Every so often, I get that question:
"Lynyrd... in your opinion... do you think Charles Manson was railroaded?"
Heck... there's even a small book circulating with that title ("The Railroading of Charles Manson")... which by the way, I've never read.
Here's my opinion on the subject:
At the start of the trial, Manson had a chance to walk-away with a lesser sentence. In fact, there's an outside possibility, that Manson could have walked-away clean.
There wasn't a large amount of hard evidence against Manson.
Unfortunately, Manson couldn't swallow his pride, and ultimately, that self-pride led to his demise. Pride was Manson's Achilles' heel.
Here's the rub:
Bugliosi's prosecution completely hinged upon proving that Manson was in-charge of these kids.... and Manson (being a jackass) demonstrated his control over these kids (to the jury and the world), both inside the courtroom and out... for the entire duration of the trial.
In a nutshell, Manson made Bugliosi's case for him.
If Manson had shaved his face, got a decent haircut, put on a suit, and most importantly... kept his mouth shut, and acted like a complete nobody... a follower... Bugliosi would have had an uphill battle.
Problem is... Manson couldn't do that.
Manson had too much pride to "dethrone" himself (as the leader of these nitwits), and play by the court's rules. He was smug. And because of that, he played right into Bugliosi's hands.
The genius of Bugliosi, was predicting how Manson would play his cards (right from the beginning).
Bugliosi knew Charlie's personality, and with that knowledge, he fashioned an effective noose to string Manson up.
Bugliosi may have been an asshole (on a personal level), but he was a great lawyer. You can't take that away from him. Manson on the other hand, was quite simply... a jackass.
Manson was full of pride. He was smug. As I said... that was his Achilles' heel. And as a result... Manson earned himself NINE murder convictions, that he'll never outlive.
My opinion:
Charles Manson "railroaded" himself.
260 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 260 of 260Yeah, Jodi Arias got railroaded just like Charles Manson. They neither one got a fair trial.
After all, all Jodi did was stab a guy 30 times with a Michael Myers butcher knife, cut his head off and shoot him in the temple.
Well!!! He was being a brat! She was justified! HA HA.
Hey I heard on the news today that she has a boyfriend. He's sitting in the front row of her trial now.
Last year, she had a girlfriend. A fat dyke that was doing all her tweeting and social messaging. I guess the 3-hole wonder doesn't need her she-man anymore.
Hey, maybe the new boyfriend is Mr. P disguised as a man????
Krissy Deen said:
How many people are completely open and honest about their sex life anyway?[end quote]
Poirot replies:
Claiming to one chick he was a Morman virgin at the same time he was sodomizing Jodi?
That is a new one on me. I can't remember a whopper like that from anyone else but Travis Alexander. This was the type of mental games Travis played on people.
Jodi finds herself trapped in a Travis Alexander Catch 22. She's not Morman and Travis is so she converts to LDS but she can't be pure and allow him to sodomize her at the same time yet Travis demands both.(enter the insanity phase of Jodi's relationship with Travis)
As far as the cat she nearly killed. Well there ain't no dead cat. Jodi never killed animals as a child. This reminds me of Judge Wopner when a defendant sues and brings in witnesses who weren't there.
Either show me a dead cat or drop the dead cat routine. I was almost eaten by a Lion one time. It got within two feet of me. Luckily there was bullet proof glass and bars between me and the lion. Phew! That was a cloe one!
Mr. Poirot-
You are a regular poster on this blog, I consider myself to be more of a guest. So I will try and keep this as polite as possible. I have not responded to you or your posts directly because frankly you make no sense to me and I haven't wanted to be rude. I'm just curious, although it doesn't really matter to me at this point if you even watched this trial. You don't seem to see the big picture as far as I'm concerned when it comes to Jodi Arias. You degrade the victim for lying about his sex life- he tells those " whoppers" as you say- how dare him. You can't remember anyone else telling such a " whopper"? Seriously? How about the two stories Jodi Arias told about his murder before she even admitted to being there? Those weren't " whoppers of a lie to you?" She's still lying and she's been caught lying about her sex life as well- she told different stories about her prior amount of experience with anal sex to her professional psychologists/witnesses but that's OK with you I guess. That seems pretty hypocritical to me. You seem to take the words of a convicted murderer and proven liar as truth- and that seems pretty naïve to me.
Like it or not- Jodi was as much of a Mormom as Travis Alexander was ( but THAT'S his fault too, right? ) She is a grown woman with a mind of her own and she was sexually experienced so what's with your poor Jodi attitude? She get's a pass on the Mormon rules I guess where you are concerned. If you're so concerned about Mormon " sinning" there were two willing adults playing that game.
I neither have to show you a dead cat or drop my, as you call it " dead cat routine" I'll talk about anything I care to unless the moderators of this blog say differently. Got that? I never claimed there was a dead cat I claimed she abused animals in the past and that this is well known as the way many people who abuse and even murder other people often start out. The admittance of her abusing animals comes from her own mouth as well as from her own attorneys. Maybe you should them to drop it.
