Wednesday, July 27, 2011

40 comments:

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thanks Matt!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Lynn and Lurch are attending Bugliosi's library appearance tonight.

I hope they have a good time, and bring something back for us! LOL

MrPoirot said...

Paul was the smartest of the Family. He substantuates the helter skelter theory. He admits to antisocial behavior and the Family's grandiosity. Helter Skelter was not Bug's creation though present day revisionists claim helter skelter was bunk.

Paul left the Family in March 69 due to Charlie's escalating violent preachings about killing pigs.

bobby said...

interesting: Pauls last sentences about them believing they were the rightous angel avengers killing the pigs. Sandy & Squeck continued to believe that for years & years. & perhaps still do.

Also about them fixating on a cause with obsesive compulsion. Do the ATWA er's fall into that behavior today ?

St. Circumstance said...

I have said many times- I think Paul was the major cause of the Helter Skelter legend...

Bugs ran with the ball he was handed...

Paul did as much as anyone to form that ball...

katie8753 said...

Matt thanks for the Watkins videos. Very interesting. I’ve never seen the whole thing before.

The cult behavior he’s describing is typical of all cults. The isolation and brainwashing or mind-control if you’d rather call it that, the constant talk of end of days, the “everybody’s out to get us” stuff. And in every cult, there is always a leader.

I don’t know how anyone can feel that Charles Manson wasn’t in charge of this group of people. It’s very obvious to me.

I truly believe that Tex, et al, were ordered to kill, and that they did so because they had been trained to do what was best for Charlie and the family. I think they really thought that’s why they were doing it.

Patricia said once in an interview, something along the lines of “we just had to get it done”. She is really the only family member I’ve ever found credible at all. And I really believe that she thought that. Just get it done, no matter how vile it is.

katie8753 said...

I’m wondering how Watkins knew this “Jenny” if he left the family before the murders, and she didn’t join until 5 months after the murders. He must have still been communicating with them even after he left.

katie8753 said...

I like the way he dismissed the “CIA plot against the panthers” theory. That’s really too “out there” to believe.

It is possible that Charlie or other family members met Jim Jones. Jones & Co. were in Ukiah in 1967 and since the family was associated with lots of subcultures in the area, it is possible that they encountered him at some point. However, I’m sure that Charlie would have told his family to stay away from him, knowing that Jim was probably able to get his family members away from him and into his Temple.

katie8753 said...

>>>Bobby said: interesting: Pauls last sentences about them believing they were the rightous angel avengers killing the pigs. Sandy & Squeck continued to believe that for years & years. & perhaps still do.>>>

I don't know if Squeaky still does, but Sandy probably still believes all that stuff.

I think Sandy was much more verbal in the years after the trials to perpetuate Charlie's beliefs, even though she probably didn't really understand it all.

mattprokes said...

katie-watkins went back to the family after the arrests.
in his book he makes it sound like he was taking over for manson(helping out with lawyers etc.) but i think he was keeping an eye on the family for law enforcement or vb.
after all why would he go back to a bunch of crazed killers knowing what he knew?i think when the family found out what he was up to(or saw the witness list for the prosecution)they tried to kill him by setting fire to a car he was sleeping in.i think thats the story.
its been a few years since i read his book,i bought a paperback copy of the book for a dollar fifty when it first came out in the seventies.now everytime i turn a page it starts to fall out!
if i'd known how much it would be worth now i'd have taken better care of it over the years.
for anyone whos curious it was reprinted on col. scotts blog a year or two ago.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Matt. I remember hearing that now that someone tried to kill him. Wow. He was brave to even go back.

That book was reprinted on the col's blog a year or two ago? I'll go have a look. Thanks!

katie8753 said...

I'm just curious. Did any of the family members ever tell him about the murders before Susan blabbed?? Or was he just assuming they did it.

mattprokes said...

maybe he was brave but i've always thought that there was something in it for him.
even if it was just the ego trip of being number one while manson was in prison.

mattprokes said...

or at least number one in his own mind.
i don't know how the family saw him but if was one of them i would'nt have trusted him.

katie8753 said...

Matt, I'm not sure what Paul's take on it was, but it was pretty evident that the family was still loyal to Charlie all during his trial.

I don't know much about Paul Watkins except snippets I've heard from others talking about him. I wonder how he went from "wanting to be number one" in the family, to counseling others not to join a cult.

katie8753 said...

Okay this just in....if anyone's interested.

Warren Jeffs, the polygamist cult leader who is on trial in San Angelo, Texas, has fired all his lawyers and requested that he be able to represent himself, and the judge considered it, warned him appropriately and then said yes.

This is so similar to the situation that Charlie went thru, so I’m going to keep a close eye on this one to see how it fares. I have a feeling that his right to defend himself is going to be revoked very shortly after they start opening arguments.

This is gonna get good!! HA HA.

mattprokes said...

how does the old saying go?
a man who represents himself has a fool for a client.
something like that.

katie8753 said...

That's exactly how the saying goes Matt.

I'm no lawyer, but in watching the Casey Anthony trial, I learned that there are certain questions you can ask and certain ways you can ask them, or it's objection time. Lots of case law to be knowledgeable of or you're basically screwed.

