Manson crew was somehow involved in Shorty's death, either participating, covering up, or being aware of it...so, she burned LaBianca evidence also?

And also, I'm not a bit surprised about her feelings on Pat Krenwinkle.

More later, busy day! But thanks, Katie, for your time, and Lynyrd...couldn't agree more with all...

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Beausoleil was arrested the 6th not the 5th, its public record

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Just curious are you a man or a woman? No offense intended im honestly just curious

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

I have to disagree there, with the exception of being very short Manson was not an ugly guy, matter of fact for the time if hed have been 8-10 inches taller i think most would have condidered him a handsome guy, he was slways very young looking for his age especially when he was clean shaven, put aside his persona and infamy and i think most would agree

katie8753 said...

Thanks Marliese. I knew that Leslie burned Rosemary's clothes that she stole from her closet when they got back to the ranch, but according to Diane, she also burned a purse, some credit cards and a rope. Not sure why she would burn a rope.

I don't remember about her burning Shorty's stuff, but I think they were all pretty much involved in hiding his murder, so maybe she did.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Susan, that's what I thought. And according to Sanders, Manson found out on the 8th.

katie8753 said...

Susan said:

Just curious are you a man or a woman? No offense intended im honestly just curious.


Who are you talking to?

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Lynard

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

I heard it was Susan that got rid of evidemce in Shortys death

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Far as i know Charlie was still on the road with Stephanie on the 5th snd 6th and didnt get back to Spahn until the 8th

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Shorty generally seemed to be regarded around the ranch as a sloppy old drunk and kibd if a lecherous older guy, seems to be Ruby was the only one around there who liked him

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

In the words of David Allen Coe:
"How big are men, where you come from?"

If you haven't figured-out my gender by now, then you're either very slow, or I've been way too lenient with you.

Keep pushing the envelope, and you won't be posting here at all.

And this... is coming from a guy who calls himself "Susan".

Welcome to 2017...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Sunset,

Always a pleasure having you...


Sunset said:
"I think Dianne Lake has "hidden" for about the last 40 years..."

I agree.

I'm not really sure WHY she decided to write the book at all... but the reason for her "timing" is pretty obvious.

These people have remained "hidden" for decades, because none of them wanted any public connection to this mess... and who would?

When you're young, you're looking for a job, a spouse, etc.... and you want a "clean" record.

At this point, Dianne is probably retired.
At a minimum, I highly doubt that she's out "pounding the pavement" looking for employment.

When you get older, and you're retired, the need to "hide your past" becomes much less necessary.

Ironically though, I think such a book would have sold many more copies in the early 1970's...

But again... who would want to go through their entire life, with this crap waving over their head, like a black flag?

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

You make it sound like i give a shit snowflake, stop being so sensitive, i prefaced my remark by saying "no offense", what's wrong mommy and daddy didnt hive you enough hugs growing up?

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Katie,

I'm done with this guy.

Just delete his comments on-sight.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

SAG just called Grim a "fucking idiot" a couple threads back.

In fact, he's managed to insult or offend every one of my bloggers, at least once.

He's a guy who believes that women and children should be abused by men, when they "deserve it".

He hates Jews and Blacks... and God only knows, who else.

I don't have the time, nor the inclination, to deal with such nonsense.

He's more trouble, than he's worth.

katie8753 said...

Okey doke Lynyrd. We tried giving him a chance to clean it up, but I guess that didn't work.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

For his final thought (like "Jerry Springer"), SAG writes:
"Typical Liberal behavior in 2017"


SAG thinks I'm a "Liberal".

Boy...
That just goes to show how fucking dumb this guy is...

The mere notion that I'm a Liberal, will send shock waves of laughter across the entire internet!

I'm a Conservative Republican. I'm into less government, less taxes, less government dependency, strong borders and strong military. I oppose abortion and same-sex marriage. I supported, and continue to support, Donald Trump.

The problem is Susan:
You're such a vile motherfucker, that people from BOTH sides of the aisle, think you suck... Liberals and Conservatives!

You justify abuse against women and children... and then... you have the balls, to ask me if I"M a man??? LMAO!
Wow, what a fucking joke.

Dude...
If you justify violence against women and children (for any reason), then you're the biggest dickless bitch there is...

Real men protect women and children!
That's their primary job!