I find your blame the victim attitude to actually be slightly disturbing but more than anything I find it to be very boring and I have no desire to discuss this further with you. With that I will sign off and wish you a good day.
:)
Krissy I've already said they both had trouble with telling the truth. They both tell whoppers.
There was no dead cat. Period.
As far as blaming the victim. Yes I am blaming Travis for his own death. You reap what you sew. When you use people you're gonna eventually get your ass kicked. Their relationship was very abusive. One is dead and the other may end up executed. You should be able to look at both these people and see some very bad things they did
I think you are taking this too personally.
Krissy you're welcome to comment here anytime you want.
I agree with everything you're saying. Jodi admitted to mistreating a dog. Plus, like I said, she's a pathological liar. I don't believe anything she has said.
And BTW, during her first trials, her defense was that Travis attacked her physically and she had to defend herself, which is a crock of sh*t.
The defense changed their strategy this time. Now her defense is she's mentally ill.
Travis never abused Jodi...PERIOD.
Mr. P, what "whoppers" was Travis telling? And nobody said there was a dead cat.
Yes I am blaming Travis for his own death. You reap what you sew.
Mr. P it's obvious that you don't know anything about Travis Alexander.
And it's not "reap what you sew", it's "reap what you sow".
Are you insinuating that Travis was a haberdasher?
Mr. P, I get the feeling that you're a 50ish man living in his elderly mother's basement with a light bulb hanging from a chain to light the room.
Hi Mr. Poirot,
You believe that Jodi was a completely healthy, well-adjusted individual UNTIL she met Travis.
You believe that Travis "single-handedly" drove this completely well-adjusted girl insane, and hence, is responsible for his own death.
You're missing one key point here Poirot:
A well-adjusted person, doesn't stay in a dysfunctional dating situation.
Normal, healthy, well-adjusted people walk-away.
Well-adjusted people don't allow a bad dating situation to escalate to the point of murder!
Don't you get that???
Jodi wasn't locked-up in a POW camp in Vietnam.
They were just kids dating.
I completely agree with Krissy:
The fact that you believe that Travis "deserves" what he got, is nothing short of disturbing.
It really is.
Travis may have been a bit smug, selfish and ungentlemanly... but to say that he deserved to be stabbed, beheaded and shot, is just plain morbid.
Dilligaf said in so many words, that this situation must resemble something from your own past.
I have to agree with Dill.
Your opinion is so over-the-top extreme, that I can only conclude, that you (yourself) have some unresolved issues.
Only a monster like Adolph Hitler (or someone comparable), would "deserve" to die like Travis did.
C'mon Poirot...
You're talking like a maniac.
Lynyrd you are a guy which owns a nationally known blog dedicated to Charles Manson and you're calling me a maniac. Now think about that Lynyrd.
I live in the number one state in the United States for women killed in domestic violence: South Carolina. I have personally known three women who were murdered by a boy friend or husband. I grew up with one of the girls murdered. It's a bad thing to see Lynyrd. When I got the call that my childhood friend had been shot in the head by her estranged husband I was unable to even speak. I hung up without a word. I was short of breath.
Typically down my way it is a violent aggressive male who abuses and eventually kills the female. Two of the women killed were in relationships with drugs. The third woman killed was similar to the case we are discussing in that sodomy was involved in the relationship. He's out of prison now after only 5 years.
But in Travis Alexander's case the woman he drove off the cliff mentally with his bizarre religious hypocrisy and sexual humiliations was the one who did the killing. Typically it's the abused woman who gets murdered. Lots of women get murdered Lynyrd. More than you know. But in this case the opposite happened.
I believe in poetic justice. It's a real thing even though it wont stand up in a court of law. Liberals call it Karma.
In this murder and this murder specifically I believe the partner who did the bulk of the abusing was the one who got murdered. That is not the statistical norm.
Travis does not get my sympathy. He was a morally deficient man in my eyes whose sick religious hypocrisy and sexual deviancy drove his partner mad.
Whether physical or mental; abuse is abuse and when you deal in abuse; violence very likely will occur.
I don't know how anyone could figure Travis is more responsible for his own murder than the sociopath that stabbed, slashed, slit his throat and shot him in the head. They may have both lied, and he may have used her for sex, but these people were not teenagers having their first dating experiences. He was 30 years old, and she was almost 30...I think 28. She knew well how to manipulate men through sex, and if she felt used, well...she consented. And if their relationship, if it can even be called a relationship, was abusive, I think Jodi abused Travis more than Travis abused Jodi. He used her for sex, sex she was willing to give him. Within days of meeting him, she served it up on a platter, and when he took it and a few months later didn't want anything more from her, she let the games begin. After moving to be closer to him, she moved back to California...probably thinking he'll come and get me. Nope. She snooped, she stalked, and she slashed tires. Then she stole her grandparents gun
and rented a car and drove back to Az. She was nuts. And look at her behavior after her arrest and during the trial. She had the prosecutor so frustrated he was wringing his hands practically yelling at her. While she calmly told him I don't remember, and you're just scrambling my poor little brain the way you're hammering me...woe is me. But she was the center of attention...just what every sociopath loves, smiling and giving interviews. Remember how she confidently announced "no jury wil ever convict me" ?
