Tuesday, October 9, 2012

"Manson - Born to Kill" - UK Documentary
A new blogger located the movie which Cease2 recently Reviewed.
 
Laura Writes: 
Hi,
I recently started reading your blog, but am not a member. I was reading an entry last week talking about a recent episode in the US called Twisted, and the UK counterpart Manson - Born to Kill.  I found a link to the episode and wanted to pass it along, for any interested parties.  Thanks for providing a great space for information sharing. 
 

Thanks Laura!  You ROCK!  Hope to see you on the blog soon!

26 comments:

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thanks Again Laura!

We had issued an All Points Bulletin on this movie... and came up with nothing.

Thanks for a great find!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Here's Cease2's Review from a previous thread...

Cease2 Writes:

Expectations are always low for these tabloid TV true-crimes. In terms of production values, this one fared well. Nicely shot interviews, good use of historical clips and photo montage, suspenseful music. I was under the impression that three episodes were going to be dedicated to the Manson saga, but alas no, just a single program. So what did we get?

Our cast of talking heads included:

Three LA cops - Burridge, who received the first call about Cielo. Mike McGann, detective assigned the Tate case. And Det Frank Salerno who busted them at the ranch (for the car ring thing).
Sandie Gibbons - LA City Reporter
Some cat called BUG
Dr Fort - Forensic Psychologist
Dr Schlesinger - Forensic Psychologist
Simon Wells, of "Coming Down Fast" fame
Babs Hoyt
Phil "Road Mangler" Kaufman
David Smith, of the Haight Medical Clinic

Overall, much of it was our cast of talking heads recounting TLB, and Manson's background, and HS according to the official story as outlined in Bug's book and Sadie's testimony etc. As you'd expect.

Half of Ms. Hoyt's interviews were conducted on a return visit to Spahn. "I can smell the same smell of those trees, almost like a long ago dream, instead of reality." Although much maligned in the TLB blogosphere as to her veracity, Babs rally does come across as genuine when she says the difference between her and most of the other girls is that she had empathy for the victims. ...But so does Pat now, I guess. No other Family peeps participate though, just Babs.

Det. McGann recalls Sadie as "the nicest person you'd ever want to meet." Wells outlines the killers' backgrounds briefly. Hairy Pat. Homecoming Leslie. You know. The Lotsapoppa and Hinman incidents get short shrift. Though Det Salerno reminds us that Hinman bailed Charlie out. Personally, I'd forgotten.

Phil Kaufman speaks of his first day on the yard, spotting this guy singing like Frankie Laine. Meeting up on the outside, it was "sex on demand" with the girls. Great! Introduced him to Melcher. "Charlie always kept pursuing professional recording" Then down the line, PK admits to Manson he can't free his mind to really do-his-own-thing like Charlie & the hippy dream demands. ...Later Phil is shocked at his pals becoming "heinous murderers".

The forensic psychologists agree that Charlie did not coerce his followers.. it was a two way street, satisfying the needs of both. David Smith, who visited Spahn to observe the relationship saw a more malevolent Manson. A self described God, deprogamming his acolytes. Dr Fort described Manson putting them all through a desensitisation and conditioning process. Overall, it's agreed that none of them were "born to kill", as the series title asks. Phew, that's a relief.

This started at 8pm, and although we saw no graphic victim pix, we got stills of the various bloody crime scenes, often in colour. And the Cielo handgun was produced from a filing cabinet in the DA's office archive. The craziest still is the one of the Tex mugshot, in profile. Looking totally freakin gaga. That always gets me. ...Oh, and there's a pic of an unshaven CM playing guitar I don't recall seeing.

It's a real pity that an extra episode wasn't added, with an in depth discussion. It's also a pity that any Manson sympathisers didn't participate, or an expert with a left-field opinion. But judging by the lack of commercials, they had enough trouble selling soap with this one (but so do all Channel Five shows).

I'm giving it 2 stars for content, and 3 stars for a pro job production-wise.

sunset77 said...

Thanx for the vid, I wanted to watch it, got it playing now.

I don't think it was posted yet when I looked for it last week.

MrPoirot said...

Despite what Barbara Hoyt claims; I believe she knew or found out, Sadie and Tex had committed murders as she watched the evening news from Johnny Swartz's trailer. I think Hoyt is and always will be filled with remorse and denial.

katie8753 said...

Hi Laura. Thanks!

Lynyrd, you wanna add Laura to the "Hall of Fame"?

Kimchi said...

Thank you Laura, been wanting to see it in the worst way...

katie8753 said...

Well that was very interesting, but the only info I heard that I hadn't before was the part where Hinman bailed Charlie out of jail. And Charlie reacted unfavorably???

Kimchi, Cease....do you know when this happened? I hadn't heard it before.

MrPoirot said...

I had never heard that Charlie had a guard in the haystack. It must have been agent 44.

Kimchi said...

Hi Katie, no I haven't....I'm not meaning to pick it apart but they also stated that crow was shot in May and per the interview with crow, he said it was August...

katie8753 said...