The next time you're in the bathroom, take a look between your legs.
I'm sure you'll find a twat down there...

Good Day...

============================================

SAG's exact words:
"They said or did something to deserve it, violence doesn't arise from nowhere, women and children need to be shown discipline in order to behave sometimes".

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Katie,

I'm sure this guy is going to try to post under about 50 different names, in the coming weeks.

Just delete anything that looks like nonsense...

katie8753 said...

Okay will do...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

He's been booted from half the blogs and websites on the internet.

We gave him a fair shot.
We owe him nothing.

Actually, we gave him more than a fair shot.
We lost "Bobby" over his BS... and Bobby is worth 12 SAG's.

Someday he'll grow-up, and learn how to co-exist with people.
If not, we'll see him on the evening news, mowing-down complete strangers with a semi-automatic weapon.
Hopefully, it will be the former.

grimtraveller said...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...


Just my two cents...


And worth every penny.

grimtraveller said...

katie8753 said...

A man who hits a woman is a coward. Period!

Even if she's coming at him with a gun, knife or iron bar ?

katie8753 said...

Well if she's coming at him with a weapon with blood in her eyes, then I would say she's not a real woman and it's no holds barred.

Just kidding. I know women attack men and that makes her just a plain maniac, but in that case, a man should try to just get away,STAY AWAY from her and file charges on her.

Self defense is TOTALLY different from unwarranted physical abuse!!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

SAG posted for our recycle bin:

"LOL youre such an emotional pansy and a little girl, probably a shut in whis never been in a real life confrontstion in your life, fucking scared pussy ass fairy"


Let's do the math:

#1) You insult my bloggers with profanity and name-calling.

#2) You post hateful comments towards Blacks and Jews.

#3) You defend the actions of Charles Manson, Adolph Hitler, and the Nazis.

#4) You stated that women and children need to be disciplined with violence "when they deserve it".

#5) You accuse everyone who disagrees with you, of being a "Liberal Snowflake".

Now...

Put yourself in my position.

Why on God's green earth, would I be compelled to keep you around?

What redeeming qualities have you exhibited, which would make you an asset here?

What contributions have you made, which would offset the fact, that you're a complete liability?

Quite frankly dude, if I keep you around, in 6 months (or less)... You, Me and Katie, will be the only one's left in here.

If you think I'm booting you because I'm afraid of you, you're completely missing the big picture.

I'm trying to operate a blog here.

If you think I operate this blog, just to find nutjobs to argue with (in my spare time), then you're sadly mistaken.

If you're looking for someone to argue with you, on a daily basis (which seems to be the case), then you've come to the wrong place.

Yes...
I could trade insults with you for another month... but, what would be the point?

I already know where this road is going.
This road leads to you getting booted eventually... because guys like you, never change.
So, why prolong the agony?

This isn't my first rodeo.
I've been doing this for a very, very LONG time.

Instead of insulting me, maybe it's time to step back, take a look inside yourself, and figure-out WHY you don't seem to last anywhere.
Isn't that the REAL question here?

I've been blogging since the internet became popular, and I'm still welcome everywhere.
I've never been officially "booted" from any website... and it's not because I haven't given my opinion on everything from soup to nuts.
I've been very vocal on all topics... including Religion and Politics.

It's time to do some serious reflecting dude, instead of slinging more insults.

Maybe the world ISN'T wrong.
Did you ever think of that?

Peace...

grimtraveller said...

katie8753 said...

Self defense is TOTALLY different from unwarranted physical abuse!!

That's what I wanted to ascertain. I can see situations where a man might have to hit a woman. It'll never be abusive or the first move, but those situations do exist.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Okay...

SAG responded to my thoughtful post by:

#1) Telling me, that my blog isn't "the world".

#2) Denying his defense of Adolph Hitler.

#3) Accusing me of being a self-hating Jew.

#4) Doubling-down on his opinion that women and children need to be "disciplined".

=============================================

Let's start with #1, shall we?

I never said that my blog is "the world".
But hey... if I'm going to put work into the blog, why would I want an idiot coming-in here, and shitting all over it? The GOAL here, is to bring people IN... not drive people OUT.

#2) SAG DID defend Hitler.
In fact, he defended him in great detail.
I could have easily pulled those comments forward, but I deleted all of them, because Bobby was highly offended by them.
Bobby's father was a WWII hero.