I don't care how many lies travis may have told, we now have only the words of a murdering sociopath. And I think, just as when the Tate Labianca victims are blamed for their murders, it's very wrong to blame Travis for his own murder, more so than the whack job that viciously killed him and stuffed him a shower. Look at those crime scene and autopsy photos. Jodi Arias is responsible for that horror...all of it!
Krissy, I enjoy your posts too.
oh dear God.
When cameras came to the jail where jodi's been held for years, Sheriff Joe was asked what he thinks she feels about people seeing her cell, and what she does, even what she's fed... "I don't care what she thinks, I run this hotel, not Jodi Arias."
LOL!
MARLIESE!! Good to see you!! :)
I agree with EVERY word you said!!
Mr. P, Travis was not violent and never abused Jodi. Not physically anyway. So your analogy of murdered women don't apply here.
And I think it's just a "name game" now that we call men having sex with women they don't want to marry "abuse". That's just stupid.
Mr. Poirot,
Jodi was a willing participant from beginning to end.
In fact, it was Travis, who was trying to END this dysfunctional situation.
(Kudos to him, for that!)
Jodi is the one, who wanted this situation to CONTINUE!
How could Jodi be in danger, from a guy who is EXITING?
And quite frankly...
How badly could Jodi have been mistreated, if she was using EVERY ANGLE POSSIBLE, to get him to STAY??
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Imminent danger, is the only reason (I can think of) sufficient to justify murder.
Jodi was NOT in imminent danger.
The guy was LEAVING her.
He wanted OUT.
In fact...
That's precisely why she lost it... she wanted him to STAY WITH HER.
Poirot...
This was NOT a self-defense situation.
She was in no danger, and she wanted to continue dating him.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
For the record:
I don't condone murder (or abuse) perpetrated against men or women.
It's wrong, regardless of one's gender.
Your "two wrongs make a right" mindset (for justifying brutal murder) is disturbing.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Poetic justice"? LOL
It would have been "poetic justice", if Jodi had let this guy go, and went-on to live a very happy and successful life without him.
That's real "poetic justice".
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As an aside:
Anal sex (in and of itself) does NOT constitute mental or physical abuse.
There are many people (both men and women) who enjoy that type of sexual activity, as part of their normal sex life.
Sex is only abuse, when it is FORCED on someone.
As Marliese indicated, that was not the case here.
Jodi was a very promiscuous girl.
Her texts, emails and phone recordings demonstrated that.
She was a more than WILLING participant.
Lastly...
This blog is not "dedicated" to Charles Manson.
I just invested an entire week, explaining that Charles Manson got a fair trial... got exactly what he deserved... and is right where he belongs.
Mr. P, I'm glad you live 1000's of miles away from me. If I hooked up with you on a dating website, you might cut my head off if I wouldn't marry you. LOL.
There's a photo of Jodi on the interwebs with the guy she'd eventually cut. Crazy ass broad is grabbing his throat like she owns his ass and will strangle him if he annoys her. I tell you.
Leary said:
"THe hell with updates on Family members...what we need is some updates on fallen posters. Send out the bat signal, Lynyrd."
Maybe not such a bad idea...
I'll make a post in the coming weeks, asking the old regulars to emerge... just for shits and giggles.
We'll see what happens...
Maybe on Halloween. LOL
Remember Lurch?
Who can forget that guy?
He checked-in while walking around Spawn's Ranch with a flashlight... at midnight... on the August Anniversary?! LOL
Remember that young kid V717?
He was a misguided Manson Supporter, but I admired his tenacity.
The kid checked-in every day for over a year, and never had one person agree with him.
I give that kid an A+ for "heart" anyway.
I hope he's Okay.
Miss Spiritual Tramp?
Lynn?
Cease2!?
Stormsurge!?
Doc?
MARY!!
Wharf Rat?!
...
Just when I thought I was OUT...They drag me BACK IN!!!!
S.T.O.R.M.Y!!!! Great to see you!!!
Hi Katie! Thanks for the welcome. Have always agreed with your opinions on JA, and like reading all the great writing, just can't stay quiet sometimes when I read wtf stuff!
And I think Krissy is spot on...
Katie, so good to see you again too. BTW, anyone remember that Jodi wanted her life spared in part so that she could DONATE HER HAIR to create wigs for cancer patients?!?
Yeah I know Stormy. She goes on TV and says she wants the death penalty, then the asks that they spare her so she can donate hair. Another big fat lie.
Who'd want her nasty-ass hair anyway? She hasn't donated any hair that I know of. She's just selling her cheesy "traced artwork".
Crap Almighty, if we are gonna start slotting folk on the maniac spectrum I am screwed.
We're not playing the back nine at Pebble Beach or surfin in Bermuda. We're hangin out on a Manson blog a half century after TLB. Let's just accept that we're all maniacs with different degrees of passion and perversity.
But the one thing I did like about the Jodi discussion was the rising of the notion of "EXCESSIVE PROVOKENESS".