And any witnesses that are called by the defense can be cross-examined by the prosecution. Gotta be really careful!!

katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...

Wow! Slow night, huh?

Okay, I'm gonna do some shadow pictures. Guess what this is?

_______________________________

Okay, pick a card...any card....

_______________________________

You are getting sleepy....verrrryy sleeepppyyy....

_______________________________

Today's word verification is: Billy.

HA HA HA HA!

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

"a man who represents himself has a fool for a client".

AHahahaha

That's a good one!

I wish OJ had represented himself. LOL
Although, considering the prosecution team, and the composition of the jury... it may not have mattered. : )

beauders said...

paul watkins and brooks posten were allowed to not serve in vietnam because of their testimony.

beauders said...

also the interviewer was maureen reagan adopted daughter of ronald reagan and jane wyman--wyman reportedly was filmed by roman polanski having sex with howard hughes attorney at 10050 cielo drive. maureen like paul died young from cancer.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thanks Beauders!

MrPoirot said...

Gypsy basically corroborates Paul's story as do many others. Bug says in his opening statement at Charlie's trial that helter skelter was but one of many complicated motives in the TLB murders.

katie8753 said...

>>>Mr. P says: Gypsy basically corroborates Paul's story as do many others. Bug says in his opening statement at Charlie's trial that helter skelter was but one of many complicated motives in the TLB murders.>>

I concur!!! :)

katie8753 said...

>>>Beauders said: paul watkins and brooks posten were allowed to not serve in vietnam because of their testimony.>>>

I didn't know that. I've often wondered why a lot of those guys weren't in vietnam. Tex mentions that he hurt his knee, but what about Bobby, Clem, Danny, Bruce, etc?

katie8753 said...

Well today in the Warren Jeffs case, they compared him to Charles Manson.

He didn't make an opening statement, he just looked at the jury and threatened them that if they didn't embrace his "religion" they were all going to hell.

Hang onto your hats!! It's just gonna get better!! HA HA.

CarolMR said...

beauders, Maureen Reagan was not adopted; her brother Michael was. I have heard the story about the video that Polanski allegedly took of Jane Wyman and lawyer Greg Bautzer. Don't know if I believe it, though. Wouldn't all of these alleged videos have surfaced by now?

katie8753 said...

Hi Carol. I was thinking the same thing.

After all the alleged filming of "sex parties" that supposedly took place at Cielo Drive, wouldn't at least ONE of those surfaced by now, with all of the "detectives" we have constantly uncovering "never before revealed" facts on this case?

mattprokes said...

over at the evilliz blog rh is blaming the backporchtapes fiasco on bertice berry.
or as he calls her bertice(BLACK)berry.
the more this guy talks the more he sounds like hes got a few screws loose.
if it was bertice berry why would it say bpt violated tobann films copyright?
sounds to me like he did'nt expect the backlash he got and is trying to put the blame elsewhere.

on my yt channel i posted a tape of jello biafra on the oprah winfrey show from the 80s and got a copyright notice from harpo productions...that i can understand..don't see how it harms harpo productions but i understand.
i don't think bertice berry carries the same clout as ow and i don't think anyone at whatever her production company was would care after all these years(unless her company was harpo!)
rh should own up to it and just admit it was him.
yt would'nt say it was tobann if it was'nt.

katie8753 said...

Hi Matt. I really don't understand what RH is trying to say...it seems to keep changing.

I guess he didn't realize that he was getting free publicity for his book/movie (whatever it is he has for sale) with a short snippet of what could be anticipated if it was purchased.

That's too bad. Sometimes we all lose when someone doesn't think his/her actions through.

mattprokes said...

the plot thickens.
now this backporchjugend guy is posting clips from inside the manson gang.

hendricksons head is gonna explode!

katie8753 said...

At first RH claimed that Anders Behring Breivik had ties to Manson.

This is the silliest thing I've heard in a long time. I've been watching the news daily and nightly about this tragedy, and no one has mentioned Charles Manson.

And it is a tragedy!

I'm no fan of Manson, but I don't believe that he would be involved in something like this! Not for one minute!

This man slaughtered lots of innocent people, and he acted out of his own beliefs.

And for RH to even insinuate it has something to do with Manson is unbelievable!

mattprokes said...

check it out hes calling it suicide mission its in 4 parts the 1st three are clips from inside the manson gang and the forth clip is a screen that says 'boycott tobann international pictures'

looks like we've got us a war.

beauders said...

who knows maybe these films where bought back by polanski and his friends and destroyed. remember polanski and warren beatty bought all the copies of "the other side of madness" aka "the helter skelter murders" the first movie based on the tate murders and destroyed them. there were hundred's of copies destroyed. luckily one survived so we can see it today.

beauders said...

maybe polanski bought these films back from the police and just destroyed them. i really don't know, but the constant rumors about films make one wonder.

CarolMR said...

beauders, why did Polanski and Beatty destroy all copies of The Helter Skelter Murders? Was there something negative about the victims in this movie?

beauders said...

they destroyed them because it reenacted the murders, and that bothered polanski and beatty.

mattprokes said...

they should have destroyed it because its a horrible movie.