#3) As for me being Jewish... I don't no where he comes-up with this stuff.
No, I'm not Jewish.

#4) The fact that he's sticking with his defense of abuse towards women and children is mind-blowing.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

And with that... I'm officially done.

It was real... it was fun... but, it wasn't real fun. LOL

katie8753 said...

Enough about that FAT HEAD! I gave him so many chances it's ridiculous. I got tired of seeing his comments and thinking to myself "okay, he didn't say this, but he did say that, should I post it?" ENOUGH!! He knew the rules and he didn't obey them. Life is full of rules. If you don't obey them, you're OUT!

Speaking of OUT, I'm watching the World Series, and the 'Stros are playing like 12 year olds. A ball bounced off your glove??? GET OUTTA HERE!! I played that good back in 1978 when I was playing left field in a softball game!

Come on Astros! You can do better than that!!!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

LOL

Yeah... errors in the Major's are hard to stomach, especially in a World Series game.

katie8753 said...

It's tied 4 to 4 now. Home run, base hit and tie goes to the runner!!!!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Those teams are evenly matched.

I watched game 2, and it was a nail-biter.

It was 3-3, in the ninth...

katie8753 said...

Go Houston Astros!!!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

In Game 2, it was 3-3 in the bottom of the ninth, 5-5 after ten innings, and the final score was 7-6 after eleven innings...

After that game, the series was tied at 1-1.

The series is currently tied 2-2.

And now, it's game 5... and the score is tied AGAIN!!

I've never seen such an even match-up.

katie8753 said...

Dodgers made a home run. They now lead 7 to 4. I can't believe I'm watching a major league game! And this is in Houston's stadium. But I'm not giving up on my Astros!

katie8753 said...

I think Dodgers are changing pitchers. Bases are loaded in the 5th inning.

katie8753 said...

The Dodgers switched to a right handed pitcher. Big mistake I hope.

katie8753 said...

Houston Won!!! 13 to 12!!! Night y'all!!!

sunset77 said...

I had never heard about burning a rope either. My guess would be she was burning anything they had laying around that might have connected them to the crime. A piece of rope was a pretty important part of the Cielo drive murders, they might have had more rope laying around and didn't want it found. Van Houten might have heard someone coming and want to put the fire out. A section of the rope might have been laying outside the fire and not burning, easy to grab and pull the rest out of the fire. Just a guess.

SurelyYouJest11 said...

Nice review Katie. As to the rope, perhaps they had taken some with them to the murders? Just a wild guess.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Surely! Nice to see you!!! Thanks Sunset! Good guesses on both your parts. It's just funny that the rope was mentioned in the Cielo murders, but not at the Waverly murders.

Maybe some rope was left in the car and Leslie wanted to be rid of it. I doubt if she knew rope was used at the Cielo murders. But maybe Pat mentioned it to her, don't know.

FrankM said...

Re: SAG, the clue is/was in the name. Anyone who wants to use a handle like that IMHO has definite problems, and the writing was probably on the wall from the start. S/he will no doubt return under another handle, so best to be prepared.

katie8753 said...

Frank!!! Good to see you!!! Don't worry, we will be vigilant to make sure he doesn't re-surface under another name. He'll be easy to spot.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

FRANK!!!!

It's always a pleasure having you on the blog!

I hope you're doing well.

My Best Regards Always...

LS

FrankM said...

Hi, Katie and Lynyrd. As you know I've pretty much stopped posting now. I'm not getting any younger, and to tell the truth I don't get a lot of fun out of some of the posts here (and elsewhere) these days. Well, y'all know the posts I'm talking about. But I still visit, and try to stay in touch - I've been doing these blogs a long time now. Stay well, and for now best wishes from Greenpoint.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Frank! You're a well respected blogger and we appreciate you coming around and giving your valued opinion.

Take care friend, and we miss you!!!

katie8753 said...

I'm watching the World Series again. Bottom of the 6th. Astros 1, Dodgers 0.

Got a ways to go....

katie8753 said...

Dodgers won. We'll go to Game 7. Which is predictable.

I can't watch the last game. Too hard!! LOL. Night y'all!

katie8753 said...

The Houston Astros WON the World Series!!!

TomG said...

How far away is the LaBianca residence from Dodger Stadium? Maybe if they had just gone to a ballgame this wouldn't have happened.
What the hell is the matter with people?