Mr P's argument seems to be that while Travis was a self-made cad and asshole, Jodi was not a self-made psycho killer. Like Leslie and Pat, someone turned her into one.
That's a hard sell in a civilized society Mr P. We tend to find the perpetrators of violence to be responsible for such.
But hey, maybe OJ was innocent under the defense of "EXCESSIVE PROVOKENESS". OJ was the King, that skanky white tramp was nothing without him. But then she rejected him, took his best friend Marcus Allen as a lover and bragged to everyone about Marcus's prowness. Then she sucked a guy off on her couch while the King was forced to stand in the bushes and watch. THen she invites her pretty boy toy over for a booty call right after their daughter's dress rehearsal. Henry VIIIth offed his wife's heads for far less.
I was walking out of the drug store today when I saw a headline on the National Enquirer..."OJ Confesses, 'I did it, So What?"
And if you don't think a fair per centage of our countrymen agree with OJ's perspective you are livin in LaLa Land.
Bitch deserved what she got, right Mr P?
Lee Harvey could have used the "EXCESSIVE PROVOKENESS" defense. Hell, that morning the wingnuts took out a full page ad in the Dallas paper with JFK's photo and the word TREASON in bold print about it. If Lee Harvey hadn't or didn't pull the trigger there were a hundred guys lined up to.
The great mystery of the 20th Century...Who Killed JFK - the short answer is that JFK did. He took the mafia's money and assistance to win the election then turned around and fucked em from behind. He backed Mongoose and then left the Cuban freedom fighters abandoned on the beach. He wanted to dismantle the CIA and pull out of Vietnam.
He provoked Lee Harvey, did he not Mr P?
Bring it home. Charlie has been basically saying that shit for 45 years. His kids just were doing what felt right, offing some pigs who were flaunting the good life with their swimming pools and fancy cars and servants and such while the Family ate out of garbage bins. Fuck Melcher. Fuck Candice Bergman looking down her nose at Charlie. Those superior bitches got what they deserved. Hell, we did them a favor.
45 years later and Charlie still believes that shit hook line and sinker.
Charlie should be free, right Mr P? If anyone was provoked it was Charlie.
Nobody made Jodi a psycho killer. Our society just will not and cannot accept that.
Just ask Leslie and Pat.
Leary, eloquently spoken. May I now dub you "Sir Leary". :)
Of course it's the victims' fault. If they hadn't been so damn successful, so damn happy, so damn beautiful, so damn charming and so damn full of life, those poor killers wouldn't have had to do the dirty deed.
Travis was popular at his meetings. He had lots of friends. Something Jodi didn't. He had money, something Jodi didn't. He had a future, something Jodi didn't. But they were all things Jodi wanted. And she knew how to get them.
How can we blame her for being mad? After all, aren't successful, happy, charming, good looking people supposed to fall for dogs like Jodi?
How can we blame the killers? They were just doing their job.
"A momentary loss of muscular coordination. Coulda' happened to anybody".
Hi Stormsurge!
You have a point Leary.
Most killers assert that their actions are justified, because according to them, they were unnecessarily "provoked".
It's the victim's fault.
The victim "deserved it".
Heck...
That was the Nazi's main propaganda theme.
The Jews "deserved" to be murdered, so it can't be wrong.
('Course, I don't want to get Poirot started on the Jews. We've already been down that road before...)
Hey Lynryd!!! Good to see you cats!
Lynyrdsaid
[quote] Most killers assert that their actions are justified, because according to them, they were unnecessarily "provoked".
It's the victim's fault.
The victim "deserved it".[end quote]
Poirot replies:
You are plagiarizing Dr Drew exactly so this is his opinion not yours.
Your strategy of calling me Nazi is race baiting. When your argument has no facts behind it then try race baiting. This is a common con job used by the communists. It is a cheap, dishonest and effeminate form of sophistry used by the immoral.
haven't read the whole thread but Jodi called Travis, left him a voice message, texted his cell phone and sent him an email ALL AFTER SHE HAD MURDERED HIM. This chick was going to serious lengths to pretend she had no idea he was dead and throw the scent off her in the ensuing investigation. In one of those contacts she says that she hopes he is not angry with her for not having visited him when even in her own amnesia lie/defense of the incident she acknowledges that she was there, just that she cannot recall the part where she killed him. This was an attempt to throw the focus off her from the police. Once she was caught her story changed to accommodate the facts she couldn't get around.
Jodi Arias premeditated this murder, she is a liar and she deserves the death penalty.
Poirot said:
"You are plagiarizing Dr Drew exactly so this is his opinion not yours.
Your strategy of calling me Nazi is race baiting. When your argument has no facts behind it then try race baiting. This is a common con job used by the communists. It is a cheap, dishonest and effeminate form of sophistry used by the immoral."
I never watch Dr. Drew.
In fact, I watch very little tv at all.
I'm not even sure, what channel "Dr. Drew" comes on.
I pay $21 a month for my cable service.
I get about 5 television stations.