Yes Kimchi, I noticed that too. I thought Crowe was shot in June...

I'm trying to think of when Hinman would have bailed Charlie out. It had to be before July of 1969. And I can't imagine why he would do that...

Starship, do you know???

katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...

Another thing I noticed on that film was that it was said that Roman was utterly distraught in his press conference and took a lie detector test soon after and passed with flying colors.

But it wasn't mentioned that Roman made crude jokes and innuendos about other women during that test. This was only a few days after his wife and unborn son were ripped to pieces...

katie8753 said...

Sorry all, I had to delete my previous comment because it had a typo. LOL.

MrPoirot said...

Strange that Hoyt remembers the first time she met Sadie because Sadie "cut one"

katie8753 said...

Mr. P, I can't figure Barbara Hoyt out. On the one hand, she's terrified of the family that she lived with for a time, interacted with them on a daily basis, did all the dirty deeds with, and on the other hand, she's visiting where Spahn's Ranch used to be and smelling the trees.

She talks about how Charlie said he was God & the Devil, but yet she stayed there. Go figure.

She really needs to get off the fence.

sunset77 said...

I must say that I find the inaccurate and conflicting information around this case to be very frustrating at times.

I just looked, Wikipedia and 1 other website state that Manson shot "Lotsapoppa Crowe" on July 1, 1969. I seen the transcript of the interview where Crowe himself states he was shot on Aug. 1, 1969, "8 days before the Tate murders".

Crowe may have had incentive to lie, (he was a dope dealer, he may have been involved in kidnapping, etc. or he may have just been inaccurate.)

Gary Hinman was killed on July 27, his body was found Thursday July 31. August 1 was Friday. Somehow I doubt Manson and Watson were trying to rip off Crowe during this period.

Does anyone know what day Crowe was shot? Or was everyone in California on LSD that day and it happened in 1963 on a Tuesday when it was snowing?

katie8753 said...

Sunset, good ole baby-killin' Tex says it was July 1, 1969. Ed Sanders says in "The Family" that it started on June 30, 1969 and ended on July 1, 1969.

That's as close as I can get....

MrPoirot said...

katie8753 said...
Mr. P, I can't figure Barbara Hoyt out...............
..................
She really needs to get off the fence.(end quote)

Poirot replies:
I've noticed this about Hoyt too, but I've seen them all exhibit this trait. They will exhibit profound remorse with tears and then skip back into denial.
One of the strangest was the Stephanie Scrahm interview which is over at the StarCity podcast page. Stephanie went and graduated college magna cum loudy after her Charlie days yet she cuts dog hair for a living. She said she never thinks about what happens to her and believes it all happens for a reason. I wanted to reach into my computer screen and slap her in that interview. She is no more normal now than she was in 1969.
Gypsy too tries real hard to come off as recovered and normal but yet she was a crook for many years after Manson and most likely still is.

I think all of the former Family members are what they need to be when they need to be. They all exhibit dual personalities.

Perhaps still they all do as Nancy Pitman says: "we just reflect you back at yourself."

They all were and still are con artists.


Cease2 said...

katie8753 said...
Well that was very interesting, but the only info I heard that I hadn't before was the part where Hinman bailed Charlie out of jail. And Charlie reacted unfavorably???

Kimchi, Cease....do you know when this happened? I hadn't heard it before.


Hi Katie. No, I don't know when it was. Doesn't seem to make any sense date-wise, if it was the car theft bust.

Had a quick look in Bug's HS, but found nothing so far. Maybe Beauders could check her encyclopedia. ...Beauders?

Zarathustra said...

Thank you Laura, Lynyrd and anyone that makes this blog possible

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Zarathustra you ROCK!!!!

Always great to see you!

MrPoirot said...

Charlie averaged one arrest every four months during his reign of freedom from 67-69.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Cease! Thanks Mr. P!

Beauders....any thoughts?

I agree, these people had a cog missing to even being involved in this nonsense.

>>>Perhaps still they all do as Nancy Pitman says: "we just reflect you back at yourself.">>>

I still don't know what that even MEANS! LOL.

beauders said...

i have never heard that hinman bailed manson out of jail.

Kimchi said...

Thanks beauders...what is your date or thought of date for the crow shooting?

Coming straight from crow in that video where he was interviewed by KTLA, he said August 1st and I guess he testified to that too...

If it did happen 8/1 maybe that's why Charlie took off to big sur in such a hurry....

MrPoirot said...

Kimchi said...
Thanks beauders...what is your date or thought of date for the crow shooting?

Coming straight from crow in that video where he was interviewed by KTLA, he said August 1st and I guess he testified to that too...

If it did happen 8/1 maybe that's why Charlie took off to big sur in such a hurry(end quote)

Poirot replies:
After 43 years no one has ever come forward who says they heard Charlie play and sing at the Easilen Institute like Charlie claims to have done. He didn't even bring Stephanie inside the Institute.

Charlie should have never return to Spahns and the Family. Crowe never called the cops on him.