TomG said...

My own opinion is if you Los Angeles people kill one another to police your own, its your business. Don't throw the book at people who got caught up in that game. What says urine?

katie8753 said...

Huh? ZZZZZZZZZ.

TomG said...

Do you Mammie go ZZZZZZ?

FrankM said...

What the hell is the matter with people?

What says urine?

Do you Mammie go ZZZZZZ?

All this presumably means something to TomG but goes right over my head. Mind you, I'm not sure I have the energy to pursue it either. Enlighten us, pray, TomG, if there is some worthwhile point you want to make.

FrankM

katie8753 said...

Frank, it's because the mail never stops. It just keeps coming and coming and coming, there's never a let-up. It's relentless. Every day it piles up more and more and more! And you gotta get it out but the more you get it out the more it keeps coming in. And then the bar code reader breaks and it's Publisher's Clearing House day! And zip codes are meaningless....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpN00-UTrY0

katie8753 said...

You know I was thinking the other day about this trip to Cielo Drive. According to the girls, they were told to get dark clothing and "do what Tex tells you to do". They've said they thought it was just another "creepy crawl".

So when it turned ugly and dark, when did they decide it was okay to chase folks and stab them?

I mean seriously, they got out of the car, Tex shot Steven Parent to death, they headed to the house, they got in, they tied folks up, then all hell broke loose, and they started chasing people and stabbing them.

They also heard Tex say "you'll all going to die".

How does that work?

How do you go from thinking it's a "creepy crawl" to an all out massacre, and NOT ASK ANY QUESTIONS????

No one said "hey what's going on? Why are you killing these people?" Susan even says to Sharon "you're gonna die bitch and there's nothing you can do about it".

Bobby said...

Katie,

Does Diane go into the folks that fostered her after the trial ? I think it was a police officer and his wife ? Thank you. Bob

katie8753 said...

Well Bobby I'm trying to remember. The police officer & his wife took her in as a foster child. I think it was before the trial. And when the news came out that she was a member of the Manson Family, the family that took her in got a lot of grief from friends, neighbors and school folks.

I think she ended up leaving their family because she was hurting them with all that bad news. I'd have to re-read the end of that book to make sure though.

Bobby said...

Thanks Katie

katie8753 said...

You bet Bobby. I do remember that Dianne was taken in by this family after she spent time in a medical facility after her arrest in October of 1969, and she did express that it was the first time in years that she felt really loved by a real family. She felt loved by the Foster parents, and also by their children, who took her in and loved her. That must have been a real eye-opener for Dianne. She had never really experienced "real love" from anyone, including her own parents.

I feel really sorry for Dianne that she was just pretty much dumped by her real parents, because they were so irresponsible that they just took up that hippy life and didn't take care of their eldest daughter, and let her be exposed to all that Manson crap.

Brian G said...

In her book Miss Lake mentioned "a group" might have been involved in the Shea murder and more

katie8753 said...

Sorry Brian, I've been working all day. When I get a chance I'll look in her book and see what "group" she's talking about. I don't remember her talking about Shorty.

We know that Charlie, Tex, Bruce & Clem killed him. I'm guessing that's who she's talking about. But I'll check when I get a chance!

beauders said...

I haven't finished the book yet but I remember hearing that the Foster Parents, especially the mother blamed Lake for their daughter getting pregnant as a teenager. Did the Foster father commit suicide?

Brian G said...

I got the info from another review that bikers we're involved. I assume Mario's cryptic group is bikers? I admit I haven't read the book yet just your review and another blogs so could be bad info?

katie8753 said...

Brian, I skimmed thru Dianne's book again and I don't see anything about Shorty. Do you know what page that's on?

Beauders I didn't hear anything about any of that. That's horrible!

katie8753 said...

Beauders, if you see anything in the book about Shorty, let me know what page it's on. Thanks!

beauders said...

I don't recall anything much about other than Manson and he did not like each other from the beginning. I don't have any complaints about Lake's book, it a memoir not a history book and I enjoyed reading it.

katie8753 said...

Okay thanks Beauders. Brian do you know what page that's on about Shorty?

Mario George Nitrini 111 said...

Brian G

You are correct (cryptic group).
And it's NOT the "Straight Satans"

Mario George Nitrini 111
------
The OJ Simpson Case

grimtraveller said...

FrankM said...