I get the 3 major networks (NBC, ABC, CBS, and a couple "UHF"-style channels)... and I'm not even exaggerating.
Although...
I'll readily tell you, that I LOVE watching Dr. Phil at 5pm.
I did enjoy watching Doctor Drew years ago, when he was with Adam Corolla.
I was living at another residence in those days, and had a lot more channels to choose from.
I haven't seen Doctor Drew since then.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Having said ALL THAT:
If that's Doctor Drew's opinion... I have no problem (at all) agreeing with him.
I agree 100%.
It's a very accurate analogy, and the man is absolutely correct.
It's nice to know, that my mind works along the same lines as a Doctor.
Thanks for the compliment.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In reality though, it was our own "Leary" who made the mental connection for me... not Doctor Drew.
(To give credit, where credit is due)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
For the record:
I never called you a "Nazi" directly.
I said that most killers, share the same twisted philosophy as the Nazi's... (i.e., that their victims "deserved it").
It's not my fault, that you share the same philosophy (as most killers AND the Nazi's).
Yes...
It's a pretty ridiculous mindset... and it's not exactly a compliment... but if the shoe fits, wear it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The funny irony here, is that I've personally witnessed you bad-mouthing the Jews on several occasions.
So who knows...
Maybe you would have made a good Nazi.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You're the one, with no facts behind your opinion.
Your opinion is based solely on your own personal baggage and mental issues.
(Much like Hitler, I suppose).
And now...
You've stooped to straight-up name-calling... (a common refuge for those who are wrong).
I'm not "cheap", "dishonest", "effeminate" or "immoral".
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In the final analysis, it seems my mind works along the lines of a Doctor... and yours works along the lines of a killer.
I guess that's pretty accurate, since you're the one who is defending and justifying murder.
Poirot,
I was really hoping that you would back down from this ridiculous stance.
On two occasions, I offered you an exit... (a lifeline of sorts)... and you refused to take it.
You're painting yourself further and further into a corner.
You're defending and justifying heinous murder.
Only a person with considerable "issues" would agree with your assertion(s).
If you continue along these lines, you're going to be known as an online nutjob.
You're in a corner by yourself Bro.
No one sees your point.
Think about it...
I've done what I can.
Peace...
Mr stormsurge, I agree.
And yes, she thought she was clever leaving Travis messages and emails after she killed him. And then after his body was found, she even called the police investigator to say she was a good friend and offered help. When she started asking questions, he told her he couldn't say anything, and did tell her Travis' friends weren't saying nice things about her....that she had hacked into his facebook, voicemail, email etc. but she told him Travis gave her his passwords to "build trust" ..she's such a liar. His friends really disliked her, thought she was scary, obsessed and jealous.
Anyway, I agree, she premeditated first degree murder, and deserves the death penalty.
Mr. P, if you love the 3-hole wonder so much, you ought to change your avatar to her butthole pic. HA HA.
Provoke is always interesting.
The woman who wrote "Marina and Lee" was named Priscilla McMillian. Interesting cat. She was CIA, slept with JFK during his senator days, interviewed Lee when he defected to Russia, write the bio of Stalin's daughter and then befriended Marina right after the assassination.
She seriously concluded that Lee shot JFK because Marina had been belittling his lovemaking abilities for months, calling him 'half-man' and such, and she had been swooning over JFK saying how much he looked like one of her many ex-lovers. Priscilla seriously tried to sell that as the reason for JFK's death - a jealous rage by a sexually inadequate runt.
Crazy, yes, but Lee was on record as liking JFK and except for the Bay of Pigs fiasco there was little political reason for Lee shooting JFK - as opposed to his attempt on the right wing nut Walker.
We vex forever over what Charlie's motive was...wouldn't that just be a bitch if JFK was shot cause Lee had half a dick.
Leary, nevermind JFK, we almost lost Frank Zappa to a jealous rage...
December 1971 is still remembered as the bleakest month in Zappa history. Only six days prior to the Rainbow incident, a crazed fan fired a flare gun during the band’s performance at the Montreux Casino in Geneva, Switzerland. The venue’s heating system exploded, starting a fire that left several fans injured, the band’s equipment destroyed, and the venue itself burned to a crisp. The fire inspired Deep Purple‘s classic ‘Smoke on the Water,’ which was No. 32 on our list of the Top 100 Classic Rock Songs.
The ‘Rainbow Theatre Incident’ obviously couldn’t have come at a worse time. The attack took place during the band’s encore, as Zappa (nodding to his British surroundings) launched into a cover of the Beatles‘ ‘I Want to Hold Your Hand.’ That slightly sarcastic performance seemed to spark the rage of Howell, a 24-year-old manual worker: He raced to the stage, pushing Zappa into the venue’s concrete orchestra pit, much to the horror of the panicked band and audience.
“The band thought I was dead,” Zappa later recalled in his 1989 autobiography/memoir ‘The Real Frank Zappa Book.’ “My head was over on my shoulder, and my neck was bent like it was broken. I had a gash in my chin, a hole in the back of my head, a broken rib, and a fractured leg. One arm was paralyzed.”
As Howell attempted to flee, he was caught by enraged audience members, who passed him off to Zappa’s roadies (who may or may not have roughed him up a little). Meanwhile, rumors of Zappa’s allegedly fatal accident spread like wildfire throughout the crowd. Howell later admitted that he was jealous — his girlfriend had recently admitted her infatuation with Zappa, which triggered the sudden burst of rage.
The vicious attack forced the band to cancel the remaining dates of their tour, leaving Zappa wheelchair-bound for nearly a year. Though he would eventually recover from his injuries, he did suffer chronic back pain throughout his life — and many fans suspect Zappa’s crushed larynx was the ultimate reason for his switch to a deeper, huskier vocal delivery. His next two studio albums, 1972′s ‘Waka/Jawaka’ and ‘The Grand Wazoo,’ were full of richly layered jazz-fusion instrumentals.
Thank You Chris!!!
I was just watching an interesting program Saturday night.
I wanna say it was "48 hours".
(I'm not positive, but pretty sure)
Anyway...
This 15 year old kid was "chatting" with a 17 year old guy's girlfriend.
The 17 year old guy got so incensed, he decided to teach the young lad a "lesson".
He picked-up two of his Kronies.
The essentially kidnapped the 15 year old boy... and drove him out to an abandoned field.
The 3 douch-bags tied the kid up.
The boy was on his chest, and they tied the boys arms and legs behind him.
They also looped the rope around his neck (for good measure I guess).
The main douchebag ("Ferreira") told the kid:
"This'll teach you to mess with my girl".
Evidently, their intent was to just leave the kid tied-up for a couple hours, and scare the shit out of him.
They left the boy face down.
They took off, and rode around in their car drinking beer.
When they went back later (to untie the kid)... he was dead.
Obviously...
A person can only hold the weight of their arms and legs behind their body (crab style) for so long.
(And not very long, at that)
The kid got tired, and the kid's NECK was supporting all the weight.
Essentially...
They left the poor kid face down, with his arms and legs tethered to his neck.
40 years passed by, and the perps were never caught.
They even attended the kid's funeral!
In 2011, new evidence emerged... and they got the 3 douchebags.
One of the "followers" turned state's evidence (like Kasabian).
They went after "Ferreira" (the main murderer) first.
He was the jealous boyfriend, who rounded-up his kronie's.
Unfortunately, he was found NOT guilty.
For some reason, the jury just wasn't convinced... even though BOTH of his ex-wives testified that he was insanely jealous... AND his crime partner sang like a bird.
The kid's father (now elderly) was so distraught that Ferreira was found innocent, he died 3 days after the verdict.
They tried the second guy... and THIS TIME, the jury bought it.
He was found guilty.
Bottom line:
They only got 1 out of 3... and the main douchebag skated.
The kid's Mother filed some type of "wrongful death" civil suit against "Ferreira".
The show never mentioned the outcome of that.
It happened right in Tewksbury/Lowell Massachusetts.
What is "effeminate sophistry?" Seriously. If sophistry means 'appears logically true but is actually false,' what is "an effeminate form of sophistry used by the immoral??"
What does that mean? I had to look up sophistry! But effeminate sophistry?
So...like a woman, arguing something that appears true but is actually false?
What kind of remark is that?
It's true that they were both liars. Otoh, calling a woman "the ultimate slut" and a "three hole wonder" is not exactly a marriage proposal. He used her for sex, she allowed it, she encouraged it...and when he didn't come after her, and insulted her by inviting another
woman to Cancun, she premeditated a last afternoon of raunchy sex and then killed him so she'd be the last
he had...imagine what they screamed at one another when she was stabbing and he was fighting her...his hands were all cut up.
Anyway, how were Lynyrd's clearly presented, logically substantiated comments "effeminate sophistry of the immoral?"
Marliese it is effeminate in that is a way that women argue. They will confront a man in a surprise attack in church or in a restaurant; any public place, where they feel you are free to go-off screaming and crying and making lurid accusations thus forcing the man to sit there and let them pour tears and garner public attention and get their way by dubious means. Yet if the man tries to privately discuss the situation the woman will not acknowledge the issue exists or simply refuse to try and deal with the issue honestly. When falsehoods are presented as facts in that manner such as using race baiting to try to scare away any debate that is a tactic used by women and liberals. Anyone who uses race baiting is simply using a strategy that is devoid of all fact or truth thus it is an immoral debating technique. Just like you are doing now. You are pretending to be dumb. You are playing a game. So go ahead and act with surprise and aghast Marliese.
Well...
My first inclination was hey great, I'm glad someone explained, I didn't expect it would be you though. But then you had to go and descend into an irrational, sexist rant. Who and what you are, I guess.
I am not aghast, I'm not playing a game...anyone that reads my posts knows I don't like double standards, don't play games, don't pretend to be dumb, and don't drink the kool aid. Who is resorting to name calling here? I have never heard the word sophistry before. I looked it up, and still couldn't apply to your argument, especially attached to effeminate. So shoot me.