I've pretty much stopped posting now

Mores the pity. Your insights even now are often head turners and mind refreshers.

TomG said...

What the hell is the matter with people?

Sin. We're warped from birth.

katie8753 said...

The Houston Astros WON the World Series!!!

Is the series played anywhere else in the world ?

Bobby said...

Does Diane go into the folks that fostered her after the trial ?

I presume you mean "go into detail." What she does say is that Frank Gardiner & his wife were the first people to make her feel safe enough to share what she knew so that must count for something.

SurelyYouJest11 said...

As to the rope, perhaps they had taken some with them to the murders? Just a wild guess

The rope is the one that tied the coin bag taken from the LaBiancas. It was possibly already on the bag and never came from Spahn. To this day no one has ever mentioned why they took the bag of coins. If you think about it, it was a really stupid move. One of the drivers that picked the trio up hitchhiking could have remembered them with it had it become known that it was missing.

grimtraveller said...

katie8753 said...

According to the girls, they were told to get dark clothing and "do what Tex tells you to do". They've said they thought it was just another "creepy crawl"....I mean seriously, they got out of the car, Tex shot Steven Parent to death, they headed to the house, they got in, they tied folks up, then all hell broke loose, and they also heard Tex say "you'll all going to die".
How does that work?
How do you go from thinking it's a "creepy crawl" to an all out massacre, and NOT ASK ANY QUESTIONS????


That's known as a question that contains its own reply.
The answer is really contained in the opening sentence of the quote.
A number of times in her book, Dianne talks of how Charlie wasn't questioned, his actions weren't questioned, his sermons and philosophy weren't questioned. She didn't even realize for years, and only then when reading parole transcripts, that she was not the only one of the females to suffer violently at Charlie's hands. They never used to discuss their actual feelings. Even when people saw Dianne being beaten, even when they heard Leslie being humiliated and told she was stupid, even when they were being pimped out to sweaty, smelly guys that they didn't even find sexually attractive, no one talked about it. None of the women discussed their feelings about having lesbian sex when they weren't lesbian. It becomes clear that they did not discuss feelings, they did not question Charlie openly or to each other and questions weren't tolerated.
In Dianne's book, there is one really eye opening part that jumps out for me. When she comes back from the desert with Bobby and Charlie says she has to go back to her parents, he says something to the effect that some heavy shit is coming down and he can't afford to have someone like her around that does her own thing and won't listen to orders. Simon Davis in his book "In a summer swelter" makes the point that the one thing Manson consistently speaks of through the decades is war and soldiers. Much of his talk takes a military bent, the people that he tends to respect, like Hitler, are those that have shown military might. When Dianne speaks of Charlie, even early on when he was impish and fun, what comes over is the sense that he did not want his orders unfulfilled, his words contradicted. Everyone that stayed had to learn that one way or the other. She goes into much detail in how the Family was moulded. She shows the effects of drugs, sex, love, violence and philosophy.
That's how you ultimately get from "get dark clothing and 'do what Tex tells you to do'" to murdering 5 people.

grimtraveller said...

katie8753 said...

She immediately disliked Mary, Sandy, Susan & Leslie. I found that interesting

I don't recall her saying she didn't like Mary. The other three weren't her fave rave, for sure.
One of the things that I really liked about the book was her viewpoints of the various Family members, especially the women. We learn more about them in terms of their characters than from any other source I've come across. That for me was one of the most fascinating parts. She brings certain characters like Cathy Gillies and Ella Jo Bailey alive in ways that none of the photos I've seen of them have ever achieved and she doesn't even say much about them.

Dianne was subjected to all kinds of pervs

Starting with her Grandad. When you read that he was later caught molesting his own brother's daughter, you kind of have to level some responsibility for Dianne's future attitude his way. I wonder if he ever accepted that he was perverted, whether by choice or things beyond his control.

grimtraveller said...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I have to wonder, what motivates a person to write such a book, after all these years?

Healing? Closure?


Not to mention, it takes a certain amount of courage to put a story like this out there. All the money in the world isn't going to soothe the reality that everyone you know and many that don't know you are going to see you as the person that was anally raped by Charlie Manson because it's those kind of things that stand out in peoples' memories.
She talks of her past as something that she spent so long deeply ashamed of and I get the impression that this was one way for her to put that shame to death and own her past. Also, let's not be naive; she has a story to tell and she must have some idea that there are a number of people that would like to hear it. In this day of youngsters being radicalized by hard line Islamist groups, far right groups etc, it's pretty pertinent.