Iyour sexist rant is not rational. I believe that you think it is, but it's not, and that's the difference between you and me, and apparently between you and everyone else here. No one shares your belief that while they both "told whoppers," Travis abused Jodi and drove her mad...as in crazy, crazy enough to premeditate first degree murder.
You don't know what you're talking about.
Mr Poirot, I've just about had it with you. You've insulted Krissy and now Marliese. Bloggers who are important to me.
All Krissy did was give her opinion on the Arias fiasco and all Marliese did was ask what a phrase you used even meant. Neither of them deserved the disdainful comments and attacks on their character.
You can call Lynyrd & and you can call me names all day long and I don't care. It just rolls off our backs. If you want to keep defending Arias who cares. But don't insult our bloggers with insulting innuendos.
It's time for you to back off.
Poirot said:
"They will confront a man in a surprise attack in church or in a restaurant; any public place..."
"Yet if the man tries to privately discuss the situation..."
Poirot,
No one plotted an ambush against you.
No one dragged you out to a public restaurant, church... (or any public place for that matter) in order to intentionally shame you.
Blogging is inherently public.
It's a public forum.
There's ALWAYS a big audience online.
How are we supposed to privately discuss this situation with you, on a google blog?
We're ALL posting publicly... Me, You, Katie, Dilligaf... everyone.
If you somehow feel ashamed or embarrassed publicly, it's because of your own words and ideas.
I didn't tell you what to write (on here)... nor, did anyone else.
You opinions are your own... and you stated them on a public forum.
===================================
"... to try to scare away any debate that is a tactic used by women and liberals."
No one has tried to scare away a debate (with you).
We've been discussing this topic with you, for days now.
===================================
"When falsehoods are presented as facts in that manner such as using race baiting..."
Honestly Poirot, I'm not even sure what you're talking about.
=====================================
I said:
Most killers assert that their actions are justified, because according to them, they were unnecessarily "provoked".
It's the victim's fault.
The victim "deserved it".
That was the Nazi's main propaganda theme.
The Jews "deserved" to be murdered, so it can't be wrong.
You act as though I made some major earth-shattering remark, by comparing Nazi's to killers (and vice versa).
You even accused me of stealing the concept from a doctor.
It's not an earth-shattering observation, it's just common sense.
The Nazi's WERE killers.
The Nazi's are literally a "sub-group" of the larger group, known as killers.
It's like comparing Chinese people to Asians... or Negroes to Africans.
Chinese people ARE Asians.
All Chinese people are a sub-group of the larger group, known as Asians.
I was stating the obvious.
And OBVIOUSLY, a sub-group WILL share similarities with the larger group!
Evidently... in your mind... I was pulling some type of immoral, feminine, liberal, racist, "bait and switch" on you. LOL
As I said...
I was stating the obvious.
(Unless of course, you don't believe that the Nazi's were killers)
Excuse me, for making an obvious analogy.
"Race Baiting"?
Give me a break.
===================================
History 101:
The Nazi's launched a major propoganda campaign, to desensitize the German people.
They painted the Jewish race as an evil enemy... unworthy of life... a parasite... vermin.
By the end, many Nazi's believed that the Jewish race deserved to die.
In fact, most Nazi's felt they were doing the world a noble favor, by ridding the earth of Jews.
"The final solution". LOL
(How fucking twisted is that?)
And what's REALLY scary, is that the Nazi's REALLY believed, that they were doing the right thing!
Those maniacs REALLY believed, that the Jews deserved to die!
Unfortunately, the human mind can become very warped.
The concept of tearing down one's victim (in order justify their murder) is as old as the hills.
It's a VERY common mindset among killers... and YES, the Nazi's WERE killers.
Can it BE any more simple??
Jodi Arias is a scumbag liar.
When she met Travis, she was living with a guy in California and they shared a mortgage on a house. After she met Travis (before they had sex), she told that guy that it was over. They lost the house for non-payment. And BTW, this is the guy who lent her the gas cans.
She then moved to Mesa, AZ to be near Travis, without Travis' knowledge. She showed up at his door one day and told him she had moved there. He was aghast. He had no idea she would do something that abrupt.
Jodi Arias was the pursuer in this relationship. She's the one who kept it going. Shes the one who did anything sexually for Travis because she was trying to hook him.
If anyone was duped in this case, it was Travis. He didn't realize to what lengths she would take this obsession.
This murder is completely Jodi's fault. Travis didn't do ANYTHING to her. She was a willing participant in everything. And it's like Marliese said, they weren't teenagers experimenting. They were both experienced in sex. Adults.
Jodi Arias was the aggressor in this relationship. Have no doubt.
Jodi moved back to California in April of that year, but that was a ploy. She was hoping that Travis would miss her and ask her to marry him, but when that didn't happen, she started planning his murder.
She pretended there was a robbery at her grandparents' house and someone stole a gun. The same gun used to shoot Travis.
In June, she rented a car, dyed her hair black, filled up 3 gas cans and drove to Mesa. I think she was trying one last time to get Travis to take her to Mexico, but after hours of sex, he still said no. Then she knew she had to kill him.
She talked him into taking pics in the shower. She told the cops that he was reluctant, but she insisted. She waited until his back was to her in the shower, and she stabbed him in the back. I can't imagine the horror of being in the shower and having someone stab you. You can't even see, the water is in your eyes. He tried his best to get out of the shower but then she stabbed his chest and hands. He finally made it to the sink and spat out blood. She continued to stab him in the back. He dragged himself along the hallway to the door to try and get out of the house, and she caught him right before he got to the door, lifted his head and starting sawing, almost decapitating him. When he was finally dead, she dragged him back to the shower, and shot him in the head.
That's what happened.
Katie... I'm done.
I don't need your help.
The conversation is over.
Poirot,
I'll be direct with you, as not to be mistaken for a woman.
Travis Alexander did not deserve to be stabbed multiple times, beheaded and shot.
He may not have been the epitome of chivalry, but he was not Josef Mengele either.
His murder was brutal, gruesome, and maniacal.
It was completely over-the-top and unwarranted.
To say that he was "no less than 51% responsible for his own death", is simply ridiculous.
And quite frankly, I'm ashamed that anyone would actually post that statement on my blog... especially, someone who participates here regularly.
It's scary, and it's an embarrassment.
If my sister or daughter were dating you, I would be afraid for her safety.
People are not supposed to become enraged, to the point of murdering others.
You moral compass is askew.
You've demonstrated yourself to be anti-semitic in the past, and now you're working on sexist.
I realize, that sometimes bloggers make a statement in the passion of debate... and then, they continue to defend their stance (even though they know their argument is flawed) just to "save face".
It's a pride thing.
We've all been there, at least once.
I was hoping, that was the case here.
I was hoping, that you were continuing along this absurd path, just to "save face".
I was hoping you'd back off, and we'd all get a laugh out of it.
However...
You've had plenty of opportunities to backpedal... and you haven't.
It's painfully obvious, that you really believe this shit... which is scary.
I didn't want to believe it... but I've come to grips with the fact, that you're not arguing this point just to "save face", you're legitimately kinda weird.
You were booted from ColScott's blog and Matt's blog in the past.
I took you under my wing, because quite frankly, I felt kinda bad for you.
I'm cool like that.
But..
If you're freaky posts continue, I'll have to ask you to leave.
You're condoning and defending brutal murder on my blog.
This is not a murder from half a century ago, either.
This is current.
It's very disturbing.
I've received emails.
There are women on this blog, who are afraid of you.
I'm asking you politely:
Please drop your emotional baggage, and chill out.
There's no room for racism, anti-semitism, sexism, religious bashing, or people who openly condone brutal murder under my flag.
Everything that's posted on LSB3, is a reflection of me (albeit indirectly).
I won't have it.
Chill out.
Let the record show, that you were spoken to respectfully.
Hopefully, a word to the wise will be sufficient, and we can all resume having fun... Poirot included.
I'll be posting a new thread in the next 48 hours.
Hopefully, the conversation will become more palatable.
Lynyrd said:
"I'll be posting a new thread in the next 48 hours.
Hopefully, the conversation will become more palatable."
Ya think? Can they be civilized?
Nah....not in TLB Land.....
p.s. Can't wait for the new topic!
p.s., Jodi is the one who introduced Travis to KY Jelly. Okay I'm done.
Hi Kimchi!
Katie,
Chill out, or I'll introduce YOU to KY Jelly.
LOL
HA HA HA.
I made an error:
"you're freaky posts", should be "your freaky posts".
("Your" as in possessive)
Sorry.
My OCD kicked-in, and I couldn't just leave it. LOL
Katie, I can handle "fat dyke" but "she-man" ---really. By the way most she-men have transgendered and become men, not many masculine "dykes" anymore.
Katie, I can handle "fat dyke" but "she-man" ---really. By the way most she-men have transgendered and become men, not many masculine "dykes" anymore.
Wow that's good news! LOL.
Beauders I was just explaining that a fat girl that happens to be a (can I say lesbian??? Is that a formidable word???? Is that even acceptable anymore????? Is there a better term?????) used to be Jodi's "best friend", tweeted for her, Facebooked for her & sold her stupid "traced" art on E-bay for her until Jodi found a "man" and dumped her.
I'm assuming it's a "man". I'm not sure what you people call a "man" anymore.
I call someone a man who has a real package that works, hairy legs, a hairy chest, chin hair, ear hair and nose hair. Someone who spits a lot, sits with his legs askew and picks his nose. Someone with a deep voice that snores a lot. Someone that spends way too much money on motorsickles or video games.
Sorry if I insulted your world, but I have to tell you, I don't begin to understand your world....
Come on Beauders, you know I love ya! :)
Lesbian is acceptable to me.
By the way Katie I find you very funny and I actually think you're pretty cool.
BEAUDERS!! You know I love ya darlin'!!!
B.O.B.B.Y.!!!!! You've got a deal. If we're still single in 50 years, it's a date!!! I'll only be 110 years old. Maybe I'll be able to sit up and eat some Yankee Beans!! HA HA
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