Susanatkinsgonorhhea said...

Again i hate to sound repetitive but i just dont believe 90 percent of what she says, shes giving too many conflicting stories that have been told by numerous people and she was just a 14 year old baby who knew nothing

I suspect that she's counting on people being sensible about the fact that she was "just a 14 year old" and recognize that much of what happened to her is down to the fact that she was a young teen rather than putting her down for being that age.

FrankM said...

Ah, yes, the coins. Another little aspect of this case that confuses. Mr La Bianca had a coin collection (see for example https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/21744010673532617/), but the police reports seem to indicate that this was not stolen.

Bugliosi summation: "He [Officer Rodriguez] testified he found several items of value, such as several diamond rings, one of which was marked "14 karat," wristwatches, expensive camera equipment, many rifles and guns, a jar of coins, a coin collection, and other matters of value, personal property, all of which he said were inside the residence and easily accessible to anyone if their intent had been to steal".

Whether (a part of) the coin collection was stolen is of some importance; it has often been claimed Tex ‘was sent’ to the UK to sell it. And kill poor Joel in the Talgarth Hotel. But hey, it wasn’t. And he didn't.

So, what coins is Diane talking about? She writes:

When she got out of the shower she showed me a plastic bag of coins and dumped them on the table. We both counted about eight dollars without counting the Canadian nickels.
“Here, Snake, you can have these.”
Coins meant snacks, so I gladly grabbed the bag and returned the coins. I thought it was a nice little haul. I had no idea that aside from a brown purse, credit cards and chocolate milk, this was all that was taken from the home of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca, both victims of Charlie’s madness and a killing spree intended to set off Helter Skelter.


So, eight dollars, loose cash presumably. Maybe nor so dumb to take it, loose and unmarked cash is pretty much untraceable, as is a plastic bag. And it might have covered a ride home.

FrankM

FrankM said...

RE: just dont believe 90 percent of what she says [...] she was just a 14 year old baby who knew nothing

90%? Sure it's not 87%? Or 93%? Plucking a random figure out of the air is meaningless. And if you genuinely failed to believe nine tenths of the book you would have to eliminate dozens of names, places and facts that are known to be true. Get a grip on reality. And stats.

And as for her age, I don't know whether you have spent much time with adolescents in the 14-16 age group but IMHO she would have been a pretty streetwise baby I think, even if naive and uninformed.

Addressing my comments to the admin[s] here, I am inclined to echo Henry II of England who when frustrated by Thomas Becket exhorted his knights, Manson like, with the words Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest? I leave it to them to understand whom I am referring to.

And Grim, thanks for the kind words.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Frank said:

Addressing my comments to the admin[s] here, I am inclined to echo Henry II of England who when frustrated by Thomas Becket exhorted his knights, Manson like, with the words Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest? I leave it to them to understand whom I am referring to.



Hi Frank.

The meddlesome priest (of which you speak) was ejected at exactly 8:28pm on October 29, 2017.

The comment (from that individual) which Grim recently pulled forward (and replied to), was posted before that date/time of ejection.

I can assure you, going forward, there will be no further posts published from said individual.

Unfortunately, there are however, a few older posts still on the blog, which were posted (by said individual) before the official ejection.

If you'd like, I will gladly go back and erase all traces of said individual's participation here.

However...
I have found through experience, that it can prove beneficial to have a written record of a person's inappropriate behavior (saved on the blog), when such decisions (ejections) are finalized.

FrankM said...

Thanks for the explanation. No, I am not suggesting that posts be removed (for the reasons you give) but relieved that further posts will not appear under that ghastly handle. Sadly, these things have a habit of reappearing - what goes round, comes round. Fingers crossed it doesn't reoccur here.

FrankM

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Hi Frank,

As Katie stated earlier, your opinion is always highly respected and appreciated.

You've been a true scholar and gentleman on these blogs, since the very beginning.

Intelligence, class, decorum and compassion are rare qualities these days, but you sir, have them all in abundance.

You are truly "top shelf" in the blog world.

I use this phrase often, but it fits so perfectly, so I'll just say it again:
It's always a pleasure having you on the blog.

Very Sincerely,

LS

katie8753 said...

So Grim you're saying the rope that Leslie burned was tied to the coin bag?

katie8753 said...

Mr. P just let me know that Manson is in the hospital again. No idea what's wrong, except that he's been given a "bleak prognosis", which of course, could have been given a long time ago. I'm not going to make a new thread until he croaks or we get more info.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

It seems the story (which is now being shared by several small-scale news oulets) was first reported on TMZ.

I'm not sure how credible TMZ is considered, but here's a link:

http://m.tmz.com/#2017/11/15/charles-manson-hospitalized-near-death/

grimtraveller said...

katie8753 said...

So Grim you're saying the rope that Leslie burned was tied to the coin bag?

That would be my guess.

katie8753 said...

What kind of coin bag needs a "rope"? Was it like a 40 lb. burlap coin bag like you see in cartoons with a $ sign on it? I think when counted up, it only equaled $18 or so.

grimtraveller said...

katie8753 said...

What kind of coin bag needs a "rope"?

I don't know. There was never any mention of rope being taken or used or picked up from the LaBiancas. It's an assumption on my part, a poor one perhaps, but maybe if you're going to carry about $8 in loose change with some other coins, the bag you'd have would be shaped like on one of those little bags that would need long string or short rope to tie it, just to stop the coins from falling out.
Who knows where it came from or what it was for ? What's significant is that she burned it.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Grim. That was my initial question. Why would Leslie burn a rope that day? Just as you said, there was no rope used at the LaBianca murders. No rope mentioned ever at that particular crime scene.

So I'll ask again for the TLB audience. Why was Leslie burning a rope? Dianne describes her not only burning a rope, but actually trying to put the burning rope out when she was interrupted. So I think the rope was important to Dianne.

But why????

Marliese said...

The comment from the Calif Dept of Corrections as to state and federal privacy laws preventing the release of protected health information of inmates is ridiculous to me...he's been supported by the public for decades, and Rosemary and Leno LaBianca's bare naked autopsy photos are public and plastered all over the internet, along with crime scene and autopsy photos of all his victims...but the public can't know the medical condition of the likes of Charles Manson? I don't think they've released a precise timeline regarding when he was hospitalized, or his condition. Makes me wonder if he's even still alive...the last statement that he was still alive is days old. Will they wait till it's over and done with to release that news...probably not, still it's maddening in view of the lack of privacy for his victims in every aspect of their lives and brutal deaths.

katie8753 said...

I agree Marliese. The victims have had no privacy whatsoever. All kinds of stories have been made up in the media about the victims. I guess it's the way our justice system works. The killers have all the rights in the world, the victims have none.

beauders said...

According to the N.Y. Times Manson has died.

Dilligaf said...

Being reported everywhere. Now the circus begins. At least the weekend closes on a good note....

beauders said...

It is everywhere it must be true. Debra Tate was contacted and released the information to the press.

Mrstormsurge said...

FoxNews just reported that Manson has died.

beauders said...

I'm in Portland, Oregon and all our 11:00PM news is claiming Manson has died.

beauders said...

I just remembered my Manson doll "Firestarter" was supposed to burst into flames upon Manson's death, thankfully it did not happen,

beauders said...

Katie must be asleep, she'll have a surprise when she wakes up.

grimtraveller said...

katie8753 said...

The victims have had no privacy whatsoever

But that's not because of the justice system. That's been because of the media and, um, people like us.....
It's not really our business when it comes to someone's private health situation. And those death shots that are all over the internet, are they sanctioned by the families of the victims ? I doubt it. I remember back in '95 seeing them for the first time in "The Garbage People." I was shocked. I chucked the book after that. I thought it was in real bad taste. Online, there is no control once someone gets hold of something like that.
Anyway, Charles Manson's death made the BBC newspage as we all knew it would. It's there right next to "How refrigeration revolutionized global trade."

Dilligaf said...

And now, both are cold as ice. Too soon?

katie8753 said...

Thanks guys! I was asleep Beauders and shocked when I woke up and checked the blog. I made a new thread about Manson dying if anyone wants to comment there.

grimtraveller said...

Dilligaf said...

And now, both are cold as ice. Too soon?

It struck me as an interesting juxtaposition. More interesting than Robert Mugabe trying to hand over power to his wife while refusing to go as leader of Zimbabwe, as per the will of the people, his party and the army.